honesty

[PATILYN]

First, there are some of you who have heard from me individually over the last few months and to you, I thank you personally. I thank you for your insights to date!

However, I am so hurt and bewildered right now, I guess I am looking for some "extra help".

I have a close friend. I thought we were more. He moved abroad out of circumstances beyond our control. Throughout the last 9 months we have kept up steady contact ... and in I have told him repeatedly how I love him.

We never defined ourselves as dating. However my feelings for him were very intense.

Despite our being defined as friends, he was very huggy with me and tolerated my touch. In fact at one point before he left he accompanied me to a function at a hotel and we stayed together overnight and shared a bed. Albeit without intimacy.

To cut to the chase, I went abroad to visit with him and explore things a bit more. I have just returned.

He was overjoyed that I was coming and made arrangements to take the entire time off for holidays.

He was counting the days until I arrived and made plans for me to join his family for their Easter celebrations. He made plans to take me to the opera and to a beautiful spa at the end of the week. He was paying my meal expenses and treating me like a queen.

At the airport upon our reunion, he was pale and cried in my arms.

The second evening we were together we had a small little spat and I told him that though it was unfortunate to hear his words of anger at me, I still loved him.

About 15 minutes afterwards, he sat looking at me at said "I love you". I was so happy.

He stayed with me, 24/7 in my hotel. He slept in my bed with me. Each night he told me how he was enjoying himself.

We walked arm and arm on the street and took a 2 hr. drive to the ocean just to eat a fish sandwich.

Anyway, I was shocked on day 3 to find out quite by accident that he had been seeing someone for about 8 weeks on line. He had apparently told her all about me and she knew I was there. I was so hurt ... that he had told me nothing and he told me that he had not said anything because he did not think it was important. This I could not understand when she had benefit of knowing about me.

So he told me that it had nothing to do with my time with him, that if someone was important to him he made time for them and he wanted to spend this time with me; that this woman would not distract him.

He explained this other woman to me this way: that he does not want to be alone and he has no way to believe he can return to my country anytime soon and he has to look to his future.

To his credit he stayed with me, sleeping with me, eating with me and driving me everywhere and gave me his attention ... and told me that despite this woman's insistence that he see her, that he would have coffee with her for an hour one afternoon ... but otherwise he was exclusively mine.

I finally told him on our second last night together that I really loved him and asked him if he could use that word for me ... and he hesitated at length and finally said no ... he had not thought of it like. That in fact he was fond of me like a sister. That I smoked and he hated that. He said he was taken off guard and not realized how I felt about him and he not given it any thought. I really believe that.

However, I felt some confusing disconnect ... he spent everyday with me, he slept in my bed, he took time off, he introduced me to his family, and in fact told me he loved me.

But when I got down to actually talking about it and telling him my feelings for him, he said he could not summon up that feeling.

I don't know what I am asking really ... other than I took his saying I love at face value, I saw his actions over the last many months ... to always make time to talk to me, to always answer my messages, to care tenderly for me when I blistered from walking, to include me in his family ... and to spend every night in my bed, as something equalling deep affection on his part.

I value your honesty. I was trying to see the words of love instead of hearing them and I thought I did.

Is logical thinking ... i.e. wanting to not be alone, and wanting a non-smoking partner just the way his brain ticked ... and with me he could not tick the boxes?

I am also aware I may not be his "cup of tea" and I rather missed that?

 

[tree]

"I love you" and "I am in love with you" are very different things to say.

Your friend may love you, but doesn't seem to be in love with you.

You supposed his feelings for you matched yours for him, and that
appears not to be the case.

 

[AO1501]

I don't know what I am asking really ... other than I took his saying I love at face value, I saw his actions over the last many months ... to always make time to talk to me, to always answer my messages, to care tenderly for me when I blistered from walking, to include me in his family ... and to spend every night in my bed, as something equalling deep affection on his part.

I value your honesty. I was trying to see the words of love instead of hearing them and I thought I did.

Is logical thinking ... i.e. wanting to not be alone, and wanting a non-smoking partner just the way his brain ticked ... and with me he could not tick the boxes?

I am also aware I may not be his "cup of tea" and I rather missed that?

It isn't possible to tell you for sure, because only he knows, but I know that for me, those behaviours would certainly mean deep affection. That might not mean love however, and I would make that differentiation.

In his case it might be that he simply doesn't know where the emotive side of the relationship is. Deep affection could go further than that in the right moment, but not all the time. It could also be that the woman he is also seeing makes him more guarded than he otherwise would be, or even more able to restrict how he feels about you, in case he needs her. If she is available to him face to face, and you are not, and he needs someone present in his life in that way, he clearly then has a problem to deal with, because even if he does love you, you can't fulfill what he needs.

Again, I can't speak to his motives, but I think if I were in that situation, I would be looking at the logic of this. I might want you, but can't have you. I might not want her, but can have her. The question is, which want and which compromise is best? Until I know, I think I'd back away a little just in case I have to back away a lot.

But you have to realise of course that nobody can know what is in his head other than him. But there is one thing that seems curious, that he did not say anything about your smoking habit until he was backing away from you. That seems an excuse to me, and likely more one that he is making to himself than anything. And while you don't say anything intimate happened when he was sleeping with you (and I assume not), I don't know that I would want to sleep in the same bed as my sister, over several nights, unless there was absolutely no option.

To me, it seems that he felt the need to back away a bit when pressured by your feelings for him. Otherwise, from everything you say, it does sound like you were 'his cup of tea'.

I don't know that you can do anything in this situation other than try and talk to him and establish where you stand, but you may not like what you hear.

 

[Tom]

 

[PATILYN]

But you have to realise of course that nobody can know what is in his head other than him. But there is one thing that seems curious, that he did not say anything about your smoking habit until he was backing away from you. That seems an excuse to me, and likely more one that he is making to himself than anything. And while you don't say anything intimate happened when he was sleeping with you (and I assume not), I don't know that I would want to sleep in the same bed as my sister, over several nights, unless there was absolutely no option.

To me, it seems that he felt the need to back away a bit when pressured by your feelings for him. Otherwise, from everything you say, it does sound like you were 'his cup of tea'.

I don't know that you can do anything in this situation other than try and talk to him and establish where you stand, but you may not like what you hear.[/QUOTE]


Thank you very much! In fact a good deal of what you have replied with went through my mind ... and he was pretty nervous and anxious when I talked about my feelings for him! In fact he asked me if I had come all the way to tell him so! He seemed reluctant to hear it and fiddled with the tv remote most of the time. I felt the smoking kind of came out of no where ... his making something of it ... at the same time as him saying he had never really considered me “this way”.. he told me he was sorry.

Nonetheless, we went to bed that night, together ... i said I felt a bit sad and I asked him to hold me until I slept ... he did and I slept in his arms.

The final night, I told him that I would like to hold him for the night and he agreed and I held him.

In the morning, when it was time to leave for the airport, he did not get up as usual and was in bed with the pillows on his head.

I lay back down with him... and I held him and hugged him and stroked his forehead until we had to finally rush.

I cannot reconcile this intimate albeit not sexual behaviour to that of a brother for a sister. I don’t sleep with my brother or male friends for that matter either. I had a couch or he could have gone home!

I think that seems reasonable for me to think it was fairly intimate.

Nonetheless.... I may have to accept that because I am not in front of him and he wants to find someone ... logic is the main criteria.

My instinct is to just leave it alone for a bit longer. I have been gone home now 6 days. I have not had any contact except to hear from him upon my arrival home that he will miss me and what a good time it was having me there.

Does that seem reasonable?

I would rather respect his need to move forward where he is than than push for more answers becausd I don’t want to scare him to death.

 

[AO1501]

I don't really have any problems expressing my emotions, though I probably do in demonstrating them in a way that would necessarily be meaningful to my partner, but I know that many of us do have problems expressing emotive issues, and in itself, that difficulty would reflect a great deal of discomfort hearing someone else talk to us about these depths of feelings and what they want. It is rather too abstract and illogical, for it to make sense and b quantifiable.

It is possible that he loves you like a sister and yet in his mind that it is OK to sleep with you and hold onto you. It could be that he reasons that because it is a gesture of love, it is not intimate, so doesn't cross a line that you and I think it does. But this does not seem to reconcile with his behaviours up to the point of your raising your feelings with him. And really I do find it hard to believe that wherever he is on the spectrum, he is sufficiently towards the high-funtioning end that sleeping with you would seem to him to mean something more than 'sister'. Perhaps he might not know exactly what, but I don't think he could fail to recognise that line, and for his behaviours in general to not also then show many signs of a rather simplistic understanding of the world around him.

That said, I have, and would, sleep with others for non-sexual reasons, but really only if there were no alternatives. The black and white of that is that he is in bed with you because that is where he wants to be. And since you are not his sister, there would be no reason not to engage in sexual activity - unless you said not - because sex and love are not the same thing, even though they are conflated to a degree for many. If he doesn't feel attracted to you, there would be no reason to sleep with you unless he doesn't want to hurt your feelings...and we are not known for being particularly sensitive in that respect!

I'd be inclined to agree with you therefore that it was intimate and intended as such.

It is also curious that he has been in contact since and told you that he will miss you and had had a good time. Most of us are painfully truthful, so if he didn't mean that, likely he'd have said nothing. The curiosity is that in knowing how you feel about him, if he didn't have feelings for you that he didn't think of you 'that way', he would be more likely to keep his emotive distance.

I don't think that he will be easily scared as things are because you are elsewhere and therefore whatever your feelings, they are less impactful from afar as they were in the same room, so I don't think you need to give him space or time to think, but you might need to for your sake, to try and get a better handle on what you want and what you would want to get out of the relationship.

He seems very conflicted and confused to me, but you very clearly mean something significant to him. It is frustrating that right now you can't find out what!

 

[PATILYN]

You have been beyond insightful ...
As you may have read, I had benefit of meeting his only sister last week.... and I can assure you from having seen them together .... he was not engaging with her ... and in fact when she tried to buzz his cheek for an Easter kiss he backed right up!

Could it be that there are sisters (women he does not find attractive ... his definition or view of non dateable) and then there are the women he wants to date!

During our online relationship ... he would say that he thought always of me, he missed me and when I told him that I wished he could have been with me for Christmas and New Years he concurred how he wished he was with me BUT he was realistic! I said so many Romantic things to him and he never ever backed away from me ... I told him he was one of my life’s greatest experiences and was so rare and like a unicorn to me! He replied right back at you! I sent him a card that told him I loved him just the way he was .... and more ...

This week there many couple moments ... helping me zip and unzip my dress and taking off my earrings for me and my ironing his white shirt .... before the opera..

He was in a long term relationship that is over now for 5 years .... but he told me he feels damaged by that and she was the one he felt love for!

I am fairly sure he is a bit slow to start intimacy. He kind of shocked me once a few months ago with a comment about there being a lot of ugly horny woman out there! I was startled by his outburst!

He did say to me when I went to hold him in bed ...” oh my what is this” ... somewhere between startled and curious.

One thing he confirmed is his inability to speak his emotions.

I did want to mention one thing that is weighing on my mind and I do not want to brand him a liar.

One FridAy, Just prior to me arriving he told me he was going to an outdoor spa for the day and overnight. I did ask him with who and he said alone ... and he said he knew that seemed odd but he was looking forward to it!

And then on my first night there he told me he would like us to go for the day! I was quite thrilled and flattered!

However it came to light that in fact he had gone that weekend with the other woman ... he seemed so surprised that I was upset ... he said it was no big deal, he hadn’t planned on taking her, it was last minute and that “nothing happened”

I still love him to distraction ... but I find now, after that lie, his not knowing what my words of love for him meant, my gifts and declarations ..given that we ended all our Skpe sessions with air hugs and kisses ... as you my kind friend have pointed out ... a bit unbelievable!

So discovering he didn’t tell me about the other woman and the spa ... despite her knowing about me ... concerns me ...

He knew enough that my presence for 10 days was causing her anxiety ... but nonetheless he focused on me solely ...

Even though you made a very thorough analysis of what might be going on in his head there ... I had hoped to not have been confronted with a liar!

Because you have seen quite well similar things I thought ... your thoughts on his real knowledge of my heart and this lie would be appreciated

To answer your last kind hearted comment ... yes my thoughts have to settle for my sake ... I want to offer him something but I am afraid of the pain!

 

[AO1501]

There are many possible explanations for the lie which really don't mean anything. It is quite possible for example that he really did intend to go alone, as he had told you, but that she inserted herself into the event because she wasn't going to see him for 10 days. That having told you he would be alone, it wasn't easy to back away and be truthful immediately without that hurting you. Then not having told you, he is caught in a lie whatever happens.

I tend to believe the fundamentals of truth an Aspie offers, because I can't see many being any other way, but it doesn't mean we don't get caught up in drama and unexpected outcomes that alter what we have expected or intended. His statement that he didn't mean to take her, that it didn't matter and that you shouldn't be upset sound likely authentic, bearing in mind that it is an autistic and therefore black and white way to see it.

I wonder if, in fact, your Aspie is not perhaps being manipulated by the other woman. That doesn't mean she is any less important to him, but pressure from her might explain his uncertainty and variability with you.

Unfortunately I can't get inside his head to tell you what is going on there, but I can say that I could understand the dilemma he may be in. Aspies are often alone, and that means many are very lonely and isolated. A possible partner who is there but means relatively little could still seem like a good outcome in comparison to someone loved but remote and not accessible. I can overcome that easily because I'd rather love someone on the other side of the world than have a friend right next door, but that is because while I am certainly alone and isolated, I am not even slightly lonely. He may face what is to him a far more desperate situation.

The other part of this could well be that the person you are to him is very different when you are in your home than when you are with him. If he is not able to process emotions well, that could significantly confuse and unsettle him. However, you would likely have seen a degree of withdrawal from you if that were the case, and you didn't. Which leads me to think it is the other woman that confuses him.

His fumbling with the remote while you tell him how you feel is likely an indicator that he is having a hard time processing what you're saying, and since he was happy for you to travel to see him and tell him how you felt in person, yet he wasn't when you did exactly that, means he either misunderstood your feelings, or that the reality of it face to face was too big to get his head around. That happened to me many years ago, as I have posted elsewhere, and it left me starting at my girlfriend trying to process, when she expected a response. Getting none but a blank stare, she got upset.

Clearly he was very much into you previously, so I think that once you have had a chance to rest, review and think, if you want the relationship to continue, you are going to have to talk to him with the attendant risk that he'll push you away. Unfortunately, you can't move on without him making himself clearer, but even then don't expect emotional clarity because he doesn't seem capable. Instead, look for practical things. By that I mean that I read into his attention to you and the care he took of you, the time he spent, the things he did for you as practical demonstrations of a degree of care he doesn't have with others. Maybe love, maybe not, but when you don't have an internal concept of what that is like, and can't express it, the words for it don't matter really.

And if you find that when you communicate with him you are back to how it as before your visit, it would be evidence that it was your presence that he felt threatened or overwhelmed by.

But no, thinking more, you aren't his sister. All those practical demonstrations versus his behaviour towards his sister, no, you're not that!


Edited to add:
I meant to address a couple of points, and then missed them, so here goes...

Could it be that there are sisters (women he does not find attractive ... his definition or view of non dateable) and then there are the women he wants to date!

Yes, this is possible, but would require a fairly immature understanding of people and the world around him, meaning that you'd expect to see that immaturity in many other aspects of his behaviours and actions. I don't see any sign of that in what you have described.

Personally, that isn't how I think of women. What I find attractive is not really anything physical, but what I would probably best describe as 'intellectual engagement'. Women I would date are women who have a brain and aren't afraid to use it. You will probably have some sense of his judgement in those terms.

He was in a long term relationship that is over now for 5 years .... but he told me he feels damaged by that and she was the one he felt love for!

Many Aspies move on from broken relationships very quickly, by simply switching off. A simple 'is there any point in this?' yes/no binary. A no gives us the chance to simply detach and be done. Very unemotional, but very practical. We do get damaged though. I think it is common for Aspies to be made to feel toxic when relationships fail, and to become wary of new relationships because of that.

 

[PATILYN]

Thank for the value added comments. Much appreciated!

Maybe one more point you could touch on for me... the horny ugly woman comment and the slight nervousness around my movement towards him in the bed. How does that work ... this seeming fear v. Desire?

I totally left any attempt at full intimacy off the table ... not because I am not confident to move it forward but because I did not want to muddy the waters for myself in only 10 days. However, I felt like he is jittery around the subject and has some sensory issues ... for example ... I am very touchy and he said to me, you never used to do this ... pat me all the time ... he seemed to have forgotten ... the year he lived here and we saw each other weekly and I would touch him a lot ... however I said it was an symbol of my affection for him to which he replied he would try to get used to it. I said I would do something other than patting!

I do feel I have to add ... that unlike your type of attraction ....he has a bit of a fixed idea of physical beauty ... and I have had to wonder if he is somehow not reconciling that “look” with me ... he has never insulted me or been rude about my appearance ... and his compliments are always a bit backhanded and cute ... but the ladies that turn his head ... they are not me! However ... in my opera clothes ... he said nothing to me initially so I just asked him, his response ... looking good ... but you are still the same person under these clothes! I didn’t mind that one bit!

 

[AO1501]

Thank for the value added comments. Much appreciated!

Maybe one more point you could touch on for me... the horny ugly woman comment and the slight nervousness around my movement towards him in the bed. How does that work ... this seeming fear v. Desire?

I totally left any attempt at full intimacy off the table ... not because I am not confident to move it forward but because I did not want to muddy the waters for myself in only 10 days. However, I felt like he is jittery around the subject and has some sensory issues ... for example ... I am very touchy and he said to me, you never used to do this ... pat me all the time ... he seemed to have forgotten ... the year he lived here and we saw each other weekly and I would touch him a lot ... however I said it was an symbol of my affection for him to which he replied he would try to get used to it. I said I would do something other than patting!

The first thing is that autistic people often find touch, particularly light and unexpected touch, quite painful, so if he was familiar with your touch before, it would condition him to be OK with it when he seems not to be now. It is simple familiarity and expectation.

The second thing is rather more complex. Physical intimacy is very problematic because it can be a practical movement of the relationship from one plane to another. If you didn't refuse, but didn't initiate, he has no way to know what you want, so can't act unless he's OK with rejection, and his character doesn't seem to me to be ok with rejection. The result, he does nothing, just in case, because your signals are unclear.

So it is quite likely that he has desires. But can he carry them through with you when he is getting no signals that he should? Probably not. And that is quite likely the source of the comment. He is trying to open a subject for you to say that something is ok, and of course because you miss the point, you don't.

I do feel I have to add ... that unlike your type of attraction ....he has a bit of a fixed idea of physical beauty ... and I have had to wonder if he is somehow not reconciling that “look” with me ... he has never insulted me or been rude about my appearance ... and his compliments are always a bit backhanded and cute ... but the ladies that turn his head ... they are not me! However ... in my opera clothes ... he said nothing to me initially so I just asked him, his response ... looking good ... but you are still the same person under these clothes! I didn’t mind that one bit!

That is hardly unusual I think. I have a very high.... I'm not sure how to describe it, but intellectual need, maybe. What you look like isn't unimportant, but - I hate to describe it this way but it makes sense to me - the mathematical complexities of your body in terms of how to calculate the shapes it has, is far more important than what the shapes actually are. But that isn't how most people function. However, he already knew what you looked like, actually were like. So you don't come as a surprise, and if you're not his thing, there's more than enough time to decide that before you're there, describing your feelings.

And it may be that, according to his inbuilt Aspie rules, you are not 'his thing', yet there remains the emotional commitment, right the way up until you asked him to give it. In essence, I could be physically attracted to 20-something women because my workplace is full of them. Do I think that attraction has any meaning? I'd be crazy to even hope! And they don't have the intellectual engagement I need anyway. Your Aspie must know that these are not his 'options' either.

We all have our idea of what our partner should/would be, and the physicality of them is part of it, but our realities aren't usually that idealised - we decide we can compromise on the ideal. I find it hard to believe a mature Aspie doesn't know that.

 

[PATILYN]

My goodness ... so much to ponder. I do appreciate this very articulate and gentle kind lens to view this situation through. Kind to my feelings as well. Thank you.

He was forever telling me he had his standards about a woman to date ...?? And this woman abroad was as he described to me "pretty, of course". He was more concerned that she was interested in him ... his words "I have chance now that a woman here is interested in me". Lines up completely with your view that loneliness in his life is so overwhelming that someone is better than no one.

And yes, he was being played a bit by this woman ... she had gone silent on him for about two weeks before I had arrived, saying he had not been contacting her enough, until Easter Sunday, the date of my joining his family for Easter Lunch, at which time she started calling him and asking to speak to him and started asking him to come and see her and prove that he could make time for her ... and of course he became agitated and confused ... I naturally excused him to go to take her call ... and to go to her for coffee ... and I accepted his assurances that she was not going to distract him from our time together, that he had wanted to take the time to spend with me ... but the very thing he was so looking forward to, became a big muddle .... once the other woman realized I had arrived ... I rather realize NOW that this could have added to his anxiety the whole week and certainly on the evening of my discussion with him ...

We ended on me saying I didn't want to be sister ... and he said "okay ... I understand" and I asked that we leave it at "special". He full on agreed that was a good word.

So, oddly the last thing I have to say, is that he is really really lousy at starting any contact with me. In fact, in 9 months he has only contacted me first twice ... but 90% of the time, he would respond to all my written messages and 100% of the time attended on our Skype sessions and was engaging, charming, sweet etc. I never once viewed his lack of contact to me first as a personal affront ... as long as he responded back to me I was happy. I am well aware, by his own admission, he contacts no one.

I do not want to add to the hurt on this man's shoulders. I don't think there needs to be more conversations. I am not going to go asking more things.

I think I have a pretty clear understanding, with your help, thank you so much, of what he is doing and why in terms of finding a partner ... and it in no way reflects on his opinion of me ... but I might need some time ... a short time or a long time to process my personal disappointment ...don't know yet ... so can you suggest to me what might be in his mind, if at all, if he doesn't hear from me ... we always talked once a week ... and communicated via message at least 3 times a week.

 

[Bolletje]

I do not want to add to the hurt on this man's shoulders.

Honestly, I’m afraid you’re only going to be adding hurt to your own shoulders.

 

[AO1501]

I think I can see why the other woman's interest in him got his attention. It is not uncommon for Aspies to have a fairly child-like view of the outside world, and 'a woman interested in me' is quite rare, particularly since we typically don't reach out to people, as your Aspie doesn't, so the interest is somewhat compelling.

That creates the nature of his problem, because you are also interested in him, but you are clearly not available in the way she is, and her manipulation is all about keeping him anxious that if he doesn't respond to her, she'll vanish. You, on the other hand are not exerting any real leverage, so she will inevitably win the tug of war.

That is unfortunate for him, because if you trawl through all the posts made in this forum alone, you'll find a lot of stories of Aspies who have been used and then spat out when the person they are with has got what they want from them. A manipulator is highly unlikely to be a good partner for an Aspie at the best of times, and is certainly not likely to stay.

The fact that he is not the one to make contact, and that you have to is really just as I said above - we don't. Or rarely do. I can't. I just don't have the wiring for it. Some will suggest it is because we're afraid of rejection, or that we have been hurt and don't want to put ourselves out there again, but part of it is simply that many are very shy and introverted, so don't know what to say. And because we're also typically very literal and blunt, when we do say something, it could cause unintended offence, or be misinterpreted. Easier, better, safer, to say nothing.

In terms of how he will see the end of regular contact from you, I suspect he'll simply assume that you decided he had rejected you and were no longer interested in him. At least that is how I would read it. And if I knew I had cared about you, I would then just 'switch you off' and walk away as if you had never existed. It is a very practical and rational way to bring a friendship or relationship with someone who had mattered to an end with least hurt.

Certainly it is unlikely that he will decide to contact you to ask what has happened, because in his mind he already would know. He would instead turn his attention to the local woman.

Thus, if you want some time to think and not have him decide you've gone and that he needs to walk away, you'll need to tell him that - that you need a little time to think about things, and that means there won't be the regular contact for a while, but you'll be in contact again later. Then see if you can figure out how to deal with the personal disappointment. Not easy, you clearly invested a lot of yourself in the relationship, and that is always hard to retrieve.

Good luck!

 

[Bella Pines]

He is quite clearly aspie, so you are doing the right thing by learning and gathering information. Eventually you will know more than him about his condition.

However, one path I don't think you should follow is attempting to understand him. I'm very aspie and my husband is so incredibly neurotypical. We've been together through 2 children and 20 years. But still, after many ups and downs, countless discussions, I will never understand how his mind works and he will never understand me. He can predict me, sometimes better than I can. This weekend he said I needed some alone time and should walk in the forest for a few hours. I snapped back at him angrily and said "I'm fine, I don't need alone time right now... oh, well yes, maybe you've got a point". But he will never really understand what it is like to think so utterly logically and experience sensory overload.

So don't try to understand it, learn about it and work with it.

You know what you are dealing with, you know what you are getting in to, you've analysed it to death. I could easily explain his behavior but that is beside the point. Because now is the time to make a simple choice. Go after him or don't. You either forget about a relationship, drop him from your life of demote him from potential suitor to friend and look elsewhere, or you set him in your sites and go after him. It really is that simple.

If you do want him then it is perfectly feasible. If he has allowed you into his life and allowed you to touch him then you are a life partner candidate. So if I were you, at this stage, I would quite smoking and move to the place that he will be in a years time. Keep up the pressure, learn about any female competition and be better than her. Be convenient. Aspies are not romantic and place high value on convenience. I initially fell for my husband because he bled my radiators and gave me a lift to work. I then proceeded to dump my current boyfriends, a rugby player and a tall, dark, handsome naval aviator and told them both quite simply, that I had found a more appropriate suitor.

So if you want him, throw out everything you've learned from romance films, make the decision and commit. I warn you it might take a couple of years, so that's where the commitment comes in.

 

[PATILYN]

He is quite clearly aspie, so you are doing the right thing by learning and gathering information. Eventually you will know more than him about his condition.

However, one path I don't think you should follow is attempting to understand him. I'm very aspie and my husband is so incredibly neurotypical. We've been together through 2 children and 20 years. But still, after many ups and downs, countless discussions, I will never understand how his mind works and he will never understand me. He can predict me, sometimes better than I can. This weekend he said I needed some alone time and should walk in the forest for a few hours. I snapped back at him angrily and said "I'm fine, I don't need alone time right now... oh, well yes, maybe you've got a point". But he will never really understand what it is like to think so utterly logically and experience sensory overload.

So don't try to understand it, learn about it and work with it.

You know what you are dealing with, you know what you are getting in to, you've analysed it to death. I could easily explain his behavior but that is beside the point. Because now is the time to make a simple choice. Go after him or don't. You either forget about a relationship, drop him from your life of demote him from potential suitor to friend and look elsewhere, or you set him in your sites and go after him. It really is that simple.

If you do want him then it is perfectly feasible. If he has allowed you into his life and allowed you to touch him then you are a life partner candidate. So if I were you, at this stage, I would quite smoking and move to the place that he will be in a years time. Keep up the pressure, learn about any female competition and be better than her. Be convenient. Aspies are not romantic and place high value on convenience. I initially fell for my husband because he bled my radiators and gave me a lift to work. I then proceeded to dump my current boyfriends, a rugby player and a tall, dark, handsome naval aviator and told them both quite simply, that I had found a more appropriate suitor.

So if you want him, throw out everything you've learned from romance films, make the decision and commit. I warn you it might take a couple of years, so that's where the commitment comes in.

Thank you! I will think on this one! Despite his reticence in his feelings towards me and my perceived rejection by him, I still love him. I will nurse my wounded pride and take a breath. The choices you set out are really the truth .... for me! Thanks!

I cannot move to him geographically ... he wants to move here ... he’s unhappy in his country ... and if he can make it work out with employment here, he will come back. I left him with some things to think about ... me and a few practical ideas for employment here. Sadly, however, that makes me not too convenient eh?

Thanks for getting right to the nitty gritty as well! Female perspective ... I liked that very much! And it rather made me feel better that it seems from his behaviour that I would at least make the “cut”!

 

[Bella Pines]

Well then that could work out very well.

The rejection is as you described, perceived and temporary. We don't have ideas of sex and romance any more than a computer would. I didn't even notice my husbands advances for well over a year. I think the tipping point was when he learnt about aspergers and pointed out that we were genetically compatible, should I ever consider breeding. Over time I realized that I missed him when he was not around, I liked sharing my observations with him and well, it also helped that he was convenient.

 

[PATILYN]

Well then that could work out very well.

The rejection is as you described, perceived and temporary. We don't have ideas of sex and romance any more than a computer would. I didn't even notice my husbands advances for well over a year. I think the tipping point was when he learnt about aspergers and pointed out that we were genetically compatible, should I ever consider breeding. Over time I realized that I missed him when he was not around, I liked sharing my observations with him and well, it also helped that he was convenient.

Bella Pines ... I did have one niggling thing .... my guy’s declaration “I love you” to me ... while we were playing pool on my second night abroad. I had said to him earlier ... it’s a good thing I love you because you were very hard on me right now”. And then 10 or 15 minutes later, he was just sitting waiting his turn and looking at me when he announced “I love you!” I kind of startled a bit because this was a first ... and I replied to him “but it’s seems you have an odd way of showing it with your hard words” and he replied ... “that’s maybe because it’s the same thing ... “???? What’s that?

Anyway, to quote another kind member on this site, he advised me quite sometime ago that if my guy ever says IT, “you better believe it!” So I did!

I carried the warm feeling around all week ... and then lost it again later when the subject came up ... With the added words from me ...and he could NOT summon the words.

I never thought to hear the words at all and I had certainly never asked to hear the words before ... sooo I guess I just thought it would be lovely to hear them again.

So in truth, Bella, since he uttered the words once with such sincerity and soberness, can I rest on that first declaration? With romance and sex being like a computer to him ... that he does have real love ... for me ...

 

[Bella Pines]

It seems to me, and this is entirely from the aspie perspective, that the neurotypical definition of love is completely nonsensical. It falls anywhere between

• A "feeling", which is actually just describing a physiological hormonal response.
• A series of expectations.
• A behavioral pattern defined in Hollywood films.
• A neurosis and desire to be needed, and the desire for that need to be reflected in a partner.

It's quite frankly ridiculous. And every time I have talked to my husband about it, he falls back on statements like "I just know", and "it just is". Which I've come to believe is a neurotypical response to mean "I have no clue".

A warm feeling can be achieved with a cup of tea or a hot water bottle.

In actual fact, love to me is action. For example, I work in a job that I hate, in order to give my children a good upbringing and a firm foundation for their lives. That is love. Love is allowing someone into your life. Love is a mix of practicality and voluntary inconvenience. Love is focusing our intensity on a single person. Love makes much more sense in our world and is not used lightly, or often. And is certainly not defined inadequately by Bridget Jones or Julia Roberts.

 

[Sid Delicious]

He's leading you on. Sharing a bed with a woman, telling them you love them, getting them to fly over to spend time with you, etc when you have no plans to actually have a relationship is not cool. I'd forget about him and find someone who doesn't waste people's time. This guy is either a complete idiot (which I doubt from what you've said) or incredibly selfish and happy to lead people on. You are being used. Walk away.

 

[PATILYN]

This guy is either a complete idiot (which I doubt from what you've said) or incredibly selfish and happy to lead people on. You are being used. Walk away.

Oh Sid Delicious ... 10 days home ... and my jet lag has finally left me and I am less exhausted ... so I am thinking more clearly. I do feel like I got a bit used ... I came to him ... my heart in hand ... and had never been anything less than clear in my I Love You's, my consistency and my continued presence via Skype, and my gifts for him and assurances that I would turn my life upside down for him, and... even though I have been told that it is not possible to understand him ... I rather thought this morning .... as well ... that by the age of almost 50, that social conventions would have demonstrated to him, or made him at least slightly suspicious ... that here comes a woman from 6500 kms away who LOVES ME, no matter what the obstacles are.

For 9 months he told me he missed me, he told me he sung It'll be a Blue Christmas without You for me in his room on Christmas Day, told me I was special ... and THEN....

That he sat looking at me and told me he loved me, without my asking, took me to his family dinner for Easter and stripped down to his briefs every night and hopped into my bed, ate at my table for breakfast, took me to dinner ... and then told me he is seeing someone else, because he just doesn't want to be alone ... and he lied to me about it both by omission and choice. And then, I guess with stress and anxiety ... he refuted his feelings with a literal "smoke screen" ... Yeah, that's pretty hard on me. Not the behavior of a brother to a sister ...

Yup, framed like that ... and embarrassingly for me ...it seems like I have a heart ache on my hands.

I appreciate all your comments very much.