Rainman

[Chris12345]

Before I was diagnosed with autism my favourite film was 'rainman' and still is. Although I'm not exactly like the character in that film - no one noticed I was autistic until my late thirties, for instance - something must have resonated with me.

Everyone focuses on Dustin Hoffman's performance, which was excellent, but I think Tom Cruise's performance deserves great praise.

I think that film says a lot about freedom, among other themes. I can't really explain what I mean by that, it's something to do with the way America is depicted (I've only been to America once, on holiday).

I suppose it's maybe something to do with contrasting disability to non-disabled. By showing what one can't do it accentuates what the other can. (I know that not all autistic people are disabled in the way he is.)

And obviously the way that Charlie grows as a person, through love of his brother, is brilliantly done. In fact, they both grow as people. The way Charlie finally breaks through and makes a connection.

It's an iconic film. Anyone else touched by that film?

 

[Judge]

It's worth noting that the character in question was "modeled" after Kim Peek, did not have autism.

"Unlike many individuals with savant syndrome, Kim Peek was not afflicted with autistic spectrum disorder. Though he was strongly introverted, he did not have difficulties with social understanding and communication. The main cause of his remarkable abilities seems to have been the lack of connections between his brain's two hemispheres. An MRI scan revealed an absence of the corpus callosum, the anterior commissure and the hippocampal commissure, the parts of the neurological system that transfer information between hemispheres. In a sense, Kim was a natural-born split-brain patient."

Kim Peek, the Real Rain Man

Low IQ, extraordinary mind.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Mary Terry]

The character in question was "modeled" after Kim Peek, who did not have autism.

"Unlike many individuals with savant syndrome, Kim Peek was not afflicted with autistic spectrum disorder. Though he was strongly introverted, he did not have difficulties with social understanding and communication. The main cause of his remarkable abilities seems to have been the lack of connections between his brain's two hemispheres. An MRI scan revealed an absence of the corpus callosum, the anterior commissure and the hippocampal commissure, the parts of the neurological system that transfer information between hemispheres. In a sense, Kim was a natural-born split-brain patient."

Kim Peek, the Real Rain Man

Low IQ, extraordinary mind.

www.psychologytoday.com

I've read that Kim Peek could read two different texts at the same time, using one eye to read one text, and the other eye to read a different text.

 

[Judge]

I've read that Kim Peek could read two different texts at the same time, using one eye to read one text, and the other eye to read a different text.

Indeed, he was quite amazing. However just not one of us per se. Sad how Hollywood so easily tampers with the details to fit their narrative creatively speaking. Sometimes the truth is more interesting than they give credit for.

 

[Chris12345]

Indeed, he was quite amazing. However just not one of us per se. Sad how Hollywood so easily tampers with the details to fit their narrative creatively speaking. Sometimes the truth is more interesting than they give credit for.

There is a question raised in the film about whether he's autistic. It's subtle, but it's there. So subtle that I forgot about it. If I remember correctly there's a point where Charlie asks Raymond if he's autistic and he replies "no, definitely not".

I might watch the film again and look out for that.

 

[jsilver256]

The concept of "different" intelligences is fascinating.

Been working through Murdle puzzles (get the book, the web interface is awful). Autistic people excel at analytical reasoning, but falter at processing speed and encoding. Murdle combines both in one puzzle and gives a strange rush of feeling simultaneously stupid and smart.

 

[Judge]

There is a question raised in the film about whether he's autistic. It's subtle, but it's there. So subtle that I forgot about it. If I remember correctly there's a point where Charlie asks Raymond if he's autistic and he replies "no, definitely not".

I might watch the film again and look out for that.

It's another consideration that distresses me about Hollywood productions. Those which choose to deliberately be ambiguous about such medical details, so as to keep their audience appeal as broad as possible. Where I think of personalities like writer/producer Chuck Lorre in particular. Who always seems to dance around questions of what motivates his characters in "The Big Bang Theory".

Of course they are in the bu$iness of film making, first and foremost. Still, it's discouraging when they get it wrong and/or perpetuate stereotypes. On the other hand, film's like "Mozart And The Whale" I found to be fairly genuine when it comes to Autism Spectrum Disorder. Or the film "Snowcakes". Productions willing to deal with autism head-on.

 

[marc_101]

Steve Silberman's book Neurotribes has a great description of Raiman's making. As usual, my memory fails me with details, but what I recall is that the script was written by a person who had a sweet relationship with a person with autism whom he adopted.

However, the character is a composite.

Dusting Hoffman used to work with institutionalized people before becomoning famous, and met several people with autism to model his behavior, including Peek, but that parts is separate from the script and the writing of the character.

But the main point is that Rainman is a composite of many different people. Autistic but also savant.

 

[marc_101]

It's another consideration that distresses me about Hollywood productions. Those which choose to deliberately be ambiguous about such medical details, so as to keep their audience appeal as broad as possible. Where I think of personalities like writer/producer Chuck Lorre in particular. Who always seems to dance around questions of what motivates his characters in "The Big Bang Theory".

I heard an interview with the creator of the Big Bang Theory. I think it was with Terry Gross on NPR in the US, but my memory is not great with details. What I remember well is that he on purpose decided not to give Sheldom a diagnosis. His reasoning was that he didn't want to mislead people as to the traits of a diagnosis because it could be a disservice to those with the diagnosis. He seemed responsible in his decision and I remember I felt it was well intentioned.

In other words, base the character on perhaps a person he knew or a person with some odd but endearing characteristic and don't make the mistake of giving the character a medical diagnosis.

If somebody can fact check me, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Judge]

I heard an interview with the creator of the Big Bang Theory. I think it was with Terry Gross on NPR in the US, but my memory is not great with details. What I remember well is that he on purpose decided not to give Sheldom a diagnosis. His reasoning was that he didn't want to mislead people as to the traits of a diagnosis because it could be a disservice to those with the diagnosis. He seemed responsible in his decision and I remember I felt it was well intentioned.

In other words, base the character on perhaps a person he knew or a person with some odd but endearing characteristic and don't make the mistake of giving the character a medical diagnosis.

If somebody can fact check me, I'd appreciate it.

That just reflects a public relations element, which is more the rule than the exception of Hollywood.

If you consider the business-end of television and film, it may not appear so well-intended. Contrary to legal dynamics, when perpetuating ambiguities is more profitable. An effective way to mitigate or even pacify potential criticism and polarization of an audience.

 

[marc_101]

Yes, could be. I can't judge their intentions, but I think it was a good idea. Otherwise people would think that all autistics are like Sheldom. Or Rainman.

 

[Judge]

Otherwise people would think that all autistics are like Sheldon. Or Rainman.

That's the challenge. It is tragic to think that a society all too often relies on perception based on dramatic productions rather than documentaries. But then it also reflects a simple dynamic Hollywood knows all too well. That most people on their own time want to be entertained, not enlightened.

Probably the most driving force for Hollywood to keep such subjects in and out of the realm of accuracy depending on audience appeal and the caprice of directors, producers and studio executives. And above all, anticipated box-office receipts and other sources of revenue.

Leaving us with stereotypes and a very few productions which get it right in whole or in part.

 

[Chris12345]

The way I've heard it put is that autistic people often have a 'spiky profile', in the sense of being very good at some things and very poor at others. I feel that applies in my case, to some extent. Sometimes I feel smart; other times I feel stupid. Just depends on the context.

In terms of rainman, a film can't accommodate everyone's sensitivities. The point of it is not to say that everyone with autism is like Raymond. Part of the point is that he's a unique individual and the film treats him sympathetically. He's a disabled person (whether or not he's autistic) who's treated as if he has value (and not because he has savant talents). That's important in itself.

 

[not_an_orange_cat]

It's another consideration that distresses me about Hollywood productions. Those which choose to deliberately be ambiguous about such medical details, so as to keep their audience appeal as broad as possible. Where I think of personalities like writer/producer Chuck Lorre in particular. Who always seems to dance around questions of what motivates his characters in "The Big Bang Theory".

Of course they are in the bu$iness of film making, first and foremost. Still, it's discouraging when they get it wrong and/or perpetuate stereotypes. On the other hand, film's like "Mozart And The Whale" I found to be fairly genuine when it comes to Autism Spectrum Disorder. Or the film "Snowcakes". Productions willing to deal with autism head-on.

I couldn't watch Big Bang Theory. Something about ND behaviors being treated like silly gags in a way that was entirely stereotyped and without any underlying nuance bothered me; though, more so that it became popular for it.

Similar when Napoleon Dynamite came out. It became hugely popular among teenagers, but I found that ironic because it centered on characters who would be heavily mistreated by those same teenagers, but when it's a movie, their "antics" are hilarious and lovable as a gag.

Besides Rainman, a couple movies that had "a bit different" protagonists looking for connection/struggling find a place in society that made an impact on me were Sling Blade and The Fisher King.

There were many highly-acclaimed films in the 1990s and a little bit into the early 2000s that were bold in terms of portraying social conditions and characters who are not in the norm in a multi-faceted way, without turning them into caricatures. Night on Earth comes to mind, too.

 

[Tom]

Just some backround. The impression I get is the character seems to have been written or actor modeled on more then one source, but the primary source seems to be a real person who wasn't diagnosed with autism.

"Kim Peek, or “Rain man,” suffered from FG syndrome, a genetic condition that affects intelligence and behavior. He also lacked a corpus callosum, which is the bundle of nerve fibers connecting the two hemispheres of the brain, and was born with macrocephaly—a condition in which the brain is enlarged. Due to these brain abnormalities, Kim developed many special abilities, such as an astounding memory and advanced mental calculation and speed-reading skills. Kim was able to read both pages of a book simultaneously while retaining 98 percent of the information. On the other hand, Kim also had difficulties with many tasks, such as logistical math problems, following certain directions, and reduced physical coordination."

Savant Syndrome » the nerve blog | Blog Archive | Boston University

There may be some overlap in symptoms between ASD and FGS and autistics can also be savants. But I was suprised by the figure this article gives for there being only about 50 true savants total. I would have guessed many more.

 

[Judge]

Just some background. The impression I get is the character seems to have been written or actor modeled on more then one source, but the primary source seems to be a real person who wasn't diagnosed with autism.

Most likely. Hollywood productions are seldom a linear process, both fiscally and creatively speaking.

No telling how much improvisation gets through by directors' caprice, actors' egos and on occasion studio executives. Where even the tidiest script stands a chance of being seldom recognizable. Much like legislation, where an intended "horse" winds up as a "camel" metaphorically speaking.

Whether the original source was real, or complete fiction. A sad subject in the eyes of authors like Stephen King, who have some choice things to say about Hollywood films based on his works of fiction.

 

[Shevek]

That movie would seem far more plausible if the aspie, who had only known institutional life, had about a month to recover between those wild new adventures.

 

[Neri]

My dad relates to Rainman. My youngest son calls me a "musical savant".