Dating: How can I get a girlfriend?

[Owliet]

Yes, it is concerning, it's a hallmark of an abusive/controlling relationship, possibly with a narcissist.

Yes.Exactly.


. @Markness : it doesn’t mean that those women dont want to be your friend but because of the men in their life, it is safer for them to not approach you or be perceived to be too overly friendly with you if they are in an abusive/controlling relationship. It may be a violent one and they may have not had the means to get away from it until it is too late. This type of relationship also happens for men too. So you also don’t want to be in one either.

There are some people who seem to see others as their property to do whatever they wish to. However, it may also be a possibility that considering the nature of a person’s relationship they may not realize that it is abusive and controlling either.

 

[Luca]

However, it may also be a possibility that considering the nature of a person’s relationship they may not realize that it is abusive and controlling either.

Yes, this point should also be emphasized. I didn't realize how toxic some of my friends were until after I had cut them out of my life (or they had disappeared.) In retrospect the friendships were very abusive and one-sided.
It's easy for people to blame and shame the victims of abuse and be like "Why did you stay?" or "How did you not see it?" but it's actually very complex and the victim might not know they're being abused or manipulated or gaslit until they get out of the situation and get to safety, process their trauma, and realize how many red flags there actually were.
And sometimes they're afraid to leave. Sometimes the consequences of leaving the relationship can be catastrophic.

I didn't realize how horrible some of my former friends or people I was hooking up with were until months or years later, and I know I shouldn't be placing all the blame on me, but I'm still (metaphorically) kicking myself for not picking up on the red flags at the time.

 

[Owliet]

Yes, this point should also be emphasized. I didn't realize how toxic some of my friends were until after I had cut them out of my life (or they had disappeared.) In retrospect the friendships were very abusive and one-sided.
It's easy for people to blame and shame the victims of abuse and be like "Why did you stay?" or "How did you not see it?" but it's actually very complex and the victim might not know they're being abused or manipulated or gaslit until they get out of the situation and get to safety, process their trauma, and realize how many red flags there actually were.
And sometimes they're afraid to leave. Sometimes the consequences of leaving the relationship can be catastrophic.

I didn't realize how horrible some of my former friends or people I was hooking up with were until months or years later, and I know I shouldn't be placing all the blame on me, but I'm still (metaphorically) kicking myself for not picking up on the red flags at the time.

Yes, I think it is important to know that these things can happen and know that there is no blame in this except with the perpetrator.

 

[1ForAll]

Yes, this point should also be emphasized. I didn't realize how toxic some of my friends were until after I had cut them out of my life (or they had disappeared.) In retrospect the friendships were very abusive and one-sided.
It's easy for people to blame and shame the victims of abuse and be like "Why did you stay?" or "How did you not see it?" but it's actually very complex and the victim might not know they're being abused or manipulated or gaslit until they get out of the situation and get to safety, process their trauma, and realize how many red flags there actually were.
And sometimes they're afraid to leave. Sometimes the consequences of leaving the relationship can be catastrophic.

I didn't realize how horrible some of my former friends or people I was hooking up with were until months or years later, and I know I shouldn't be placing all the blame on me, but I'm still (metaphorically) kicking myself for not picking up on the red flags at the time.

I'm sorry @Luca you were treated bad by all those persons. True friends should not treat persons like that. If anyone consistently resorts to critiquing, blaming, using manipulative tactics and distorting the facts, wanting to be victim instead, or if they show a need for too much attention, seem unstable or like backstabbers from what they say and do, never knowing one minute what you will get, I would stay away from those persons.

For those who were or are abused, of course it's often instinct to blame ourselves or accept more maltreatment towards us, or in other cases, some of us may have more difficulty separating fact from fiction or have a harder time picking up on nonverbal cues. In my case, I now pick up on behaviors and actions that I see as danger and a warning to stay away. Admittedly, even here on this forum, I see a few who seem like that.

I would like to tell thus all the forum here, Beware! Do not get too close to anyone here either, unless you know them well through reading all their posts. Don't assume anything. Friendliness on the surface can be fake or part of their manipulation. Look at the other times they seem very critical of their friends, pushy, picky, arrogant, attention seeking, shallow, unstable, and with statements about themselves and others that seem not true and inconsistent.

 

[Rodafina]

I would like to tell thus all the forum here, "Beware! Do not get too close to anyone here either, unless you know them well through reading all their posts. Don't assume anything. Friendliness on the surface can be fake or part of their manipulation.

Completely agreed, and thank you for highlighting this @1ForAll, that is true and it is happened to me… Even though many people think I am defensive and cynical and not very impressionable, smart folks can infiltrate your loneliness with offers of friendship that are intended to control you. I don’t understand it, but it happens even here, and wariness is important.

 

[Luca]

The only people on here that I trust and consider to be my friends are ones who have been around a long time and post consistently, and mostly people that I have also had private conversations with.
I'm of the mindset that you don't really know someone until you've talked to them one on one.
Also, beware of people who consistently broadcast extremist viewpoints or like to bait people into illogical arguments.

 

[1ForAll]

Completely agreed, and thank you for highlighting this @1ForAll, that is true and it is happened to me… Even though many people think I am defensive and cynical and not very impressionable, smart folks can infiltrate your loneliness with offers of friendship that are intended to control you. I don’t understand it, but it happens even here, and wariness is important.

Thanks @Rodafina. My concern is that one or more may have come here to this forum thinking members here are easy prey and gullible. There are a lot of inconsistencies in their stories. My hyperfocus is on human behaviors, and I can often sift through fact versus fiction. I hope I am wrong there, but I do not think so from what I see.

 

[Owliet]

One thing I learned as a teenager was to never fully trust anyone on the internet. Granted, this came after receiving a stalking which jumped from each place I was on online, so trust is not absolute.

 

[Rodafina]

My concern is that one or more may have come here to this forum thinking members here are easy prey and gullible. There are a lot of inconsistencies in their stories. My hyperfocus is on human behaviors, and I can often sift through fact versus fiction. I hope I am wrong there, but I do not think so from what I see.

I agree with your assessment @1ForAll, and I’m sorry to say I don’t think you’re wrong. We post very personal things here and we are literally seeking help. Opening up about things like like addictions, depression, and loneliness opens us up to people whose intentions are not in line with what we want and how we want to live our lives.

I would also make the recommendation to keep contact over the forum until the trust has really grown and been tested. Being lured off the forum into communication over emails or other ways does not allow us the opportunity to seek help from the moderators and report problems.

If someone wants to begin emailing you, I would think twice about it, but only because I was burned by that.

 

[Rodafina]

One thing I learned as a teenager was to never fully trust anyone on the internet. Granted, this came after receiving a stalking which jumped from each place I was on online, so trust is not absolute.

We all have to learn our lessons the hard way… It’s so frustrating. I too am not so trusting because of experiences.

But curse all those manipulative people out there because giving trust freely is such a beautiful thing, and it makes me a upset with the world that we must learn to build a protective wall around ourselves.

@Owliet, I guess it’s good for us to share our experiences, in case anyone else is going through it too.

 

[tree]

Thanks @Rodafina. My concern is that one or more may have come here to this forum thinking members here are easy prey and gullible. There are a lot of inconsistencies in their stories. My hyperfocus is on human behaviors, and I can often sift through fact versus fiction. I hope I am wrong there, but I do not think so from what I see...

I agree with your assessment @1ForAll, and I’m sorry to say I don’t think you’re wrong. We post very personal things here and we are literally seeking help. Opening up about things like like addictions, depression, and loneliness opens us up to people whose intentions are not in line with what we want and how we want to live our lives.

I would also make the recommendation to keep contact over the forum until the trust has really grown and been tested. Being lured off the forum into communication over emails or other ways does not allow us the opportunity to seek help from the moderators and report problems.

If someone wants to begin emailing you, I would think twice about it, but only because I was burned by that.

Remember,
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[Owliet]

I would also make the recommendation to keep contact over the forum until the trust has really grown and been tested. Being lured off the forum into communication over emails or other ways does not allow us the opportunity to seek help from the moderators and report problems.

If someone wants to begin emailing you, I would think twice about it, but only because I was burned by that.

I agree with this. It was one of the issues that I experienced when I was younger — I gave my Messenger contact and then didn’t really know that because I made the MSN messenger to talk with classmates that i had personal information on it (like my full name and family name). Because this guy (who was is his early 20’s when I was 16) decided to then find my other socials (like this art site and another ASD forum, and then continued to harass me on other places when I got facebook at university, yeah….it was a long time. The thing that upset me was that because Of my family name and mentioning what my dad did For work, he was able to get my dad’s work email and email him to try to persuade my dad that he was such a good friend, and that he wanted more but I was not allowing him to give time. Thank god, it stopped. I blocked him, moved all over the place, deleted my other accounts. And he is the one with a police record for harassing another girl. However, at that point, the idea that someone could be extremely manipulative and go to such actions, makes it more satisfying that he got arrested but infuriating that when I was reporting it to mods, to his friends who also sent me messages and even when he managed to get my haus phone and shouting at him to leave me alone, no one believed me and thought he was super nice. But I will never give out my email to anyone when it’s not for something work related.

@Owliet, I guess it’s good for us to share our experiences, in case anyone else is going through it too.

Agreed.=)

 

[Jordy]

The only people on here that I trust and consider to be my friends are ones who have been around a long time and post consistently, and mostly people that I have also had private conversations with.
I'm of the mindset that you don't really know someone until you've talked to them one on one.
Also, beware of people who consistently broadcast extremist viewpoints or like to bait people into illogical arguments.

Also beware of the people who hide their bad side the best.

 

[VictorR]

Great discussion here.

Yes, this point should also be emphasized. I didn't realize how toxic some of my friends were until after I had cut them out of my life (or they had disappeared.) In retrospect the friendships were very abusive and one-sided.
It's easy for people to blame and shame the victims of abuse and be like "Why did you stay?" or "How did you not see it?" but it's actually very complex and the victim might not know they're being abused or manipulated or gaslit until they get out of the situation and get to safety, process their trauma, and realize how many red flags there actually were.
And sometimes they're afraid to leave. Sometimes the consequences of leaving the relationship can be catastrophic.

I didn't realize how horrible some of my former friends or people I was hooking up with were until months or years later, and I know I shouldn't be placing all the blame on me, but I'm still (metaphorically) kicking myself for not picking up on the red flags at the time.

Especially challenging are the situations where there's a dependency (often financial, but emotional is quite common as well) where the victim may seemingly have no choice, even after recognizing signs of trouble, but to remain.

And many of us find ourselves at intersections where we are especially vulnerable.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

Also beware of the people who hide their bad side the best.

How would you know that someone is hiding their bad side if it is hidden? Do you mean people who seem "too" nice and pleasant?

Do you think that modularity and plasticity in the brain means human can mold and shape their psychology and behavior into anything they want without restriction?

As someone who is also in the biological sciences, I completely agree with what @Gerald Wilgus wrote regarding evolution and society. I don't think humans can mold their psychology into anything without restriction, but I also don't think that's what Gerald is saying. In the post he was responding to, a person who is untrained in even cursory genetics was making sweeping statements about how evolution had shaped us to prefer marriage over dating. In her post however, she showed little understanding of how evolution worked, or how our thinking is shaped by our culture, both of which has been studied extensively. I can tell you from my own experience that it gets very tiring to see people coming up with answers related to your field to fit their worldview without a cursory glance at available facts which are readily available.

In this specific instance, marriage itself is in an evolutionary sense much too young to have had much of an effect on our brain function. Several societies used to (and some still do) feature polyamory or are very relaxed about sexuality and switching partners which directly contradicts her view. People growing up in one type of society tend to think their way is the "right one", and the other societies are the strange ones. Conversely, people grabbed as infants who are plopped into a different cultural surrounding adapt comprehensibly to their new environment and see their original "genetic" society as the strange one.

In her second reply, she seemed to think evolution works in a Lamarckian sense, where how much you use an organ or how you use it shapes how it is inherited into the next generation. This theory has been extensively researched and ultimately discredited, though there might be some grain of reality to it if germ line cells can be epigenetically modified as a response to the outer environment. Even this has not been credibly observed and would only have a very small effect even if it was there. It would not be based on use as Lamarck suggested, but might be affected by famine, trauma and large environmental effects like that.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Is the act of having sex not physiological? Do you think that physical attraction is all nurture?

What gives you the idea that Sex wouldn't rely on physiology. Libido and attraction, while hormone related, have as a large component, mental activity. Sexual selection is also a thing - look up the Red Queen hypothesis and sexual dimorphisim. I was answering the blatantly stupid assertion; "the human body is not engineered to handle . . . multiple sexual partners."

This is true but observed facts always say something about the past. Anytime you use some in the past observed empirical fact, and you leap from that to making a conclusion about a new situation in the future, you are bridging from the known into the unknown with philosophy and reason. Do you think we should not use philosophy and reason to make decisions or conclusions?

Observable and measurable data (fact) is rarely a historical science, and the models derived from them must be predictive shown by future observation (bending of spacetime) or open up avenues of productive knowledge (Evolution requiring modes of inheritance and change which opened up the study of genetics). Reason, yes, but aristotelian logic, NO.

Do you think that modularity and plasticity in the brain means human can mold and shape their psychology and behavior into anything they want without restriction?

Of course not. But, the brain is subject to emergent properties. This was a great rift between Wallace and Darwin. Wallace believed that every property must be the result of natural selection while Darwin asserted correctly that some things are only along for the ride, but can be recruited in the future if selected pressure is applied (The Panda's Thumb). Think of modules for upright walking and speech and cultural transmission and combined with other modules and you have a conscious, self-aware, tool using, animal whose inventions are communicated, learned, and transmitted at amazing speed. [Wouldn't it be nice if ASD was an emergent, culturally-induced, property?)

 

[Jordy]

Observable and measurable data (fact) is rarely a historical science, and the models derived from them must be predictive shown by future observation (bending of spacetime) or open up avenues of productive knowledge (Evolution requiring modes of inheritance and change which opened up the study of genetics). Reason, yes, but aristotelian logic, NO.

Well, show me an instance of data that has been observed in the future? The only fact is that these studies held in the past had the results that they had, superimposing a model into them, and then using that model to make a prediction doesn't produce another fact. It's a fact that the sun came up yesterday, it's not a fact that it will tomorrow, its a mere assumption.

What gives you the idea that Sex wouldn't rely on physiology. Libido and attraction, while hormone related has a large component ofmental activity. Sexual selection is a thing - look up the Red Queen hypothesis. I was answering the blatantly stupid assertion; "the human body is not engineered to handle . . . multiple sexual partners."

I don't think that, it seemed like you did, that's why i asked. You stated that sex can be free of physiological restraints. How can something be physiological but not be restrained by physiology?

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Well, show me an instance of data that has been observed in the future? The only fact is that these studies held in the past had the results that they had, superimposing a model into them, and then using that model to make a prediction doesn't produce another fact. It's a fact that the sun came up yesterday, it's not a fact that it will tomorrow, its a mere assumption.

How the hell are predictions tested? Rehashing old data does not do it. One must confirm using independent data collected in the moment after the original model. The Space curvature was confirmed by observing stars during a solar eclipse that should have been behind the sun. Or through this level of sophistication NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment | Science Mission Directorate It gives new meaning to the drag of gravity, predicted by relativity . . . . and in the past we were unable to use an entire planet as part of measuring the curvature of spacetime.

 

[Jordy]

How the hell are predictions tested? Rehashing old data does not do it. One must confirm using independent data collected in the moment after the original model. The Space curvature was confirmed by observing stars during a solar eclipse that should have been behind the sun. Or through this level of sophistication NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment | Science Mission Directorate It gives new meaning to the drag of gravity, predicted by relativity . . . . and in the past we were unable to use an entire planet as part of measuring the curvature of spacetime.

Doing measurements at diffirent time intervals that support the same theory, only shows that theory remained valid within those time intervals, not that it will also hold at greater time interval into the future. Again, that it will continue to hold is an assumption you make on the ground of philosophical reasoning.

How would you ever show that the past resembles the future? Because it did so in the past? That is circular reasoning.

 

[TheName]

Tinder. Get the Thumb sore but carry on swiping