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Help NTs understand themselves and us

Or they DO care but they find the subject an uncomfortable one ;)
Believe it or not I find this mostly at home with my family now that I am getting out of my comfort zone talking to new people and getting outside more. Matter of fact my family is the worst bring up there past grudges that are irrelevant today or changing the subject again grudges of someone else in my family.
 
Believe it or not I find this mostly at home with my family now that I am getting out of my comfort zone talking to new people and getting outside more. Matter of fact my family is the worst bring up there past grudges that are irrelevant today or changing the subject again grudges of someone else in my family.

I feel your pain there which is why I have very little contact with mine.
 
I'm being cued. Ok, here goes :)
An ememe is an emotion meme which is carried by a commonly known short statement of question. When people communicate with each other, it's not just about the words they use, but they are also transmitting an emotional message, often a feelgood vibe or they may be trying to manipulate the person's emotion in some way. For example, when people ask "how are you?" they aren't really asking how you are, it is serving a social function, a greeting, a kind of social grooming that transmits a feelgood vibe to the other person, it's a communication about social status and the relationship between those two people. For us, when we hear this, it is a question asking after our health and we don't necessarily perceive it's true, social purpose, so we may answer the question literally and honestly, which may not be what the person was actually after - they were after the feelgood emotion, not the actual answer to the question.

For us, the words are the most important thing that we pay attention to, but for NTs, it's the emotional message behind the words that is significant. "How are you?" is an ememe. Another common ememe is "we should meet up sometime". When a person say this, they are not necessarily wanting to meet up, but are transmitting a feelgood message to the other person that says "I'm a friend" and that's what they want the other person to understand. When we hear that, it means to us literally that we should meet up, and then we may get frustrated or disillusioned when the person we suppose to be our friend doesn't actually call us to meet up. Intellectually, we may come to understand that these ememes have a social purpose and shoudn't be taken literally, but we tend not to intuitively communicate in ememes as NTs do, so it is a conscious effort to 'translate' them and to understand what the emotion or social purpose of the ememe is. We may learn their social meanings and imitate, but it is still a huge effort for us that makes social interaction exhausting.

This causes misunderstandings in communication. Either we fail to be aware of the emotional or hidden social function of the words or ememe being used, and then, from and NT perspective, we take things too literally, or NTs may assume that our own words are carrying an emotional message that is not intended, and then, from their perspective, we are seen as being rude and unempathic, hence giving rise to various stereotypes and myths that we are lacking in empathy or are insensitive to other people's feelings.

So basically, we have two different communication styles that are neither superior nor inferior to each other; NTs use a more social communication in the form of verbal ememes, symbolic gestures and body language, whose primary goal is to convery imformation to others about social status and emotional state, whereas we may want to convey similar information, but don't use these symbolic gestures or ememes or non-verbal communication, we use actual words directly to say how we are feeling and what our desires and thoughts are. The differences is in the way our brain works and how we process information, we are wired to process facts and details and often have difficulty processing the emotional or social information that social communication is designed to transmit. EDIT: so when we hear "how are you?", even though as adults we may be able to work out intellectually that the question is symbolic rather than actual, our primary and instinctual interpretation is that is is a question about our health and being, because that is how our brains are wired to process information.
You're not giving that man any royalties, are you?
:eek::rolleyes::p:cool:
 
It's not an abbreviation of emoticon. It's short for 'emotion meme'. It's an idea that @Fridgemagnetman and I came up with to help describe the differences between autistic and NT communication.

Wow that's such a clear and helpful analysis @Progster and @Fridgemagnetman, it really gets to the core of where the rift or disjoint in communication is. I could have said heart, but I said core... and now I know why :rolleyes:.

This should be on the wall in big letters at any autism conference or discussion. And on billboards in public places.
 
Joking aside - the problem with translating between "Autistic" and "Neurotypese" is that the NT often "hears" something different to that which is said. They expect layers of subterfuge and misdirection that aren't present, so end up misunderstanding us.
This is not true of ALL NT's of course - some have made the effort to meet us in the middle, have learned to ask us to clarify when they think we might be being negative and have left their preconceptions at the door whilst engaging with us.
In an ideal, neurodiverse world, all would do this but we are still some way from reaching that point. That's why it's so important to keep working toward that goal!

Yes just some flexible listening with an openess to difference is so helpful. And that assumption that we have agendas is understandable given that they usually do, that for them the meaning is not all said, and is complex.

I almost never have agendas, but am often responded to as if I have, and that's confusing, or in the moment upsetting sometimes. Since realising that, I have tried to work out what they maybe think I meant, and try to factor that in, or sometimes I point out that it isnt what I meant...
 
Misunderstandings, disagreements and arguments with NT's can get a lot worse when they want to talk about and/or resolve them right away. I have two main reactions because the negative emotions, usually frustration and anger, are overpowering: I would withdraw for a long period of time without any explanation, or I'd lash out vehemently in self-defense. I need to spend some time trying to sort the emotions out, figure out why I'm feeling so negatively, and then come down from it. But they incorrectly assume that I am being petty or childish, or that I am holding a grudge, or that I am a passive-aggressive sort.

I would love it if NTs could understand that we (often) don't like confrontation, or we can't talk about our problems and issues the way they can.

I can only speak for myself here, but I'm sure a lot could relate to this. I need a lot more time to keep away from a situation before very slowly and delicately revisiting it again, if I'm able to, especially when the situation is fraught with negative emotion.

Also, I'd much rather prefer to put things in writing.

I wish NTs would accept writing and/or emailing and/or texting more often as a form of communication of thoughts and feelings. I know it's not the preferred method for most of them, but I feel like a lot of us are much better at it this way. I know I certainly am. I think that so many people would actually get me if they accept that I just want to express myself much more in writing, and a lot less verbally.

My husband and I came to an agreement a while ago that if we argue, or something else very upsetting happens and I have a melt down and become verbally uncommunicative, then I can continue to communicate via pen and paper.

It filled me with such relief that he understood that that's what I need sometimes to communicate. And we got to put this in action a couple of months ago when he was having a hard time understanding why I was so upset about something and I could no longer speak. He handed me a small pad and a pen and asked me to write it down. Things were resolved a lot more quickly and less messily than if he continued trying to poke and prod me (figuratively of course lol) for explanations.

Yes, the need for processing time, and the additional ease and clarity of writing, which is slower and slows the process, also. Allowing thinking time.

I have got used to thinking, tomorrow I will have more ideas about this, when I am puzzled in an interaction or dilemma or tricky situation. This makes it easier not to get upset or overwhelmed. Overnight, it's as if something unfolds in my mind - a slow glow worm or freight train of thought chugging through the outlying synapses, waiting for the green signal at junctions. But there's plenty of freight, of creative ideas, when it pulls in at the station...

In the moment, however, not so much, and that can be difficult when for example work norms revolve around meetings. I need today's meeting where we have the initial discussion, and another in a couple of days where I say some useful things. Often that's not how it's done, although I try to come back with my belated insights where possible.

Note I am talking about work and not home life, as at home the cat perfectly understands my processes and life is simple.
 
Wow @Autistamatic 13 years without an argument.. That's awesome!

My spouse and I haven't been together as long as you and your spouse, so we are still working on how to perfect our communication. But I am grateful there is someone who actually cares to learn how to communicate with me, whose communication style is very different from what he's familiar with.

Continuing on this theme of emotions and conflict resolution and communication in general. I would appreciate it if NT's didn't feel the need to touch so much. Most NTs I meet I are huggers, hand shakers. I don't mind the hand shaking as much as the hugging, but I'd prefer just a friendly nod and hello with no touching. And yes, I'll even make eye contact while saying hello for a second! :D

And going back to conflict resolution. When conflicts are resolved, they like to "hug it out" lol Look I have no real hard feelings left after we've resolved the conflict, but.. Do we really need to hug? I'm still dealing with residual emotions. If it's an acquaintance or a friend, I don't need to hug. If it's someone I'm especially close to, I still need some time before I get to feeling more "huggy." :D I get there eventually, but again, I would like NT's to understand that we need time and space first.

OMG yes the hugging, please not the hugging... I don't get there eventually. I will never get there eventually. Stop, stop with the hugging! :eek:

But that's hard to put over politely. o_O
 
I feel your pain there which is why I have very little contact with mine.

Yes, same here. Though for me it's been more a feeling of invisibility that I get. This is possibly due to parental narcissism more than NT functioning.
 
I think the ememe is a useful concept that may gain traction. With your permission @Fridgemagnetman & @Progster I would like to start using it in my future work - writing, video and website (when I get round to making it).
It's one of those words like it's direct relative "meme" which serves it's purpose extremely well by summing up a hefty concept in a short, snappy, memorable word.
Credit would (if desired of course) be given to the originators.
 
I think the ememe is a useful concept that may gain traction. With your permission @Fridgemagnetman & @Progster I would like to start using it in my future work - writing, video and website (when I get round to making it).
It's one of those words like it's direct relative "meme" which serves it's purpose extremely well by summing up a hefty concept in a short, snappy, memorable word.
Credit would (if desired of course) be given to the originators.
Please do. Spread the word :) @Fridgemagnetman ?
 
Please do. Spread the word :) @Fridgemagnetman ?

@Autistamatic - long as you use the source :)

I can be called Tim Willow.

@Progster Hyacinth Scrumpilons.

OK She can pick her own name.

If you want, lets club together and try and get it in the dictionary.

There is a specific method, number of uses etc Websters and the oxford dictionary are both different.

Everyone is welcome to join in with that one.

I think it's a great way to frame one of the major differences, to build a foundation of understanding.

Ideally this guy should start using it :
Richard Dawkins Foundation
 
YAY!

It's a word that deserves to be in the dictionary. I think there's a good chance we can do it.
As pointed out - Dawkins is credited for "meme" which at it's inception was not as useful as it has become since the internet has made the meme (in it's true sense) a unit of information currency.
As awareness of the double empathy problem grows - something that afflicts not only NT/ND communication, but any communication between cultures, religions, nationalities and races - the ememe as a definable, quantifiable entity will become a useful shorthand in improving relations between different groups.
 
the ememe as a definable, quantifiable entity will become a useful shorthand in improving relations between different groups.

In terms of realising one is autistic, the problem has always been one of definition.

Trying to explain what is 'wrong' what is 'different' to get other people to understand.

Many autistic and NT people also have that problem.

Now there is a word for it -both sides may be able to appreciate the others viewpoint.

Like the example I tried to give in this thread, things get very complicated very quickly and misunderstandings pile up on top of each other.

Hopefully the word,once used regularly, will provide a platform for realisation.

I certainly agree that communication between cultures,nationalities and races adds a little soupcon of complexity to it all :)
 
Here's an attempt at a concise definition. I'm going to be off work again today - I've had a dreadful cold all week but my head's a little clearer today so I think I can do some personal work to cheer myself up :)

"Ememe

/i:mi:m/

1. The emotional content transmitted or received via apparently unrelated words.
2. The emotional context of communication.
3. An emotional message conveyed between two parties of the same cultural or neural type that may not be understood by parties outside of their group."

Comments or refinements welcome!
I think I can get a blog post knocked up today and start whoring it around Twitter to grab the attention of some of the academics and researchers who can help this catch on!
 
In terms of realising one is autistic, the problem has always been one of definition.

Trying to explain what is 'wrong' what is 'different' to get other people to understand.

Many autistic and NT people also have that problem.

Now there is a word for it -both sides may be able to appreciate the others viewpoint.

Like the example I tried to give in this thread, things get very complicated very quickly and misunderstandings pile up on top of each other.

Hopefully the word,once used regularly, will provide a platform for realisation.

I certainly agree that communication between cultures,nationalities and races adds a little soupcon of complexity to it all :)
2 points for "soupçon"
 
Here's an attempt at a concise definition. I'm going to be off work again today - I've had a dreadful cold all week but my head's a little clearer today so I think I can do some personal work to cheer myself up :)

"Ememe

/i:mi:m/

1. The emotional content transmitted or received via apparently unrelated words.
2. The emotional context of communication.
3. An emotional message conveyed between two parties of the same cultural or neural type that may not be understood by parties outside of their group."

Comments or refinements welcome!
I think I can get a blog post knocked up today and start whoring it around Twitter to grab the attention of some of the academics and researchers who can help this catch on!
A method of communicating emotional content, usually occurring simultaneously with, yet distinct from and unrelated to, spoken or signed language.
 
Updated to include @sidd851 suggestion which I think deserves top spot :)

Further comments & improvements still invited!

"Ememe

/i:mi:m/

1. A method of communicating emotional content, usually occurring simultaneously with, yet distinct from and unrelated to, spoken or signed language.
2. The emotional content transmitted or received via apparently unrelated words or signs.
3. An emotional message conveyed between two parties of the same cultural or neural type that may not be understood by parties outside of their group."
 
I've noticed repeatedly that NTs in my professional field rely on each other for professional advice rather than research subject matter independently. This can be very useful and powerful but sometimes leads to a kind of intellectual inbreeding. It's especially noticeable when the circle of professional peers encounters something new which none of them is familiar with. Their attitude tends to be 'fake it until you make it' instead of 'we need to master the new material.'

I tend to lean the opposite way, consume as much information as possible without talking to my professional peers. However, sometimes I miss things that are obvious to the group simply because I don't discuss the subject matter with them. Sometimes this leads to conflicts because the group doesn't understand the subject matter or I'm unaware of something obvious to the group.

The most constructive way I've found to work around this is to try to master as much of the new material as I can and then start poking the peer group to see how much they really understand. During that process I'll usually learn things they're aware of which I've missed. I do my equivalent of reciprocating by explaining things they're unaware of or simply don't understand, typically in writing.
 
"intellectual inbreeding"

I love it. It's a concept I know so well but have never put into words so succinctly. Bravo sir!

tenor.gif
 

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