I don't understand this logic...

[Naturalist]

Recently I was having a discussion with someone who knows me quite well, and whose opinion I value. I was expressing concern over my seven-year-old son's obsession with the military, particularly weapons. He said that was pretty typical of boys that age (even though my son says only two other boys in his grade are interested) and that he would be more concerned if my son could recite all the presidents and the dates of their terms of office. "That's the kid who is more likely to try to blow up the school," he said.

I was so stunned I didn't know what to say, except that I couldn't see how having a good rote memory and an interest in history was a recipe for becoming a mass murderer. Moreover, even as a joke it seemed really tasteless, because this person would have known that I had a great memory in grade school and frequently recited famous speeches to my history classes, and I didn't grow up to be violent.

Can anyone make sense of this comment? What response would you have given?

 

[Judge]

Interesting. I'm wondering if this person was somehow linking the process of rote memory with automatic responses and blind obedience. Where memorizing things is prioritized over actually thinking them through to achieve a rational conclusion. Not sure if I'd consider it a "logical" process though.

Where in such an intellectually simple environment, one might lament, "But I was only following orders".

Of course it might be a stretch to take rote memory in itself to such a conclusion. Hmmmm.

Then again perhaps this was just sarcasm and neurological prejudice- the former which would likely be lost on me from the outset. Might be interesting to pin him down on what he actually meant using his own words.

 

[ASD_Geek]

Can anyone make sense of this comment? What response would you have given?

That doesn't make sense to be either. He is equating being neurodiverse with really bad behavior. It seems like he's been conditioned to associate the two by someone. That's really sad, but this may be an opportunity to educate him on what neurodiversity really is.

 

[zurb]

On one hand, someone who has a good memory like that might be really bored at school, and thus become frustrated and angry - especially if they ended up in a remedial class because of their social difficulties.

On the other hand its much more likely to be lighthearted. To me it sounds like a joke (not that I'd find it funny either). He can make you out to be a mass murderer because he is sure you're not. If there was any hint you might be, it wouldn't be a joke. (See Elly's post in the literal thread. It's a joke because it's the opposite). He's trying to say not to worry, but in a lighthearted way. If you turned out ok, so will your kid. So it's really a kind of compliment in a round about way, right?

They are an NT right? Don't overanalyze their words. What were their eyes saying at the time. Oh, that's right, we're aspies lol

 

[Ylva]

Interesting. I'm wondering if this person was somehow linking the process of rote memory with automatic responses and blind obedience. Where memorizing things is prioritized over actually thinking them through to achieve a rational conclusion. Not sure if I'd consider it a "logical" process though.

Where in such an intellectually simple environment, one might lament, "But I was only following orders".

Of course it might be a stretch to take rote memory in itself to such a conclusion. Hmmmm.

Then again perhaps this was just sarcasm and neurological prejudice- the former which would likely be lost on me from the outset. Might be interesting to pin him down on what he actually meant using his own words.

I rarely say this, but you are overthinking it. (Well, maybe you're just being sarcastic, I can't really tell…) If a person said that to me, I would go on to think that they were simply putting neurodiverse people down to feed their own ego, which apparently works for some.

Can anyone make sense of this comment? What response would you have given?

I would have given a mocking smile or a blank stare depending on a lot of factors. "I am silently giving you the finger" seems like an appropriate response, but because of the boredom of having to hear the remark "have you no sense of humour?" ("not your sense of it, apparently!"), I would likely have kept quiet about that and just walked away.

 

[Judge]

I rarely say this, but you are overthinking it.

It's entirely possible! That's why I'd like to hear what the guy actually meant rather than speculate.

But I have seen articles about rote memory that led to some interesting conclusions.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

You asked a guy. Guns are manly. He thinks that would be normal for your son - sort of a "little man". That's why girls play with dolls and boys play with army men. It was a strange link about the knowing Presidents and their terms in office, but I attribute it to this guy thinking that a kid knowing that type of stuff would be considered "weird" or "nerd" and not doing what a "normal" boy is supposed to be doing according to society.

 

[AsheSkyler]

My first thought was:
fascination of guns = normal, fascination of presidents = not normal;
shooting targets = normal, shooting people = not normal;
thus, reciting presidents = risk of shooting people

 

[113]

I was expressing concern over my seven-year-old son's obsession with the military, particularly weapons. He said that was pretty typical of boys that age (even though my son says only two other boys in his grade are interested) and that he would be more concerned if my son could recite all the presidents and the dates of their terms of office. "That's the kid who is more likely to try to blow up the school," he said...
Can anyone make sense of this comment?

Do you live in the US? In many parts of this country, guns are respected and intelligence is not.

It might just be a phase. I wouldn't keep guns in the house with kids (children learn from adults), and I would try to encourage other interests. Maybe you could get him interested in traditional archery, since it overlaps a little bit, but doesn't have a culture of violence around it.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I would infer this guy isn't comfortable with the idea of neurodiversity and wants people to fit his stereotypes; if they don't act normal, they must be capable of anything. He swaps one stereotype for another.

 

[Datura]

Perhaps he is correlating nationalistic tendencies with a propensity for violent radicalism?
Then again, the nerd hate seems equally plausible.

 

[Randomperson]

Recently I was having a discussion with someone who knows me quite well, and whose opinion I value. I was expressing concern over my seven-year-old son's obsession with the military, particularly weapons. He said that was pretty typical of boys that age (even though my son says only two other boys in his grade are interested) and that he would be more concerned if my son could recite all the presidents and the dates of their terms of office. "That's the kid who is more likely to try to blow up the school," he said.

I was so stunned I didn't know what to say, except that I couldn't see how having a good rote memory and an interest in history was a recipe for becoming a mass murderer. Moreover, even as a joke it seemed really tasteless, because this person would have known that I had a great memory in grade school and frequently recited famous speeches to my history classes, and I didn't grow up to be violent.

Can anyone make sense of this comment? What response would you have given?

I think it was more of a tasteless joke. The types that go around assaulting their schools or other acts of domestic terror are the bullied with unstable minds and access to dangerous weapons and no respect for human life.

 

[Judge]

It's just unsettling to know that many haven't given much thought to differentiating neurodiversity from mental illness.

That it's easy for some to make offhand remarks like this that may very much bother some of us for good reason.

Neurology is inherently complex unto itself. Yet people seem so bent on stereotyping it to extremes. This isn't logical either, IMO.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I think it was more of a tasteless joke. The types that go around assaulting their schools or other acts of domestic terror are the bullied with unstable minds and access to dangerous weapons and no respect for human life.

And lack of respect for human in life partially due to getting bullied.
My first-hand experience with it, anyway. Bullying often looks to be an endless cycle of one dude picks on a weaker dude, so that dude takes it out another weaker dude, and it trickles on down from one person abusing their power to another until eventually somebody snaps and blows something up. And some people are just plain mean.

 

[shakeitup94]

My first thought was:
fascination of guns = normal, fascination of presidents = not normal;
shooting targets = normal, shooting people = not normal;
thus, reciting presidents = risk of shooting people

Basically what I was going to say.
I think It was a joke based on the principal that: Most people who blow up schools and the likes have been bullied or at least amongst ones I've heard about. Knowing military and weapons is socially acceptable, knowing presidents is not and therefore more likely to get one bullied and so forth. However I would imagine an extremely in depth knowledge of weapons and military and almost anything would get one bullied also.

I don't really understand this either I'm just assuming it's one of those dumb ass not thought through jokes aiming at degrading smart people and not a specific attack on a person or subject.

 

[Ylva]

However I would imagine an extremely in depth knowledge of weapons and military and almost anything would get one bullied also.

Who would be mad enough to bully someone who could talk for hours about how to assemble a sniper rifle blindfolded? I imagine the sort of people who bully to feel strong in the first place would go find someone else to pick on, maybe someone who didn't know how to turn a regular gun into an automatic.

 

[shakeitup94]

Who would be mad enough to bully someone who could talk for hours about how to assemble a sniper rifle blindfolded? I imagine the sort of people who bully to feel strong in the first place would go find someone else to pick on, maybe someone who didn't know how to turn a regular gun into an automatic.

See you would think wouldn't you but I've seen and heard of people bullied for all sorts of things. First remember bullies are for the most part not smart & don't think about the consequences such as bulling a boy who was the youngest of 4 brothers, or a 300lbs football player. And some bully for excessive knowledge on anything including knowing what they deem and excessive knowledge of sports rules and stats ect and how to fix a car engine and building a metal toolbox and welding it to the car. (All real examples)

 

[OliveOilMom]

What I took from it is that it's normal for little boys to like and play with army stuff and that a kid who has memorized the presidents and dates and things must have a whole lot of time on his hands and doesn't really like to play with things. You can play with army men and toy guns and toy tanks but there really isn't any way to play with presidents and historical date. There are lots of movies that kids like about military stuff but very few movies about factual historical stuff that they watch without being made to. I'm not talking about kids who have an aspie special interest in history, I'm talking about kids who have no special interest in history or presidents.

Kids with a lot of time on their hands may not have a lot of friends and end up bitter and with a chip on their shoulder and angry. Of course many times end up popular later in life, but it's the idea of a kid with nobody to play with who just sits around and reads of studies because he has nothing else to do that you think of as turning into a bitter and angry teenager.

Another thing he could have been thinking of is a kid who obsesses over things. By that I don't mean aspie obsession on a special interest I mean one who thinks he has to be absolutely perfect and please everybody all the time. When a kid like that has the pressure to be perfect building and building, he sometimes snaps under it and either gets self destructive our outwardly destructive and does something to hurt others.

I went to high school with a loner guy who was obsessively into the military. Everybody else stayed far away from him and thought he was weird, but I kind of liked him. Looking back now, I can see that with that combination of loner, guns and obsession, he would be considered a high risk for disaster. I kinda liked that. Then again I always liked edgy guys. I don't know what happened to him, he transferred to a public school the next year. I was pretty interested in military stuff too and talked on the phone to him a few times, but he never asked me out. He only wanted to talk about what kind of military career each of us should have (I never had one - PDQ'd for my thyroid) but he was the only other kid I knew who shared my special interest at the time which was surviving a nuclear war. He really liked that. I imagine that he either ended up a career military man or an off the grid conspiracy theory survivalist somewhere in Montana now. I do wonder what happened to him, he was a pretty cool kid. Of course that was back when kids could play army or cops and robbers on the playground and nobody saw it as a red flag when boys talked about how cool guns were.

 

[Naturalist]

OliveOilMom, that is a good point--that it is not so much WHAT the interest is, it is how the interest reflects one's relationship to others. If an interest in army stuff allows one to play with others on the playground, then it is deemed healthy. If the interest reflects the fact that one spends a lot of time alone, or is so "odd" that it causes others to avoid them, then it is perceived to be "unhealthy"?

I think it is great that you and your classmate were able to find some common ground through your "atypical" interest! He would be glad to know you look back fondly on your conversations.

 

[OliveOilMom]

OliveOilMom, that is a good point--that it is not so much WHAT the interest is, it is how the interest reflects one's relationship to others. If an interest in army stuff allows one to play with others on the playground, then it is deemed healthy. If the interest reflects the fact that one spends a lot of time alone, or is so "odd" that it causes others to avoid them, then it is perceived to be "unhealthy"?
.

I think so. Thats probably because it's assumed that most kids would rather play with other kids than spend time alone reading or studying, etc. It's usually taken as a given that when kids spend a lot of time alone it's not by their own choice. They are either sick a lot, have overprotective parents, are homeschooled, move a lot and don't get to know other kids very often, or aren't liked by other kids. It's usually that last one that comes to mind first though. Spending time alone because other kids don't like you is pretty hard. I did a lot of that growing up. I didn't have friends at all until I was 13, and even then I was still disliked by most people in the school. Now they don't remember not liking me though, a lot of those people are on my FB and we get along fine.

However, the whole "loner" thing is a kind of red flag too. Look at how serial killers are always described later. "He was a loner" is the most common thing I recall with the next being "He was always very quiet and polite". That doesn't target aspies but that certainly describes a lot of us, even though it describes a lot of NT's. There are probably a larger percentage of loner, quiet and polite aspie vs social and talkative ones than there are NT's. Thats probably where the idea comes from, not at any attempt to target aspies.