Horrible, severe, life altering problem that never ends

[Fino]

Maybe you can explain to them what happened without ever using the words "gay" or "homosexual" or any reference to their sexuality. Just say a man sexually assaulted you. You don't need to label them.

Or maybe you can just not mention any of that trauma and just get help with the things you said you don't get to because of the gays.

 

[Jumpback]

During my divorce travails, l had a Los Angeles gay male attorney which didn't work out. But he said the domestic abuse with gay couples was way worse then it was with straight couples. Which really surprised me.

Did you ever get a chance to confront this couple and tell them it was very wrong to assault you? Since getting counseling hasn't paid off because nobody takes you seriously. It sounds like a date rape. I came through that at a very early age. It seems that everyone has judged you instead of treating you as someone who needs to process this trauma. It really doesn't matter what the sexual orientation was, more importantly - you were assaulted when you were incapacitated and that is traumatic.

Lots of things are worse in the gay community, including sexual assault. See here
How Gay Men Normalize Sexual Assault

What seems to happen is if you are a gay guy getting sexually assaulted by another gay guy, nobody cares and nothing happens. But if you are a naive straight liberal guy hanging around gay guys, you get accused of 37 things and then nothing happens

I tried to confront main guy once, he tried to punch me but accidentally punched this girl everyone liked, so my girlfriend was then not only mad at me for cheating in a gay threesome with her friends, but for "making her friend" punch this girl. This was not a fun time for me

 

[Jumpback]

Maybe you can explain to them what happened without ever using the words "gay" or "homosexual" or any reference to their sexuality. Just say a man sexually assaulted you. You don't need to label them.

Or maybe you can just not mention any of that trauma and just get help with the things you said you don't get to because of the gays.

This is truly the solution. It's just that if I go to a psych or something, there is "what seems to be the problem?" and "why weren't you diagnosed with this long ago?" Types of questions

I sort of just have to get it through my fat head that I have to lie, lie and lie some more, because if I mention the problem, everyone is going to be upset and things will stop.

 

[Aspychata]

That was a excellent article because it's a sensitive subject. Its sad you can't say the truth but therapy may help you.
I didn't aknowlege date rape until my late 40's, that this happened to me. But the weight that you carry on your shoulders is heavy.

 

[Jumpback]

That was a excellent article because it's a sensitive subject. Its sad you can't say the truth but therapy may help you.
I didn't aknowlege date rape until my late 40's, that this happened to me. But the weight that you carry on your shoulders is heavy.

Thanks for reading that, I think it’s really good too, both explaining what gay men have to deal with and what I have had to deal with as an incredibly naive straight guy

Just for reference, here is the article again
How Gay Men Normalize Sexual Assault

But it’s like other places or to other people I might try to explain using an article titled “How Gay Men Normalize Sexual Assault”and I am already in big trouble because people assume this is KKK level right wing hate. Like people just go on the attack for my hate or something without even opening the article. But this it just isn’t hate, it’s a thoughtful article written by a gay man in a gay online site talking about issues within the gay community, which I also ended up dealing with for being incredibly naive and very likely being high functioning autistic

Nothing drives me more insane than other people assuming there is some secret something which proves how awful I am, and people do do this with me and this subject. But if people actually like read the link I posted or listen to what I am saying, there are no secret anything’s going on.

It’s like all minorities commit more crimes or behave worse in one way or another than majority populations, because they just do. Reality is not something that must be punished. But if people actually stop punishing and accusing me for long enough to hear me, they might get that I understand that *the reasons that minorities do more wrong* is due to increased pressure and not feeling like they have a say in the greater system and because minorities are oppressed

Like I just do not know, if something happens that seems important, I try to figure out why this happened, it becomes incredibly stressful and frustrating when I have no bad intent yet people start piling on me

 

[Jumpback]

That was a excellent article because it's a sensitive subject. Its sad you can't say the truth but therapy may help you.
I didn't aknowlege date rape until my late 40's, that this happened to me. But the weight that you carry on your shoulders is heavy.

I’m so sorry that you had to endure date rape

I think maybe what kind of happened is that there was this unknown after women became more independent in about the 1910s until the 1980s when culture shifted from women should not be unaccompanied to women being independent and beliefs lagged behind reality. Both not making woman aware that date rape might occur and then blaming women for being date raped.

 

[Aspychata]

Sorry you endured the trauma you went through.

 

[Jumpback]

Sorry you endured the trauma you went through.

Thank you, seriously

But it isn’t really even that events were that traumatic, it’s more like people never bothered to do like you have done and felt bad for me. Things were kind of just straight from getting sexually assaulted, to anger at me or negative ideas about me and so on. My actual trauma from actual events is not that bad, it’s just like no one could take time away from their extreme advocacy for gay rights to see that I was a victim of a crime and so on.

 

[Jumpback]

Sorry you endured the trauma you went through.

I do not know what things I have to deal with are guy things and what are gay things. Like women are far more likely to attempt suicide, but men are far more likely to commit suicide. The difference obviously being that women are treated more sympathetically than men.

It’s like women have a lot more real world problems to deal with, but whatever problems men have are usually not taken seriously

 

[Aspychata]

This is truly a paradox that is never discussed. Men who are taken advantage of are also made to feel it is their fault and or they asked for It, and or they should man up and deal with it. But from what l read it is very difficult for men to deal with.

Woman are desensitized to some extent by society, l knew later my odds would be high for getting harassed or assaulted or molested. And l pretty much experienced all of that so that is now my identity. However, l warned my daughter to protect her. You haven't been desensitized, so for men, l can only assume it is a more emotionally raw experience and more shocking to the psyche and something that you would never expect in your lifetime. Sadly for woman- 1 out of 5 (guessing) will be raped.

But it's good you are here, wrangling these emotions of being personally violated.

 

[Jumpback]

Anyway, as maybe people who might look at these things might say, I am sensitive but absolutely brutally honest

If I am not insensitively honest I feel like I am lying

Like as a totally separate issue, if someone asks me me if blacks rob more liquor stores than whites, I am just going to say ‘yes’ and then go into a probably very politically correct explanation of why I believe this to be true. It ‘s maddening to me why whites who lie and go move to the suburbs and they lie some more about their “white flight” might be better off for all their lying than I am

It’s like, to me, the most likely explanation of why people are white and black has to do with vitamin D from the sun in Northern climates getting through the skin or something. There is no bad intent when I say people X do Y, I just see these things as facts and I also see the reasons why people X might do Y

But it’s like there is some secret game people play where lying, lying and more lying works 100 times better than actually trying to solve the problem

Like the honest person might get ganged up on, even if they are far more accimmmidating than others, but the liar gets all sorts of advantages for playing the game right and lying at the correct times and never has to think things through. This is very frustrating for me

 

[Thinx]

I am sorry for what you have been through, and I get what you mean on a number of levels. One thing I have found helpful that may be useful is when I realised that in the NT world, everyone has agendas, apparently. They do not have a concept of people who say things without agendas.

I had a friend who spent years trying to convince me, everyone has agendas, and I d say, no, they don't and give myself as an example, and years on, she said, you actually really don't have agendas , do you?

And I tumbled to it that this was unusual, and by then I realised I was autistic, and so I realised that was a part of it. I am simple and direct. If I was gay, I would say I am gay (side point, as it happens, I am gay) or if I am wondering if I am gay, I would say that. I wouldn't deny it. I did years of therapy where afterwards I realised it would all have gone much quicker and more straightforwardly if therapist's realised this difference and didn't wait and wait and wait for my underlying agendas and repressed stuff to surface.

What was a bit amusing, though not in a good way, in my case, was that when I realised I was gay, the therapist I d been working with for several years on issues about how my family was etc etc turned out to be homophobic. He was suddenly awful to me, made me try to explain about being gay to the whole group, when I knew nothing about it, and they all didn't either, and asked me stuff like, should They be allowed to have children? I left. Newly out, with no support. Thanks, man.

So in relation to therapy, I d say, the NT concept of therapy may not suit us. Though over the years I did a lot of progressive stuff, but latterly I did it independent of the therapy mainstream, through cocounselling, where people witness and counsel each other.

In relation to NTs and their agendas, now I try to realise that most people I speak to will assume I have agendas, and treat me as if I do, because in the NT world, everyone does. It's part of how they are.

 

[Jumpback]

This is truly a paradox that is never discussed. Men who are taken advantage of are also made to feel it is their fault and or they asked for It, and or they should man up and deal with it. But from what l read it is very difficult for men to deal with.

Woman are desensitized to some extent by society, l knew later my odds would be high for getting harassed or assaulted or molested. And l pretty much experienced all of that so that is now my identity. However, l warned my daughter to protect her. You haven't been desensitized, so for men, l can only assume it is a more emotionally raw experience and more shocking to the psyche and something that you would never expect in your lifetime. Sadly for woman- 1 out of 5 (guessing) will be raped.

But it's good you are here, wrangling these emotions of being personally violated.

But, see, none of my upset comes from me, it all comes from other people. I have never had any confusion that I got sexually assaulted and got ganged up on. I never kept anything secret or repressed anything, I got repeatedly ganged up on and attacked for being sexually assaulted.

To me, it’s kind of like computers can do all these things that no human can do. But computers can’t function as entities in the real world.

I took this research psych class and there was talk about how the human brain organizes something with four legs and a seat as a chair, so any time a human has to deal with a chair looking thing, humans know it is a chair and know that it is safe to sit on

I think it’s kind of like if a guy has certain problems or if gays misbehave, no one has ever heard of these things before and they sound very strange and suspicious and since nobody has heard of such things, so they discount them.

But then you are also right that women have lots more real more issues and so on.

Like I think it’s a little like you had to deal with with date rape, and I am very, very, very sorry if this comes across as offensive. But it feels like a bit like I am in 1954 and complaining about date rape, and people are like “what the hell” because to others, the problem just does not exist.

 

[Aspychata]

Exactly. Men aren't heard at all. But l would think your trauma is even more frustrating when society denies it happened.

 

[Jumpback]

This is truly a paradox that is never discussed. Men who are taken advantage of are also made to feel it is their fault and or they asked for It, and or they should man up and deal with it. But from what l read it is very difficult for men to deal with.

Woman are desensitized to some extent by society, l knew later my odds would be high for getting harassed or assaulted or molested. And l pretty much experienced all of that so that is now my identity. However, l warned my daughter to protect her. You haven't been desensitized, so for men, l can only assume it is a more emotionally raw experience and more shocking to the psyche and something that you would never expect in your lifetime. Sadly for woman- 1 out of 5 (guessing) will be raped.

But it's good you are here, wrangling these emotions of being personally violated.

I am very, very sorry if things I say come across as insensitive. I’m beginning to lose my ability reason, but like for most of human history, women who were raped by their husbands weren’t really raped. Horrific, terrible things happened to women, and these things were blamed on the women

I do not know how to explain, but spreading hate is not me, but being brutally honest is me

 

[Jumpback]

Exactly. Men aren't heard at all. But l would think your trauma is even more frustrating when society denies it happened.

Yeah, women have gotten screwed throughout history, but men have too. Like imagine what it was like to get shot in the civil war and at the age of 17 and getting your leg cut off because there was nothing to combat gang green. Then once the war was over having to compete for the affections of women to find a nice wife against men who had two working legs

It’s just a little like when it comes to LGBT issues, there is so much focus on things done wrong to gays and transgenders, etc and such a massive social push to punish naysayers, that I feel like I have gotten lost in the shuffle. Like I was inconvenient and am still inconvenient, so I make a great scapegoat to blame for things

 

[Jumpback]

I am sorry for what you have been through, and I get what you mean on a number of levels. One thing I have found helpful that may be useful is when I realised that in the NT world, everyone has agendas, apparently. They do not have a concept of people who say things without agendas.

I had a friend who spent years trying to convince me, everyone has agendas, and I d say, no, they don't and give myself as an example, and years on, she said, you actually really don't have agendas , do you?

And I tumbled to it that this was unusual, and by then I realised I was autistic, and so I realised that was a part of it. I am simple and direct. If I was gay, I would say I am gay (side point, as it happens, I am gay) or if I am wondering if I am gay, I would say that. I wouldn't deny it. I did years of therapy where afterwards I realised it would all have gone much quicker and more straightforwardly if therapist's realised this difference and didn't wait and wait and wait for my underlying agendas and repressed stuff to surface.

What was a bit amusing, though not in a good way, in my case, was that when I realised I was gay, the therapist I d been working with for several years on issues about how my family was etc etc turned out to be homophobic. He was suddenly awful to me, made me try to explain about being gay to the whole group, when I knew nothing about it, and they all didn't either, and asked me stuff like, should They be allowed to have children? I left. Newly out, with no support. Thanks, man.

So in relation to therapy, I d say, the NT concept of therapy may not suit us. Though over the years I did a lot of progressive stuff, but latterly I did it independent of the therapy mainstream, through cocounselling, where people witness and counsel each other.

In relation to NTs and their agendas, now I try to realise that most people I speak to will assume I have agendas, and treat me as if I do, because in the NT world, everyone does. It's part of how they are.

Thanks, this is helpful.

See, to me, this is more like someone kicked a red kick ball at me and there is endless things about what the real explanation for someone kicking a ball at me is. Like someone just kicked a red ball at me, that’s just all that happened. It’s not confusing, it’s not hard, but people always believe like this red ball significies 47 secret things or my belief that a red ball was kicked at me is evidence of another 14 things wrong with me and so on.

Like it’s not even a pro gay or anti gay anything, it’s more like ‘neurotypicals’ (I put in quotes because I have not received an official diagnosis) beliefs and agendas and drives confuse everything.

It’s like when I talk about myself, I am just talking about myself. When I try to explain, I am just trying my best to be rational and even handed and to be brutally honest, because if I am not brutally honest I feel like I am lying. There just is no secret anything. There just isn’t. But everyone assumes there must be endless secret things going on in my head driven by repressed this or hatred driven by that or delusions or endless other things. But none of these things are real. What I say is what I mean, but nobody seems to just take me at face value, but then I get accused of secret things that just do not exist, because nobody believes me

 

[paloftoon]

Do you live in a rural area? Maybe you should consider moving to a very different rural area or preferably a city or suburb where there would be more diversity and more support to find most likely. It's a big change, but many changes will probably be much more positive for you than where you are at now.

 

[Pats]

Yeah, I kind of think that one thing journalists might Somewhat agree with is that there was something better when Walter Cronkite presented things. Everyone gets stuck in this giant argument and is forced to take sides.

Like is it even possible to be a reporter without aligning oneself with the right or left these days?

It's more than just right or left - you see articles published about a mother who lets her son use the bathroom outside the store because the store did not have public restrooms - and asking for your opinions. It's all stupid stuff. Even many of the headlines starts with "Do you think" this person was justified. The world has become a juror of everything anyone does. If I want to drink a big gulp or smoke a cigarette on the side lines away from everyone it's my own business, but I'm risking headlines asking everyone if my actions were right or wrong. So with this kind of attitudes, we are all being judged in everything we do. And the majority is going to stand behind those people they happen to be fighting for at the time no matter what. And right now, LGBT is such a big battle that anything derogatory is going to get shot down. If it was a school teacher or a politician they would believe you. I'm really sorry all this bad stuff happened to you and I'm more sorry that there are so many people out there that won't validate you so you can work through it and get on with life.

 

[Jumpback]

That was a excellent article because it's a sensitive subject. Its sad you can't say the truth but therapy may help you.
I didn't aknowlege date rape until my late 40's, that this happened to me. But the weight that you carry on your shoulders is heavy.

Thanks for reading that, I think it’s really good too, both explaining what gay men have to deal with and what I h

It's more than just right or left - you see articles published about a mother who lets her son use the bathroom outside the store because the store did not have public restrooms - and asking for your opinions. It's all stupid stuff. Even many of the headlines starts with "Do you think" this person was justified. The world has become a juror of everything anyone does. If I want to drink a big gulp or smoke a cigarette on the side lines away from everyone it's my own business, but I'm risking headlines asking everyone if my actions were right or wrong. So with this kind of attitudes, we are all being judged in everything we do. And the majority is going to stand behind those people they happen to be fighting for at the time no matter what. And right now, LGBT is such a big battle that anything derogatory is going to get shot down. If it was a school teacher or a politician they would believe you. I'm really sorry all this bad stuff happened to you and I'm more sorry that there are so many people out there that won't validate you so you can work through it and get on with life.

What you say about people being a juror of everything anyone does and about validation must be the main problem. In my head it's like me against the world.

Like sexual assault when I was in college after I was drinking, these two guys admitted that it happened, but they just said it was it was my idea. But I am not gay, have no repressed gay anything, I do not secretly desire gay sex and on and on. There could not possibly be a more obvious sexual assault case

But it was like everyone was on the hunt for what I did wrong. Was it really about my repressed homosexuality? Was it about my hatred? Is the real problem my drinking? Maybe this guys brain just malfunctions or something. No one actually said, I am sorry a crime occurred, it was like things went immediately to a search for what I did wrong or what is wrong with me.

Then it never stops, like I went on this forum to try to get help letting go of the past with people who have PTSD, but just got kicked off twice for me delusional hate and trolling. This did not help, this just made me more certain that things are me against the world and resulted in more obsessions and bad habits and confusions

It's ridiculous, I don't hate gays, I have never hated gays and so on. I mean when I was 21 I had been into bodybuilding very heavily. This one guy obviously was seriously disturbed from being harassed for being gay. It's not hard to work out what happened. But people want to be on the right side of things or something, so they make stupid judgements based on appearances or something

I get confused, like things I had happen might not have been as big of a deal for other people, but they are for me. Because I also have other actual real issues regarding either autism spectrum or some combination of anxiety/add/ocd and so on, and when people start playing "whack a mole" by trying to find out the secret terrible thing about me for being a victim, it also takes away any chance for other issues I have to actually get addressed