Question if there is more to psychosis than just Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders

[Oz67]

What if there is more to psychosis than just Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders, don't all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental including psychotic features if it is severe

 

[Chris12345]

Schizophrenia, schizoaffective, bipolar, psychotic depression, drug-related psychosis.

Those are all the reasons for psychosis I can think of, but I'm no expert (though I have personally experienced it).

 

[MildredHubble]

What if there is more to psychosis than just Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders, don't all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental including psychotic features if it is severe

Not quite sure what you are asking here. Could you explain a bit more? Psychosis is something anyone can experience for many different reasons.

 

[Oz67]

Not quite sure what you are asking here. Could you explain a bit more? Psychosis is something anyone can experience for many different reasons.

I was asking if all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders can include psychotic features if it is severe.

 

[Chris12345]

I would say that psychotic disorders often co-occur with autism. But most people with autism don't have psychosis. So if you have it you probably have a co-occuring disorder.

But again, I'm no psychiatrist.

 

[MildredHubble]

I was asking if all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders can include psychotic features if it is severe.

I'm not sure. I suppose anything that can affect your perceptions, if it's severe enough could lead to some symptoms that could be considered psychosis.

 

[MildredHubble]

I googled around a bit and there seems to be many factors that could lead to the development of psychosis.

What I found were mainly scientific papers. Trauma seems to be a big contributing factor, which makes sense to me. It would also seem to stand to reason that people with neurodevelopmental disorders probably experience more traumatic events.

One thing that should be kept in mind is that there's a lot of factors involved and having a neurodevelopmental disorder doesn't necessarily mean a person is guaranteed to develop psychosis. Also not having a neurodevelopmental disorder does not guarantee you won't develop psychosis. It's a very complex thing that depends on a number of interacting factors.

 

[Oz67]

I googled around a bit and there seems to be many factors that could lead to the development of psychosis.

What I found were mainly scientific papers. Trauma seems to be a big contributing factor, which makes sense to me. It would also seem to stand to reason that people with neurodevelopmental disorders probably experience more traumatic events.

One thing that should be kept in mind is that there's a lot of factors involved and having a neurodevelopmental disorder doesn't necessarily mean a person is guaranteed to develop psychosis. Also not having a neurodevelopmental disorder does not guarantee you won't develop psychosis. It's a very complex thing that depends on a number of interacting factors.

That actually makes sense.

 

[Seladon]

One of my similar-age cousins when in his mid teens developed a year-long psychosis because of a very severe eating disorder (the cause or trigger of which I still do not know as he says it’s blocked out in his mind—could have been trauma, drugs, mental illness ) He was Eugenia thin yet punching holes in walls.

Terrifying to witness, and in the long run frankly as traumatising if not more so to us family members who cared for him. He’s fine and well now, I still have weekly nightmares about it.

 

[Oz67]

One of my similar-age cousins when in his mid teens developed a year-long psychosis because of a very severe eating disorder (the cause or trigger of which I still do not know as he says it’s blocked out in his mind—could have been trauma, drugs, mental illness ) He was Eugenia thin yet punching holes in walls.

Terrifying to witness, and in the long run frankly as traumatising if not more so to us family members who cared for him. He’s fine and well now, I still have weekly nightmares about it.

That makes sense.

 

[Neri]

I got psychosis from a combination of malnourishment, chronic long-term stress caused by narcissistic abuse and smoking some high THC Cannabis combined. The malnourishment was severe B12 deficiency and when I got shots for it, it helped enormously. I did a lot of mindfulness practices and stimmy things to help. I did not take or need anti-psychotic medication.
It took me a long time to get free of the narcissistic abuse and while I wasn't psychotic for that much of it, I was gaslit A LOT and ended up in breakdown and receiving a complex PTSD diagnosis.

 

[Au Naturel]

A general definition of psychosis:

An acute or chronic mental state marked by loss of contact with reality, disorganized speech and behavior, and often by hallucinations or delusions, seen in certain mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, and other medical disorders.

A slightly different definition:

Psychosis is the term for a collection of symptoms that happen when a person has trouble telling the difference between what’s real and what’s not. This disconnection from reality can happen for several reasons, including many different mental and physical conditions. It’s usually treatable with medication and other techniques.

Psychosis: What It Is, Symptoms, Causes, Types & Treatment

Psychosis refers to symptoms that happen when a person is disconnected from reality. It may involve hallucinations or delusions, and it can happen for many reasons.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I was asking if all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders can include psychotic features if it is severe.

That is a very interesting question. I'm in medicine and gathered some experience in (child and adolescent) psychiatry, but I am by no means an expert.

A lot of reasons can cause psychosis. Some examples:
- psychiatric: schizophrenic disorders, schizoaffective disorders, depression/mania with psychotic symptoms, dementia, delirium
- drug-triggered/intoxication, e.g. cannabis, amphetamins, drug-withdrawal, medication side effect (e.g. some medication against Parkinson's disease)
- somatic (physical): infection/dehydration (especially in frail, elderly people), severe lack of sleep, some vitamin-deficiencies, some hormonal disorders, meningitis/encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), any sort of tumour inside the skull
- something in between: e.g. severe eating disorders

We see that psychosis is in no way limited to schizophrenic and other psychotic disorders.

However, I would be careful to assume that "all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders can include psychotic features" - already because in medicine assumptions that involve absolute words like "all", "every", "never", etc. are usually wrong
Seriously: I am not sure. But from what I know and assume, I don't really think so. Autism, as an example of a neurodevelopmental disorder, shouldn't normally lead to psychosis, even in a "severe" form. The person might get a psychosis through other, maybe autism-related things - like severe malnourishment by highly restrictive eating/not drinking, drug-abuse, or a comorbid psychotic disorder - but "just" the autism shouldn't by itself cause psychotic symptoms, if no other trigger occurs. At least that's my take?
Also, e.g. depression can be extremely severe, and yet the person doesn't have to necessarily develop psychotic symptoms. Psychotic symptoms don't happen at some point of "severeness" in primarily non-psychotic mental illnesses, like depression, at least not as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm very eager to learn about these things).
Things like eating disorders are tricky. The body dysmorphia that anorexic people have can sometimes seem psychotic - after all, they genuinely see something in the mirror that's in fact not there. I know because I've both seen it in others and been there myself. But since that's a limited thing, very typical for this particular disorder, I guess it "doesn't count". At some point of starvation, anorexia leads to (reversible) brain alterations - maybe those could be connected with possible psychotic symptoms some people might develop? I don't know this, though. Also, I haven't seen psychotic symptoms in patients, even with very severe anorexia until now, so I don't know how common it is and if it's not maybe related to a comorbid psychotic disorder.

 

[TBRS1]

The "up" part of bipolar can be way psychotic.

Trust me on this, if you're not already aware...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The "up" part of bipolar can be way psychotic.

Trust me on this, if you're not already aware...

Sure it can, but it doesn't have to. That's the thing. Mania (as in the "up" phase of bipolar disorder) can include psychotic symptoms, but it doesn't have to.

According to the DSM-V, mania involves a "hyper" mood (often extremely happy/excited/euphoric, but can also be irritable/aggressive), as well as inflated self-esteem, less need to sleep, excessive talking, racing thoughts, sudden "great" ideas, increased sexual drive, and more.

Psychosis involves hallucinations, delusions and disorganized thinking and speech.

Someone can, in a manic state, become psychotic, and the borders are often fluid. Maybe that's what you mean, too.

An example: A manic person might feel absolutely grand, overexcited, doesn't sleep for days while talking excessively to their partner, and suddenly quits their job on impulse because they "just realized" that they have to spend their entire savings right now on this new investment and can't afford to be tied down by their employer, they just now had a way better idea for a business anyway by which they are going to make millions. That's manic but not psychotic.
Now, this person might start saying that they realized about this new investment by the number plates on the passing cars, and the lamps in the bedroom flickered and gave them signs as well, and, by the way, did the partner realize that that new neighbor keeps staring at them, surely he's some agent who's spying on them and wants to take them all down, etc. etc. That's psychosis, in this case added to mania.
(Those examples are, of course, a bit exaggerated but are just intended to show the difference)

 

[Seladon]

I got psychosis from a combination of malnourishment, chronic long-term stress caused by narcissistic abuse and smoking some high THC Cannabis combined. The malnourishment was severe B12 deficiency and when I got shots for it, it helped enormously. I did a lot of mindfulness practices and stimmy things to help. I did not take or need anti-psychotic medication.
It took me a long time to get free of the narcissistic abuse and while I wasn't psychotic for that much of it, I was gaslit A LOT and ended up in breakdown and receiving a complex PTSD diagnosis.

Hello, fellow cobalamin deficiency sufferer! Really happy to hear you recovered and you’re feeling better. The difference in quality of health and life is amazing once we get our injectables, isn’t it? During my lowest deficiency point, everyone around thought I was an awful person with severe personality disorders worse than autism, which I was behaving in line with because my poor body and mind was unable to function.

And there are so many cases of autistic people who also have deficiency or clear deficiency symptoms undiagnosed—makes you wonder why this hasn’t been investigated further.

Do you still take or receive cobalamin, out of interest? Did you have it IM or sub cut? And do you know what the root cause of your deficiency was? (no issue either way, just that some people find out and others never do). There’s usually a few out of dozens of causative factors, so it can be costly in terms of time, energy and money to narrow it down.

Am tentatively thinking of trying again to ask for the relevant tests from doctors to ascertain the cause of mine, but having been fobbed off before I’m not hopeful. Some countries & regions of the world have health boards & professionals who don’t even acknowledge that B12 deficiency has a profound negative effect on health, unbelievably.

 

[Neri]

Hello, fellow cobalamin deficiency sufferer! Really happy to hear you recovered and you’re feeling better. The difference in quality of health and life is amazing once we get our injectables, isn’t it? During my lowest deficiency point, everyone around thought I was an awful person with severe personality disorders worse than autism, which I was behaving in line with because my poor body and mind was unable to function.

And there are so many cases of autistic people who also have deficiency or clear deficiency symptoms undiagnosed—makes you wonder why this hasn’t been investigated further.

Do you still take or receive cobalamin, out of interest? Did you have it IM or sub cut? And do you know what the root cause of your deficiency was? (no issue either way, just that some people find out and others never do). There’s usually a few out of dozens of causative factors, so it can be costly in terms of time, energy and money to narrow it down.

Am tentatively thinking of trying again to ask for the relevant tests from doctors to ascertain the cause of mine, but having been fobbed off before I’m not hopeful. Some countries & regions of the world have health boards & professionals who don’t even acknowledge that B12 deficiency has a profound negative effect on health, unbelievably.

Yes, definitely "Mental Health Care" and, as an extention, even physical "Health Care" is often in the dark ages, in relation to assessing for deficiencies. I was just "lucky" I guess, that it got picked up on because I was pregnant (for the sixth time, so that should give you one clue, as to "cause"). It's pretty easy for me to guess at cause, based on lifestyle.
One. I'd been raised mostly vegetarian.
Two. my abusive ex dictated I also live and raise my children vegetarian (bordering on "vegan".
I had had a restrictive, yet undiagnosed, eating disorder since I was very young, probably what should have been diagnosed as Anorexia.
3. I had had six babies during that very restricted and inadequate diet.
So you see I was half starved.
I think I'm OK now. I eat meat and eggs galore, now.
I eat regularly and high protein, now.

Yes, it is AMAZING how one can feel so freakin' terrible and be struggling SO MUCH. I used to have, during the "psychotic" period, weird static in my head like changing channels on a radio. It clearing up, completely, after having the shots. I has iron and b12 shots concurrently.

I occasion pop a muti B pill and have had the b12 oral drops before. I maybe should invest in some more.

Thank you for sharing your, what did you call it? Cobalamin deficiency story with me! I've never spoken to anyone who can relate to my story of it, and it was a very intense, horrible time for me. So it's nice to feel the "Peer support" vibe with someone!! .

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

I don't really understand the question.

Are you asking if psychosis is linked only to mental disorders?

Psychosis doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with a disorder. Acute high stress/anxiety, abuse/neglect, physical illness or injury, or chemical intoxication can all cause one to see, hear, or perceive things differently from what is present in reality.

 

[Oz67]

That is a very interesting question. I'm in medicine and gathered some experience in (child and adolescent) psychiatry, but I am by no means an expert.

A lot of reasons can cause psychosis. Some examples:
- psychiatric: schizophrenic disorders, schizoaffective disorders, depression/mania with psychotic symptoms, dementia, delirium
- drug-triggered/intoxication, e.g. cannabis, amphetamins, drug-withdrawal, medication side effect (e.g. some medication against Parkinson's disease)
- somatic (physical): infection/dehydration (especially in frail, elderly people), severe lack of sleep, some vitamin-deficiencies, some hormonal disorders, meningitis/encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), any sort of tumour inside the skull
- something in between: e.g. severe eating disorders

We see that psychosis is in no way limited to schizophrenic and other psychotic disorders.

However, I would be careful to assume that "all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders can include psychotic features" - already because in medicine assumptions that involve absolute words like "all", "every", "never", etc. are usually wrong
Seriously: I am not sure. But from what I know and assume, I don't really think so. Autism, as an example of a neurodevelopmental disorder, shouldn't normally lead to psychosis, even in a "severe" form. The person might get a psychosis through other, maybe autism-related things - like severe malnourishment by highly restrictive eating/not drinking, drug-abuse, or a comorbid psychotic disorder - but "just" the autism shouldn't by itself cause psychotic symptoms, if no other trigger occurs. At least that's my take?
Also, e.g. depression can be extremely severe, and yet the person doesn't have to necessarily develop psychotic symptoms. Psychotic symptoms don't happen at some point of "severeness" in primarily non-psychotic mental illnesses, like depression, at least not as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm very eager to learn about these things).
Things like eating disorders are tricky. The body dysmorphia that anorexic people have can sometimes seem psychotic - after all, they genuinely see something in the mirror that's in fact not there. I know because I've both seen it in others and been there myself. But since that's a limited thing, very typical for this particular disorder, I guess it "doesn't count". At some point of starvation, anorexia leads to (reversible) brain alterations - maybe those could be connected with possible psychotic symptoms some people might develop? I don't know this, though. Also, I haven't seen psychotic symptoms in patients, even with very severe anorexia until now, so I don't know how common it is and if it's not maybe related to a comorbid psychotic disorder.

That actually makes sense.

 

[Oz67]

I don't really understand the question.

Are you asking if psychosis is linked only to mental disorders?

Psychosis doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with a disorder. Acute high stress/anxiety, abuse/neglect, physical illness or injury, or chemical intoxication can all cause one to see, hear, or perceive things differently from what is present in reality.

I was talking about all mental, behavioral or neurodevelopmental disorders, and my question is if all of the can include psychotic features if it is severe, that was my original question.