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Is God NT?

My choice was largely intellectual based on scientific/physics. Part of the choice was influenced by observing the emotional effects religion had on so many people: the extremists in all faiths were behaving in ways that seemed insane to me all while using this or that scripture as a pretext for everything from stoning to beheading to burning alive to mutilating. Wild-eyed wing-nuts cloaked in robes of authority were preaching & practising every from of profligate madness nameable. I also was disturbed by the way many people blamed everything in their life on some divine or demonic invisible force. Even hardened criminals used society's naive religiosity to manipulate their treatment. Those who claimed to have repented, got baptised or born again & to have become men of god no longer under satan, received freedoms & privileges other prisoners didn't. Some even saw their sentences reduced or were removed from death row! Incredible.
 
Hi Balder,

I was saddened to learn that you had gone through feeling suicidal. I sincerely hope that whatever it was that triggered these feelings has been resolved or that at least you have made peace with it.

Thanks for your concern, Soup! The reason I was afraid to tell them was because I already knew the experience of my uncle. He left the same church and told people he was indeed an atheist. After doing that, my entire family barely talk to him anymore and only speak bad of him. My case has been less shocking, because I only told I don't agree with the chrurch. If I'd tell them I have doubts of God's existence, things would get worse for me.
 
This topic is entertaining!
here's my addition.
from what I've seen on people, the world, religions, non-religious philosophy etc ... I'm left wondering this:
Has anyone who is religious, made this decision based 100% on a purely intellectual level?
Or has there always been an emotional content in this decision?
I wonder this because I've gotten the impression religion is based on an emotional response to the meaning of life. philosophy is based on a rational viewpoint. Wisdom is based on rationally approaching emotion!
I think people get religion or philosophy (non religion in other words) but rarely do they reach the third!
ahem, there you go. my thoughts....

My belief is based not on emotion but upon a combination of intuition, reason and pragmatism.

INTUITION
Wikipedia: Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without inference and/or the use of reason.
"The word 'intuition' comes from the Latin word 'intueri' which is usually translated as 'to look inside' or 'to contemplate'."
Intuition provides us with beliefs that we cannot justify in every case. For this reason, it has been the subject of study in psychology, as well as a topic of interest in the supernatural. The "right brain" is popularly associated with intuitive processes such as aesthetic abilities.
Some scientists have contended that intuition is associated with innovation in scientific discovery.​

For example, Einstein was a non-religious aspie believer who once said Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does not really bring us any closer to the secret of the "old one."
I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice.​

REASON
Heidigger suggested in the mid twentieth century that the ultimate metaphysical question is:
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"​
Phiosophy has a long history of examining this question using the power of logic and reason:

PRAGMATISM
William James, the founder of the first truly American system of Philosophy, Pragmatism, defined truth as "what works." For many people a spiritual belief works well for them. It provides comfort and stability. It gives them courage and strength. Many good, decent people credit their faith with motivating life goals that are admirable.

I liked what Obama said in his speech last night when he quoted Lincoln. Lincoln's speech addressed the national crisis of the southern secession from the union.
"... upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go."​

Lincoln was not religious but he was a pragmatist and he accepted that in the situation he describes it worked for him to believe fulfilling William James peculiarly American definition of truth as "what works."

DISCLAIMER
Religion and faith have often been twisted and combined with power and evil to create horror of many kinds. We should condemn this perversion like any other.
 
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This topic is entertaining!

here's my addition.

from what I've seen on people, the world, religions, non-religious philosophy etc ... I'm left wondering this:

Has anyone who is religious, made this decision based 100% on a purely intellectual level?
Or has there always been an emotional content in this decision?

I wonder this because I've gotten the impression religion is based on an emotional response to the meaning of life. philosophy is based on a rational viewpoint. Wisdom is based on rationally approaching emotion!

I think people get religion or philosophy (non religion in other words) but rarely do they reach the third!

ahem, there you go. my thoughts....

C.S. Lewis appears to have done so. It has been a long time since I read "Mere Christianity," but he takes a logical approach to the issue, even though his reasoning is deeply flawed. I actually have more respect for people who "just believe" than for those who try and rationalize that belief in such a thorough manner as he does.
 
I wonder this because I've gotten the impression religion is based on an emotional response to the meaning of life. philosophy is based on a rational viewpoint. Wisdom is based on rationally approaching emotion!

I think people get religion or philosophy (non religion in other words) but rarely do they reach the third!

Kant said:
"Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life." :biggrin:
 
Kant said:
"Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life." :biggrin:

:) I like that one!

IF there is a god, and IF he (she/it) created the universe... how come the only way to understand it is via logic? That's not the NT way!

unfortunately for that argument, I suppose it could easily be said that the only way to appreciate it is via an emotional response, which IS the NT way! :p

I don't suppose we could add to Kant cold we? how about "Religion is organised chaos." :balanced:
 
Religion, having provided readily understood (yet completely unscientific) answers to life's big questions as well as promises, assurances & formulaic behaviours, rules & warnings. can provide a sense of certainty to adherents. Like an analgesic & an antidepressant, it can ease the pain of illness, loss & suffering by providing simple metaphysical reasons for them imbuing them with profound meaning. It relieves people of the duty to engage in the tough think-work & truly address their fears. The burden of reason, facing hard realities, scientific inquiry & the terror of not knowing is a much greater challenge. Religion provides answers, but they're not true! Like a child who believes that his teddy bear & blanket will protect him, grown adults cling to their holy book & wrap themselves in soothing words.

Believing that some unseen power is magically protecting you, watching over you (like the so-called guardian angel) & controlling ultimate outcomes can be reassuring. As for organized chaos, it is merely the illusion of chaos having been organized: it sweeps true scientific enquiry under the rug & replaces it with dogma & superstition. Encircling it all is a mental barbed wire fence consisting of fearsome threats awaiting those who doubt, question, dare to veer from the religion's constraints or who simply switch over to another faith system! Such a person can become condemned to hell fire by one religious system but elevated to heaven by another!
 
The only one I can think of would be former atheist Anthony Flew who wrote "There is a God." However, I did not find his arguments convincing (as in proof). Belief in God may be logical as he claims, but there is a difference between something being logically feasible and actually existing. He did not provide evidence that God actually exists, only why believing is not irrational and illogical.
 
I believe in God and I believe God is a psychopath.
An entirely objective current of existence. According to the bible, God has all of these traits I'm bolding.
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative

Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Case history "Socially deviant lifestyle".
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release

So, no, I don't think He'd qualify as NT.

I just saw this post, and I would like to respond with a belated high-five. :cool2:
 
I'd been thinking about the nature of God for a while, ever since I stopped believing he was all-loving by human standards, and this is what I came up with. I just psychoanalyzed God, that must be blasphemy somewhere =P
 
IMO its no different to laying a little Freud on the wizard of Oz, Zeus, assorted fairy godmothers & any other fictitious character. Belief alone does NOT make something real. Even if that belief is as sincere & ardent as a child's belief in Santa Claus (also has ancient roots in god myths such as old god Woden) it remains a but a belief & a choice.

Back in my Uni days, one of my many religion courses dealt with the nature of divinity. NOT just of the Abrahamic faiths' god but the entire concept of divinity. Many people thought it meant 'all good' or 'all powerful' only to learn that in many religions, gods had limited powers (dominion over only a few domains) were far from all good (jealous, petty, vengeful, thieving...) . The most interesting had to do with gods being immortal-but no: many could be killed, defeated, demoted & cast out.

THe more interesting course by a long shot was on satan (& other devilish figures) evil, the demonic & the implications thereof. What was striking was that in reading many myths associated with these characters, if you didn't know ahead of time what you were reading, you could just as readily attribute the stories & behaviours in it to a god! Sometimes, the only difference was perspective: one group attributed the story to an evil force, the other to a good one. HUH. Reminds me of old Sir Francis Drake: hero to the British, villain to the Spaniards.
 
I think, given a choice (which we all have), I choose to believe in Santa! Yay! Lots of nice Xmas presses for me cos I'm a believer! :wavespin:

Anyone who doesn't believe in Santa gets no presses.... forever! :p
 
I have to laugh at Hello Dizzy's analysis of God's character according to the Bible. Last Sunday my pastor was preaching from Galatians about how we are no longer slaves but God's children and he said "I had a good father while I was growing up but I realize not all of you have had good fathers. They didn't set the example for you that God sets for us." And he recommended that if we want to know what a good father ought to be like--what God the Father is like--we should read the Bible. I'm sitting there thinking that that was very dangerous advice--the LAST thing he wants (if he knows any better) is for his flock to go rummaging around in the Scriptures unsupervised and without any guidance! Hello Dizzy's post is an excellent example of what I am talking about!
 
Nice having a superstition & dogma free mind unfettered by fear, bigotry & arrogant self-righteousness.
 
Nice having a superstition & dogma free mind unfettered by fear, bigotry & arrogant self-righteousness.


Ahhh, that last bit is bad! I'm afraid to say my girlfriend who is generally a really nice and wonderful person, has what she calls a "faith". After trying to talk to her about it for 18months now, I still find what she says about it utterly ludicrous! It doesn't take long before the self-righteousness comes out, and I point out the utter illogical monkey-mind thinking, at which point it then decends into huffiness and pointless debate over my choice of language (I tend to swear a lot when I get really hot under the collar about illogical thinking!).

I think god is about as real as the moon is made out of cheese. If someone wants to somehow convince themselves otherwise, I'm not going to stand in the way. I do worry that the nicest girlfriend I've ever had (by light years, not miles) is under this illusion of divine whatever. Out of principle I shouldn't have anything to do with her. I find that sort of thinking dangerous and closed.

But hey, they're only human right? I prefer dogs and cats!!!
 
Same here. My dog will never ring your door on Saturday morning & try to get you to convert or read really lame magazines.
 

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