Parents of autistic child restrained by Police to sue

[AloneNotLonely]

If you as a worker are unable to handle a child or are concerned about being harmed then the correct course of action is to make this known to the employer.

I understand, though. Schools are re-education gulags and they are no nicer to the staff then they are to the kids.

One lesson to be learned from this is to not send your kids to school. The other is to not work in a school, or for the government in general. But schools are probably the worst kind of government job there is, aside for maybe the military.

 

[Mary Anne]

If you as a worker are unable to handle a child or are concerned about being harmed then the correct course of action is to make this known to the employer.

I understand, though. Schools are re-education gulags and they are no nicer to the staff then they are to the kids.

One lesson to be learned from this is to not send your kids to school. The other is to not work in a school, or for the government in general. But schools are probably the worst kind of government job there is, aside for maybe the military.

I got bitten working at a city park district. I never worked for the school, but outside connected companies. No government jobs either.

I want to dispel the myth of “schools as gulags.” I don’t even understand that sentence as it was not my experience. I loved learning in school as a child. It was the bullies/ other kids that made my life miserable (in addition to my abusive home life). I loved learning, and going to school to interact with the teachers and learn new things. Except math...I barely graduated because I cannot do most math beyond the basics. School was a way to stay away from a trauma filled home life.

 

[Gritches]

@Dadwith2Autisticsons

Thank you I appreciate your writings as well. Glad to see someone with the sense not to put their kids in public school, aka daycare for the world's worst kids.

See, thing is, I had very similar experiences to the child in question at his age. The same or similar happened to me dozens if not hundreds of times. To this day, I subconsciously crave abuse for psychological validation. So Mary Anne, if you want to talk about PTSD, let's talk about PTSD. I wasn't saying you and other workers weren't traumatized, I quoted you because you can't just have some PTSD or a lot of PTSD - I was ridiculing your obviously infantile understanding of what PTSD is.

Yes, those violent/disruptive incidents happen and are ongoing. I used to have at least one meltdown a day in school. What stopped it was when the special ed teacher tore a ligament in my shoulder, for which I still get regular cortisone shots for the pain. Long story made concise: nobody believed me, I had to manufacture a sling out of tied-together tube socks and ride out the pain until it kinda-healed on its own. It was that incident that made me realize, at 10 years old, that I was alone in the world. That's not frickin healthy for a 10 year old to believe. You want to talk about PTSD? Screw you.

Of course, I'm arguing against a straw man here. Nobody said anything denying that incidents like this happen. You fabricated that because you're backpedaling and you don't know how to defend yourself.

Oh, but here's my sarcastic response to what you said:

Look at me! First, I'm going to try to make nice by paying someone a loaded compliment! Then I'm going to invent something that nobody said because otherwise I don't have a leg to stand on! Then I'm going to shore it up by throwing out some nebulous credentials over the course of a paragraph!

Then I'm going to whinge about how bad I've got it! Yeah, that's what I'm going to choose to limp to the barn with! Woohoo go Autistm Speaks!

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Well spoken. I do always appreciate your writings. However, when I have been bitten by a 12 year old autistic girl, and no report was made where I worked; and I continually hear from parents of autistic children, and clients (one disability bus attendant, one preschool child worker, one primary grade bus driver); in addition to my own family members: 2 policemen, one step-sister overwhelmed teacher (who has taught years as both 1st and third grade); and I AM autistic , AND I work in an enormous city region with autistic adults daily, and have worked in schools with young autistic kids myself....I can tell you that these violent, destructive and emotionally damaging incidents/ meltdown experiences ARE ongoing, and cause PTSD TO us staff! To deny it’s NOT happening, or never happens is plain wrong.

It’s just wrong. I am NOT vilifying anyone. I realize autistic children can not help their meltdowns. But no one protects us staff either. Certainly on these forums, no one understands. I read on these forums how autistic individuals recollect how they kicked, or hit their teachers, and no one says anything! But boy, say something from the other end as the one getting punched in the face, kicked, slapped, or bitten and all of a sudden we are accused of being “haters of autistic people.” It’s just not true.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your different perspective, as I like hearing all positions, based on their unique beliefs and experiences, though I never denied, in any posts I wrote, that such incidents occur in schools. Truly, I personally, do not like seeing anyone in society hurt, much less those in schools, including those who do not see things my way, or that I relate less, too. That can create even worse problems in schools, including more stress on staff or a desire then to be more rigid in policy, and combative in attitude, which can be taken out on the children.

My main focus though is on the harm being done to those students, because if schools and staff do not admit and learn from their wrongs, those violent incidents you mention will continue. If teachers, administration and school officials deny their possible neglect, abuse or other mistakes, or minimize them, and if they do not change their attitudes, ways, or to change those policies, get more staff and get the right training, why should most others have empathy for those adults harmed, who are supposed to be wiser, more caring, and with more self control? And who are getting paid for such?

In other words, to help with any school such behaviors, one needs to get to the root of the meltdowns, and reduce those first through awareness, respect, and then with strong consideration for a change needed by the school system and teachers way of doing things. Otherwise, those behaviors may persist or get worse. We realize it may be hard for teachers to accommodate every child "exactly" as needed, but a few reasonable changes often are needed to better such situations. If the school system and staff have misplaced efforts and anger, this will solve nothing. However, if they are willing to be reasonable, admit wrongs too, and see things from others' perspectives, and act accordingly, then more may be inclined to focus on the needs of the teachers, too.

 

[Mary Anne]

@Dadwith2Autisticsons

Thank you I appreciate your writings as well. Glad to see someone with the sense not to put their kids in public school, aka daycare for the world's worst kids.

See, thing is, I had very similar experiences to the child in question at his age. The same or similar happened to me dozens if not hundreds of times. To this day, I subconsciously crave abuse for psychological validation. So Mary Anne, if you want to talk about PTSD, let's talk about PTSD. I wasn't saying you and other workers weren't traumatized, I quoted you because you can't just have some PTSD or a lot of PTSD - I was ridiculing your obviously infantile understanding of what PTSD is.

Yes, those violent/disruptive incidents happen and are ongoing. I used to have at least one meltdown a day in school. What stopped it was when the special ed teacher tore a ligament in my shoulder, for which I still get regular cortisone shots for the pain. Long story made concise: nobody believed me, I had to manufacture a sling out of tied-together tube socks and ride out the pain until it kinda-healed on its own. It was that incident that made me realize, at 10 years old, that I was alone in the world. That's not frickin healthy for a 10 year old to believe. You want to talk about PTSD? Screw you.

Of course, I'm arguing against a straw man here. Nobody said anything denying that incidents like this happen. You fabricated that because you're backpedaling and you don't know how to defend yourself.

Oh, but here's my sarcastic response to what you said:

Look at me! First, I'm going to try to make nice by paying someone a loaded compliment! Then I'm going to invent something that nobody said because otherwise I don't have a leg to stand on! Then I'm going to shore it up by throwing out some nebulous credentials over the course of a paragraph!

Then I'm going to whinge about how bad I've got it! Yeah, that's what I'm going to choose to limp to the barn with! Woohoo go Autistm Speaks!

So many fabricated accusations! Wow. I have PTSD and it has been a multi- decade legal diagnosis of mine. I also am not an autism speaks member, or whatever, yet you continue to bring that up. Stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world. I am not your enemy. I am not denying your existence.

My own family abuse in 6th grade. My mother breaks my finger in the morning by beating me with a shoe. I go to school and feel I have to lie about it. This was in the 1960s when child abuse was not recognized by anyone. I went to school with injuries all the time. The nurse bandaged me up, and I went to class. I was forced to use my non dominent hand to complete all schoolwork and not allowed extra time those weeks to complete homework. The nuns were brutal, and unkind. I go home, and my mom apologizes, and my dad does absolutely nothing to protect me, or say anything to my mom. I have 18 years of recollections like that and so much more I cannot ever write about here. So please do not tell me about PTSD. I got 18 years of it, and then at least 15 more as an adult with rape, abusive partners, and homelessness. SCREW YOU you know nothing about me, my learning disabilities, or a school system back when there ware no help for those struggling with bullies, home abuse, and no resources to find help. I, my frickin angry aspie enemy, Gritches, was “alone” starting at age 4.

 

[AO1501]

Well spoken. I do always appreciate your writings. However, when I have been bitten by a 12 year old autistic girl, and no report was made where I worked; and I continually hear from parents of autistic children, and clients (one disability bus attendant, one preschool child worker, one primary grade bus driver); in addition to my own family members: 2 policemen, one step-sister overwhelmed teacher (who has taught years as both 1st and third grade); and I AM autistic , AND I work in an enormous city region with autistic adults daily, and have worked in schools with young autistic kids myself....I can tell you that these violent, destructive and emotionally damaging incidents/ meltdown experiences ARE ongoing, and cause PTSD TO us staff! To deny it’s NOT happening, or never happens is plain wrong.

It’s just wrong. I am NOT vilifying anyone. I realize autistic children can not help their meltdowns. But no one protects us staff either. Certainly on these forums, no one understands. I read on these forums how autistic individuals recollect how they kicked, or hit their teachers, and no one says anything! But boy, say something from the other end as the one getting punched in the face, kicked, slapped, or bitten and all of a sudden we are accused of being “haters of autistic people.” It’s just not true.

I appreciate what you are saying, really I do. Yet one point really must be made here: That autistic children are not in classrooms by choice, teachers, police officers, workers who come into contact with autistic children are all there by their own choice. An autistic child cannot walk away, cannot leave, cannot escape. Workers can do any or all of these things. Autistic children have no control over their environment or their behaviour, workers do.

These might seem to be moot points, after all someone has to work in classrooms, or police the streets, or do social work etc, but those who make a choice to do this do so knowing they are going to face a range of issues and problems. Autistic children do not.

It isn't that I don't have sympathy with teachers and public service workers - I was a teacher myself, my ex was a teacher, and I spent a lot of time in her classroom - but at each moment of every day, every teacher in every classroom exercises choice about how they behave, how they react, how they observe and think. Autistic children don't. Sadly, even the best of teachers get it wrong sometimes, yet we should cut them some slack because they do a hard job and get little support.

But if an autistic child gets it wrong even once, he/she is vilified, traumatised and gets no slack at all, yet just to get from day to day, many have an impossible job, and in many cases have no support at all.

As I say, it is not that I do not understand the point you make, just that I think it too easy to turn a blind eye to some of the realities of these impossible situations.

(Edited to remove an irrelevant quote from another poster).

 

[Mary Anne]

Technically no, it is not heresy. Heresay would be a witness who repeats what someone else has said, not what the witness him/herself has personally witnessed.


I appreciate what you are saying, really I do. Yet one point really must be made here: That autistic children are not in classrooms by choice, teachers, police officers, workers who come into contact with autistic children are all there by their own choice. An autistic child cannot walk away, cannot leave, cannot escape. Workers can do any or all of these things. Autistic children have no control over their environment or their behaviour, workers do.

These might seem to be moot points, after all someone has to work in classrooms, or police the streets, or do social work etc, but those who make a choice to do this do so knowing they are going to face a range of issues and problems. Autistic children do not.

It isn't that I don't have sympathy with teachers and public service workers - I was a teacher myself, my ex was a teacher, and I spent a lot of time in her classroom - but at each moment of every day, every teacher in every classroom exercises choice about how they behave, how they react, how they observe and think. Autistic children don't. Sadly, even the best of teachers get it wrong sometimes, yet we should cut them some slack because they do a hard job and get little support.

But if an autistic child gets it wrong even once, he/she is vilified, traumatised and gets no slack at all, yet just to get from day to day, many have an impossible job, and in many cases have no support at all.

As I say, it is not that I do not understand the point you make, just that I think it too easy to turn a blind eye to some of the realities of these impossible situations.

To this very day, people get hired (or signed on as volunteers) to “work with young children.” Some, who love children volunteer in too many positions to list here. They certainly are not trained to work with mainstreamed special needs children. Their idea of working “with children” never even brings a concept or the knowledge of working around special needs kids into the mix. I am talking about when teens are hired to lead summer camps, or volunteer docents work at museums, or even volunteer parents working on the buses as assistants, or as lunch room att ndants.

The whole entire system is fraught with people of all ages who have an interest in working around children. These people are never prepared for the ONE child who might punch their lights out in a meltdown moment. The system to this day does not train everyone to recognize those autistic moments just before the storm. Society as a general rule knows nothing about autism. And if we discuss any it it....try to figure these things out, and try and find solutions, there are attacks from angry people like Gritches, who want to shut down any dialogue. I thank YOU for being rational.

Many people who have some kind of legally diagnosed disability, become bus drivers, and or low paid bus attendant, work at parks, etc. They might not “have a choice” in where they work, and it might be the ONLY job they can get. It’s possible that they got their job with governmental help too such as WIPA or TASC. I do also know that police officers, and security guards are assigned as to where they will work and that assignment can change regularly. Police officers might have different location changes throughout their days. So really, is it about choice?

Teachers also are at the mercy of school district changes from year to year. My stepsister taught third grade for 35 years in one school , and then was switched to 1st grade. It caused a huge amount of problems, but she could not quit the school. Teachers also are ever forced to take on more students in crowded classrooms without aides (who are often volunteer parents of NT children), and ever shortening budgets, and with mainstreamed kids with challenges. Burnout is increasing in all these high stress jobs.

 

[Gritches]

So many fabricated accusations! Wow. I have PTSD and it has been a multi- decade legal diagnosis of mine. I also am not an autism speaks member, or whatever, yet you continue to bring that up. Stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world. I am not your enemy. I am not denying your existence.

My own family abuse in 6th grade. My mother breaks my finger in the morning by beating me with a shoe. I go to school and feel I have to lie about it. This was in the 1960s when child abuse was not recognized by anyone. I went to school with injuries all the time. The nurse bandaged me up, and I went to class. I was forced to use my non dominent hand to complete all schoolwork and not allowed extra time those weeks to complete homework. The nuns were brutal, and unkind. I go home, and my mom apologizes, and my dad does absolutely nothing to protect me, or say anything to my mom. I have 18 years of recollections like that and so much more I cannot ever write about here. So please do not tell me about PTSD. I got 18 years of it, and then at least 15 more as an adult with rape, abusive partners, and homelessness. SCREW YOU you know nothing about me, my learning disabilities, or a school system back when there ware no help for those struggling with bullies, home abuse, and no resources to find help. I, my frickin angry aspie enemy, Gritches, was “alone” starting at age 4.

I can almost see your bottom lip quivering.

I'm not angry in the slightest, "stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world". Because you also know nothing about me. We can swap horror stories, every Aspie has them, or we can look at the facts: you are an Autism Speaks supporter. I never said you were a member, "stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world". Just that you made clear that you support them is enough.

And don't misunderstand the dynamic here. I am not your enemy. You are my plaything. "Stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world". You should really just stop, because I'm going to toss your cookies every single time.

But let's keep going shall we: I'm not denying that you have PTSD. I'm saying you don't understand it. You keep doing this thing, where I've shut you down at every angle so you make up something new. There is no way you just don't understand what I'm saying. You must be being deliberately obtuse for the purposes of twisting my words in this crude and simplistic way because otherwise you don't have anything to say for yourself. So yeah, "stop projecting onto me your own anger at the world", because it's just weak and pathetic.

You've been backpedaling for hours, trying to deny the things you've said, making unverifiable claims of credibility while earlier you villified the kid because of a lack of the ability to verify his history. In summary, you keep contradicting your own values, in such a way that you have higher expectations of everybody but yourself. You got nothing, just sit down.

 

[AO1501]

@mary Ann, I don't agree that Gritches wants to shut down any dialogue - in fact I think it clear that he/she (apologies, Gritches, I ought to know, but don't) is trying to engage in the dialogue, just not in agreement with you.

That said, the points you make are just as valid, and it is certainly true that workers (and volunteers, as you rightly point out) are largely untrained and often totally unprepared for the experiences they face. But it doesn't change the fact that they are there, paid or otherwise, because they choose to be, they don't have to be there, doing that.

I am grateful that most of them do make that choice, and society as a whole needs them to make that choice, but the fact they are largely untrained and unprepared means that when an incident of the kind being discussed here actually does arise, their actions in response often will make the situation worse, because they don't know how to make it better. That escalation will be to the detriment of the autistic child, and the child's reactions will inevitably lead to it being blamed for what has happened, because it's the child's behaviour that gets examined in these situations far more than the adult's.

What we clearly agree on is that there should be far better training, and far better understanding of how autism impacts children (and indeed, everyone). Only by advancing that understanding will incidents like this one stand a better chance of being de-escalated before they get to the point of blame, punishment or restraint. Until that happens, I tend to the view that firstly, autistic children are, first and foremost, children, who largely can't reasonably be held responsible for their actions, but the workers around them are adults, who reasonably can and should be.

Which is not to say we vilify the workers instead of the child - we shouldn't vilify either.

 

[Mary Anne]

@mary Ann, I don't agree that Gritches wants to shut down any dialogue - in fact I think it clear that he/she (apologies, Gritches, I ought to know, but don't) is trying to engage in the dialogue, just not in agreement with you.

That said, the points you make are just as valid, and it is certainly true that workers (and volunteers, as you rightly point out) are largely untrained and often totally unprepared for the experiences they face. But it doesn't change the fact that they are there, paid or otherwise, because they choose to be, they don't have to be there, doing that.

I am grateful that most of them do make that choice, and society as a whole needs them to make that choice, but the fact they are largely untrained and unprepared means that when an incident of the kind being discussed here actually does arise, their actions in response often will make the situation worse, because they don't know how to make it better. That escalation will be to the detriment of the autistic child, and the child's reactions will inevitably lead to it being blamed for what has happened, because it's the child's behaviour that gets examined in these situations far more than the adult's.

What we clearly agree on is that there should be far better training, and far better understanding of how autism impacts children (and indeed, everyone). Only by advancing that understanding will incidents like this one stand a better chance of being de-escalated before they get to the point of blame, punishment or restraint. Until that happens, I tend to the view that firstly, autistic children are, first and foremost, children, who largely can't reasonably be held responsible for their actions, but the workers around them are adults, who reasonably can and should be.

Which is not to say we vilify the workers instead of the child - we shouldn't vilify either.

Gritches expressed extremely hostily towards me and does not seem to want to engage in reasonable discussion. He hurts untrue accusations and fabricated projections at me. Unlike you, who can discuss and listen objectively, and calmly.

Autism stats say 1% of the population has it. Probably way more prevelant than that, but really, that low of a % would mean that society and companies are not jumping at the change to quickly learn or teach about dealing with autistic challenges. One also cannot “choose” not to work with autistic children because legally it’s against the law to discriminate. Yet no real training is given. The training necessary takes more than an hour Visio, or a seminar. It’s an entire college master degree curriculum. It’s an entire parent’s life experience with their own autistic child.

How do these challenging children have such long incident reports? I will say that many incidents go unreported because the facility or company does not want the scrutiny or legal ramifications. This makes the workers at the mercy of the challenging behaviors. . Parents are quick to sue, whereas the worker will just endure the injuries and shut up to keep their jobs. The company hides the incidents due to being fearful of media and parental investigations.

When one is punched with the strength and force of a prize fighter, or bitten hard to the bone right after a sweet smile from a 12 year old girl in a wheel chair, one does not immediately think of that perpetrator as “a child.” Immediate some adults have poor impulse control - hence the bad behavior as retaliation to the child. I am not condoning it, but I do understand how sitting upon a child, or handcuffs come out. Those are lesser actions of the utterly human response of fighting back.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

@Dadwith2Autisticsons

Thank you I appreciate your writings as well. Glad to see someone with the sense not to put their kids in public school, aka daycare for the world's worst kids.

See, thing is, I had very similar experiences to the child in question at his age. The same or similar happened to me dozens if not hundreds of times. To this day, I subconsciously crave abuse for psychological validation. So Mary Anne, if you want to talk about PTSD, let's talk about PTSD. I wasn't saying you and other workers weren't traumatized, I quoted you because you can't just have some PTSD or a lot of PTSD - I was ridiculing your obviously infantile understanding of what PTSD is.

Yes, those violent/disruptive incidents happen and are ongoing. I used to have at least one meltdown a day in school. What stopped it was when the special ed teacher tore a ligament in my shoulder, for which I still get regular cortisone shots for the pain. Long story made concise: nobody believed me, I had to manufacture a sling out of tied-together tube socks and ride out the pain until it kinda-healed on its own. It was that incident that made me realize, at 10 years old, that I was alone in the world. That's not frickin healthy for a 10 year old to believe. You want to talk about PTSD? Screw you.

Of course, I'm arguing against a straw man here. Nobody said anything denying that incidents like this happen. You fabricated that because you're backpedaling and you don't know how to defend yourself.

Oh, but here's my sarcastic response to what you said:

Look at me! First, I'm going to try to make nice by paying someone a loaded compliment! Then I'm going to invent something that nobody said because otherwise I don't have a leg to stand on! Then I'm going to shore it up by throwing out some nebulous credentials over the course of a paragraph!

Then I'm going to whinge about how bad I've got it! Yeah, that's what I'm going to choose to limp to the barn with! Woohoo go Autistm Speaks!

For you Gritches, and anyone else here abused and neglected in the school, or even at home or any other setting, I very sorry you had and have to go through that trauma. There will be professional others that try to either shift the blame, play victim themselves, deny the existence of such abuse, or do coverups, for their best interests, and I feel very bad about that suffering you all have faced. I wish I could do more, other than what I said in this forum here, and in my other writings elsewhere that details various entity wrongs.

Unfortunately, abuse and neglect happens too much in society, though there are some persons who do care or would show true care, and who either do understand, would try to understand, and who can see these truths, and would believe in the rights to get that truth out, so keep fighting for your rights and trying to find persons who would see the good in you, but who would be glad to listen to your any needs and help you in any way if you desired that.

So, everyone here, please keep speaking the truth as you see things, until your message is not only heard, but until those other entities take responsibility, and the needed changes in society is made. I do not know any of your situations in detail, but I do know you all likely have had traumatic situations, by no fault of your own, some expressed and some not, and I know I think in many ways like many of you, so keep fighting for your rights, and things will be ok as can be.

On a side note, if anyone here needs any additional direction, support, advice or any other help, please feel free to write me privately anytime, too, as after the homeschool year begins here in September, much of my focus will be there, and I will be posting less on the forum. Thanks.

 

[Mary Anne]

For you Gritches, and anyone else here abused and neglected in the school, or even at home or any other setting, I very sorry you had and have to go through that trauma. There will be professional others that try to either shift the blame, play victim themselves, deny the existence of such abuse, or do coverups, for their best interests, and I feel very bad about that suffering you all have faced. I wish I could do more, other than what I said in this forum here, and in my other writings elsewhere that details various entity wrongs.

Unfortunately, abuse and neglect happens too much in society, though there are some persons who do care or would show true care, and who either do understand, would try to understand, and who can see these truths, and would believe in the rights to get that truth out, so keep fighting for your rights and trying to find persons who would see the good in you, but who would be glad to listen to your any needs and help you in any way if you desired that.

So, everyone here, please keep speaking the truth as you see things, until your message is not only heard, but until those other entities take responsibility, and the needed changes in society is made. I do not know any of your situations in detail, but I do know you all likely have had traumatic situations, by no fault of your own, some expressed and some not, and I know I think in many ways like many of you, so keep fighting for your rights, and things will be ok as can be.

On a side note, if anyone here needs any additional direction, support, advice or any other help, please feel free to write me privately anytime, too, as after the homeschool year begins here in Seltember, much of my focus will be there, and I will be posting less on the forum. Thanks.

Yes, but not one person is saying to the staff that DO understand, or care...that they can be physically abused too. One can BE autistic, come from unspeakable abuse, AND love and understand meltdown kids, and STILL get repeatedly punched, bitten, scraped, and slapped - which IS “abuse.” I just want someone to admit that. No one does.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Yes, but not one person is saying to the staff that DO understand, or care...that they can be physically abused too. One can BE autistic, come from unspeakable abuse, AND love and understand meltdown kids, and STILL get repeatedly punched, bitten, scraped, and slapped - which IS “abuse.” I just want someone to admit that. No one does.

ok, I understand Mary Anne what you said, so I will say again, in a different way, as I stated that a few times, not so specifically though. For any school staff member who was harmed by no fault whatsoever of their own, meaning they did not ever physically or mentally abuse that student, or neglect their needs, of course it is reasonable to say that staff member should not be harmed violently.

But, again, in many of the very severe cases, the school system or staff member could have did some wrong prior, through some failed communication, or through some standard policy, procedure, or because of limited or no training, or bad attitude, or because of some neglect or abuse that is being denied or covered up.

Should I call the police on my child if he does a quick bite, when a need cannot be met instantly? Of course not. Being a special needs teacher and parent means not only being caring and unbiased but willing to put up with certain things, or to bend actions and rules to make things not so prolonged or severe. Yes, it requires strength, level headedness and sacrifices. We need more teachers like that.

Things like a quick bite by a sensory loaded pupil or one who views actions or rules differently and unfairly, thus with yelling or crying, or throwing an object, that can happen, but if a severe or prolonged meltdown occurs, or with much damage, the common question is why? Something is going on there. Some needs are likely not being met.

So, of course an investigation should be done to find out the truth, and if some wrong occurred, for accountability, and to see if that class/teacher is a fit. We as parents never have had to call the police on our children, and never would, as meltdowns are few and not of long duration, and we cannot blame them for things out of their control, or if we messed up somehow. We often look at ourselves what we could do better. We though know their needs well, anticipate things, and I have internal strength to handle stress, and we allow flexibility. So, if the school staff is not trained well, or cannot do or be these things, or cannot handle those things, or if the school staff cannot show true care, and flexibility, of course they need to work at a different type of job, so others with those strengths and abilities can get employed there.

 

[AO1501]

Gritches expressed extremely hostily towards me and does not seem to want to engage in reasonable discussion. He hurts untrue accusations and fabricated projections at me. Unlike you, who can discuss and listen objectively, and calmly.

Autism stats say 1% of the population has it. Probably way more prevelant than that, but really, that low of a % would mean that society and companies are not jumping at the change to quickly learn or teach about dealing with autistic challenges. One also cannot “choose” not to work with autistic children because legally it’s against the law to discriminate. Yet no real training is given. The training necessary takes more than an hour Visio, or a seminar. It’s an entire college master degree curriculum. It’s an entire parent’s life experience with their own autistic child.

How do these challenging children have such long incident reports? I will say that many incidents go unreported because the facility or company does not want the scrutiny or legal ramifications. This makes the workers at the mercy of the challenging behaviors. . Parents are quick to sue, whereas the worker will just endure the injuries and shut up to keep their jobs. The company hides the incidents due to being fearful of media and parental investigations.

When one is punched with the strength and force of a prize fighter, or bitten hard to the bone right after a sweet smile from a 12 year old girl in a wheel chair, one does not immediately think of that perpetrator as “a child.” Immediate some adults have poor impulse control - hence the bad behavior as retaliation to the child. I am not condoning it, but I do understand how sitting upon a child, or handcuffs come out. Those are lesser actions of the utterly human response of fighting back.

I'm not going to debate your thoughts on Gritches' contributions to the discussion, or your thoughts on their value, other than to say I think every word is as valid as yours (or mine).

In terms of your thoughts on this incident and others of the kind, I can only really repeat what I said before, that autistic children, whether perceived as children, or even as autistic, have no choices and little or no control. Expecting them to behave in any way other than the way they do behave is pointless and counter productive.

And yes, those who work with these children do have a choice. They can choose a different line of work if they don't find themselves adequately prepared to handle the realities of the job they face. I know, for example, that if I were not capable of handling every aspect of the job I am paid to do, as complex and extensive as that is, I would either be replaced by my employer, or feel that I really needed to try something less challenging.

As I said before, you are right that training is woefully inadequate, but that is not the fault of the autistic child, yet through that lack of adequate training, as previously stated, incidents end up being escalated by the poorly trained adult, to the detriment of the autistic child.

There is no possible excuse for why this should be acceptable. None. Blaming innocent victims is not socially or intellectually acceptable. And while I have no wish to ignore your experiences of violence and attack at the hands of presumably autistic persons, it remains fundamentally true that these persons are victims, even if only of autism - though many also as a result of society's attitude towards them, a dire level of woefully inadequate support, and a tendency of authority figures to fail their genuine needs.

As the father of a daughter on the spectrum, I have seen these failures in action so many times that I could write a book on the subject. And with all due respect to you and your experiences, the message I would give to teachers and police officers, and others who find themselves acting in authority over autistic persons of any age is that if they can't stand the heat, they really do need to get out of the kitchen before they do harm.

A final thought is that the fact the prevalence of autism in society as a whole is relatively low (estimated by the CDC at 1 on 59 births in the US, for example), is not an excuse for poor training, it's evidence greater training is essential. It means that there are millions of people in the US who are on the spectrum - millions of people in this country alone who deserve an equality of treatment they fail to get. We should not ignore that.

 

[AO1501]

Yes, but not one person is saying to the staff that DO understand, or care...that they can be physically abused too. One can BE autistic, come from unspeakable abuse, AND love and understand meltdown kids, and STILL get repeatedly punched, bitten, scraped, and slapped - which IS “abuse.” I just want someone to admit that. No one does.

Perhaps the reason nobody 'admits' that is because nobody is suggesting that being treated that way is ok.

 

[Mary Anne]

Ok, here is my final summary. Hundreds of thousands of workers should quit their jobs, even though they were hired based on their qualifications (or lack there of). Maybe they wanted to work with children, or maybe it was the only job available. Most did not expect that some children would be challenging beyond their wildest expectations, experiences, or trainings. These workers (or volunteers- including parents) were shocked to be injured. They had no where to go for help, due to company fears of litigation, or poor management.

Parents, as I said have years invested in their children in addition to unconditional love. No amount of “training” matches that.

 

[Mary Anne]

In addition, by the assessments posted above, those who work for a mere two or three hours a couple times a week with children should not do so if they have not been trained to fully understand the needs of every type of special needs child (which would take years). This will end all volunteerism, and desire to work with children in a compassionate and loving way, due to lack of education. Is this what we really want?

Everyone here talks only of the school classroom and fully dedicated teachers, but what about all the other people who are involved in children’s daily lives? Would you discount their services also? Unless parents can monitor their children 24/7, chances are someone else will be interacting. It could be the lunch room lady at minimum wage. It could be the janitor at the school. Everyone cannot possibly have the knowledge (let alone the acceptance) to understand special needs kids. It’s not realistic in the world we know in 2018. It would be nice.

I started working with special needs kids in 1973 as a teenager.

 

[Mr Allen]

With respect @Mary Anne I hate the term "special needs", contrary to popular opinion, disabled kids and kids with "problems" are NOT "special" (that word still means retarded in some cases), they just need extra support to manage their own lives.

 

[Mary Anne]

With respect @Mary Anne I hate the term "special needs", contrary to popular opinion, disabled kids and kids with "problems" are NOT "special" (that word still means retarded in some cases), they just need extra support to manage their own lives.

Others here used that term to distinguish autistic kids from other kids. All children have needs, but those with autism usually have greater needs and challenges especially in the developmental years. How would you distinguish them apart in a conversation? We do not use that R word anymore (except for bullying kids) in the US, but I volunteered in the 1970s for 2 years at a “School for the Mentally Retarded.” It was on their building sign. The word has been politically incorrect for several decades now.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Others here used that term to distinguish autistic kids from other kids. All children have needs, but those with autism usually have greater needs and challenges especially in the developmental years. How would you distinguish them apart in a conversation? We do not use that R word anymore (except for bullying kids) in the US, but I volunteered in the 1970s for 2 years at a “School for the Mentally Retarded.” It was on their building sign. The word has been politically incorrect for several decades now.

I agree with Mary Anne here, that using the words 'special needs' is certainly more acceptable in society and respectful than other past terms. We use these words on occasion as parents, to make sure when they received past medical services, that those providers knew not to judge badly certain behaviors, delays, and limitations, and to make sure any special accommodation or alternative treatment request was considered and given, if we requested such. The word 'special' in the US is seen generally as a positive term.

Like Mary Anne says, all students have needs, but those with conditions may require certain unique needs or more needs, depending on the situation. If we don't see those with these extra or unique needs as 'special,' then that suggests to me two things: that that student was on par with everyone else regarding needs, and thus should not get extra consideration regarding such special requests, and it suggests that such students should never be treated differently. That could pressure those students to think, act or feel like everyone else, which in most all cases they could not because of a condition. This would cause more meltdowns, class disruptions, teacher anxieties if they could not deviate from a program plan, etc. Seems like a recipe for disaster.