What is it like being neurotypical or Aspie?

[DogwoodTree]

It feels a bit like I'm manipulating her. As someone who has been manipulated by men, it treads on dangerous ground.

Yes, agreed...it's not healthy to take responsibility for other people's feelings, NT or aspie or anything else. Each person is responsible for their own feelings. My therapist (who is NT) is the one who is teaching me this, so it's not an NT vs aspie thing.

At the same time, I think that I, as an aspie, tend to be way more sensitive to interactions that might possibly be manipulative, when the NT sees it simply as a nice gesture that you could take it or leave it, up to you.

I'm not really sure where an objective distinction would be between "nice gesture" and "making you feel good." Maybe...if the person offers the compliment out of their own anxiety ("I need you to feel good so you'll like me better") vs offering the compliment but not really invested in whether you accept the compliment or not ("It's totally up to you whether you accept this compliment, but either way, I still like your dress").

 

[On the Inside]

Yes, agreed...it's not healthy to take responsibility for other people's feelings, NT or aspie or anything else. Each person is responsible for their own feelings. My therapist (who is NT) is the one who is teaching me this, so it's not an NT vs aspie thing.

At the same time, I think that I, as an aspie, tend to be way more sensitive to interactions that might possibly be manipulative, when the NT sees it simply as a nice gesture that you could take it or leave it, up to you.

I'm not really sure where an objective distinction would be between "nice gesture" and "making you feel good." Maybe...if the person offers the compliment out of their own anxiety ("I need you to feel good so you'll like me better") vs offering the compliment but not really invested in whether you accept the compliment or not ("It's totally up to you whether you accept this compliment, but either way, I still like your dress").

That is well put. I have come to be wary of manipulation disguised as a compliment since some of my old dysfunctional friends tried to "help" me when I was having a lot of trouble coping several years ago. I don't want to be dismissive of compliments and fostering good will, but I have had to learn to discern who has my best interests in mind and those who are looking to get something in return.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Forgive me if this seems negative, but that sounds exhausting, but perhaps you are exaggerating.

I agree...it sounds very codependent to me. But like you said, she might have just overstated.

There's someone in my family who, even though she's a professional, she's very dependent on compliments in order to stay motivated to do her work. If she feels she's not getting enough compliments, she goes fishing for them. She told me in an email one time that people owe her compliments if they care about her, and if they're not giving her compliments, she'll find ways to drag it out of them (to be fair, she gives lots of compliments in return, too--she believes it's a necessary component of showing love). Then if she still can't get enough compliments to stay motivated, she starts missing deadlines and doing poor quality work and has actually dropped out of a project before finishing it (leaving it to others on the team to do her job) because people around her weren't keeping her motivated enough. Seriously. After that fiasco, I've become leery of anyone who "needs" compliments to feel good about themselves.

 

[On the Inside]

I agree...it sounds very codependent to me. But like you said, she might have just overstated.

There's someone in my family who, even though she's a professional, she's very dependent on compliments in order to stay motivated to do her work. If she feels she's not getting enough compliments, she goes fishing for them. She told me in an email one time that people owe her compliments if they care about her, and if they're not giving her compliments, she'll find ways to drag it out of them (to be fair, she gives lots of compliments in return, too--she believes it's a necessary component of showing love). Then if she still can't get enough compliments to stay motivated, she starts missing deadlines and doing poor quality work and has actually dropped out of a project before finishing it (leaving it to others on the team to do her job) because people around her weren't keeping her motivated enough. Seriously. After that fiasco, I've become leery of anyone who "needs" compliments to feel good about themselves.

Wow, that seems extreme. If that were the case with me, I'd never get anything done. Not that I don't do good work, it's just that I don't expect compliments to be tossed around like herring to the performing seal. First, I'm the #1 judge of whether I am doing a good job or not, and second, I would expect to get canned if I behaved that way.

 

[Beverly]

Most complimenting, in my experience is part of the social game, the one giving the compliment is doing so to get something form the one being complimented. That might be something as big as a work contract or promotion or as small as a dinner invitation, but, there is always an ulterior motive to a compliment. The person giving it is trying to get something from you and, thinks that making a positive impression on you will help them get what they want.

Yes it is a form of manipulation, as is 90% of the social game. Everybody wants something and, conversation is often the way they choose to attempt to get it. Advertisers, business owners, underlings, friends, everyone does it.

"Oh, I love your new car." translates to "Tell me how to make them sell me one like it." or "I want one for a gift from you this year." "Love your dress. Is that Elle you're wearing?" translates to "How can I get my wardrobe people to get me dresses like that?" or "Wow, you're rich, give me some of that money." Depending on the situation.

A genuine, 100% honest compliment with no ulterior motive is very rare, at least in my circles it is. Even one form a fan is a veiled request for an autograph, selfie or , free song. That's just how it is, they all want something and, use half or completely dishonest compliments to get it or, get closer to getting what they want.

All a part of the fact that as you climb the various ladders to the top of any profession, it becomes more and more about who you know and, who likes you than what you know or are capable of doing. Do you really think I'd be where I am without ingratiating myself to marketers and publicity experts? No, if they didn't think I liked them, if I didn't give them the false compliments and, occasional high end gifts, I wouldn't get the positive, wide spread publicity I need. So yes, doing that is manipulating them into putting me in a fabulous light, making me sound like a fantastic person and, the best musician on the planet. In turn they compliment me to get the holiday gifts or cash bonuses, use of one of my homes for their vacation etc... They manipulate me too, that's simply how it works.

The odd thing is, I don't know one NT that actually sees how much manipulation is going on in almost and social conversation. To them it's instinctive, normal, natural to talk like that. I see it, people fishing for an invitation, a smile a compliment in return, a gift, a favor, a lower price on an item they want to purchase, etc... All manipulations to get what they want.

Even a small child will do it, crying, screaming, throwing a fit gets what they want so they do it. If doing a certain chore gets what they want, they do that. If telling Mum dinner was great get them an hour of something they want to do, they say it.

Now people on the spectrum are far more likely to give honest compliments with no ulterior motive. We tend to give fewer compliments but, when we do give one it is because it is out honest opinion that whatever it is we are complimenting is deserving of recognition. We don't want anything in return because we are simply being honest and stating our opinion of something or, of something about another person. We aren't looking for any sort of emotional need to be met or to make the other person feel any certain way, we're just being honest. I value a compliment form someone on the spectrum far more than one from an NT unless it's a NT I know well and, know to be genuine in such matters.

 

[Cosmophylla]

...do you think that Rebecca would be able to tell that even though you are complimenting her about the skirt, there is a part of you that doesn't like the skirt? I ask this because sometimes it's as though a person can read what's in my mind, so I worry that they would know if I don't actually like the skirt, for example, I'm complimenting them about.

Yes, I feel this, too. Telling even a white lie makes me feel exposed, and making eye contact dramatically increases that feeling of exposure, like teetering on the verge of being found out as a fibber or fraud.

That's public socializing with NTs, a dishonest, pointless, meaningless game to me.

Well put. It is exactly like a game in the setting you describe... I despise that type of flattery. All that energy being wasted on puffing people up when all that energy could be put toward meaningful communication that makes a real difference to those present, or even to the world. I'd rather discuss philosophy than waste time passing false compliments.

There's someone in my family who, even though she's a professional, she's very dependent on compliments in order to stay motivated to do her work. If she feels she's not getting enough compliments, she goes fishing for them. She told me in an email one time that people owe her compliments if they care about her, and if they're not giving her compliments, she'll find ways to drag it out of them (to be fair, she gives lots of compliments in return, too--she believes it's a necessary component of showing love).

When I was much younger I had issues with codependency as well. My childhood saw me feeling rejected as a freak by my family, and as I got older I sought affirmation in others to try to heal that pain. I particularly sought affirmation in men, and went through a long series of relationships in which I was betrayed. The more I was manipulated by my partners, the more rejected and useless I felt, and the more I sought affirmation of my worth. My behaviour wasn't as overt as your family member, but it was a hard cycle to break. Alcohol turned out to be a big factor in that problem, and now that I don't drink the problem has pretty much gone. Also being in a steady relationship and having the unconditional love of my children has been very healing. ( I really believe that my brain is not designed for alcohol consumption and that for all those years the alcohol was perpetutating that extreme, twisted emotional response.)

To me, emotional thinking is the cause of poor decisions. If you are making choices based on emotions, or to feel a certain emotion then, you are ignoring the facts and, more often than not, doing that results in a bad decision...

You'd also sit around waiting for someone to tell you that it was good to buy the pink car because you want your emotions validated.

I completely agree that emotions should not be the sole basis of decision making... It can be a very dangerous thing.

On the other hand, I do allow my instinct to come into some decisions I make... Sometimes I decide something based on gut feeling (as distinct from emotion), but such decisions are generally not the weighty, life changing ones. In some cases, the benefits and disadvantages of the options before me are balanced, so I can allow intuition to step in. Do others allow intuition to come into decision making?

 

[Cosmophylla]

"Oh, I love your new car." translates to "Tell me how to make them sell me one like it." or "I want one for a gift from you this year." "Love your dress. Is that Elle you're wearing?" translates to "How can I get my wardrobe people to get me dresses like that?" or "Wow, you're rich, give me some of that money." Depending on the situation.

The odd thing is, I don't know one NT that actually sees how much manipulation is going on in almost and social conversation. To them it's instinctive, normal, natural to talk like that. I see it, people fishing for an invitation, a smile a compliment in return, a gift, a favor, a lower price on an item they want to purchase, etc... All manipulations to get what they want.

To be completely honest with everyone, this is one of those things that makes me so utterly depressed I think I don't want to live another forty years if this kind of thing is what is expected of me. Because I just can't do it, and I won't do it.

(It is so heartening to know that I'm not alone in hating this crap. I never knew that other people felt the same, except for my husband.)

Ulterior motives hidden behind false compliments require a kind of mind twist, like Orwellian doublethink - I can't even articulate it because it's such a weird concept. I can't work out how people can sleep at night after spending the day lying through their teeth in their quest for more, more, more. It is incredible how people don't even realise they are doing it.

Even a small child will do it, crying, screaming, throwing a fit gets what they want so they do it. If doing a certain chore gets what they want, they do that. If telling Mum dinner was great get them an hour of something they want to do, they say it.

This makes me feel pretty good because it reaffirms my suspicion that my son is on the spectrum... He just cannot do this kind of thing at all!!! He just can't comprehend it. Ah, so sweet, he takes after me.

 

[Beverly]

I think the majority of humans, as a species are a selfish and slightly sociopathic lot. Everyone is out for themselves and, most could care less whom they have to trample on or beat down to get what they want. Unfortunately for those of us on the spectrum, to really succeed in this world, we've got to learn to act like that ourselves.

We know is dishonest, manipulative, even cruel and cold hearted and, just plain wrong but, if we truly want to get to the top of ANYTHING in this world, we have to learn the game. Sadly, the nice, honest, fair guys really do finish last. The better you are at the game, the faster and farther you climb and, many of the rungs of your ladder to the top are other people whom you've done something directly or indirectly to keep down, and allow yourself to surpass them.

I won't deny doing it myself, of course I did and do, that's a part of what I pay my manager, PR team and spin doctors to teach me and, help me do well without looking like I'm doing it. Even in being the CEO of a non profit, I've got to play the game to rake in the donations and, access to services for people on the spectrum. How twisted is that, right? Have to play hardball and be a bit manipulative and liberal with the false compliments and, gifts to create something for Aspies.

And there, in a round about way, drags us all into the game. Even if you don't play directly, you benefit from those that do play. The thing is, part of what I want to do is give Aspies the chance to learn the game, the means to succeed if they want to.

 

[Wireless]

I mostly think in words, with some audio and visual. I almost always have a song or lines of dialogue (from real life or from media) playing on repeat in the background of my head. I can "watch" my favorite TV episodes in my head if I've seen them enough times, or "listen" to a radio show I've heard a few times before. The quality isn't great though and it takes effort.

My dyslexia assessment highlighted my poor fluid intelligence and issues with audio processing. It was a 3 hour long assessment and I was nervous, so this may have impacted test results. I believe that my general knowledge is perhaps slighter higher than average due to my natural curiosity about the world.

I am a poor systemiser, facts are not ordered neatly in mind. Instead they are strung together - recalling one fact leads to another. I find it harder to remember smaller details than "broader" details.

I find psychology and history much easier than science, although I am mildly interested in science and math, just don't have an instinctive understanding of them. I can enjoy music, but have never understood how it works. I am not a pattern thinker. I enjoy word play.

I am neither strongly emotional or logical. I'm probably more emotional than logical, just not to any extremes. I have emotional reactions to things, but I able to suppress those feelings so that I can view the situation logically and objectively. This has caused me to be quite a passive person.

 

[Judge]

Wish such a question, I can't help but ponder a basic social dynamic. That anyone in a numerically enormous, overwhelming social majority is not likely to give much thought to what it's like to be in such a majority. And conversely that those outside such a majority may articulate accurately or inaccurately a great deal about them.

I find myself thinking about a similar occasionally asked question in the US. What's it like to be Caucasian?

 

[Wireless]

It's not just Aspies who have to learn to play the game/ the rat race/whatever its called. NTs do as well. Some social skills are instinctive, others have to be taught over and over again, "Don't tell lies/don't tell the blunt truth/say hello/don't play with your food/share your toys/don't snatch." And it only gets harder as one gets older and enters the world of work e.g office/ workplace politics. For some NTs it's completely draining and playing the social game is distasteful and stressful to many of us, but we have to do it, or risk being fired, not getting promotions, etc. It's a common theme in books and TV shows, and why so many people suffer from work related illnesses like stress and depression.

As an introverted NT, I'm completely failing at life. Can't drive, never had a full time job, no friends, no relationships. I need to learn to knuckle down and get on with things, even though I know it means probably developing depression and anxiety.

 

[Axeman52]

I think the majority of humans, as a species are a selfish and slightly sociopathic lot. Everyone is out for themselves and, most could care less whom they have to trample on or beat down to get what they want. Unfortunately for those of us on the spectrum, to really succeed in this world, we've got to learn to act like that ourselves.

I really appreciate your posts in this thread because they provide a very good explanation of a possible reason why I've always struggled to get involved with other musicians and establish myself on the local music scene. This could be very valuable information to me.

 

[FreeDiver]

I think the majority of humans, as a species are a selfish and slightly sociopathic lot. Everyone is out for themselves and, most could care less whom they have to trample on or beat down to get what they want. Unfortunately for those of us on the spectrum, to really succeed in this world, we've got to learn to act like that ourselves.

We know is dishonest, manipulative, even cruel and cold hearted and, just plain wrong but, if we truly want to get to the top of ANYTHING in this world, we have to learn the game. Sadly, the nice, honest, fair guys really do finish last. The better you are at the game, the faster and farther you climb and, many of the rungs of your ladder to the top are other people whom you've done something directly or indirectly to keep down, and allow yourself to surpass them.

I won't deny doing it myself, of course I did and do, that's a part of what I pay my manager, PR team and spin doctors to teach me and, help me do well without looking like I'm doing it. Even in being the CEO of a non profit, I've got to play the game to rake in the donations and, access to services for people on the spectrum. How twisted is that, right? Have to play hardball and be a bit manipulative and liberal with the false compliments and, gifts to create something for Aspies.

And there, in a round about way, drags us all into the game. Even if you don't play directly, you benefit from those that do play. The thing is, part of what I want to do is give Aspies the chance to learn the game, the means to succeed if they want to.

GOD! you hit it on the nail here. I run a custom electrical engineering business and some of the sheer dishonest and manipulative stuff, I have to do just to bring customers in, just makes me wanna gag. I just don't get it at times. But you're right, it's a game we have to play and we all have to harden are hearts to get good at it.

 

[Cosmophylla]

I don't want to be a sheep. I don't want to have to compromise my happiness and principles to play a game with rules I don't understand that are written by people I don't like. Living like that leads to deep depression and stress whenever I've tried it.

For the sake of my health I've learnt I have to think small, and be content with what I have. Striving for more, for success, money, fame, whatever, is the path to discontent, panic attacks, and worse.

It's a good thing I know how to grow food.

 

[Loomis]

I think the majority of humans, as a species are a selfish and slightly sociopathic lot. Everyone is out for themselves and, most could care less whom they have to trample on or beat down to get what they want. Unfortunately for those of us on the spectrum, to really succeed in this world, we've got to learn to act like that ourselves.

We know is dishonest, manipulative, even cruel and cold hearted and, just plain wrong but, if we truly want to get to the top of ANYTHING in this world, we have to learn the game. Sadly, the nice, honest, fair guys really do finish last. The better you are at the game, the faster and farther you climb and, many of the rungs of your ladder to the top are other people whom you've done something directly or indirectly to keep down, and allow yourself to surpass them.

I won't deny doing it myself, of course I did and do, that's a part of what I pay my manager, PR team and spin doctors to teach me and, help me do well without looking like I'm doing it. Even in being the CEO of a non profit, I've got to play the game to rake in the donations and, access to services for people on the spectrum. How twisted is that, right? Have to play hardball and be a bit manipulative and liberal with the false compliments and, gifts to create something for Aspies.

And there, in a round about way, drags us all into the game. Even if you don't play directly, you benefit from those that do play. The thing is, part of what I want to do is give Aspies the chance to learn the game, the means to succeed if they want to.

It is essential to have enough resources to provide food, shelter and healthcare for yourself and dependants. If you have these, you have everything you need, the rest is surplus. Sorta like Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Then you can work on getting what is real, the stuff that does not decay and disintegrate: integrity, honesty, trust, awareness, understanding, internal peace, calmness, kindness and equanimity.

 

[Beverly]

Loomis Yes, as my grandfather often reminded me "A good bed and good food is all you need, count everything else as a bonus."

 

[LoveDream]

I find what you have written very helpful. I've observed, it particular, amongst the ladies at church, the giving of compliments and have been trying to build it into my interactions with them, but I never really understood the reason why they do it or what they are really saying when they give a compliment.

Carrying on with the example of Rebecca's lime green skirt, do you think that Rebecca would be able to tell that even though you are complimenting her about the skirt, there is a part of you that doesn't like the skirt? I ask this because sometimes it's as though a person can read what's in my mind, so I worry that they would know if I don't actually like the skirt, for example, I'm complimenting them about.



Have you ever found that the level of emotional validation that a person is seeking from you is very high? And that it exceeds what you are able to give/ is draining?

Do you think that there is alot of variation amongst NTs' ability to read when another person is seeking emotional validation and in their ability to know what to say to meet that need?

(Sometimes, I assume that being an NT means a person must be an expert communicator, but that seems like an overgeneralization.)

Sometimes I get a vague impression that the person I'm talking to is looking to me for a response (not a 'yes' or 'no' response, but they have some form of emotional need they are asking me to care for/about), but I have no idea what that emotional need is or what I could say that would satisfy that need. It's as though they are speaking a foreign language that I've been trying to learn but I'm not fluent in, and I still need to translate their language into the equivalent in my language, which I am slow to do, so if I do ever figure it out, the conversation will probably have already finished. Also, I frequently mistranslate and give a response that isn't what they want or need.

Hi Vinca!!!! I'm glad that I wasn't confusing and you find it helpful! I think its great that you are trying to add compliments into your conversations with the ladies at the church.

No, Rebecca doesn't know that I would never wear the skirt. In fact, when Rebecca hears the compliment, she thinks about "herself" and how good she looks in the skirt, not about you or how you'd look in the skirt. Does that make sense? It's a very self-centered thought process. If you'd feel more comfortable, you could say, "Wow, you look great in that skirt. I could never pull off such a bright color." (Or something along those lines, it's the truth-you wouldn't wear it but Rebecca looks great) and Rebecca will hear the same thing, "how good she looks in the skirt."

Yes, sometimes, it can be very draining to give and give and give emotionally. Especially, because I can read and understand emotions extremely well, so I have to consciously walk a fine line between emotions and egos. For example, I had a friend who was always in some type of drama and every conversation she monopolized it with her personal drama. She never wanted advice, wasn't willing to change her life or get rid of the bad influences. It was draining to have to listen to her do the same things over and over again and it became toxic to my emotional being. I was stressed out because I worried about her and I was constantly giving her all my time, my energy, my comfort just to have her go right back to the same environment the next day. I finally had to stop being her friend and it hurt me so much because I cared for her but I could not live like that.

No, NT's aren't all expert communicators. In fact, we often stumble, blank, say the wrong things, stutter, freeze etc...I understand that its tough to figure out the emotional need. Basically, what we want to have is your attention, empathy and know that you care.

Here's a tip, if an NT is talking about something that requires an emotional response - Ask the NT how that makes them feel? They will tell you their feelings and then you can use that to state something like, "I would feel the same way or I can see how you feel that way"-Basically, you are acknowledging and empathizing which is like getting an '100%' in NT world. If Alexia tells me that her boyfriend Sam is being a jerk and isn't texting or answering her calls and she's just over him. I'd say, "That's annoying! I would feel the same way if Mr. LoveDream did that to me."

Or summarize what they just said to you and ask an open-ended question. I do this all the time. Ex: "Alexia, I just don't understand why Sam isn't responding to you? Do you think his phone is broken or did you get into a fight?" Open-ended questions, makes the NT do all the work in explaining, while you get the benefit of listening and understanding. This is very useful!!

I hope this helps I have enjoyed your comeents <3~<3~<3

 

[Hurting89]

I have normal social skills and recognition of empathy (strong NT qualities) but I am still on the spectrum. I feel like I have "three minds" sometimes - my Aspie mind, emotionally immature female mind and logical NT mind. It's nearly impossible to explain ( I may write a post on it one day) but I guess the they all contradict each other. I see the world though three different minds depending on the week.

Normally when I'm under tremendous stress the aspie mind takes over an causes me to "get lost in obsessions". Which makes me feel lost in a fog and a strong sense of parochial thinking. The NT part of me expands my mental horizons and desires relationships and support from others.

 

[LoveDream]

Forgive me if this seems negative, but that sounds exhausting, but perhaps you are exaggerating. I feel that I could wait around forever before my emotions would be validated by someone else.

What form does this emotional validation take? I can understand compliments, I like getting them and try to give them often, but I don't equate that with emotional validation. I have emotions, they are caused by certain events, people, places, memories, but I don't feel a need for validation, they are my emotions, they effect my thinking, physical sensations, hopes, fears, they come and go, sometimes they can get out of hand, but even then, they will pass. What about that needs validating?

Hi! Thank you for commenting. I'll try to explain and forgive me because I naturally do not communicate in literal terms, but I will try. Yes, we need emotional validation from our world....

Emotional Validation is when one acknowledges, accepts and understands other's feelings, thoughts or behaviors, without judgment. The goal is to be supportive and understanding, not critical.

If you think about it, all humans WANT to be understood and accepted. It's not really such an uncommon desire.

An example, you are really angry that your sister drove you car, left trash in it and did not even bother filling it back up with gas.
-You are venting to your girlfriend about your sister and your girlfriend says, "Calm down, she's your only sister. It's not that big of a deal. Just let it go."
-You start to get frustrated with your girlfriend because she doesn't understand you. You tell her "it is a big deal" and to "stop minimizing your sister's rudeness."
-What you wanted was your girlfriend to acknowledge your feelings, accept them and understand. It would look like this:
-Girlfriend: "I see that this is a big deal to you and I can see how frustrating it is when your sister doesn't take care of your car. (ACKNOWLEDGE/ACCEPT). "I feel really aggravated when my roommate borrows my clothes and doesn't return them nice and clean. So, I can see how you find your sister to be rude and inconsiderate." (UNDERSTAND).

That's it! What is not needed is JUDGEMENT. We don't want to be criticized or given "advice". Don't tell me how I should think about my sister. Just listen, hear me.
Just understand. It's not about right or wrong.

When we get this from others we feel safe and connected because we can openly express our emotions without 'restraint' and know that no matter what, they will accept us.

Compliments work similarly in the sense of acknowledging, accepting and understanding other's effort, so to speak. Not judging or criticizing.

I compliment Mr. LoveDream on his effort, regardless of whether or not I would have done it the same way.

Ex: Mr. LoveDream was 'flirting' this morning by peeking around the corner of the bathroom door, while I did my makeup.
● I told him he was being really cute when he was 'flirting'. I genuinely meant it, he was cute.
■ Now, would I flirt that way? NO, but that's not needed nor relevant.
●■●■ Mr. LoveDream was being fun, silly, friendly and expressing his happiness and I let him know I acknowledge him, accept his effort and understand his actions.

Self-Validation is what you described and we do that as well, we just also like to be accepted and understood by others, too.

Forgive me if this seems negative, but that sounds exhausting, but perhaps you are exaggerating. I feel that I could wait around forever before my emotions would be validated by someone else.

What form does this emotional validation take? I can understand compliments, I like getting them and try to give them often, but I don't equate that with emotional validation. I have emotions, they are caused by certain events, people, places, memories, but I don't feel a need for validation, they are my emotions, they effect my thinking, physical sensations, hopes, fears, they come and go, sometimes they can get out of hand, but even then, they will pass. What about that needs validating?

Forgive me if this seems negative, but that sounds exhausting, but perhaps you are exaggerating. I feel that I could wait around forever before my emotions would be validated by someone else.

What form does this emotional validation take? I can understand compliments, I like getting them and try to give them often, but I don't equate that with emotional validation. I have emotions, they are caused by certain events, people, places, memories, but I don't feel a need for validation, they are my emotions, they effect my thinking, physical sensations, hopes, fears, they come and go, sometimes they can get out of hand, but even then, they will pass. What about that needs validating?

 

[DogwoodTree]

Just listen, hear me.
Just understand. It's not about right or wrong.

When we get this from others we feel safe and connected because we can openly express our emotions without 'restraint' and know that no matter what, they will accept us.

I think the disconnect, for me, is that what you described in the parts I bolded...I don't experience those things. At all. I've never felt understood. I've never felt safe and connected with people (even though I love my husband and he's a great person...long backstory there, though, that is not his fault, but a result of my childhood experiences). I've never felt truly accepted because I've never been able to express my emotions without restraint. I've tried. Honestly I have. But it doesn't come out in an authentic, natural, intuitive, fluid sort of way. It just doesn't. So if I can't express what I really feel, then I can't be accepted, so I can't feel safe and connected, and no one understands me.

If all of those things could happen, then maybe the scenario you describe would be more comforting and fulfilling, and might be something I would be able to give and willing to pursue. But it doesn't work that way for me. I don't know why. I've tried for 4 decades to find that kind of experience with people. And it doesn't happen. Ever. So it's really hard for me to understand that it actually does happen for NTs.

I thought everyone was faking that experience. Really, I did. I thought you showed someone you cared by faking connection. I thought that was what everyone did. And then I stopped faking it because I wanted to be more authentic, and I thought people would appreciate my honesty, but people started getting hurt, and I was really confused. I'm still not totally convinced other people aren't faking it. I just can't quite fathom that this is a real experience for people.

Please understand that this is not judgment against you (or other NTs), at least not from me. There really seems to be a layer of experience you have in relationships that I simply don't get. It's just as foreign to me as, say, synesthesia would be to you. I can't imagine what it feels like to you, but when I watch people enjoying that sense of connection, and I pick up on the clues that show how much they enjoy it, I feel extremely lonely in that space. Sometimes it's easier to assume they're faking it than to admit how much quality of life I miss out on.

And sometimes it's not denial so much as ignorance. My understanding of NTs' experience is based purely on observation and cognitively connecting clues to try and figure out what you want or what you're feeling. For you, it's intuitive. You don't have to think about it. For me, it's a complex guessing game where I frequently fail.