Do people with Autism-1 tend to be "Oughtistic?"

[Greatshield17]

This morning, I listened to a debate on the Pints with Aquinas podcast and at one point, they started talking about Natural Law and the Is-Ought objection. (I am fascinated with Natural Law and Human Nature, but I'm digressing here.) The word "ought" led me to think about how I tend to obsess over how things "ought to be," and how I'm prone to idealism and perfectionism; this leads me to wonder, do Autistic people tend to be idealists and perfectionist? Do any of you tend to have an idealistic approach to things?

 

[Fino]

Yes, but thankfully I've gotten more flexible as time goes on.

 

[Giraffes]

Yes Yes Yes my inflexibility with myself and others have caused many problems with myself and my relationships with others.

 

[Progster]

Yes, I do, I tend to obsess over things affect me or which are out of my control, or things that offend my sense of justice. I can be very demanding on myself and on others.

 

[Thinx]

Yes and no. Other things probably affect this tendency, for example I am a younger sibling, and my older sibling is way more rigid and definite than I am, plus I did plenty therapy. Really I think I am quite flexible overall, I do not judge others, this also comes from my home background that was socialist and non judgemental on the whole, for it's time.

I was perfectionist though, and can still be tough on myself around that, and without actually saying it sometimes tough on others, plus I have high standards for those in authority who should be setting examples and governing benignly and caringly. So that's where I can be oughtist.

 

[Alexej]

Yes - I have a strong streak of perfectionism myself, and I hold myself to that standard quite often.

 

[Gracey]

Interesting point from @Thinx,
'Those in authority'

I'd add 'with a duty of care' to the list of my preconceived ideas on how people in those roles ought to conduct themselves and carry out their responsibilities.

 

[menander]

I think this is true. I think it's only because people with ASD tend to do SO much research. They really are experts and only trying to talk stuff over

 

[Moonhart44]

I feel that I am defintely a pensive person, and i focus on the ideal versus the reality. this really goes with me in terms of me imagining how people should be (good, trustworthy, intelligent) vs how they actually are (multidimensional, flawed, and sometimes not as smart as you'd want to think)

 

[Au Naturel]

Oh yeah. Aspies have to learn to be nonjudgmental. "you would think..." and "they ought..." are phrases I hear all the time from adult aspies. Comes from being rule-based. An aspie doesn't understand all the social complexities - and probably doesn't have high social status - so when we break rules the consequences are swift even if we didn't mean to do what we did. The rules become our friends because "I followed the rules" is usually protection against formal discipline.

It also ticks us off to see other people stretching the rules and getting rewarded for it when if we did the same thing we'd be hammered on.

Our social disability causes us not to understand that many rules are really just suggestions and if you understand the social complexities - and if people like you enough - you are free to break them.

 

[Rectify]

Yes, I do, I tend to obsess over things affect me or which are out of my control, or things that offend my sense of justice. I can be very demanding on myself and on others.

I can obsess over things too. I'll hear something - someone's way of thinking or group thinking on a particular subject, and then I'll try to understand it. Try to work out what I think. Is it wrong, is it right. Is the way I think wrong or right in relation to it. It's quite exhausting. And when I come up with a different answer to the groupthink well, these day, it has been quite unpleasant for me.

 

[Rectify]

Aspies have to learn to be nonjudgmental. "you would think..." and "they ought..." are phrases I hear all the time from adult aspies. Comes from being rule-based. An aspie doesn't understand all the social complexities - and probably doesn't have high social status - so when we break rules the consequences are swift even if we didn't mean to do what we did.

I agree with you. But I'm also quite confused by online life (I don't know if it's offline too in some groups/areas - to be honest I'm not very social and don't go out much). It seems to me that on social media and other places online that Aspies (& other autistics) aren't the only ones who seem judgemental and rule based.

I'm actually quite hurt at this moment based on things that have happened online which I honestly don't understand...but I know the issue is that I have broken the rules and the only way to fix it iis to think what the other people think. Argh. Life is hard to navigate sometimes.

 

[Greatshield17]

I think this is true. I think it's only because people with ASD tend to do SO much research. They really are experts and only trying to talk stuff over

I used to engage in debates online and plan for them in advance. I'd spend a lot of time researching the topics I'm debating and thinking up complex objections to arguments and how to overcome them. I'd often end up being bogged down in lesser objections and arguments I didn't consider and plan for, and trying to convince my opponents of things I thought were obvious.

So I don't debate anymore, both because of what was said above, my idealism in general, and other things like norms-breaking as @Au Naturel brought up; I try to be very civil and respectful in my debates, but when my opponents keep showing disrespect to me and engaging and snarky jabs the like, I often give into the urge to just hit back and let them have it.

 

[Progster]

I can obsess over things too. I'll hear something - someone's way of thinking or group thinking on a particular subject, and then I'll try to understand it. Try to work out what I think. Is it wrong, is it right. Is the way I think wrong or right in relation to it. It's quite exhausting. And when I come up with a different answer to the groupthink well, these day, it has been quite unpleasant for me.

I obsess a lot over things that I think are wrong or unfair, but which other people might not think are such a big deal. For example, people smoking in enclosed public spaces. It's illegal, but people still do it and/or turn a blind eye. Or people who have dogs and allow their dogs to bark outside all the time and disturb their neighbours. A growing problem in the neighbourhood where I live which is making it increasingly difficult for me to live here, but people just don't seem to care. Also, 'little' things like the shops giving out single use plastic bags for every single little thing, which then don't get recycled, just get thrown away. People just accept these bags without questioning, whether they really need a bag or not.

 

[SusanLR]

Perfectly perfectionistic.
I can obsess on the exact placement of trinkets for hours.
The smallest imperfection seems difficult to accept.
I call it my exercise in futility. Nothing is perfect.

In college art classes, I was always slow at finishing a project.
The instructor noticed this and ask about it.
I told her perfection takes time. She said there is no such thing.
The next painting I did I was told to deliberately leave something imperfect.
She knew I couldn't do it.
Not if I saw it as imperfect in my eyes, I said. No.

 

[Progster]

The next painting I did I was told to deliberately leave something imperfect.

This reminds me of traditional Persian rugs. Where an imperfection is deliberately introduced because, so they believe, only God is perfect.

 

[Ylva]

I still think it comes from NT culture and out attempts to adapt.

Exhibit A: The word "should" doesn't mean anything. It's past tense of "shall" which is a future verb. I bet it's similar in most languages.

Exhibit B: My own experience is that I've always been as flexible as a Sun Tzu metaphor, but it does get exhausting when NTs use that fact to change their minds over and over because they enjoy having the power to wear me out.

 

[Sherlock77]

I'm a perfectionist for sure, I occasionally get mad at myself for screwing up a photo I took (errr.. often)

And if something goes wrong, plans go awry, etc... I can be rather upset sometimes

Like... Bad weather screwing up an outdoor event that I was really looking forward to

Something like that

 

[Crossbreed]

I have moved from perfectionism to efficiency (within the parameters given). It is still a type of "idealism" but with a more attainable bar.

I like to make a game of it.

 

[Rectify]

I obsess a lot over things that I think are wrong or unfair, but which other people might not think are such a big deal. For example, people smoking in enclosed public spaces. It's illegal, but people still do it and/or turn a blind eye. Or people who have dogs and allow their dogs to bark outside all the time and disturb their neighbours. A growing problem in the neighbourhood where I live which is making it increasingly difficult for me to live here, but people just don't seem to care. Also, 'little' things like the shops giving out single use plastic bags for every single little thing, which then don't get recycled, just get thrown away. People just accept these bags without questioning, whether they really need a bag or not.

I sometimes get stuck on smaller matters, too. I hate people using car horns when it's not an emergency on the road. Like, beeping as they drive away from a friends house - as though it means "goodbye, see you later!". No. NOOOO. Also, I'm with you on the bags