"Just make friends!" Most unhelpful advice ever?

[SunnyDay16]

Call a friend, or some friends, is pretty common advice given on sites talking about dealing with depression. It's not particularly helpful advice even if you happen to have friends. In all likelihood, you will just find out how quickly they avoid you when you say you're depressed.

To play devil's advocate, it can be pretty draining to deal with someone who is depressed. Of course it's not any fault of the individual's, but it is a mental illness that affects everyone involved. I've dealt with difficult depression before so I know. I don't like telling friends or family in detail about it because not only will they not be able to help, but I don't want to burden them with it.

Of course I'll still be honest with them how I am if they ask but I try to keep it to myself as much as possible, or I'll talk about it with a therapist.

 

[SunnyDay16]

my expectations for friends is fairly high, but its very few: be nice, be reliable and be a good friend. if you can do all three, you are good. and, note that i avoided saying what reliable means, or what being a good friend means, as there are no set standards there.

I'm not saying you're in the wrong or anything, so I am sorry if I came across that way.

What I meant was that expectations should match the individual friend's personality and situation. Some people are just unreliable, as it's part of their personality; no matter what you say to them or how many times you confront them they will not commit. Some people aren't big on texting or talking on the phone, so it's not really reasonable to expect them to text or call all the time.

 

[Mathalamus]

I'm not saying you're in the wrong or anything, so I am sorry if I came across that way.

What I meant was that expectations should match the individual friend's personality and situation. Some people are just unreliable, as it's part of their personality; no matter what you say to them or how many times you confront them they will not commit. Some people aren't big on texting or talking on the phone, so it's not really reasonable to expect them to text or call all the time.

if that happens, i just get rid of them to make room for friends that are reliable.

 

[PATILYN]

I am actually so glad to read this post. I am NT. I have struggled to know how to be a friend to someone who is realizes he may be on the spectrum, doesn't really want to talk about it further, and has not investigated further.

I am full of questions for the community here about this.

I have a friend who considers me to be very special. He has told me that he loves me. In fact we had even wondered whether we might be able to be more than friends. However, we took that subject off the table.

He talks about wanting friends and companionship; however he also admits to have no ability to reach out. He told me about his lifelong friend who he has not seen or had contact with for over a year.

When he lived locally, I always included him in everything I possibly could and he always accepted. However he could never organize or arrange. Or if he did do something he would completely forget to ask me or anyone for that matter … to participate as friends.

He can't keep up contact and in fact goes silent for weeks. He will occasionally (like maybe twice in six months) drop me a note, I will respond, and then that's it. No more. He recently noticed that it was my birthday, and actually took the time to send me a text msg to wish me the best. This was the first time I have heard from him since the middle of summer. Of course I thanked him … and again … no response.

Truthfully, as much as I know it is not a personal affront to me, I rather thought that my pushing for contact seemed to be an annoyance rather than something he enjoyed. As a result, I have now rather left it up to him.


I'm not saying it's bad to try and make friends. It's always good to try and socialize with people, but I wish that the advice to try to "make more friends" wasn't given so often, because the majority of people looking for social advice don't know how to really make friends. Or they're unlucky enough to be surrounded by people who don't want their friendship because, as I said, it takes two people to make a friendship work.

I agree that it takes two people to make a friendship be more than just a title.

I know that no two people are the same. That we each approach friendships in our own way but I am bewildered how there can be a longing for friends and yet when a friend who you value and love is right in front of you, either in person or online, that the urge to connect seems to just be soit elusive?

It's now the holiday season and I am again this year sending off a small package and a card for him … I may or may not (likely not) receive confirmation that he has received it. He will value it, like all the gifts I have given him … I know that from seeing personally that he uses and cares for what I have given him, but he will fail to tell me so.

So I guess there is the divide … while he has articulated his view of me, and even though as a NT, I know as you say, how to be a friend just by "osmosis", it is hard for me to be his friend by "osmosis" and that lack of some kind of reciprocal contact makes it difficult. Nonetheless, I have accepted that this must all be okay with him. That my expectations now of this relationships ... are to just carry on … as it is.

But if I thought for a minute that he felt as you do, and that he wanted more from me, and I could be more available, I would be happy to do so as well. I just hope that my NT brain has not made me blind to other ways to connect.

I would value anyone's comments on this …[/quote]

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

To play devil's advocate, it can be pretty draining to deal with someone who is depressed. Of course it's not any fault of the individual's, but it is a mental illness that affects everyone involved. I've dealt with difficult depression before so I know. I don't like telling friends or family in detail about it because not only will they not be able to help, but I don't want to burden them with it.

Of course I'll still be honest with them how I am if they ask but I try to keep it to myself as much as possible, or I'll talk about it with a therapist.

Wasn't questioning the validity or moral position of the response, just noting the general response. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be saddled with anyone's problems either. Just noting the useful nature of the advice presented in various places.

 

[SunnyDay16]

I am actually so glad to read this post. I am NT. I have struggled to know how to be a friend to someone who is realizes he may be on the spectrum, doesn't really want to talk about it further, and has not investigated further.

I am full of questions for the community here about this.

I have a friend who considers me to be very special. He has told me that he loves me. In fact we had even wondered whether we might be able to be more than friends. However, we took that subject off the table.

He talks about wanting friends and companionship; however he also admits to have no ability to reach out. He told me about his lifelong friend who he has not seen or had contact with for over a year.

When he lived locally, I always included him in everything I possibly could and he always accepted. However he could never organize or arrange. Or if he did do something he would completely forget to ask me or anyone for that matter … to participate as friends.

He can't keep up contact and in fact goes silent for weeks. He will occasionally (like maybe twice in six months) drop me a note, I will respond, and then that's it. No more. He recently noticed that it was my birthday, and actually took the time to send me a text msg to wish me the best. This was the first time I have heard from him since the middle of summer. Of course I thanked him … and again … no response.

Truthfully, as much as I know it is not a personal affront to me, I rather thought that my pushing for contact seemed to be an annoyance rather than something he enjoyed. As a result, I have now rather left it up to him.


I'm not saying it's bad to try and make friends. It's always good to try and socialize with people, but I wish that the advice to try to "make more friends" wasn't given so often, because the majority of people looking for social advice don't know how to really make friends. Or they're unlucky enough to be surrounded by people who don't want their friendship because, as I said, it takes two people to make a friendship work.

I agree that it takes two people to make a friendship be more than just a title.

I know that no two people are the same. That we each approach friendships in our own way but I am bewildered how there can be a longing for friends and yet when a friend who you value and love is right in front of you, either in person or online, that the urge to connect seems to just be soit elusive?

It's now the holiday season and I am again this year sending off a small package and a card for him … I may or may not (likely not) receive confirmation that he has received it. He will value it, like all the gifts I have given him … I know that from seeing personally that he uses and cares for what I have given him, but he will fail to tell me so.

So I guess there is the divide … while he has articulated his view of me, and even though as a NT, I know as you say, how to be a friend just by "osmosis", it is hard for me to be his friend by "osmosis" and that lack of some kind of reciprocal contact makes it difficult. Nonetheless, I have accepted that this must all be okay with him. That my expectations now of this relationships ... are to just carry on … as it is.

But if I thought for a minute that he felt as you do, and that he wanted more from me, and I could be more available, I would be happy to do so as well. I just hope that my NT brain has not made me blind to other ways to connect.

I would value anyone's comments on this …

[/QUOTE]

First off you sound like a great friend, so he is lucky to have you by his side.

Does he seem already satisfied with his friendships? Or does he seem to want more? He might not be "longing" for anything and is happy with the bonds he already has.

I don't believe NTs know how to be a friend by osmosis, because as you said everybody has their own subjective definition of what it means to "be" a friend. What I meant was that NTs tend to automatically absorb the social rules and norms, thus making it easier for them to find friends.

We aspies tend to have a hard time taking hints or cues that the person wants more from us, so it's always good to be direct about what you want without being accusatory or mean. Have you tried telling your friend how you feel? Like you could tell him, "Sometimes I feel we could be closer if you reached out to me more and told me how you were more often."

Maybe his definition of a close friend is one who he texts every now and going to the events he is invited to. He could be an introvert who likes having lots of his own time and space.

 

[PATILYN]

First off you sound like a great friend, so he is lucky to have you by his side.

Does he seem already satisfied with his friendships? Or does he seem to want more? He might not be "longing" for anything and is happy with the bonds he already has.

I don't believe NTs know how to be a friend by osmosis, because as you said everybody has their own subjective definition of what it means to "be" a friend. What I meant was that NTs tend to automatically absorb the social rules and norms, thus making it easier for them to find friends.

We aspies tend to have a hard time taking hints or cues that the person wants more from us, so it's always good to be direct about what you want without being accusatory or mean. Have you tried telling your friend how you feel? Like you could tell him, "Sometimes I feel we could be closer if you reached out to me more and told me how you were more often."

Maybe his definition of a close friend is one who he texts every now and going to the events he is invited to. He could be an introvert who likes having lots of his own time and space.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for replying to me. We like each other. I enjoy him ... I feel lucky too.

I asked him to try to show the initiative of contacting me but he said he is awful at it. He said he would promise to try. He did send me a two line msg in July. I responded. He never carried the conversation further. He then msg me last week for my bday. Again, I thanked him. He told me once he had to have appts to keep in contact with his parents when he was away from the city they live in. And when they were on holidays he told me he felt relieved to not have to make that weekly contact. I tried doing that ... having weekly contact ....for several months with him too ... it worked to a certain extent. However, I finally told him I felt sad to not hear from him for some FaceTime, but no movement from him to make the effort. As a result, I have backed off. Except for special occasions, like Xmas where I have just sent a small package via mail. I felt I didn’t want to be categorized as a burden.

I believe he is lonely. He says he doesn’t want to live alone. But he does. He says he’d like a life. So I feel that he is wanting something. He accepts social invites but that’s it.

So because of the value he says he puts on me, I have to assume it is a lack of ability to reach out to me ... together with what, I am not sure?

I am okay with it ... And I understand what you mean about understanding the social norms. Yes, it was sometimes hard ... with him and I wish it were different but I can be this kind of friend.

 

[SunnyDay16]

@PATILYN
You told him how you felt, so you've really done all you can do. He could be lonely and he could want closer relationships but it's going to be hard for him to find that if he isn't able to initiate or put himself out there to some degree. You've been very patient and caring with him, which is good. I would just keep doing what you have been doing and maybe distance yourself a bit if it's really getting to you.

I doubt you're a burden to him. It seems to me this really has nothing to do with you. He might have some anxiety about reaching out to people or past experiences, but he has to work on that if he wants more relationships.

 

[Shamar]

When you're feeling down about yourself and such, sometimes the advice to just make more friends will be given to you. And, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but is it only me who sees the advice incredibly unhelpful?

Not only is it vague, but it's not like making friends comes naturally to everyone, especially us aspies. There's a reason why we tend to be socially excluded and easy targets for bullying. We don't "get" all the little social rules and norms that NTs apparently know by osmosis and even if we do learn them it's not like friends will just fall into our lap. It takes two to make a friendship happen, but it's hard to actually find people who
a. Want to be friends with us
b. Are willing to make plans with us and actually keep those plans
c. We enjoy being in their company and they enjoy being with us without trying to change us or who we are

And if you live in a smaller town? Forget it. It's going to be even harder.

I'm not saying it's bad to try and make friends. It's always good to try and socialize with people, but I wish that the advice to try to "make more friends" wasn't given so often, because the majority of people looking for social advice don't know how to really make friends. Or they're unlucky enough to be surrounded by people who don't want their friendship because, as I said, it takes two people to make a friendship work.

Actually, I have to say that is only the second most unhelpful piece of advice I ever heard. However, you hit the nail on the head with your description of the problem. As you said, for an aspie to make friends is extremely difficult, even assuming that the person has the emotional and mental capacity to have friends in the first place. I certainly don't.

We are in a really tough position. Given that the definition of autism is pretty much difficulty or the inability to socialize or interact with other people, this kind of advice is, as you say, useless. For us, this advice needs to be packaged with instructions to accomplish it. I have been told to make some friends, and when I reply "How do I go about making friends?" I get some of the most dumbfounded looks you can imagine. Try it, it can actually be entertaining!

In case anyone is curious, the most useless advice I ever received was when I was in a severe, suicidal depression and was told "Just cheer up and be happy."

 

[Shamar]

My dad was one of those who never met a person that was not his friend. I remember a couple times him getting another car to pull over to the side of the highway because of their license plate and start a conversation with them. And people liked him everywhere he went. When he died I knew I wouldn't miss him but as they played a video with pictures from his life, I cried because I never knew that side of him like everyone else did. And that video said more than anyone else would know - none of the pictures included his family. And that was pretty much his life. Sometimes I feel sad for him because it's his family that could have given him the most happiness and he rejected it. He was just a mean person to those who loved him most.

Apparently, I have a sister out there I never knew about. Your description of your father is virtually identical to my description of my father. Probably slightly different words, but the substance is the same.

 

[Pats]

Apparently, I have a sister out there I never knew about. Your description of your father is virtually identical to my description of my father. Probably slightly different words, but the substance is the same.

Wow. I have a sibling out there somewhere, too. All I know is he/she was born in Colorado.

 

[Cogitatio]

My therapist says there is research out there (I can't quote it) that says communication between two individuals with a greater than 30 IQ gap is very difficult. My list of friends is 2 long and both of them are high IQ. The key to both of them is that they are content to just be together without having to fill silences. thereby reducing both the need to generate small talk (which I cannot do) nor listen to inane babble small talk back the other way. I have been told to get out more and find more friends but its cheap advice and I always take the advisor as saying 'go find someone else to be with other than me'. I can understand that. But just say so!

 

[puzzlingbill]

My therapist says there is research out there (I can't quote it) that says communication between two individuals with a greater than 30 IQ gap is very difficult. My list of friends is 2 long and both of them are high IQ. The key to both of them is that they are content to just be together without having to fill silences. thereby reducing both the need to generate small talk (which I cannot do) nor listen to inane babble small talk back the other way. I have been told to get out more and find more friends but its cheap advice and I always take the advisor as saying 'go find someone else to be with other than me'. I can understand that. But just say so!

Some people are uncomfortable with long periods of silence, and eventually feel the need to say something. Drives me up the wall, and it sounds like you're the same way. I think it's a function of personality type rather than IQ. I've known people who are smart, interesting, and way too gabby for me.

 

[Cogitatio]

Some people are uncomfortable with long periods of silence, and eventually feel the need to say something. Drives me up the wall, and it sounds like you're the same way. I think it's a function of personality type rather than IQ. I've known people who are smart, interesting, and way too gabby for me.

I did not mean to associate the two (IQ and silence). That was just bad writing.

 

[Shamar]

Some people are uncomfortable with long periods of silence, and eventually feel the need to say something. Drives me up the wall, and it sounds like you're the same way. I think it's a function of personality type rather than IQ. I've known people who are smart, interesting, and way too gabby for me.

Agreed. My philosophy is, if you have nothing useful to say, keep your mouth shut.Now, all we have to do is get everyone else to buy into it.

 

[china autie]

I know lots of people.
I have two real friends that live in another state.
No one to actually hang out with and do stuff with-- it's hard to be me.

 

[Shamar]

I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating: telling an autistic person "If you are lonely, just go out and make friends," is akin to telling a paraplegic "If you want to walk, just stand up and put one foot in front of the other."

 

[Nervous Rex]

My list of friends is 2 long... The key to both of them is that they are content to just be together without having to fill silences.

I think that's a sign of a very good friendship.

 

[paloftoon]

This "advice" may be well intentioned, but it's horrible advice. Things that can be more specific are things such as try an activity club out or go to meetup.com etc. to find places to try to connect with others. Someone (hopefully telling you 1-1) to consider therapy for ideas and social relief, or to focus on balance of yourself and exercise are all better advice for social scenarios.

 

[Shamar]

This "advice" may be well intentioned, but it's horrible advice. Things that can be more specific are things such as try an activity club out or go to meetup.com etc. to find places to try to connect with others. Someone (hopefully telling you 1-1) to consider therapy for ideas and social relief, or to focus on balance of yourself and exercise are all better advice for social scenarios.

I problem I have found with activity clubs is that they are still fundamentally social organizations. If the problem is inability to socialize, it seems to me that joining a social organization is useless, unless the club is specifically organized for autistics and other socially impaired persons. In a normal club, the loneliness and ostracism will still be there, just in a smaller circle of people.