Why is it hard to get people’s attention?

[Greatshield17]

I know someone said that people in general, simply aren’t interested in talking about Autism; but I’ve been trying to reach out to people and I’m having a real hard time getting anyone to dialogue with me. Does anyone know anyway to provoke a response? I know @Gerontius said telling a story helps, and I’m hoping and praying that my An Appeal to Heaven comic series provokes thought and a reaction; what else sparks-up thought and dialogue?​

Are people, if they’re deliberately ignoring us; just hoping that we’ll literally fade away? What’s going through their minds when they ignore us, if they’re deliberately making the choice to?

 

[hatfullofrain]

What are you trying already? Just so we don't make suggestions that you've already tried.

 

[Greatshield17]

Oops! Forgot to mention that! Right now I try just to make friendly comments or ask simple, conversational or dialogue-provoking questions; sometimes I add more information, (I’ve mainly done this with the anti-vaxxers) but I try to avoid being hostile because I’m certain that will result in people ignoring me and, not being open to thinking about this stuff.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Maybe they're not ignoring you. Maybe they're quiet because it's food for thought.

 

[Suzette]

Oops! Forgot to mention that! Right now I try just to make friendly comments or ask simple, conversational or dialogue-provoking questions; sometimes I add more information, (I’ve mainly done this with the anti-vaxxers) but I try to avoid being hostile because I’m certain that will result in people ignoring me and, not being open to thinking about this stuff.

"I try to avoid being hostile..." makes me wonder what, exactly, you are hoping to achieve?

It sounds very much that you are aware your ideas elicit a negative response. So try starting with being interested in their point of view, even if you think you won't agree. Look for common ground and capitalize on that. Allow that common ground to be a segway into asking pointed questions or making statements.

Consider too that for the vast majority, autisim is not the formost subject on their minds. Most folk don't think of it at all. I know, prior to discovering I might be on the spectrum, I never though of it. I knew nothing and had no opinion. It can be hard to have a conversation if the other person has no basis or context for that conversation.

 

[Matthias]

I’ve been trying to reach out to like, Autism Moms and even anti-vaxxers, and I’m having a real hard time getting anyone to dialogue with me.

That's probably the hardest group to reach. They saw with their own eyes their children who were perfectly normal during the first 1 or 2 years of their life sometimes suddenly regress into autism. Happy kids who loved interacting with their parents started avoided them, having meltdowns, and preferring to be alone. I don't think anyone can convince them that is normal or desirable.​

Are people, if they’re deliberately ignoring us; just hoping that we’ll literally fade away? What’s going through their minds when they ignore us, if they’re deliberately making the choice to?

Parents with autistic children want to get their child back. They want their children to experience the happiness and joy for life they previously felt. You're not going to convince them they should give up on their children and accept them living in a world of their own.

They know adults with autism tell themselves it's great to avoid feeling miserable. They know the extremely high rate of depression and suicide in people with autism reveals how most people with autism really feel about it.

 

[Thinx]

[QUOTE="Matthias, post: 816646, member:

Parents with autistic children want to get their child back. They want their children to experience the happiness and joy for life they previously felt. You're not going to convince them they should give up on their children and accept them living in a world of their own.

They know adults with autism tell themselves it's great to avoid feeling miserable. They know the extremely high rate of depression and suicide in people with autism reveals how most people with autism really feel about it.[/QUOTE]

This is perhaps your personal view of the subject but you are making generalised statements here about what you think others are doing which you give no support for at all.

Higher rates of suicide of people in a minority group are likely to reflect the lack of understanding and lack of acceptance they experience, and may also likely be evidence that their support needs are not being properly met. Parents wont improve children's outcomes by ignoring or trying to turn back the clock and deny their autism. They are likely to make things worse by this behaviour, whatever their motives or feelings.

Your last paragraph where you state that parents of autistic children 'know' that autistic adults views are mistaken is outrageous! Your description of the issues is simplistic, and undermining to the autonomy of all parties.

 

[Greatshield17]

Parents with autistic children want to get their child back. They want their children to experience the happiness and joy for life they previously felt. You're not going to convince them they should give up on their children and accept them living in a world of their own.

They know adults with autism tell themselves it's great to avoid feeling miserable. They know the extremely high rate of depression and suicide in people with autism reveals how most people with autism really feel about it. QUOTE]

This is perhaps your personal view of the subject but you are making generalised statements here about what you think others are doing which you give no support for at all.

Higher rates of suicide of people in a minority group are likely to reflect the lack of understanding and lack of acceptance they experience, and may also likely be evidence that their support needs are not being properly met. Parents wont improve children's outcomes by ignoring or trying to turn back the clock and deny their autism. They are likely to make things worse by this behaviour, whatever their motives or feelings.

Your last paragraph where you state that parents of autistic children 'know' that autistic adults views are mistaken is outrageous! Your description of the issues is simplistic, and undermining to the autonomy of all parties.

Yeah, almost everyone on here knows that I went through phase where I tried to downplay being Autistic and make myself out to be just, “a weird guy;” and how that led to a lot psychological damage, and sort of literally retarded my growth as a person. It was only after I embraced myself as Autistic that I was able to grow and flourish and fully exercise the talents I have, and even take advantage of the negative aspects of being Autistic.

Hey do you mind if I screencap this post with your quote in it? I’ll blot your username if you like.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

View attachment 72926​

I know someone said that people in general, simply aren’t interested in talking about Autism; but I’ve been trying to reach out to like, Autism Moms and even anti-vaxxers, and I’m having a real hard time getting anyone to dialogue with me. Does anyone know anyway to provoke a response? I know @Gerontius said telling a story helps, and I’m hoping and praying that my An Appeal to Heaven comic series provokes thought and a reaction; what else sparks-up thought and dialogue?​

Are people, if they’re deliberately ignoring us; just hoping that we’ll literally fade away? What’s going through their minds when they ignore us, if they’re deliberately making the choice to?

Unless you have a particular neurological condition yourself,...or a loved one of someone who has it,...good luck. You can say the same thing with schizophrenia, Down's syndrome,...whatever,...mental health is something very few wish to talk about or can relate to. I am to the point where I think people, in general, are so uncomfortable talking about it, that, as you say,...it purposefully gets ignored. Whenever I have mentioned autism outside this group,...co-workers, family, students,...either I get the "well-meaning", but minimizing comments, the blank stare and no response, or the "OK" and quickly move onto the next topic "because I have no frame of reference and wish to run away from this conversation".

 

[Greatshield17]

Unless you have a particular neurological condition yourself,...or a loved one of someone who has it,...good luck. You can say the same thing with schizophrenia, Down's syndrome,...whatever,...mental health is something very few wish to talk about or can relate to. I am to the point where I think people, in general, are so uncomfortable talking about it, that, as you say,...it purposefully gets ignored. Whenever I have mentioned autism outside this group,...co-workers, family, students,...either I get the "well-meaning", but minimizing comments, the blank stare and no response, or the "OK" and quickly move onto the next topic "because I have no frame of reference and wish to run away from this conversation".

Even parents and caregivers?

 

[Gerontius]

Hi @Greatshield17--

I've never found it difficult to get peoples' attention, but public nudity isn't exactly legal, so I fly under the radar.


YES, even parents & caregivers are hard to get to understand the whole autism thing.

Your ideas get negative responses because the idea of this stuff does not sit well with the mainstream crowd of moms who love the dopamine "hit" of being that brave martyr mother with the "special" child, and the batches of eco-warrior mothers who refuse to admit that medicine is good for sick people.

It's a losing battle but if you can speak to a few people it may be worth it.

 

[Greatshield17]

Do you, or anyone else know of what kind of people would listen?

 

[Matthias]

Do you, or anyone else know of what kind of people would listen?

Think about what type of message you'd like to convey and who would have a good reason to listen to it. Generally, the only people I can think of who'd have a reason to listen are people who are affected in some way by autism such as people who know a family member with autism or people who work with autistic people such as social workers, counselors, priests, or teachers. If you're raising money for a charity, people with extra money to spare who like to help other people might be willing to listen.

Here's a question to think about: If someone came to you to discuss how great it is to have Down Syndrome or why they think their paranoid schizophrenia, narcissism, sociopathy, or psychopathy is a normal part of human neurodiversity that society should embrace, would you be interested in listening?

I think your answer would be influenced by:
1. whether any of those conditions are relevant to you (such as knowing or working with someone with those conditions)
2. whether you hold any views that contradict what the other person is promoting

 

[Matthias]

This is perhaps your personal view of the subject but you are making generalised statements here about what you think others are doing which you give no support for at all.

Higher rates of suicide of people in a minority group are likely to reflect the lack of understanding and lack of acceptance they experience, and may also likely be evidence that their support needs are not being properly met. Parents wont improve children's outcomes by ignoring or trying to turn back the clock and deny their autism. They are likely to make things worse by this behaviour, whatever their motives or feelings.

Your last paragraph where you state that parents of autistic children 'know' that autistic adults views are mistaken is outrageous! Your description of the issues is simplistic, and undermining to the autonomy of all parties.

Perhaps I should have worded it better. Most parents of autistic children I've heard want a cure that results in their children becoming "indistinguishable from their peers" so they can have a happy life being normal. I think, but have no way of knowing for sure, that most, but not all, autistic people feel the same way. I think many people with disabilities choose to think about it positively to feel better about themselves but would probably like to get rid of their impairments. If doctors created a pill that could instantly cure autism (meaning it removed all autistic traits/symptoms) without any side effects, I think most people with autism would take it. Of course, I could be wrong since I'm just sharing my opinion. Is that better?

 

[Greatshield17]

Perhaps I should have worded it better. Most parents of autistic children I've heard want a cure that results in their children becoming "indistinguishable from their peers" so they can have a happy life being normal. I think, but have no way of knowing for sure, that most, but not all, autistic people feel the same way. I think many people with disabilities choose to think about it positively to feel better about themselves but would probably like to get rid of their impairments. If doctors created a pill that could instantly cure autism (meaning it removed all autistic traits/symptoms) without any side effects, I think most people with autism would take it. Of course, I could be wrong since I'm just sharing my opinion. Is that better?

Have you seen my post?

Yeah, almost everyone on here knows that I went through phase where I tried to downplay being Autistic and make myself out to be just, “a weird guy;” and how that led to a lot psychological damage, and sort of literally retarded my growth as a person. It was only after I embraced myself as Autistic that I was able to grow and flourish and fully exercise the talents I have, and even take advantage of the negative aspects of being Autistic.

Hey do you mind if I screencap this post with your quote in it? I’ll blot your username if you like.

 

[Greatshield17]

Think about what type of message you'd like to convey and who would have a good reason to listen to it. Generally, the only people I can think of who'd have a reason to listen are people who are affected in some way by autism such as people who know a family member with autism or people who work with autistic people such as social workers, counselors, priests, or teachers. If you're raising money for a charity, people with extra money to spare who like to help other people might be willing to listen.

Here's a question to think about: If someone came to you to discuss how great it is to have Down Syndrome or why they think their paranoid schizophrenia, narcissism, sociopathy, or psychopathy is a normal part of human neurodiversity that society should embrace, would you be interested in listening?

I think your answer would be influenced by:
1. whether any of those conditions are relevant to you (such as knowing or working with someone with those conditions)
2. whether you hold any views that contradict what the other person is promoting

I guess; I mean if that actually happened to me in particular, me being as both an Autistic and Catholic and versed in philosophy, I would actually respond by asking to calmly start asking questions. (Which is actually how I want these discussions to go.)

But of course part of what you said applies to me as well, I know someone whose both Autistic and schizophrenic; he’s okay with being Autistic, but I’m 99% certain he’s not okay with having schizophrenia.

 

[Thinx]

Perhaps I should have worded it better. Most parents of autistic children I've heard want a cure that results in their children becoming "indistinguishable from their peers" so they can have a happy life being normal. I think, but have no way of knowing for sure, that most, but not all, autistic people feel the same way. I think many people with disabilities choose to think about it positively to feel better about themselves but would probably like to get rid of their impairments. If doctors created a pill that could instantly cure autism (meaning it removed all autistic traits/symptoms) without any side effects, I think most people with autism would take it. Of course, I could be wrong since I'm just sharing my opinion. Is that better?

Generally opinions aren't 'wrong' in that they are simply that person's view however misguided. Here though, you state an opinion about what other people in two large groups do or would experience, and then you opine how they would act on what you opine they would feel. You also attribute a simple optimism to everyone with autism oh and every other disability, then shoot down what you disrespectfully generalised in the first place to assert they are just saying it but really they don't mean it.

What do you think is the point of your guesswork? And what about all the other possibilities we could opine might occur? You seem to want to override any process of consultation with people in these 2 large groups in order to reach an imaginary scenario where things are about to be magically changed.

You change the issues under discussion to a scenario that's a bit like saying, ok, but what if instead of having say, racial tension, economic inequality... etc, what if everyone could win the lottery? Then they'd be happy!

It's a fantasy scenario and it isn't what is happening or ever likely to happen. Try staying with the real stated positions of different parties in disagreements they have, try finding out more about their actual varied points of view, and ask them,what makes you think that? We can't magic conflicts away with unfounded assumptions and fantasy solutions. This would be more respectful too.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Parents sometimes can be the hardest to reach,...a combination of denial, embarrassment, pride "My child is the most beautiful and perfect in the world, there's nothing wrong with him.", a social media full of disinformation, an internet full of sites peddling false cures and treatments by "leading doctors and scientists" (aka "quacks" looking to take advantage of desperate parents to steal their money), even well-meaning but uniformed pediatricians telling parents "It's a phase, let's see if he grows out of it.",...so on an so forth.

Denial: When it helps, When it hurts

 

[Matthias]

Have you seen my post?

I saw it but I don't understand it. I've told people I'm autistic and other people that I'm just weird and it didn't make any difference. Are you saying that pretending to be someone you're not caused psychological damage and that it's healthier being yourself?

 

[Matthias]

I know someone whose both Autistic and schizophrenic; he’s okay with being Autistic, but I’m 99% certain he’s not okay with having schizophrenia.

I think part of it is the stigma or perception of each condition. If autistics were considered psychotic and schizophrenics were considered to just be odd, I think it's likely he'd be okay with having schizophrenia but not be okay with being autistic.