Interpreting Things Literally

[Ste11aeres]

In dating, I am clueless if a girl tries to be hard to get as I just assume she isn't interested.

Actually, I've heard that most guys are clueless about hard-to-get. So it's not a good idea for a girl to act like that. Especially since it's not fair to girls who really aren't interested; due to experience with other girls playing hard to get, a guy might think that a girl who's genuinely not interested is also playing that!

 

[Loomis]

Actually, I've heard that most guys are clueless about hard-to-get. So it's not a good idea for a girl to act like that. Especially since it's not fair to girls who really aren't interested; due to experience with other girls playing hard to get, a guy might think that a girl who's genuinely not interested is also playing that!

I agree completely. I have no idea if any woman ever played hard-to-get with me because it looks exactly like: "I am not interested." In fact, nearly all the women in my life came after me rather than my approaching them. I miss the cues like most aspies and need to be hit over the head to get it. What usually happened is a friend of a woman would tell me she was interested.

 

[balder]

Actually, I've heard that most guys are clueless about hard-to-get. So it's not a good idea for a girl to act like that. Especially since it's not fair to girls who really aren't interested; due to experience with other girls playing hard to get, a guy might think that a girl who's genuinely not interested is also playing that!

Yeah, after a lot of failure I just gave up completely this game. If there is one thing that always upsets me is when someone says something in a hidden sexual way and I can't be sure of that. Very annoying, and I avoid talking to this kind of people.

 

[Shane Sugar Cane]

I just hate people stating false things, when they could state it correctly. It's just incorrect.

I feel as if I know, maybe exactly, what you mean. I hate when delving into something with multiple outcomes with a friend, and I propose the "what ifs," and they say thatll never happen, you're over thinking again. I absolutely hate that as well. It pisses me off that I'm the only sane one taking precautions in the event something goes not as planned, and I'm viewed as paranoid as a result.

It also bothers me when people say things like "soon" or "later." the uncertainty just sends my mind whirling with potential outcomes.

 

[Mark_D]

I hate when people use words like "certain" or "definitely" or this "will" happen, when there's a possibility, big or small, that it won't. They're basically stating a lie, something that's just false, and I hate it.

I don't need any further explanation on this...I know how SUM1 feels. I almost said 'exactly' but thought better of it although it's probably accurate. DON'T SPEAK IN ABSOLUTES!!! I hate this, too. They are extremely rarely true. Especially when you are working out a problem with your mate. I get very angry about this. How can you focus on a problem or a behavior if you're not accurate? Specificity is vital to me. Also, don't state opinion or feelings as fact. I will argue the point vehemently when the perceived fact is incorrect. You have to say "I believe" or "I feel" because a feeling is a feeling and a fact is a fact.

I also need specificity in instruction. If I'm asked to write up a particular document or set of documents at work, I need parameters so I know I am meeting expectations. If I am asked to write a draft Lesson Plan I set about doing exactly that. I've been designing and developing training courses for many years and know how to do it properly. When I ask for specific information necessary to do the job right, I'm often told that I'm making it too hard, going too deeply into details and so on. That seriously pisses me off. You're asking me to do a job wrong or incompletely. So there is an example of needing specific instruction. Does that make sense to anybody?

 

[asnlifecoach]

I don't need any further explanation on this...I know how SUM1 feels. I almost said 'exactly' but thought better of it although it's probably accurate. DON'T SPEAK IN ABSOLUTES!!! I hate this, too. They are extremely rarely true. Especially when you are working out a problem with your mate. I get very angry about this. How can you focus on a problem or a behavior if you're not accurate? Specificity is vital to me. Also, don't state opinion or feelings as fact. I will argue the point vehemently when the perceived fact is incorrect. You have to say "I believe" or "I feel" because a feeling is a feeling and a fact is a fact.

I also need specificity in instruction. If I'm asked to write up a particular document or set of documents at work, I need parameters so I know I am meeting expectations. If I am asked to write a draft Lesson Plan I set about doing exactly that. I've been designing and developing training courses for many years and know how to do it properly. When I ask for specific information necessary to do the job right, I'm often told that I'm making it too hard, going too deeply into details and so on. That seriously pisses me off. You're asking me to do a job wrong or incompletely. So there is an example of needing specific instruction. Does that make sense to anybody?

I completely understand what you are saying. But also take the time to see it from your mate's point of view. You said if an opinion or feeling is stated as a fact or if the fact is incorrect you will "argue the point vehemently". But can you see how if the fact itself isn't important to the conversation, or to the point of the conversation, that your arguing of the incorrect point is wasting time and frustrating the other person? When an accurate fact isn't important, to focus on it is illogical. Now if the fact is vitally important to the conversation, I can see where correcting the person and moving on would be sufficient. But if no progress is being made because of an incorrect statement that doesn't matter to the final outcome of the conversation, it may be wise to learn how to let those certain instances go. Think about how you feel when someone gets the facts wrong, it frustrates you to no end, right? Well, the person who got the fact wrong, who doesn't believe the fact is important to begin with, gets equally frustrated with you when you are focusing on something that they consider unimportant. This is what I mean by miscommunication. If I learn to speak more clearly, factually, etc. You should also learn to distinguish between important and unimportant facts, you know as a compromise....soon we will all be communicating more effectively and create a better understanding of each other.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[GoldenRatio]

Oh man, I feel like I have struck mental gold on this website. I seriously thought I was weird because I could not stand "ABSOLUTES" (as Mark_D put it so perfectly lol). I am just going to repeat what has already been said, but oh well, I don't get to do it anywhere else. Stating something as fact when it is clearly not fact is beyond ridiculous to me. There are big picture statements that I could address, such as religion or politics, but I am going to rant about the small stuff I get irritated with. Firstly, I cannot stand being asked what my "favorite" anything is. Favorite to me is illogical because to me, that means you have tried everything and you are now able to make an educated decision based on that experience. For instance, favorite food. My moods change, my body craves different food. How would it be rational to pick a favorite food to have on a secluded island for the rest of your life. Stupid. I understand to NT's this is just role play, but what is the point of doing it, it serves no purpose what so ever. My next pet peeve is when someone state's, "they make the best burgers in the world!" Oh really, you're telling me you have been to every burger shop on the planet and are now able to sit down and tell me definitively that this is the best burger in the world, all the while taking into account my taste buds. Again, another irrational statement.

Alright, I am off the soap box now lol!

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

When an accurate fact isn't important, to focus on it is illogical.

No it is not illogical. If someone has a habit of talking nonsense and exaggerating, then one cannot believe anything they say. They have no credibility at all and then there is no point in listening to a word they say. If I know someone has a habit of speaking accurately then I have greater trust in them.

Self-awareness is important and helpful in understanding others. If we don't understand ourselves first, (at least in part) there is no way we'll be able to understand another person.

This is nonsense. I understand myself very well. There are a lot of other people I will never understand. For example, I don't understand those who feel the need to lie or cheat, or stomp all over others (figuratively speaking) to get what they want. I don't understand those who claim to love someone and then abuse that person, nor do I understand the abused person for staying with the abuser. No matter how well I understand myself, I will never understand those types of people. Furthermore, there is no benefit to me whatsoever in understanding those people.

 

[Mark_D]

asnlifecoach, I do understand what you're saying. My intended focus is that making a derogatory statement such as "You are (fill in the blank)" or "You (some kind of negative behavior aimed at intentionally hurting her)" about me is something I've gotten used to because it happens so frequently but I will answer it by saying that I don't feel that I'm a _____, that it's hurtful to be insulted or to be called (insert insulting name) and please don't do that. Her response is to accuse me of invalidating her feelings. Being cut down or called a nasty name is not a feeling. There is no "I feel" or "I think" used in her statements. For her to state that I have done or am doing something awful is a statement of fact. That is not a feeling, it's an accusation. I used to just stay silent and let those things go. Our counselor says I need to make my feelings known. Not good in my case. If I say that I'm not having an affair, for instance, I'm accused of gaslighting. Oh, she is convinced that I have been trying to make her think that she's crazy (her word) and undermine her confidence to make her subservient.

That is what I'm referring to, not some banal statement like "the house is messy". Duh, I have eyes...or "that color is _______, not tan. Okay, I didn't know the name of the color.

Do you understand more clearly now?

Cyanide, I stayed for years for our son. Now I'm pretty sure it's because I don't want to lose half of everything and I'm not sure that having no one is better than having someone who hurts me. I'm not really certain, I suppose. It's never been analyzed in any depth. Probably because I felt abandoned by my mother, which is true, but I don't know if that is the root.

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

If I say that I'm not having an affair, for instance, I'm accused of gaslighting.

Why is denying an affair considered gaslighting? You have every right to deny a false accusation. Would your partner be happy if you falsely accused her of something so serious?

 

[asnlifecoach]

asnlifecoach, I do understand what you're saying. My intended focus is that making a derogatory statement such as "You are (fill in the blank)" or "You (some kind of negative behavior aimed at intentionally hurting her)" about me is something I've gotten used to because it happens so frequently but I will answer it by saying that I don't feel that I'm a _____, that it's hurtful to be insulted or to be called (insert insulting name) and please don't do that. Her response is to accuse me of invalidating her feelings. Being cut down or called a nasty name is not a feeling. There is no "I feel" or "I think" used in her statements. For her to state that I have done or am doing something awful is a statement of fact. That is not a feeling, it's an accusation. I used to just stay silent and let those things go. Our counselor says I need to make my feelings known. Not good in my case. If I say that I'm not having an affair, for instance, I'm accused of gaslighting. Oh, she is convinced that I have been trying to make her think that she's crazy (her word) and undermine her confidence to make her subservient.

That is what I'm referring to, not some banal statement like "the house is messy". Duh, I have eyes...or "that color is _______, not tan. Okay, I didn't know the name of the color.

Do you understand more clearly now?

Cyanide, I stayed for years for our son. Now I'm pretty sure it's because I don't want to lose half of everything and I'm not sure that having no one is better than having someone who hurts me. I'm not really certain, I suppose. It's never been analyzed in any depth. Probably because I felt abandoned by my mother, which is true, but I don't know if that is the root.

Unfortunately, NTs aren't as factual as you are. Sometimes the feeling of anger comes out as an insult instead of a simple "I am angry at you because..." So when you are then being accused of invalidating her feelings, she is correct from her point of view. You are also correct, from your point of view. The trick here is to find a language that you both speak and both understand completely since neither of you understand each other's language.

Let's take the accusation that you are having an affair, you denied it. Her feelings are telling her that you are having an affair. Something in your behavior (that if you were an NT that behavior would indicate you are indeed having an affair) is making her feel the way she feels and when you deny it with a simple sentence she is in conflict between your words and her feelings. Her feelings are no more or less logical than your words. They are just as real and valid. So for instance, if you said "I'm not having an affair, can you tell me why you think I am?" You open the door for an explanation. Perhaps she would say something like "Because you stopped kissing me when you got home from work six months ago." And then you could answer that... It's just an example of a possibility.

Look at it this way. You are coming from a completely logical, verbal side and she is coming from a completely emotional, gut feeling side. There needs to be a mixture here. There is always a reason for everything. So question her behaviors, encourage her to question yours, and when you think of it...offer an explanation for why you think a certain way, or why you answered something in a certain way. Because in fact, the simple, truthful answer may not always be enough. Not just in a relationship but also in business, society, and various other parts of life. It can only help, it will not hurt to try.

 

[Ylva]

This is one of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of Aspergers. I assure you, every Aspie on this site can understand idioms such as "raining cats and dogs" and "his heart on his sleeve." When we take things literally, it is in a more subtle way. Some of the members of this site have written little anecdotes about this trait in other threads.
The idea of Aspies taking things literally is itself taken too literally.

That's what I thought! I mean: earlier today, I thought exactly that. NTs take this assumption too seriously, and far too literally.

Of course I can understand what an idiom means after it has been explained to me. There is not an NT out there who has always understood idioms or who could intuitively understand a new one without explanation or some pretty damn specific context. I don't mind figurative expressions, but I do mind vagueness, and that has always been my Achilles heel ? that I can't wait for lots of context, I want the straight answer right away, please.

The reason I'm still talking about this is because I'm really trying to understand, so please don't get annoyed with me.

It just seems to me that hate is a strong word/emotion for something as meaningless (meaningless to me, maybe not to others) as someone getting the facts wrong. I tend to reserve hate for someone who has hurt me physically, or mentally, or caused some sort of harm to someone I care about. To hate a human error, not intended to hurt or cause problems, a mistake, just seems extreme based on the simple and to the point explanation you gave. Is it possible that there is a little more to it? For example, do you hate it because you perhaps like to be perfect yourself, and when something is imperfect it may mess up the perfection you enjoy surrounding yourself with? I don't know, I'm just asking or theorizing a possible answer. Because that kind of answer would make more sense to me.

YOU CAN'T RELY ON LIES.

And you can't rely on people who tell lies.

Those people are the people who will go behind your back and mock you. They will cause maximum confusion for their own amusement and act like it is you who are stupid. You can tell me all you want that this is an unfair generalisation, but you know what? This is the most telling sign I know of, it is one of those that set off alarm bells, like when you hear footsteps behind you late at night. It won't always be a rapist or a mugger, but you'll still want to prepare yourself for it.

 

[asnlifecoach]

This is nonsense. I understand myself very well. There are a lot of other people I will never understand. For example, I don't understand those who feel the need to lie or cheat, or stomp all over others (figuratively speaking) to get what they want. I don't understand those who claim to love someone and then abuse that person, nor do I understand the abused person for staying with the abuser. No matter how well I understand myself, I will never understand those types of people. Furthermore, there is no benefit to me whatsoever in understanding those people.

I don't believe it is nonsense, based on the fact that I've dedicated my life to understanding people. Those who feel the need to lie or cheat do so for a reason. To understand the reason can make all the difference. (it does not mean that it is right, I just don't like to say that someone has no benefit to me because of how they act. Good people can sometimes do bad things. Bad people can sometimes do good things.) You are speaking in such absolutes, and I get it. But to me it is never black or white. As far as benefit to you in understanding people better...there has to be some benefit. The fact that you're here, that you've taken Aspie tests, that the way people act frustrates you. If you understand these people a little better it may reduce your frustrations with them. That would be a benefit.

YOU CAN'T RELY ON LIES.

And you can't rely on people who tell lies.

Those people are the people who will go behind your back and mock you. They will cause maximum confusion for their own amusement and act like it is you who are stupid. You can tell me all you want that this is an unfair generalisation, but you know what? This is the most telling sign I know of, it is one of those that set off alarm bells, like when you hear footsteps behind you late at night. It won't always be a rapist or a mugger, but you'll still want to prepare yourself for it.

You don't have to rely on someone to understand them. There are different levels of friendship. The people I confide in are near the top levels. The people I speak to on a daily basis but converse in small talk are near the lower levels as acquaintances. In between those two extremes are people that can be trusted with some things, and not with others. It's like navigating the ocean. People are waves and sometimes there are storms that kick up those waves, and other times the sea is so calm it is like a sheet of glass. There is logic in the chaos.

 

[Ylva]

You asked why he hates dishonesty. I do not think hate is too strong an emotion to have for that.

And I doubt people who are not pathological liars, lie unintentionally.

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

I don't believe it is nonsense, based on the fact that I've dedicated my life to understanding people.

Dedication to a particular task doesn't make it right. Despite claiming that you understand us, clearly you don't because you have not acknowledged the importance of accuracy, reliability and integrity. I'm a Quality Coordinator in a medical pathology laboratory. Accuracy, reliability and integrity are black and white issues. I deal with them on a daily basis. When I'm assessing risk I need facts, not exaggerations or half truths. When I'm providing a result or a product that can potentially cause harm, I need to know that everything is correct and i need to be able to trust the results obtained by my colleagues. No one wants their pathology results from an organisation that thinks rough enough is good enough and we would have numerous lawsuits on our hands if we behaved that way. And these attributes are not just relevant to the workplace. Accuracy, reliability and integrity are important in my private life too. I don't want relationships with dishonest people. I want relationships with people I can trust.

Understanding why somebody plays fast and loose with the truth will never reduce my frustrations with their dishonesty. It will never overturn the hardwiring of my brain, nor the principles of honesty that my Aspie mother drummed into me when I was growing up. Nor will that understanding make them more trustworthy and honest.

In between those two extremes are people that can be trusted with some things, and not with others. It's like navigating the ocean. People are waves and sometimes there are storms that kick up those waves, and other times the sea is so calm it is like a sheet of glass. There is logic in the chaos.

In a court case, if a witness has a history of anything remotely connected with dishonesty, their entire testimony is called into question since no one can know for certain when they are and are not telling the truth.

There's a good reason why we have life jackets on board boats. We can never trust the sea with our safety and become complacent.

 

[Loomis]

No it is not illogical. If someone has a habit of talking nonsense and exaggerating, then one cannot believe anything they say. They have no credibility at all and then there is no point in listening to a word they say. If I know someone has a habit of speaking accurately then I have greater trust in them.

I agree one-hundred percent.

I have a brother in law who is a NT that insists on telling stories containing gross and obvious exaggerations. He tells these stories for entertainment and other NTs find them interesting and funny. This is perplexing because I see the stories as valueless; there is no way to know what parts are true. Moreover I find the stories boring. Since I know he makes many false statements I give nothing he says any credibility. I do not dislike him but I cannot endure listening to him. I do not laugh at his jokes and I make no effort to pretend to be interested because to do so is dishonest. I know this is impolite but I cannot abide clear and obvious distortions of the truth that are made for effect only. To hell with acting just for propriety. I care not if he dislikes me and I accept any consequences this may have on my relationship with his wife or other family members.

 

[Gomendosi]

I have trouble when people say; "see you later", I used to ask what time.

As with anything there are levels to how much belief you put into things, when speaking in person to people I know I will sometimes relate events to them with slight exaggerations to capture attention, be entertaining and because without an eidetic memory I cannot remember everything exactly as it happened. When I 'dramatize' events like this I add disclaimers of a sort, saying things like; "or words to that effect" or "it was similar to this".
Obviously I don't do this all the time and certainly not when it's important, this in no way makes me a liar or less reliable!

Also, most people would understand as I do, sayings people use are more often than not truths from ancient times that have become convoluted or misremembered through the ages, just for example the cats and dogs thing relates to when commoners had thatched roofs the household pets (even dogs) would go up and hunt the vermin that lived there, the weather would turn, the animal would nestle further in to escape the heavier rain or snow and would wind up falling to the floor. Whereupon the resident would remark somthing along the lines that it was raining cats and dogs.

The truth behind it being so cold as to freeze the balls off a brass monkey is another saying that has an interesting origin as well ; ]

 

[Ste11aeres]

When an accurate fact isn't important, to focus on it is illogical.

Speaking of literal meanings...that's not the literal meaning of the word logic or illogical Logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Hope you won't take offense. None intended. )

 

[Shane Sugar Cane]

I don't need any further explanation on this...I know how SUM1 feels. I almost said 'exactly' but thought better of it although it's probably accurate. DON'T SPEAK IN ABSOLUTES!!! I hate this, too. They are extremely rarely true. Especially when you are working out a problem with your mate. I get very angry about this. How can you focus on a problem or a behavior if you're not accurate? Specificity is vital to me. Also, don't state opinion or feelings as fact. I will argue the point vehemently when the perceived fact is incorrect. You have to say "I believe" or "I feel" because a feeling is a feeling and a fact is a fact.

You've written my EXACT thoughts on the matter. I'm often baffled at how NT's treat this as me being ridiculous. I'll NEVER understand this about society. I'm confident in

I also need specificity in instruction. If I'm asked to write up a particular document or set of documents at work, I need parameters so I know I am meeting expectations. If I am asked to write a draft Lesson Plan I set about doing exactly that. I've been designing and developing training courses for many years and know how to do it properly. When I ask for specific information necessary to do the job right, I'm often told that I'm making it too hard, going too deeply into details and so on. That seriously pisses me off. You're asking me to do a job wrong or incompletely. So there is an example of needing specific instruction. Does that make sense to anybody?

You've written my EXACT thoughts on the matter. I'm often baffled at how NT's treat this as me being ridiculous. I'll NEVER understand this about society. I'm confident in these absolutes, at least.

 

[asnlifecoach]

You've written my EXACT thoughts on the matter. I'm often baffled at how NT's treat this as me being ridiculous. I'll NEVER understand this about society. I'm confident in these absolutes, at least.

You said "I'm confident in these absolutes, at least."

Of course your statement will come true if you don't try to understand society. If you don't try, there is zero percent chance of changing it. I am sure that is very comforting. To know exactly what is going to happen. To NTs, there is excitement and wonder in the unknown.