Is having bad social skills offensive.

[phantom]

I don't understand why I often rub people the wrong way. Is it offensive or insulting to someone else for me to have bad social skills?

 

[BrokenBoy]

It is. I feel so ashamed when I turn someone off and don't know why.

 

[Aspychata]

I say the wrong thing, and it's a social screw-up. So masking to me means keeping my mouth shut, because sometimes l don't care about a random stranger telling me something that isn't relevant in general and they assumed something about me that isn't true.

 

[Prometheus]

Absolutely. You can see the ire in their eyes, when you do something unconventional. It's like okay, I have different ways of operating. Then you simmer, like, hey that's one more bad impression I've made. And half the times I didn't even know what I did wrong. I guess being autistic is just naturally offensive to the world.

 

[Au Naturel]

I don't understand why I often rub people the wrong way. Is it offensive or insulting to someone else for me to have bad social skills?

It can be. It depends on how it gets expressed. And there are always people who live for a chance to be offended.

There's a secret code in social interactions. Actually, it isn't a secret - but people like me have to learn the hard way how to avoid stepping on people's emotional feet. It is still a work in progress and probably will always be.

Not picking up that code instinctively and easily is probably the single most important trait of mild autism.

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter why. Once you find out that behavior X is offensive, you just don't do it. You don't ask why. Asking why means you are trying to reason your way out of the fact that doing X results in people deciding to be offended.

 

[Misery]

It's not necessarily a matter of social skills or a lack thereof. Depends. In some cases, it's actually what you're saying, and the tone/implications of it. Or, even moreso, overall attitude.

I've been where you are. But I am no longer there.

Hm, how to say this... well, I'll say what I've told a few others on here. When you bring too much negativity in terms of what you say, or your overall attitude, well... believe me, people notice that. Even if you try to hide it. That dark cloud hangs around you, and people... particularly NTs... can see it like a blazing beacon. It often isnt obvious to the person carrying that beacon. But it's REALLY obvious to others.

And with NTs in particular, they'll be put off by that. Angry responses, or just avoidance, or whatever, is a fairly normal/common response to that. Hand them negativity and they'll shove it right back at ya, often a bit amplified.

And before you try to tell me that this isnt how it works... like I said, I've been there. I've pointed out often that the reason I call myself "Misery" is because of the character, but that's not the only reason. I used to be a really, *really* negative person. Worse than anyone I've ever seen on this site, by a large margin. All the time.

That dark cloud of mine was more like a hurricane. But I couldnt see that. Everyone else sure could though.

Eventually someone sat me down and explained this to me, trying to help me change. After awhile I made the effort, and at a certain point, my personality and attitude flipped. From negative, to positive, dark to radiant.

And here's the thing: My social skills did not improve. I doubt they ever will... I'm on the spectrum after all, and bad social skills were part of how that manifests for me. And I'm still very sarcastic. But my social skills had never been what it was about. As soon as the negativity vanished... so did the problem you're talking about. That "rubbing people the wrong way" idea. It was gone. Just entirely gone.

Doesnt mean it's perfect, I can still be just... rather odd or confusing to deal with. And I have trouble talking sometimes, and I may say or do things that are just kinda loopy. But meeting people? Dealing with people? I dont get rejected or pushed away anymore. Nobody avoids me IRL, nobody tries to push me away or kick me out online, or anything like that. Granted, I still have other issues. But they're WAY less problematic. I even got to work as part of a team during the game-dev project. I was considered to be positive and hopeful by the others. They actually liked me. Some of them, I still know today, years later. What a change, from how it used to go.

I'm going to be very blunt about this: the reason I'm telling you this is because I've noticed a lot of that negativity in your posts and overall attitude over time. Not in relation to any specific subject, or any very specific couple of posts... just in general. I see in your posts over time what used to be a part of me. Like I said, I've been there.

I cant help you get rid of that, though. I can explain this bit here, point it out, but whether or not you can accept that is another matter, and entirely up to you. Accept it, reject it, your choice, though it hangs about you regardless, as it did with me. And if you do accept it, well, what you DO about it is also entirely up to you. Nobody can handle that part for you. YOU have to take the steps. And believe me, it aint easy. Those clouds are sticky.

I'm going to simply leave it at that... I'll say no more about it for now. In most cases, when giving advice of this type, I'll tend to debate or argue it a bit if the other person doesnt accept it. But not this time.

 

[phantom]

It's not necessarily a matter of social skills or a lack thereof. Depends. In some cases, it's actually what you're saying, and the tone/implications of it. Or, even moreso, overall attitude.

I've been where you are. But I am no longer there.

Hm, how to say this... well, I'll say what I've told a few others on here. When you bring too much negativity in terms of what you say, or your overall attitude, well... believe me, people notice that. Even if you try to hide it. That dark cloud hangs around you, and people... particularly NTs... can see it like a blazing beacon. It often isnt obvious to the person carrying that beacon. But it's REALLY obvious to others.

And with NTs in particular, they'll be put off by that. Angry responses, or just avoidance, or whatever, is a fairly normal/common response to that. Hand them negativity and they'll shove it right back at ya, often a bit amplified.

And before you try to tell me that this isnt how it works... like I said, I've been there. I've pointed out often that the reason I call myself "Misery" is because of the character, but that's not the only reason. I used to be a really, *really* negative person. Worse than anyone I've ever seen on this site, by a large margin. All the time.

That dark cloud of mine was more like a hurricane. But I couldnt see that. Everyone else sure could though.

Eventually someone sat me down and explained this to me, trying to help me change. After awhile I made the effort, and at a certain point, my personality and attitude flipped. From negative, to positive, dark to radiant.

And here's the thing: My social skills did not improve. I doubt they ever will... I'm on the spectrum after all, and bad social skills were part of how that manifests for me. And I'm still very sarcastic. But my social skills had never been what it was about. As soon as the negativity vanished... so did the problem you're talking about. That "rubbing people the wrong way" idea. It was gone. Just entirely gone.

Doesnt mean it's perfect, I can still be just... rather odd or confusing to deal with. And I have trouble talking sometimes, and I may say or do things that are just kinda loopy. But meeting people? Dealing with people? I dont get rejected or pushed away anymore. Nobody avoids me IRL, nobody tries to push me away or kick me out online, or anything like that. Granted, I still have other issues. But they're WAY less problematic. I even got to work as part of a team during the game-dev project. I was considered to be positive and hopeful by the others. They actually liked me. Some of them, I still know today, years later. What a change, from how it used to go.

I'm going to be very blunt about this: the reason I'm telling you this is because I've noticed a lot of that negativity in your posts and overall attitude over time. Not in relation to any specific subject, or any very specific couple of posts... just in general. I see in your posts over time what used to be a part of me. Like I said, I've been there.

I cant help you get rid of that, though. I can explain this bit here, point it out, but whether or not you can accept that is another matter, and entirely up to you. Accept it, reject it, your choice, though it hangs about you regardless, as it did with me. And if you do accept it, well, what you DO about it is also entirely up to you. Nobody can handle that part for you. YOU have to take the steps. And believe me, it aint easy. Those clouds are sticky.

I'm going to simply leave it at that... I'll say no more about it for now. In most cases, when giving advice of this type, I'll tend to debate or argue it a bit if the other person doesnt accept it. But not this time.

I have had people think i was angry or negative when i wasn't.

A while ago a driving instructor got mad at me about how i was supposedly uninterested. He was like "well i might as well set you off at your house again if you don't care, you are doing this for yourself you know". Mood wise i was in the same neutral state i usually am. There was nothing to be either excited or angry about, you just drive around in a car, what does he want from me?

Anyway I don't see anything in my life to be happy about. Being happy for the sake of less social rejection isn't going to do it for me.

 

[phantom]

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter why. Once you find out that behavior X is offensive, you just don't do it. You don't ask why. Asking why means you are trying to reason your way out of the fact that doing X results in people deciding to be offended.

Or you accept the consequences of offending people, which is well social isolation for me.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

On top of the great answers already given here, I will say that the switch from darkness to radiant (in Misery words) is a lot about responsability.

People who do accept their own responsability in what happens to them and try hard to take control on their lives become radiant.

And people who dont accept their own responsability and just blame others for their problems stay in the darkness.

The difference is so obvious here in the forum.

You will see responsible radiant people making steps towards being better versions of themselves almost every week. They advance in their projects, their personal lifes improve little by little, and they have extra energy to help others feel better. They not only advance themselves but also help others.

People who stay in darkness on the other hand, mostly post to blame others and the world for their problems. They dont do much progress, if they ever do. They hardly have energy to help others. They seem to ask for help but never apply the advice they recieve, they seem to drain energy and suck others into depression as they vent.

Nobody here has good social skills, but some will be able to be proud of their lifes despite autism, trauma, isolation and rejection. The difference is not functionality, intelligence or money.

In my opinion, what makes all the difference is personal responsability. Their attitude towards life.

The world if full of NTs that destroy their lifes despite having good social skills.

 

[phantom]

On top of the great answers already given here, I will say that the switch from darkness to radiant (in Misery words) is a lot about responsability.

People who do accept their own responsability in what happens to them and try hard to take control on their lives become radiant.

And people who dont accept their own responsability and just blame others for their problems stay in the darkness.

The difference is so obvious here in the forum.

You will see responsible radiant people making steps towards being better versions of themselves almost every week. They advance in their projects, their personal lifes improve little by little, and they have extra energy to help others feel better. They not only advance themselves but also help others.

People who stay in darkness on the other hand, mostly post to blame others and the world for their problems. They dont do much progress, if they ever do. They hardly have energy to help others. They seem to ask for help but never apply the advice they recieve, they seem to drain energy and suck others into depression as they vent.

Nobody here has good social skills, but some will be able to be proud of their lifes despite autism, trauma, isolation and rejection. The difference is not functionality, intelligence or money.

In my opinion, what makes all the difference is personal responsability. Their attitude towards life.

The world if full of NTs that destroy their lifes despite having good social skills.

You should write a self-help book.

 

[phantom]

They seem to ask for help but never apply the advice they recieve, they seem to drain energy and suck others into depression as they vent.

I don't think you understand what advice means, which is ironic given that you speak a Latin language.

 

[phantom]

There's a secret code in social interactions. Actually, it isn't a secret - but people like me have to learn the hard way how to avoid stepping on people's emotional feet.

Being too direct is definitely a way in which an autistic person can step on someones emotional feed. When I worked on group projects I would always very bluntly tell someone what was wrong with their work, no extra words to make it land better.

 

[Knower of nothing]

I have had people think i was angry or negative when i wasn't.

A while ago a driving instructor got mad at me about how i was supposedly uninterested. He was like "well i might as well set you off at your house again if you don't care, you are doing this for yourself you know". Mood wise i was in the same neutral state i usually am. There was nothing to be either excited or angry about, you just drive around in a car, what does he want from me?

Anyway I don't see anything in my life to be happy about. Being happy for the sake of less social rejection isn't going to do it for me.

Your neutral sounds like it's probably many people's negative, outwardly at least. It's a bit of social coercion; the expectation to match other people's energy like that (especially the types that get pissy when you stay in your own lane, truly don't budge for them if it's not needed, waste of time).
Lack of smiling, soft monotone low volume speaking, stoic face and people will just assume you're uninterested, tired or sad. Not that they necessarily don't understand that how you experience things has barely anything to do with your face, they'll assume it because their insecurity will make them assume it.

Do note that rectifying this isn't at all about being happy or whatever, it's just an outwardly thing. Smile, show interest, etc. People latch onto signals like that. In cases where you need to get through important interactions and you want no drama to come up, such superficialities may assist a bit. Think of it like a compromise of your genuine expression for a social lubricant. Personally I loathe this type of compromise so back when I had nothing to be happy about I didn't make it either. There's no regrets over doing so for me, it was the right decision. I feel there's something you lose when you start letting social customs walk all over you for the sake of a tiny bit less conflict.

I remember when I naturally chose quieter spots to sit at I would get complaints. At home leaving the dinner table to eat in peace got similar reactions for a while until I kept doing it. At least few people have ever bothered me to my face about my lacking conversation skills, so I assume it takes more of a tilted nature as a person to do that. Fits my image of a driving instructor. (He only seemed frustrated from how you wrote it though).

 

[Vindiesel]

I don't understand why I often rub people the wrong way. Is it offensive or insulting to someone else for me to have bad social skills?

Have you ever met another autistic person (in person) and had a conversation with them?

I have and I see how most people (normal brain wiring whatever that is) would interpret their speech, body language, intermittent eye contact, micro-expressions as "rubbing someone the wrong way." Even in some aspect almost into the realm of narcissistic due to direct language, no self doubt infused in the conversation, pendatic, unsolicited advice and one sided (some of this is just poor social skills.) I can see how it can be misconstrued this way.

I didn't realize how flat my expressions, how monotone my voice was until I started using snapchat and seeing my recordings before I send. (my partners got me using this app so I don't misconstrue my communication to them when it is something serious)

Obviously I haven't met "all" autistic people but the level of patterns that unfold are clearly innate to them, how there linguistics match their internal world.

This is when "masking" comes in. You cannot totally suppress your innate ability.

I would devalue the word "masking" and supplement it with you need to learn a new way to communicate with others. It is a different language then your core understanding and unfortunately it is a rather disingenous superficial emotional buttered communication.

You will rub others the wrong way and there is not much you can do about it unfortunately no matter how hard you try, mask, or communicate your intentions directly.

 

[Hypnalis]

A way to start thinking about this:

Resting bitch face - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A neutral expression and flat tone of voice has a similar effect - you will be perceived somewhat negatively.
It doesn't matter if it's unfair. These are "hard-wired" NT reactions - they can't be blamed for their evolved behaviors.

The "baseline" for NT's communicating includes a degree of active body language and intonation.

Note that both contribute to the content of the communication - for example emotional state, context (personal , important, urgent, etc), mode (serious, casual, humorous) and so forth.

If you want to see "flat" body language and simplified use of tones, watch video of two people squaring up for a fight.

These aspects of communication can be learned.

IMO everyone on the spectrum should work on them as much as they can. Learning to share in your communication the things that NT's take for granted is life-changing.

It's a small tragedy of ASD that our version of low-empathy is the nicest one by far (compare with how the "dark triad" misuses their empathy deficit), yet we have the hardest time dealing with it.

 

[Vindiesel]

A way to start thinking about this:

Resting bitch face - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A neutral expression and flat tone of voice has a similar effect - you will be perceived somewhat negatively.
It doesn't matter if it's unfair. These are "hard-wired" NT reactions - they can't be blamed for their evolved behaviors.

The "baseline" for NT's communicating includes a degree of active body language and intonation.

Note that both contribute to the content of the communication - for example emotional state, context (personal , important, urgent, etc), mode (serious, casual, humorous) and so forth.

If you want to see "flat" body language and simplified use of tones, watch video of two people squaring up for a fight.

These aspects of communication can be learned.

IMO everyone on the spectrum should work on them as much as they can. Learning to share in your communication the things that NT's take for granted is life-changing.

It's a small tragedy of ASD that our version of low-empathy is the nicest one by far (compare with how the "dark triad" misuses their empathy deficit), yet we have the hardest time dealing with it.

People find it creepy to talk to yourself in the mirror and smile. Sometimes it is almost paramount to see ones deficit compared to the rest of the world and potentially how your portrayed.

RBF is an automatic distancing tool and also an attracter for people that like mystery.

(On a tangent) Id love to get people on this forum on a zoom call and setup a seminar about "masking." Giving realworld examples of my particular interactions with others in my "non-masked form" and my "masked form" and have others try it or give their experience.

Id like to add this is an on-going skill that requires practice. Being in social settings to acquire and maintain these skills. If you end up mostly in a solitude state for a while or minimal interactions your skills will atrophy.

 

[Forest Cat]

When I was a teenager I upset people left and right. Because I said what I was thinking, with very little filter. And pulling the wrong jokes at the wrong time. For example, funerals are not good places for joking. So when you walk into a graveyard, don't say "a lot of people and little life here today".

It's something that has to be learned, see how people react and learn from it. People don't like it when they think someone is rude or cold or uncaring.

I'm guessing your driver instructor was annoyed because he thought you showed no interest in what you were doing. And he was trying to teach you something. That can be annoying. People don't like annoying. I'm sure you don't like annoying. So show some interest, ask some questions and show that you are taking it seriously. That you're not just sitting there waiting for it to end. I'm not saying this is easy, I'm just saying I think you should pay attention to peoples reactions and learn from it.

 

[phantom]

When I was a teenager I upset people left and right. Because I said what I was thinking, with very little filter. And pulling the wrong jokes at the wrong time. For example, funerals are not good places for joking. So when you walk into a graveyard, don't say "a lot of people and little life here today".

I would have laughed at that.

 

[MildredHubble]

One of my problems has been a tendancy to get into what I used to call a "verbal avalanche" or what I've learned is "info dumping". If someone asks me a question about something I'm knowledgeable about and they seem interested, I kinda just take off on a coherent, but in depth ramble.

I try to be careful about this but, they take me by surprise. I tend to explain something from start to finish being as complete as possible. The problem is that people interpret this as me assuming they don't know anything about the subject. Or they pull faces that I have learned from bitter experience that mean they don't want anymore information and want me to shut up.

If someone does this when I ask a question it doesn't bother me at all. At my old job (I've talked about it here quite a few times) this would happen quite a lot. There was also a guy working there temporarily that people were unkind to that I got on with fine, but he was often accused of similar negative traits to myself.

We shared quite a bit of knowledge about vintage computers, science and electronics. When we talked about things we would often get into info dump territory. The difference is, I wasn't even slightly offended or upset about him covering ground that I was extremely familiar with. I just found it super fun to talk about this stuff.

First few times this happened, when he left the room, my colleagues would comment on his "bad attitude" towards me. I was left wondering what on earth they were talking about.

I also started to notice some odd behaviour from my manager, who would ask me about what I felt was a good way to fix something. On one occasion he asked me how I would repair a metal statue that had broken off its base. So in an effort to be helpful I explained that soldering could be one option but not the most sound of mechanical repairs, or brazing, but again perhaps not the best solution. Then I explained that welding might be better but not in the sense of a welding torch, more in the style of old black smithing style with heat and hammering.

He got angry at me and said "I know! I'm not stupid you know! I did that at university!" Ok, well if that was the case, why the funky heck did he ask? (I'm using Misery's phrase again! )

In retrospect, I think this was a test, and not the only one. It's projection I believe. People believe you are being condescending when really you are just being enthusiastic and complete in your explanation.

Other than that fun stuff, when I'm concentrating on something, my voice tends to become flat and monotone, which is interpreted as being disinterested and has often resulted in people flying into a rage because they think I'm being difficult or uncooperative.

So I too try to just keep my mouth shut as often as possible. This mitigates the "misunderstandings" somewhat.

I find that what I refer to as "conventional thinkers" tend to be very black and white in their reasoning. Basically "If A then B, always, without exception, things ARE as I see them subjectively."

 

[Luca]

One of my problems has been a tendancy to get into what I used to call a "verbal avalanche" or what I've learned is "info dumping". If someone asks me a question about something I'm knowledgeable about and they seem interested, I kinda just take off on a coherent, but in depth ramble.

I try to be careful about this but, they take me by surprise. I tend to explain something from start to finish being as complete as possible. The problem is that people interpret this as me assuming they don't know anything about the subject. Or they pull faces that I have learned from bitter experience that mean they don't want anymore information and want me to shut up.

If someone does this when I ask a question it doesn't bother me at all. At my old job (I've talked about it here quite a few times) this would happen quite a lot. There was also a guy working there temporarily that people were unkind to that I got on with fine, but he was often accused of similar negative traits to myself.

We shared quite a bit of knowledge about vintage computers, science and electronics. When we talked about things we would often get into info dump territory. The difference is, I wasn't even slightly offended or upset about him covering ground that I was extremely familiar with. I just found it super fun to talk about this stuff.

First few times this happened, when he left the room, my colleagues would comment on his "bad attitude" towards me. I was left wondering what on earth they were talking about.

I also started to notice some odd behaviour from my manager, who would ask me about what I felt was a good way to fix something. On one occasion he asked me how I would repair a metal statue that had broken off its base. So in an effort to be helpful I explained that soldering could be one option but not the most sound of mechanical repairs, or brazing, but again perhaps not the best solution. Then I explained that welding might be better but not in the sense of a welding torch, more in the style of old black smithing style with heat and hammering.

He got angry at me and said "I know! I'm not stupid you know! I did that at university!" Ok, well if that was the case, why the funky heck did he ask? (I'm using Misery's phrase again! )

In retrospect, I think this was a test, and not the only one. It's projection I believe. People believe you are being condescending when really you are just being enthusiastic and complete in your explanation.

Other than that fun stuff, when I'm concentrating on something, my voice tends to become flat and monotone, which is interpreted as being disinterested and has often resulted in people flying into a rage because they think I'm being difficult or uncooperative.

So I too try to just keep my mouth shut as often as possible. This mitigates the "misunderstandings" somewhat.

I find that what I refer to as "conventional thinkers" tend to be very black and white in their reasoning. Basically "If A then B, always, without exception, things ARE as I see them subjectively."

Thank you for explaining it this way in detail. I’m exactly the same way and I always find it hard to explain.

Infodumping doesn’t offend me. I prefer deeper conversations to small talk anyway (I think most of us do.)

I think the thing that often rubs people the wrong way about me is that I tend to say exactly what I’m thinking, and since I have trouble processing things I say verbally, sometimes it comes across as really rude. People sometimes think I’m being rude when I’m just asking a question or expressing a thought about something.

My jokes are also often inappropriate or shocking which a lot of people don’t find funny. I find that other autistic people are more likely to laugh at my jokes, actually.

I’m not sure exactly where I was going with this… but I’m not likely to find poor social skills offensive because mine aren’t perfect either. If anything, I’m usually understanding about it.
And I feel terrible if I accidentally offend people. I would think most of us do.