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Would you give money to a beggar?

Misery

Photo-Negative
V.I.P Member
:D
True that. The system is what it is. I am investor in Tesla. I drive his cars because they are truly that good. All I tell people is keep your opinion to yourself until you drive the car,...I have never, ever had anyone step out of a Tesla and go,...Meh,...I like my Toyota better. Most are like "That was totally wicked!!!" He is a visionary with a 50 year plan,...he's been that way since he was a little kid being bullied by his classmates. Yes, he's an Aspie that has a different outlook on life, says some sometimes inappropriate things, and has incredible "special interest" that drives him to work from morning to night, he lives in a tiny house, he doesn't take a salary, he doesn't want to be CEO (his board does),...his wealth is tied up in his companies not necessarily in his name. Don't deserve it,...his wealth appears disproportional to his work, even though he typically works 2X the hours most people do,...but by now, he knows through trial, error, and some degree of heartbreak how the system works. He didn't make the tax code,...our representatives in government did.;)


To be 100% fair though: He's also the exception, rather than the norm.

There are a LOT of incredibly exploitative, nasty, shady individuals out there among the super rich. I can think of... a few too many names. Unlike Elon, most of them couldnt give less of a fart about ANYTHING other than filling their own coffers. While doing next to nothing to actually be worth all that money they have.

I've never understood that absolute, all-consuming desire to have ALL THE MONEY that so many of these guys have. I dont get it.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of the Jigglypuff Army
V.I.P Member
I’d only give money to someone if I know exactly how they will spend it. I’m on a limited income myself and I try not to waste my money. I do give to the Salvation Army bell ringers around the holidays because I know the cause is legit if I can. I feel bad for those that have very little but I also know that I can’t just hand over my money to anyone that asks me either because I don’t know if it’s a scam or not. I’m actually afraid of people who walk around with a plastic container to collect money from people at red lights to the point I will lock my doors because I’m afraid that if I decline the person will try to open my door and pull me out of my car. I also don’t understand why people are so ashamed to go get help if they really need it as there are services that were created to help people in need.
 

Suzette

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I wanted to add this to my previous answer but ran out of time.

The way I see it, if someone is begging they are there for a reason. Even the guy looking to "get rich" by lying about his need is begging for a reason. That guy simply isn't morally capable to have a real job. He/she has a sort of mental illness in my opinion. They are not going to make 9-5 because there is something in their makeup that has made honesty and earnestness impossible for them. They are, in a very real way, handicapped.
I don't feel bad if I don't give them money but I don't think it is nessisary to be punitive them either.
 

jleeb05

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
:D
True that. The system is what it is. I am investor in Tesla. I drive his cars because they are truly that good. All I tell people is keep your opinion to yourself until you drive the car,...I have never, ever had anyone step out of a Tesla and go,...Meh,...I like my Toyota better. Most are like "That was totally wicked!!!" He is a visionary with a 50 year plan,...he's been that way since he was a little kid being bullied by his classmates. Yes, he's an Aspie that has a different outlook on life, says some sometimes inappropriate things, and has incredible "special interest" that drives him to work from morning to night, he lives in a tiny house, he doesn't take a salary, he doesn't want to be CEO (his board does),...his wealth is tied up in his companies not necessarily in his name. Don't deserve it,...his wealth appears disproportional to his work, even though he typically works 2X the hours most people do,...but by now, he knows through trial, error, and some degree of heartbreak how the system works. He didn't make the tax code,...our representatives in government did.;)

I was being tongue-in-cheek, you need to defend Elon Musk or yourself for driving a Tesla! They're really cool cars. A better choice of words would be that Elon Must doesn't "need" it rather than "deserve." And I can't talk, I hold Tesla shares and also drive a luxury vehicle.

That said, I was recently driving down that "Methadone Mile" I mentioned in my earlier post. You can guarantee that as soon as the light turns red some homeless individual is going to start approaching cars and asking for money. Usually, if you shake your head, they'll just move on to the next. When this happened recently I was thinking how annoying and frustrating it was to always have someone approaching my car when I drove through this section of town. And it's true, it is legitimately annoying. But then I realized that I'd much rather be the person sitting in his car, on his way to go shopping, and only momentarily inconvenienced than the person out in the street asking for money. I would imagine my discomfort was nothing compared to theirs. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

And yes, we do live in a time where there is greater income inequality than ever. I'm sure we could discuss the myriad reasons for it but as to not lose sight of your original point, I appreciate the fact that you were willing to be kind and generous to a stranger. Whether you do it again or not, whether his story was true or not, I don't think what you did was a mistake.
 

jleeb05

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I wanted to add this to my previous answer but ran out of time.

The way I see it, if someone is begging they are there for a reason. Even the guy looking to "get rich" by lying about his need is begging for a reason. That guy simply isn't moraly capable to have a real job. He/she has a sort of menal illness in my opinion. They are not going to make 9-5 because there is something in their makeup that has made honesty and earnestness impossible for them. They are, in a very real way, handicapped.
I don't feel bad if I don't give them money but I don't think it is nessisary to be punitive them either.

Exactly, I just think that if someone is capable of holding down a full-time job but is instead "choosing" to stand on a street corner asking for money then there is likely some mental health reason for it. It would just be completely irrational. I think we assume that begging for money is easier than holding a job, but I really don't think it is. Some of these people are on their feet all day, exposed to the elements, dealing with hostility from passersby and the stigma...just to get a few coins. I just can't imagine that mentally healthy individuals would choose that for themselves if they're able to work.

I may not give them money but I also try not to judge or assume that they are lazy, liars, or thieves.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of the Jigglypuff Army
V.I.P Member
Exactly, I just think that if someone is capable of holding down a full-time job but is instead "choosing" to stand on a street corner asking for money then there is likely some mental health reason for it. It would just be completely irrational. I think we assume that begging for money is easier than holding a job, but I really don't think it is. Some of these people are on their feet all day, exposed to the elements, dealing with hostility from passersby and the stigma...just to get a few coins. I just can't imagine that mentally healthy individuals would choose that for themselves if they're able to work.

I may not give them money but I also try not to judge or assume that they are lazy, liars, or thieves.
I’ve actually heard about one story in China where a news crew filmed this guy begging for money and when he got up and left where he was begging, the crew followed him walk far from where he was to a hidden location where he then got into a new Mercedes Benz and the news crew stopped the guy from leaving and demanded to know why he was begging for money when he clearly didn’t need to as he was able to afford such an expensive car.
 

jleeb05

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I’ve actually heard about one story in China where a news crew filmed this guy begging for money and when he got up and left where he was begging, the crew followed him walk far from where he was to a hidden location where he then got into a new Mercedes Benz and the news crew stopped the guy from leaving and demanded to know why he was begging for money when he clearly didn’t need to as he was able to afford such an expensive car.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, there are all these urban legends about this sort of thing that we've all heard about but never directly observed. I'm not saying that it has never happened. This is a big world, someone at some point, somewhere has probably begged for money only to get into a luxury car and drive away. I just imagine that if it has occurred, it's so exceedingly rare that it wouldn't make sense to assume that the other 99.99% are potentially rich people in disguise. ( Sounds like the plot of Squid Games)

And if the suggestion is that this person was so successful at begging that they he was able to buy a Mercedes...I highly doubt it. If this story did happen consider this: I don't know what the job market and unemployment insurance is like in China but I can at least imagine a scenario where a successful businessman loses his job and is unable to get another. He has no choice but to swallow his pride and beg for money to feed his family. He's unwilling to sell his car because he needs it for X number of reasons.

Of course this is all just hypothetical but my point is that in the unlikely event that something like this did occur, there are alternate scenarios than this person being a lazy guy getting rich off of begging.
 

Suzette

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I was at our local charity shop and a middle aged black woman came in. She was very well dressed and appeared wealthy. She rifeled through the racks, made a purchase with cash and drove off in a Cadillac. I watched her with a little resentment. She, who appeared to be sble to buy anything, was buying up the few goods worth purchasing at the charity shop. Stuff that might be of use to me, someone who actually needed the low priced goods.

But as I continued to shop I overheard someone voicing those same thoughts and the store owner heard her.
The car was donated to this woman so she could continue to do her work. She had started a service helping low income women get jobs away from the service sector. She trained them on business dress and helped them with a new wardrobe. She helped them write resumes, tought them basic office skills like typing and drove them to interviews she had procured.
I ended up admiring her and feeling ashamed of my petty resentment.

Things aren't always what they seem!
 

Yeshuasdaughter

You know, that one lady we met that one time.
V.I.P Member
There's more to life than just your next meal. But they also have to save for possibly a motel room for the night, a new pair of shoes, a new backpack, a new thermos that doesn't taste like mildew, socks, a bus pass, etc. You have to go from person to person when you panhandle to maximize profits. It may sound like a greedy scam to someone that's never lived that life, but life is expensive to the homeless too. Even more so.
 

Mary Terry

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Donate your time and money to a homeless shelter or a food bank. There are hordes of people in the USA who definitely need help, regardless of their mental state or addictions. Their minor children need even more help than the adults. I do sometimes give a dollar or spare change to those people and always tell them where to find the local charities who can help them on a daily basis.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
No problem with giving to beggars; most of them are crazy too. But I also don't have lots of money. The moment someone starts with "but you got any more?" then I rescind all offers.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I was at our local charity shop and a middle aged black woman came in. She was very well dressed and appeared wealthy. She rifeled through the racks, made a purchase with cash and drove off in a Cadillac. I watched her with a little resentment. She, who appeared to be sble to buy anything, was buying up the few goods worth purchasing at the charity shop. Stuff that might be of use to me, someone who actually needed the low priced goods.

But as I continued to shop I overheard someone voicing those same thoughts and the store owner heard her.
The car was donated to this woman so she could continue to do her work. She had started a service helping low income women get jobs away from the service sector. She trained them on business dress and helped them with a new wardrobe. She helped them write resumes, tought them basic office skills like typing and drove them to interviews she had procured.
I ended up admiring her and feeling ashamed of my petty resentment.

Things aren't always what they seem!

I wear a nice shirt and tie all the time and try to look fairly put-together. Right now I'm wearing a wool suit in pinstriped brown, decent quality shirt, silk tie, and a camel's-hair overcoat.
All this came from the thrift store, except for my boots, & I've walked through the bottoms of those.

Charity shops benefit all of us, as they cut down on fast-fashion and consumerism. I agree with you that the lady sounds like she's pretty cool!

Poverty is not cheap. I am approved to pay $725/mo. for a 12x15 apartment that's gone to shite with old age and decay, but couldn't get a mortgage to buy a $16,000 house at $550/mo. for the mortgage. This is the reason I refuse to be associated with the Capitalists, and why I am a staunch Distributist. I do not intend to be gnawed by this system in the hopes that I can eventually do the gnawing. Being poor ain't cheap.
 

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I wear a nice shirt and tie all the time and try to look fairly put-together. Right now I'm wearing a wool suit in pinstriped brown, decent quality shirt, silk tie, and a camel's-hair overcoat.
All this came from the thrift store, except for my boots, & I've walked through the bottoms of those.

Charity shops benefit all of us, as they cut down on fast-fashion and consumerism. I agree with you that the lady sounds like she's pretty cool!

Poverty is not cheap. I am approved to pay $725/mo. for a 12x15 apartment that's gone to shite with old age and decay, but couldn't get a mortgage to buy a $16,000 house at $550/mo. for the mortgage. This is the reason I refuse to be associated with the Capitalists, and why I am a staunch Distributist. I do not intend to be gnawed by this system in the hopes that I can eventually do the gnawing. Being poor ain't cheap.

Is it possible for you to save up for the $16,000 on your own while paying the $725/mo. at the same time? Then, you'd only owe the taxes and no mortgage. While $16,000 is a lot of money, it's not out of range for saving more in the longer run. Most places run for much more than that. I'm sure this place is probably as shoddy or shoddier than where you are now, but it must be "livable" enough to be sold to you at least. And that's a helpful improvement for you.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Is it possible for you to save up for the $16,000 on your own while paying the $725/mo. at the same time? Then, you'd only owe the taxes and no mortgage. While $16,000 is a lot of money, it's not out of range for saving more in the longer run. Most places run for much more than that. I'm sure this place is probably as shoddy or shoddier than where you are now, but it must be "livable" enough to be sold to you at least. And that's a helpful improvement for you.

No. I have to keep food on the table & the lights on.

The place was a decaying dump built in the late 1700s. I have no problem with the age of the place but the damage to it would be a lifetime commitment to repair. The point of why I brought this up isn't 'should I move into a dilapidated wreck of a house' but 'when slum rent for a 12x15 studio costs more than a mortgage, something is bad wrong.'
 

RobZombiefan

Active Member
So today I was out doing some errands. I was in the parking lot of one of those "big box" home improvement stores. I was loading my trunk when I hear behind me,..."Excuse me, sir." The first time didn't quite register and he said,..."Excuse me, sir." again. I turned around and there is this disheveled-looking, elderly man in a motorized wheel chair. "Excuse me, my van ran out of gas and I don't have money to fill it up and get home. Could you spare some money for me?" Keep in mind, the only thing that really flashed in my head was that I was standing next to my fancy new Tesla Model 3,...and here this other person was begging for a few bucks. Without any hesitation or a word, I pulled out the remaining $1 bills in my wallet,...wasn't much,...about $7,...but that's all I had. I handed it to him, he left, and I went about my business. As I am putting away my shopping cart, I notice him doing the same thing to another group of people in the parking lot. It was at that point that I realized what was going on.

1. I realized I had just been scammed out of $7 without a bit of thought or hesitation.
2. I realized that I am more of a giving person than I thought.
3. He clearly looked the part of a homeless person,...van short of gasoline or not,...he looked like he could use a helping hand.
4. A part of me was ashamed of myself for falling for a beggar's scam, and another felt good to give.

What would you do?

I learned at an early age. If I, have it I should give it. I gave a homeless vet some money. I don't see too many since covid. But when. I do. I always give. I don't want to have that karma one day that could be me begging one day, so I'm polite and present them. The money the last time I was leaving the supermarket this family you could see they had nothing I gave them cash during lockdown I got sick off them thankfully it was not covid again!
 

Aspychata

Serenity waves, beachy vibes
V.I.P Member
Okay l give where it is clearly needed. A reservation, we left our bikes, and bags of canned food in the only shopping parking lot. I rescue a couple of animals left behind when staff moved off the reservation. And l did my best to help a cleaning lady by helping with offices and banks. And l am happy to say her son went off to college.

In LA l gave to the homeless woman who have it very rough. I remember one lady was so delighted l gave her food. Another lady was mad at me. So it's hit or miss. But yes, there are a lot of people who have mental issues and can suddenly go off on you. Hollywood area has quite a few stories of this happening. LA has sorta pushed the homeless around. Things were a tab better for them during Covid but l am sure that has changed.

What someone chooses to do with the money is their business. In Portland, a homeless person will be beaten up in less then 24 hours. In LA, woman talked of being in their tent and hearing a knife slash their tent wall which signaled they were about to be raped. Please don't judge. If you can help, then try. I volunteered at a counseling line and there were the people who needed help and there were the types just looking for a easy way out. But we tried to help everybody.

The children and family Jewish Center does an excellent job assisting veterans, families, and elderly. So please consider volunteering or donating money. They have excellent programs in place.
 
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paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
No. I have to keep food on the table & the lights on.

The place was a decaying dump built in the late 1700s. I have no problem with the age of the place but the damage to it would be a lifetime commitment to repair. The point of why I brought this up isn't 'should I move into a dilapidated wreck of a house' but 'when slum rent for a 12x15 studio costs more than a mortgage, something is bad wrong.'

I think this dynamic happens a lot. Being eligible for a mortgage and being able to pay it off are very challenging. Charging more for rent helps the landlord with profit and also potentially maintaining the property.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I think this dynamic happens a lot. Being eligible for a mortgage and being able to pay it off are very challenging. Charging more for rent helps the landlord with profit and also potentially maintaining the property.

Charging more for rent keeps more people from owning property, and keeps them dependent on the renting system.
You think that property was "maintained?" Hilarious. Funniest thing I've heard all day. The heater was broken all last winter, the bathroom wall was dissolving due to a persistently leaky roof, the bathtub didn't hold water, I had to fight a battle with black mold, and the roof leaked like a sieve on a windy day.

Charge for maintenance, but we better see services rendered--and to hell with profiteering.
 

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Charging more for rent keeps more people from owning property, and keeps them dependent on the renting system.
You think that property was "maintained?" Hilarious. Funniest thing I've heard all day. The heater was broken all last winter, the bathroom wall was dissolving due to a persistently leaky roof, the bathtub didn't hold water, I had to fight a battle with black mold, and the roof leaked like a sieve on a windy day.

Charge for maintenance, but we better see services rendered--and to hell with profiteering.

That's why I said "potentially".

You may have some rights, but it is some work to look it up and deal with all that..
Look up Licenses and Inspections or whatever department it might be called in your municipality/town. If you're dealing with mold, there's a good chance you can fight that if your landlord isn't attempting to take care of that asap.

I'm sorry for your situation. Only other thing you can do or move or move and be willing to live with roommates.
 

Nick12

Active Member
Sure I give money and food and water to a beggar just yesterday me and the best best mom ever
was just driving around I saw a begger so I gived him a bottle of water I think I made his day YAY me
 

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