I'm trying to write a book that has Autistic Characters in it

[Greatshield17]

Personally my advice would be to write a book that is readable first--a good novel--and then see if it works with your idea. It may not--doesn't make it a bad book. In fact I'd say it may make it a better book! You've got people, an interest in your own project, a setting, the unusual backdrop of what is basically a weird little parish sodality on steroids (People write novels taking place in coffee shops and offices and the foot plates of locomotives. Why not some tiny little-known fraternal organization?)

But everyone with a reasonable command of English and the disciple, I repeat discipline to learn the craft of writing, can write an excellent novel. It is storytelling. The human is a natural born storyteller.

Funny thing about novels, they go places you don't expect. If they're written to push a point they often aren't very good (case in point, Upton Sinclair's Wide are the Gates. Sinclair was a Socialist, and since that is almost a religion in its own right, he is incredibly preachy. It's a WWII novel where the hero is this awesome guy going around Europe like a 1940s version of James Bond kicking Nazi's asses all over Europe. But even with that, it still is terrible, not only because he still gets time to squeeze in a few yacht races and other hoity-toity bits of fluff.)

So... Why is it terrible? Not because it's socialist. A good socialist book means you don't have to agree with it but you can acknowledge the craftsmanship. But this one is a poorer-quality work because it's incredibly didactic. It also has spots that are incredibly tone-deaf, even for the 1940s. Pages 14 and 15 from the first edition (The Viking Press, New York) give this little gem:

This was in October of 1934, and Adolf Hitler had held power in Germany for not quite two years. He was the man who dominated Lanny Budd's thoughts; he was the new center of reaction in Europe, dangerous not merely because of his fanaticism, but also because he had in his hands the industrial power of Germany and was proceeding to turn it into military power. "It isn't only what he has done to the Jews," said the art expert. "He has done things much worse to the Socialists and to the whole labor movement in the Fatherland, but you don't hear so much about it in the capitalist press of France."

Well--I have a hard time taking a socialist novel seriously when its protagonist is a wealthy heir, but -- even though this is 1934, before the Kristallnacht,still it just reads very poorly--like "special-interest group playing victim." (And the book was written in 1943...) It has peak Marjorie Taylor Greene energy which is very odd indeed for a socialist novel. It sounds a bit like a persecution fetish. I've skipped the ultra-dramatic titles of the chapters, but with names like "Indoctus Pauperium Pati" or "When Duty Whispers", "Perils Did Abound" or "The Way to Dusty Death" -- It's a mess.
Also, the title is a Scripture quotation, interestingly enough. Sinclair paints a picture of WWII as biblical Armageddon, which is a neat parallel, but he never lets the reader forget it. And this overwrought pompous mess is something that makes the book unreadable.

I confess a certain detestation of Catholic fiction that is only equalled by my detestation of a large quantity of Catholics in the United States--the little tradlets who turned tradition into a weapon and who embody modern Donatism.

So because of that--I also collect Kathleen Norris novels which are also crap. Norris was a Catholic, and the highest paid female writer in the US during the early 20th century. She also cannot write worth a damn. In her novels, her good characters are very very good, and when they are bad they are tepid. I don't find this very gripping reading; they fit types and molds far easier than they should. Where Upton Sinclair had (by the '40s) taken to didactic stuff that lacked the character-driven punch of his older works, Kathleen Norris gives works where her characters have to carry the action, but they are not fit to do it. We get paper dolls instead of people. But this is a key component of chick lit and that's how it works out.

(Further contrast of Norris & Sinclair--you can see on the Wikipedia entry for Norris a picture of her giving the Bellamy salute. Yep, an American Fascist.)

Everyone in the Catholic publishing world is so caught up with the idea of truth in fiction that they sound less like Leon Bloy and more like Tucker Carlson. Not a good look on anybody. The more someone yells of truth the less one is inclined to trust them.

Personally--I think you run the risk of pulling a Sinclair or a Norris, by building An Appeal to Heaven as advertising for a movement or something. And honestly, I still think the "Common Lapsarian" stuff is not only utter bullcrap but also harmful to the cause you're promoting. But if you're looking to use it, then maybe work it in as the views of one of your characters. Make it where the reader can form his own ideas on it--as a viable means of approach, or the crotchet of a mind that definitely thinks outside the box, or something that is really confusing but which helps some people more than others (and I will leave it at that.) Build a novel first independent of a movement.

The thing about An Appeal to Heaven, it came almost exclusively from my intuition, I've never had that happen before, in none of my other literary works have I relied almost exclusively on my intuition, not even my fantasy series. (Which I may get back to in the distant future) This is why I'm so confident and determined to get this out there, it comes from intuition, and a good artist relays on his or her intuition.

 

[Gerontius]

Intuition, for your starting place, is as good as many and better than most. And most autistic people have the benefit of being very much more attuned to theirs due to the largely unfiltered way we tend to live...if that intuition isn't crushed out through social pressure etc.

Intuition is more of a match, though; you can't cook on it but you can maybe light a stove or a lamp or something with it and then do something creative. Ink is like intuition too...great stuff on paper but it needs direction and form, which is the difference between the Rorschach test and a sonnet. They say that writing cannot really be taught, but it can be learned--Always one bit at a time.

Hitting that fifth chapter is a decent milestone--That's the one that you said was the tipping point! So now comes the part where you get to knit this web back together. Drafting this thing out (even a regular draft, a very, very rough draft) is the key to when you finally get your last drafts done. The plot will be taking care of itself.

Oh, I almost forgot. Read allthetropes or TVTropes and try not to write those! Some are more archetypes (the Moses), some are artifacts (Victorian Novel Disease), some are annoyances (the Mary Sue character.) All are handy in the creative process. Some you need, many you don't, some are book-killers--which is for you to know, and your readers to find out.

 

[Greatshield17]

Thanks, here’s chapter 5 for anyone that’s interested, it needs a lot more detail but the structure is there at least:

Spoiler: Chapter 5

Chapter 5: One Of Us

Joseph’s bus pulled up to his usual stop and he stepped out, his shoes clanging on the folded wheelchair ramp as he disembarked. The autumnal trees gave a gentle glow in the late afternoon light, as he began his daily trek home, his backpack heavy with his laptop, binders and other office material. He zipped his coat that covered his business attire as the cool temperatures of the day slowly dipped more and more. His mood was dull from the day-to-day bustle but as his mind turned to home and his wife, it lightened and became joy-filled,

I really hope and pray that our relationship never becomes lukewarm. He thought as he contemplated the joy of simply being in the presence of such a kind-hearted woman.

As he thought about his wife and thought about the joy of being married to her, he heard a familiar barking followed briefly by a warm, cheerful voice:

“Hey! Joseph!”

Joseph turned, sure enough there was Christy and Lulu rushing up to him, Christy’s hair flying vivaciously as she ran. Remembering that he wanted to start getting back into the habit of petting Lulu, he quickly stretched out his hand and started rubbing the top of Lulu’s head. In the past Joseph had tried to be friendly with Lulu as he liked animals, he’d this by slowly stretching out his hand for Lulu to sniff, as he knew that dogs like to know the scents of others. But whenever Joseph did this, Christy seemed to get the impression that Joseph was scared of Lulu and would reassure him that Lulu wouldn’t bite, this in turn made Joseph quite angry and he opted not to be friendly to Christy’s dog anymore,

I’m not scared of you dog, I'm just trying to be friendly with her! But you know what, if you’re going to be like that, fine! I’m not petting your dog anymore, forget your dog! No pets for your dog!!

However, since last year Christy started to grow a better relationship with Joseph and his friends, Joseph made the resolve to start being friendly with Christy’s dog again.

“Jonathan told me the good news the other day, congratulations!” Christy said with delight.

“Oh?” Joseph responded, then his face lit-up as he realized what Christy was talking about,

“Yes she’s due in June!”

“It’s so wonderful I can’t wait!” Christy said delightedly, “I hope and pray your child turns out well, by God’s standards, not the worlds!”

“Thanks, we of course pray for our child everyday as well,” replied Joseph, “and will keep praying long after our child is born, it’s our job as parents.”

“Yes! Yes!” Said Christy excitedly, “I hope I can be that devout when I become a mom one day!”

“Well it might be a maternal instinct with you.” said Joseph he was smiling as he pictured an older more mature-looking Christy caring for her future children. Indeed this whole conversation had put Joseph in a very good mood, his mind was already filled with beautiful images of his wife with a benevolent smile on her face, her hands placed tenderly on her stomach, welcoming the tiny little human life within.

“Yeah,” answered Christy, there was a bit of pause and then she asked, “so, how has your day been?”

“Not much beyond the usual I don’t think.” Replied Joseph as he searched his memory to see if there was anything noteworthy or conversion-worthy.

“Say,” he began, “what do you know about that girl? That girl you met and said you thought, might be Autistic?”

Joseph’s wife had told her about the girl this morning,

One of us? He had asked in response,

Yes, one of us. His wife replied, her left hand was lifting her mug of coffee to her smiling lips to take a sip. While the fingers of her right hand were passing through her long black hair as she stimmed with it.

***

“Jonathan must have passed the news onto Monica.” Said Christy.

“Yeah I guess.” Replied Joseph, “So what do you know about her?”

“Well,” answered Christy, “not much from what I already told Jonathan, she was really shy, she never made eye-contact and she said things that sounded Autistic to me. Her name was Paula I believe.”

“Paula, well that alone is quite helpful, I now have a name to pray for.” That was why Joseph’s wife had mentioned this this morning, she had suggested that Joseph keep this girl in his prayers.

As he contemplated this, he placed his hand on the side of his face and felt the hair between his eye and ear.

There I go again, he thought, as he remembered yesterday, when he watched Jonathan stim with his facial hair and thought about how nice it would be to have a beard to stim on.

What is it about my face that a beard doesn’t suit me?

“Yes,” said Christy, “we should pray a lot, it would be great if she were to convert and join you!”

“Yeah,” responded Joseph.

There was a period of silence and then Joseph said,

“I want to continue this conversation but I don’t know what to say.”

“Oh I’m sure you can think of something,” said Christy, she chuckled reassuringly.

“Well,” replied Joseph, he thought about something that had been on his mind for a while.

Should I bring this up with her?

“Yes?” said Christy encouragingly.

“Well.. you see, I’ve been trying to pay attention to body language lately.” Explained Joseph, “and um, well I can’t help but notice, you still seem to be, a bit uncomfortable around, you seem, nervous.”

“Well,” Christy suddenly looked nervous and self-conscious, “you see, it’s about what happened last summer… Ever since last summer I can’t help but think about how well you can remember things and can remember things for months, it just makes me feel self-conscious, and worry about what you’ll remember about the things I’ve said and done, months after I’ve forgotten them.”

Joseph did indeed remember that even in question, indeed he could clearly remember sitting in the parish hall that day, and that crash that drew his attention to the scene. (his wife later told him what had transpired before) He remembered clearly seeing Christy, her hands on her mouth, her eyes wide and teary, closing in around her were various members of Claritas. Normally the Autistic parishioners of Canton’s St. Ignatius of Loyola Catholic Parish, wore their Sunday best, but that particular day they were wearing Claritan uniforms, they closed in on her like blue shadows. Soon standing over her was the female lodge leader, Monica, in the dimly-lit parish hall, her tall figure was almost as dark as her long black hair. Indeed the only bright part Joseph could see on her was her armband, it bore the Icelandic blue stripes, and the Claritas’ emblem itself, a red cross with the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton on the end, the Sacred Heart in the centre, shining the rays of the Divine Mercy into the Autistic Infinity symbol on the bottom, it was outlined in silver and bore the same blue stripes.

***

“Yes our memory is quite something,” replied Joseph, “you know, it causes difficulties for us too.”

“Oh?” replied Christy.

“Yeah,” said Joseph, “I’ll sometimes be troubled by memories of embarrassing things I’ve done in my past, I’ll agonize about what others must think of me because of those events, when chances are, they’ve probably long-forgotten those things.”

“I see,” said Christy, “that’s interesting, I always thought a great memory like that would be a great thing, I never stopped to consider all the consequences that come with having a memory like that.”

“Yes, yes,” replied Joseph, “it’s very much like Level-1 Autism itself, it’s a gift that comes with a price, there is no such thing as a free lunch.”

 

[Owliet]

Incidentally, if fictionpress is still around you can share your story here and receive more detailed feedback.

https://www.fictionpress.com/

 

[Greatshield17]

I've been advised both elsewhere and here to look into poetry, does anyone know any good poetry books to recommend?

 

[Greatshield17]

Just thought I’d share this excerpt from chapter 6, it’s bit wordy and I’ll probably clean it up, but I do like it nonetheless:

She was now approaching the intersection and could hear the cars passing by, the purrs of the engines muffled by the whoosh of them speeding by. She stepped up to the crosswalk and looked at the red stop light peering back at her from across the street, though now the autumn leaves matched the colour of the light, and it didn’t give Paula as much of a ‘peering’ impression as it did during other seasons, especially summer.

 

[Greatshield17]

In my novel, one of my key characters Monica, uses the argument from contingency to show Paula, an agnostic with a special interest in chemistry and to some degree physics; that God exists.

I'd like advice on how Paula would respond to this as an agnostic who has a special interest in chemistry and physics to some degree; as you can see below, so far she's turning to Quantum Physics in her response:

There was a pause for moment as the cars on the street softly woodshed by, after a loud truck passed by Monica then asked,

“So tell me what your questions are, regarding the Catholic Faith, you should start with your biggest.”

“Well,” answered Paula, “my biggest question is that I simply don’t know if God exists or not.”

“Ah, I see, well, let me show you something,” Monica pointed up over her head, “what’s going over our heads right now.”

Paula looked up, “I see power lines”

She felt a bit cautious now that she was aware that there were high-voltage cords hanging over her head.

“Yes,” replied Monica, “and what’s holding them up?”

“Telephone poles of course.” Indeed there was one right behind Monica and the girls, next some recycling bins and trashcans. More wires forked out from the pole, going this way and that.

“Yes,” answered Monica, “and what holds up the telephone poles?“

***

Christy watched Monica and Paula talked, it was quite interesting seeing Autistic people speak with each other. None of them made eye contact, when Monica and Paula first met each other, they were looking at each other, but not at each others’ eyes. Rather, they were taking each other in as a whole, examining each aspect of the other person’s physical appearance. But as they began talking, their eyes started to stare off into space, (except for of course, when the two looked up at the power lines, and the telephone poles behind each other) as they began to contemplate the things that were being discussed.

It reminded Christy a bit of documentary she once watched on cats, there was clip in the documentary where a kitten went up to a mother cat and mewed, the mother cat meowed in response but for some reason, she didn’t look at the kitten but stared-out else where, perhaps to keep an eye open for predators. She then bent her head down to lick her kitten. Seeing the tall Monica and the small, shy Paula communicate with each other, while not making eye contact, brought that scene to Christy’s mind.

***

“… Now, let me ask you this, does the earth have to be here?” Said Monica, “Could it just as easily, not be here?”

Ah yes, this is where I thought we were going with this. Thought Christy as she watched Monica press this question to Paula. She knew this argument well, but had a hard time following Monica’s long-winded discourse with Paula to bring her to it. She did appreciate though Monica using the details in their surroundings as a way to draw Paula’s attention to this.

“Um, I don’t understand what you mean by that.” Paula responded.

“Well these power lines and these telephone poles,” explained Monica, “do they have to be here? Could we just as easily imagine a world where these poles and wires aren’t here?”

“Um, I guess.” Replied Paula.

“And the same is true for the earth under are feet is it not?” Monica continued, “there’s no reason for the earth, crust, mantle and all; to exist, all of it could just as easily, not be here, correct?”

“Yeah,” answered Paula, “I don’t see any reason why the earth must exist when it could just as easily not exist.”

“Right.” Said Monica, “but what about the sun, the planets, the stars, is there anything out there that must exist? Does the universe itself have to exist?”

“You sound like you’re getting into the meaning of life type questions,” replied Paula, “you sound like you’re asking, why are we here?”

“It is an important question nonetheless.” Said Monica, “as I have just shown you by pointing out that everything you take in with your senses at this very moment, could just as easily not be then be.”

Paula paused for a moment as she considered this rather provocative statement, then answered, “well, it actually isn’t that simple, this goes out of my field of expertise, but we actually now know that particles themselves can pop in and out of existence at a whim.”

By the way, is the word "provocative" the right word to use here, to describe Paula's emotional response to Monica's statement? I've trying to think of another, better word to use but I can't think it up, does anyone else know of a better word?

 

[Greatshield17]

Does anyone have any advice on how to write NTs? I keep worrying about how to portray Christy, portraying her as either too flat or too much like an Autistic character who simply has a special interest in people and socializing. I can provide more excerpts of what I’ve got of her so far, but give me a bit because I’m a bit busy now.

 

[Suzette]

Believable charcters are always a challenge.

Try using some the the people in your real life for inspiration. Can you imagine what some of the real life people you know would do if put into your novel? Don't worry about if they seem NT or ND. Your charcters should feel like real people and real people often have quirks and ideas that can not be pidgeon holed.

 

[Greatshield17]

Believable charcters are always a challenge.

Try using some the the people in your real life for inspiration. Can you imagine what some of the real life people you know would do if put into your novel? Don't worry about if they seem NT or ND. Your charcters should feel like real people and real people often have quirks and ideas that can not be pidgeon holed.

Thanks, sorry it took me so long to get back to this, I’ve been really busy lately.

Does anyone have any advice on how to write NTs? I keep worrying about how to portray Christy, portraying her as either too flat or too much like an Autistic character who simply has a special interest in people and socializing. I can provide more excerpts of what I’ve got of her so far, but give me a bit because I’m a bit busy now.

I’ll post excerpts from what I’ve got later.

 

[Greatshield17]

Hi sorry, I've been really busy working on my novel. If I have time this Sunday, I'll post excerpts of Christy and how she's portrayed so far.

 

[Greatshield17]

Okay, here's some excerpts:

Spoiler: Christy in Chapter 6

Christy watched Monica and Paula talk, it was quite interesting seeing Autistic people speak with each other. None of them made eye contact, when Monica and Paula first met each other, they were looking at each other, but not at each others’ eyes, rather, they were were taking each other in as a whole, examining each aspect of the other person’s appearance. But as they began talking, their eyes started to stare off into space, as they began to contemplate the things that were being discussed. They did however, look like up at the power lines, and the telephone poles behind each other.

It reminded Christy a bit of documentary she once watched on cats, there was clip in the documentary where a kitten went up to a mother cat and mewed, the mother cat meowed in response but for some reason stared-out else where instead of look at her kitten, perhaps to keep an eye open for predators. She then bent her head down to lick her kitten. Seeing the tall Monica and the small, shy Paula communicate with each other, neither making eye contact, brought that scene to Christy’s mind.

[The parts I have scratched out, I think add too much detail to her thinking and thus, make her sound too Autistic]

“… Now, let me ask you this, does the earth have to be here?” Said Monica, “Could it just as easily, not be here?”

Ah yes, that’s where I thought we were going with this. Thought Christy as she watched Monica press this question to Paula. She knew this argument well, but had a hard time following Monica’s long-winded discourse with Paula to bring her to it. She did appreciate though Monica using the details in their surroundings as a way to draw Paula’s attention to this.

...

“That’s not exactly accurate,” replied Monica, “what quantum physicists are describing is not ’nothing,’ but empty space in which quantum fluctuations occur. But before the creation of the universe, there was no empty space, (that is, space-time) in which such a phenomenon could occur. Nothing you see, isn’t empty space, nothing is, exactly as the English word says it is, no, thing!”

“That’s not possible!” Objected Paula, “I cannot comprehend such a concept of nothing!”

“Of course you can’t,” answered Monica, “there is literally nothing to comprehend. And yet all of what we have observed in existence thus far, could just as easily not exist as exist, there is nothing we know of in the world that has to exist.”

There was a pause, Christy could tell from the look on Paula’s face that she was having a hard time processing what Monica had said. She couldn’t help but note the irony that Paula was having difficulty with Monica’s definition of nothing, when that was the easiest thing Christy could glean from this complex conversation.

...

“Yes, we’re your friends Catherine!” Said Christy, “you should never be afraid of being rejected by us!”

“I guess,” said Catherine, “and yet still, there’s still a lot of masking I need to do around you and your people. There’s still a lot you don’t understand about us, that we can’t explain to you.”

“But don’t you remember what Jonathan said?” Replied Christy, “none of us can really understand God as He truly is, but that doesn’t mean we cannot have a relationship with Him, we do! And that’s enough for me! I may have had a hard time following what you people were saying to Paula back there, but that doesn’t mean I reject you, not at all! I totally accept you and am more than happy to be friends with you!”

Oh Catherine, thought Christy, there’s so much of a loss of trust and human companionship in the world. I’m certain that this has to do with the loss of Faith and Love of God, and yet you clearly Love God and know more about Him and the Faith than I do. How can you still close yourself off like that?

“But do you always act that way?” Said Catherine, “I mean I know that you express this stuff differently but, sometimes I’ve seen you people act a certain way, and, it makes me nervous - not you specifically Christy, I heard about what you’ve said to Joseph the other day, you particularly have been really kind to us.”

Christy couldn’t help but feel nervous about Catherine bringing up her conversation with Joseph about what happened last summer, and the awkward way it which she added it into her response didn’t help.

...

“You know, it’s funny, when I think about how I got here, to St. Ignatius of Loyola’s I mean…”

Christy, didn’t normally talk like this in this manner, it was too personal and she preferred simple small talk. But she wanted to socialize and she knew that Autistic people preferred deep, meaningful conversations and after all, these were her friends, she had just talked to Catherine about opening herself up more and letting her true self shine.

...

“Yeah, we’re glad to have you for our friend Christy!” Said Grace, “it’s funny, I also had my own misgivings about this parish, I too found it stifling at first, though in quite a different way. I thought it would force me to conform and not let me be me. Now though, not only are people finally accepting me for who I am, but I myself actually have a better understanding of who am and what I can do to help others.”

Christy was quite surprised to hear her that, I mean, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, considering her personality and what’s she’s been through, but I was always under the impression that the Latin Mass was something all Autistic people love! Considering how it’s all, full of symbolism and focusing and so-on. Then again, considering a lot of non-Catholic Autistic people tend to be Leftists, I guess they would have reservations and suspicions towards the Latin Mass.

Here's a bit of her sort of "backstory" from chapter 7, I plan on changing chapter 7 once I've finished chapter 8 but this part will almost certainly remain (apologies for any grammar errors or the like in here):

Spoiler: Christy's "backstory" in Chapter 7

“No, no!” replied Christy, “I don’t mind, I just want to hear you and get to know you. So your parents were originally Calvinists were they?”

“Yeah that’s right,” answered Catherine, “descendants of the original Puritans. Say on the topic of Protestantism, there’s something I’ve been wondering about, I remember a couple of years ago, you’ve been asking around about apologetics against Protestant accusations to the Faith; what, what became of that? Are you still engaging in apologetics?”

“That? Oh yeah! That!” Replied Christy, “there’s actually a funny story regarding that!”

They were now crossing the bridge that went over the railroad tracks, a chain length fence was attached the bridge’s guard rails. It was still light out but the temperature was beginning to dip.

“A couple of years ago,” Christy began, “I was spending a lot of time online, and I found myself running into Protestants online who were attacking the Faith and bringing-up the usual objections. So, as you know, I started looking into apologetics to help me refute these accusations.

That in turn led me to a retreat I attended about three years ago which included among other things an in-depth Bible studies. We of course started with Genesis and when I attended that study, the lecturer pointed-out a verse that really struck me and changed everything, can you guess what that line was?”

“Uhm… sorry, no, I can’t guess anything.” Catherine replied softly.

“‘It is not good for the man to be alone…[2]” Said Christy.

“Oh!” Exclaimed Catherine.

“Yeah,” continued Christy, “the lecturer pointed-out how throughout the first chapter of Genesis, God kept seeing His works as good, and then here, for the first time, He declared that something was not good. Loneliness and isolation are not good.

“After pointing out that verse, the lecturer then pointed out how isolated we are in the modern world, social media has replaced face-to-face conversations, and people in society have lost a sense of trust for each other. We no longer have close-knit communities.

“After that retreat, I came back with a new outlook on things, I decided to spend less time online and more time at restaurants and cafes. I became more loyal to my friends and made a greater effort to be there for them. I wanted to do what I can as disciple of Christ, to bring people back together and ensure that no one is alone.”

“Wow, that’s great!” Said Catherine.

“Yeah,” replied Christy sadly, “although, I can’t help but feel guilty about what happened last year, I said a lot of cruel things to and about you, and had even worse thoughts about you, I really dehumanized you…”

“But we forgave you for what you’ve said and done,” Catherine told Christy, “Monica was clear about it! And Grace as well, and she forgave her parents despite what they put her through, if she can forgive her parents for what she want through in her past, you can bet that she meant it when said she forgave you for the stuff you’ve said!”

[2] Genesis 2:18 DR, full verse: “And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself.”

 

[Darkkin]

From a reader's standpoint apologizing for grammatical errors only heightens the awareness of them. (And they are within reasonable range, I've seen way worse. 26 snaffus in a 12 line poem, was by far the worst.)

From a writer's standpoint, these happen to everyone, but get in the habit of doing a rough proof read before posting a section of work.

One of the best editing tools any writer can develop is super low tech and free of charge. Read aloud. It bypasses the autocorrect connection between the eye and brain by bringing in two other variables to fact check. Speaking and listening. If it sounds or looks odd, chances are it needs attention. One thing I have noticed from the snippets I've read is a lot of redundany, flippant flippancy in the same sentence being one that stuck out, and a tendency toward overwriting. It is heavy weather reading.

And as a reader, even as an autistic, I'm having major trouble empathising with any of these characters. From a reader's standpoint they are very uncomfortable to read. The dehumanizing bit at the end of Chapter Seven isn't something even autistics say in conversation. Logically, who is that socially awkward? Especially if they are an NT that does not struggle with the social defecits of NDs.

Even the most socially awkward autistics have more tact.

Take a look at current faith based fiction. Writers need to be conscious their genres. Also look into books authored by autistics and consider what you find. One of the biggest things is readability and engaging a reader's empathy. This struggles on both fronts.

The problem is not the grammar. Straight up it is the believability of the characters. It reads almost more as an idealized conversation of religious tenets trying to be a novel, but in actuality, has anyone had or heard a conversation like Chapter Seven backstory? Readers frame their understanding of a story using their own context, they have no idea of the author's context and the presentation is problematic to adapt to.

Look into the Chronicles of Narnia, the poetry of Mary Oliver. These books are cannon in their genres because they have readability and they take complex topics like faith and make them approachable.

A nonfiction approach to the main ideas might be a smart and more workable way to go because most readers, read to escape, literary fiction, particularly faith based literary fiction, is a hard sell with readers. From a theological standpoint, whole different story. Let the format fit the idea, don't try to force an idea into a format.

I've critiqued other autistic writers and of those writers only a couple did as well with fiction/poetry as they did with nonfiction. With the others their nonfiction work was stellar, but the fiction despite huge effort, struggled with many similar issues I've seen here.

Write to your strengths, not an mask that doesn't quite fit. If you notice certain neurotype patterns sync with certain sects of belief. Write about it. Show the parallels. By going with a nonfiction approach you can showcase the information you clearly possess in a medium that is workable for readers. And faith from an autistic standpoint is not something there is much of. It is a unique voice. And with writing voice matters, it is like an author's finger print they leave to identify their work. Bring that to the table and play to your strengths, which is the theology itself.

 

[Greatshield17]

Would it be helpful if I made and posted character bios? Or perhaps even a summary of the plot?

 

[Darkkin]

Would it be helpful if I made and posted character bios? Or perhaps even a summary of the plot?

Not for me as a reader, I picked up enough to have that figured out via context. Story structure is pretty universal. It is the behaviours and actions of the characters that are highly unplausible. They do not make the reader want to hang around and read, frankly they were very off putting. And when trying to convey a message as complex as faith and autistic acceptance in a fictionalized format, it could potentially backfire in a huge way.

I'm trying to be objective with the wording of this, so bear with me. With fiction, readers are in the heads of the characters or eavesdropping on their interactions. In order for a reader to want to walk around with a character, they have to be either interested or comfortable with the characters. As a reader these characters made me very uncomfortable in both action and the artifice of the conversation.

e.g. That weird, almost itchy pressure you get on the back of the neck when you see, or worse commit, a huge social gaffe. Sinking through the floor becomes a viable option because you really don't want to be there.

Hypothetically, you want to say something, but are biting your tongue because you know what you want to say no matter how diplomatically presented is not going to be easy for anyone to hear. It is the paradox of kind verses right. One does no harm, but it also doesn't help. And help is the entire function of critique.

Doing the right thing usually has one of two outcomes. Typhoon level fall out and blow back due to opinions hitting vulnerable points. (Many authors take objective critique as a personal affront, and not as an opinion about the work itself.) The flipside is tangible understanding of the hardest lesson in writing. Thick skin is necessary and occasionally there is validity a reader's honest reaction. Granted it is only one opinion and therefore not a wholly reliable measure, but it is object to the work, not the author.

 

[Greatshield17]

So you’re saying it’s the dialogue and behaviour? Are you sure you don’t want character bios in case something is not getting across well with these characters?

 

[Darkkin]

So you’re saying it’s the dialogue and behaviour? Are you sure you don’t want character bios in case something is not getting across well with these characters?

Completely and profoundly sure. Literature and writing are a special interest, so I tend to be pretty reliable with my observations on this kind of thing. If I don't vibe with a character in their actual context, no amount of background and explanation is going to make me vibe with them. It is not because I missed something, it is because I noticed something.

 

[Greatshield17]

Okay, I'll see what I can do to change the dialogue.

 

[Greatshield17]

I know this won’t help with dialogue but I’m currently typing-out a plot summary to send to a friend of mine to see if she could help me out with things; @Thinx @Darkkin @Gerontius are you open to me PM-ing you (and anyone else who’s interested) my plot summary as well, so you can tell me what you think?

 

[Gerontius]

For me, not really, no. Thanks for asking. I don't want to make fun of you, but I don't want to have to read or evaluate this thing either.

1) I think your "Common Lapsarian" terminology is still a dumpster fire.
2) you've gotten exceptional advice from Darkkin so far, and would do better by listening to her and really discovering writing as an artistic endeavour for its own sake rather than a vehicle for ideology. I think, if you must, try starting over on Draft 2 if this book is going to go somewhere, intuition or not.
3) I stopped keeping up after the first couple chapters because I do not like forcing myself to love a manuscript, which is what I'd have to do to finish it.