Do Aspies/Auties Have a Different Understanding of Right and Wrong?

[pjcnet]

Meh, I'm on tablets for anxiety, would I go out into the middle of the Meadowhall Centre waving a gun about? Nope! Although I have previously walked round there wearing a Batman suit!

The same antidepressant or antipsychotic drug doesn't effect everyone the same, although I believe they're not good in the long term for most people, many won't be severely adversely affected like this, but my point is some can be, particularly with some of the drugs prescribed and the risk can be increased even further when they take cocktails of drugs, especially over a longer period of time. Even many people who took and still do take paroxetine don't experience the same severe adverse effects I did, but there's a lot of reports of people who did and some even worse than me.

 

[unreality]

I don't about the average autistic person, but I think there's a wide variance, and hence the name spectrum. A lot of autistic people understand how NTs think, and get it, but they often disagree with them. At least that's my experience.

 

[Gritches]

I think this was a person who was pushed to the edge, not an Aspie. Maybe he had autism, but I doubt highly that that was what made the difference here.

 

[WereBear]

It’s an overwhelmimg sense of spite and grievance, based on the writings they leave behind.

 

[Major Tom]

One thing that I didn't see anyone hit on (didn't read every reply to this thread), is how mass media coverage of terrible incidents like this give a lot of strange and perhaps lonely people ideas on how they can get some attention.. Since Columbine, this has been happening again and again and again.. In my opinion they should stop coverage on school shootings and perhaps they won't be a "thing" anymore. Perhaps the damage is done already. All I know is that HUMANS tend to focus on the negative.

 

[OkRad]

THey keep mixing us up with wackos and psychopaths. When will that end?

 

[OkRad]

On second thought, if ASD if a difference and not a disability, then the flip side is that each person with ASD can be their own person, meaing I suppose one could be evil and another a saint.

 

[WereBear]

THey keep mixing us up with wackos and psychopaths. When will that end?

When they stop freaking out over individuality.

 

[Mia]

On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting.

Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami Field Office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken.

Find it surprising that the FBI was given some indication, and they didn't investigate it. Or perhaps they didn't look into it closely at all, it's possible too that the caller was not credible.

This happened to me once on a website. Just as I was signing out, someone threatened to shoot up a university in a US state. The message was deleted soon after, by the site, but not before I took a screenshot.

I reposted it, by the time it was up, within two hours several people in that state and at that university were informing police, students were leaving the campus. I couldn't have ignored it, or taken the chance that it wasn't real with people's lives at stake.

Three hours in, police were at the home of the person who made the threat. It was a fake, put up by a teen. His parents were horrified, embarrassed. Local police acted so quickly, that it was over by midnight.

When this kind of threat (or information about someone who is dangerous) is given, police locally should be informed as they are on the spot, may know the family. It seems like the FBI, is too large and they must get this kind of information regularly, it might be difficult to sift through the real and the fake.

 

[Crossbreed]

I believe that our ethical standards are independent of our neuro-status. By ethical standards, I mean two things.

1. Where we draw the line on ethical behavior, &
2. How much value we assign to that line.

Our neuro-status has zero impact on those values, NT or ND. It is as irrelevant as one's race, gametes or handedness.

My earliest understanding of ethics was the Golden Rule. Since becoming a Christian, it has only become better defined.

Does my autism make me a social klutz (particularly among NTs)? Certainly. But that is a far cry from the unprovoked desire to kill complete strangers.

 

[Theta.G]

Step 1. News organization that has learned from and/or hired some of the worlds best psychologists to exploit the viewers... airs extreme terrorist content daily for a week. MASSIVE effects on conscious thought with a TON of garbage that sneaks into the subconscious of all it's viewers. Most are completely unaware of how this impacts their minds. The only ones who do know are the ones who have studied psych and apply what they learned to what's being shown through the screen. Others may have a surface level understanding but not the depth required to grasp the gravity of it.

This injects the idea into the minds of all who watch. Some are more susceptible to these manipulations and enter a state similar to hypnosis. Hyper suggestibility. The longer one watches filth the more they are programmed.

Step 2. Drugs.
cause = drug xyz.
effect = suicide, homicidal thoughts, violent behavior, etc

Step 3. Environmental factor which triggers action.

So you have repetitive emotionally charged and psychologically exploitative content shown to viewers susceptible to such things who are on drugs that have homicidal thoughts and actions listed as effects.
Environmental stressor triggers them. The bad thoughts and feelings take hold and the image promoted by the media, burned into the mind of the viewer by the media, gets pushed upward into conscious thought and acted out. In short. Drug triggers madness, madness is tied to incidents like this. In this state their brain searches and recalls the mental imagery and the individual is directed toward school shooting or other mass shooting. Depends what they've seen when how and how long.

It's not a big mystery. The lids off now it can't be closed. That's incorrect i mean it won't be closed.
What i can tell you is if CNN or FOX ... any other news organization didn't dedicate days to this fear porn with the initial school shootings. If they didn't cover it in such a way the amount of school shootings today would be less. If not aired at all, there would barely be any in the modern age.

This works in a way that is no different from tide pod challenges. Mechanically speaking. Monkey see... monkey do. Yes this is more complex with more layers but fundamentally that is what this is.

If they covered cannibalism like this and not school shootings i can guarantee you 100% there would be more of those incidents with a drug to match. and less school shootings.

I doubt the dude was aspie. Whether he is or isn't though media loves to drive that fear response up in the public. Gets everybody talking about it then driven toward their content and $ goes up higher and higher.While a new, large demographic becomes feared. By a new view installed into the viewers.

Hope i explained this properly. going to sleep

 

[WereBear]

Three hours in, police were at the home of the person who made the threat. It was a fake, put up by a teen. His parents were horrified, embarrassed. Local police acted so quickly, that it was over by midnight.

The shooter's rants and state of mind were reported many many times.

2010 – 2017
According to CNN, which obtained documentation, police responded 39 times to emergency calls at Cruz’s home over a seven-year period. The codes included “mentally ill person,” “child/elderly abuse,” “domestic disturbance,” “missing person,” among others, CNN reports.

According to the New York Times, Cruz’s adoptive mother, Lynda Cruz, had a hard time dealing with his behavior and would sometimes call police to her home in an effort to get him under control before her death last year. But not all of the calls were placed by Cruz’s mother.

One neighbor, Rhonda Roxburgh, told the Washington Post she called the cops on Cruz after he attacked her car about four years ago, slamming his backpack into it for no apparent reason. In response, the cops stationed an officer at the intersection for “several days” to ensure he didn’t “attack or throw rocks at cars,” the paper reports.

ALL THE TIMES NIKOLAS CRUZ WAS REPORTED TO AUTHORITIES BEFORE THE FLORIDA SHOOTING​

I happen to agree with a commenter (on another board I frequent) who said that if the young man had been black instead of white... it would have been different. He would have at least done some jail time for these offenses, and been evaluated by some kind of professional.

So there's maybe one reason it's so many white males. Because they get a pass for so #)$*& much.

 

[WereBear]

ANY introvert is susceptible to "the crazed loner did something horrible" speculation from the people who just love being part of the herd, no matter how that strangles their own personality.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

ANY introvert is susceptible to "the crazed loner did something horrible" speculation from the people who just love being part of the herd, no matter how that strangles their own personality.

So far we are fortunate that
they don't randomly attack any 'verts'

 

[WereBear]

I also agree with this post:

The Problem is Toxic Masculinity, Not Mental Illness

One of the disturbing things that happens after every mass shooting is that virtually everyone, right and left, immediately starts talking about mental illness as the cause of the problem. The right does this only when the killer is white, of course, but the left does it too. We’ve seen it since the Parkland school shootings in all the memes criticizing Trump for blaming it on mental illness while simultaneously complaining that he signed a bill that withdrew Obama-era restrictions on those with mental illnesses buying guns.
...

Yet, while most mass shooters in the past 35 years have not been found to have a serious mental illness, nearly all of them do have one thing in common: their sex. Of the 96 mass shootings committed since 1982, all but two were committed by men.​

 

[Skids]

First of all the high standards of morality and adherence to rules that I have as the most intense part of my aspieness don't seem to be reciprocated amongst most of the people I've met in my lifetime. As a consequence, it is this single thing that is most important to me intrinsically that is the barrier between myself and others.

As I have mentioned before, I have worked for many years for two of the UK's largest animal welfare charities and the levels of hypocrisy, bullying, extravagance with and general abuse of donations led me to leave both posts. I think as we've seen with Oxfam, large charities are often the worst offenders and I wasn't surprised one bit by the revelations at Oxfam.

This is why I always donate now to small scale independent charities who are run on a shoestring by struggling devotees to their cause(s) and I know that the money will be used as wisely as possible instead of paying for some inept, corrupt managers fat pension pot and brand new company car.

I was pretty much at my lowest ebb when I decided to go all out to get a job in animal welfare as I thought that working for charity and for animals would surely lead to me being around other employees and management that had the same ideals as me and the same strength of feeling about animals over everything else, even their own greed and selfishness but sadly I was wrong.

Where could I go after that? Who can you trust anymore? Is there anybody left out there willing to do the right thing if it comes at a cost to themselves financially?

I don't think there are and now I don't trust anybody and don't really want to get to know anybody anymore because when push comes to shove they always look out for number one. The selfish gene I believe is in all of us but the key part of my HFA is that I am simply unable to override the moral obligation I have to my autism and therefore I am not in a position to turn a blind eye to anything I consider immoral or inappropriate.

In this respect I tend to think that I have a much higher sense of right and wrong than most NT's do and more importantly, I will ALWAYS lean towards doing the morally right thing even if it means I have to lose my job or get into unwanted altercations with members of the public for pointing things out.

Finally the constant links between autism and the individuals that commit crimes like the recent shooting in the States is ludicrous and it annoys the hell out of me. The vast percentage of crimes that are committed around the world are done so by NT's i would assume, but just because a few of these crimes are perpetrated by people on the spectrum then it gets highlighted and magnified out of all proportion.

Perhaps those responsible for ensuring these individuals are resilient enough to prosper in a world where seemingly nothing has any value need to address a few things.

Parenting and how someone is raised by their parents is likely to have a huge impact on the person. Some of the sights I see here in England are disturbing. Go to any busy seaside resort in the UK in summer and sit on a bench for a couple of hours and just observe. You'll see a snapshot microcosm of what some kids have as a role model in their lives 24/7.

Mental health help in the UK especially is atrocious, alarmingly lacking and just results in most GP's sticking you on a variety of medications without even bothering to find the cause of the problem. These medications then can cause further issues.

There also needs to be regular support groups and social groups for people on ALL levels of the spectrum. Currently all I see in the UK in my region are opportunities for people with autism who have more profound difficulties that what you would expect from someone with HFA and whilst I am not judging in any way or saying one is in any way less deserving than the other, the potential for HFA people to become withdrawn and isolated whilst having a full awareness of this is huge and it needs addressing.

There are one or two groups I have seen but they are usually once a month for a couple of hours and it's nowhere near enough.

As I have found with my recent diagnosis of HFA, in the UK anyway there is NO specialist help and support whatsoever.

Anyway, sorry about the long post but I get wound up by constant referring to aspies having no morals, not caring about things and having no emotion and empathy when in actual fact the reason why I am struggling is because my sense and awareness of all those things is so intense and i'm faced with people everyday who seem to have the exact opposite.

I'm in no way criticising Sportster for doing this with the thread however as Sportster is merely asking the question so apologies to Sportster if my post comes across this way.

It's a very interesting thread which I've enjoyed reading.

 

[Voltaic]

i dont belive people do such things without reasons, and i dont think all of his reasoning was nessiarily flawed because of the outcome. With the context of most school shooters, the perpatrwtor was an outsider, years of breewing in bitter contempt for evryone, including yourself, can lead people to do unthinkable things. i try to empathise, not for t he sake of deffending a school shooter, but to learn more.

do you think the world gave him reasons to do this? Reason to go so far? How many others are going through what he went through? no normal person, with a normal life does these things. is he just one of many? Too many. it just turns into a jumbers game, how many people can society beat around before one goes crazy with a gun?

Can we put all the blame on him? or all of it in gun control laws? or were we part of the problem as well? should we not empathise with this type of person? he was a kid once, what did it take to convert that child into a mass murder? he didnt just do it on his own, we can blame the world for putting him in the situation were someone would even consider shooting up a school.

I feel srry for him. No one should have to go through the tourture it took to give him the rational choice to do this. These people are not just crazy, they are people.



----



i am not so hyperfocused on emotions in my decision making. I take them into account, but they are neggligable in my thought proccses.

Morality is not a deffined subject, i have my own aproach on what is morally right or wrong.

but, because mine is diffrent, aparently that automaticaly makes is wrong. thanks society.

 

[pjcnet]

Step 1. News organization that has learned from and/or hired some of the worlds best psychologists to exploit the viewers... airs extreme terrorist content daily for a week. MASSIVE effects on conscious thought with a TON of garbage that sneaks into the subconscious of all it's viewers. Most are completely unaware of how this impacts their minds. The only ones who do know are the ones who have studied psych and apply what they learned to what's being shown through the screen. Others may have a surface level understanding but not the depth required to grasp the gravity of it.

This injects the idea into the minds of all who watch. Some are more susceptible to these manipulations and enter a state similar to hypnosis. Hyper suggestibility. The longer one watches filth the more they are programmed.

Step 2. Drugs.
cause = drug xyz.
effect = suicide, homicidal thoughts, violent behavior, etc

Step 3. Environmental factor which triggers action.

So you have repetitive emotionally charged and psychologically exploitative content shown to viewers susceptible to such things who are on drugs that have homicidal thoughts and actions listed as effects.
Environmental stressor triggers them. The bad thoughts and feelings take hold and the image promoted by the media, burned into the mind of the viewer by the media, gets pushed upward into conscious thought and acted out. In short. Drug triggers madness, madness is tied to incidents like this. In this state their brain searches and recalls the mental imagery and the individual is directed toward school shooting or other mass shooting. Depends what they've seen when how and how long.

It's not a big mystery. The lids off now it can't be closed. That's incorrect i mean it won't be closed.
What i can tell you is if CNN or FOX ... any other news organization didn't dedicate days to this fear porn with the initial school shootings. If they didn't cover it in such a way the amount of school shootings today would be less. If not aired at all, there would barely be any in the modern age.

This works in a way that is no different from tide pod challenges. Mechanically speaking. Monkey see... monkey do. Yes this is more complex with more layers but fundamentally that is what this is.

If they covered cannibalism like this and not school shootings i can guarantee you 100% there would be more of those incidents with a drug to match. and less school shootings.

I doubt the dude was aspie. Whether he is or isn't though media loves to drive that fear response up in the public. Gets everybody talking about it then driven toward their content and $ goes up higher and higher.While a new, large demographic becomes feared. By a new view installed into the viewers.

Hope i explained this properly. going to sleep

You've pretty much wrapped it up. It is very true just how shockingly powerful the media is and most people greatly underestimate it thinking they're different, although a certain awareness of this allows us to put up some resistance. If you control the media, you control most of the people. Anyone who wants to take control of a country fully understands how powerful and indoctrinating the media is when TV and radio stations become high profile targets. People's entire views of the world and many people who they've never even met, but seem to think they know well including leaders who know full well how to act when in front of a camera are based entirely on what the media tells them to believe and people are massively influenced all the time, often without realising it or certainly understanding the full extent of it, but it's even more powerful as people grow up. You are also right about the news, they could be described as merchants of chaos because there's nothing like bad news to get the money coming in, and yes, it is a vicious circle when they cover massacres like this, subconsciously planting the idea into other people's heads. I covered the drugs side in my reply earlier, although a lot of people don't understand the extent of this either including how corrupt and powerful the pharmaceutical companies are, so I also agree. And yes, finally environment factors and stresses triggers it.

I don't believe everyone who lived exactly his life, was exposed to exactly the same media and even given the same drugs would have ended up killing people, but I do believe we are all capable of killing under certain conditions and even though some people are easier to condition than others, I also think it's possible to condition anyone to kill, especially if the conditioning/indoctrination starts from when they're very young. If people don't believe me, then here is an example, if the media suddenly states that your country is under threat from a hostile and evil force, then if they bring back in national service, the army will condition most people to kill and the people fighting will fully back their country, truly believing they're right even if the leaders are lying to them. Similarly most of the German soldiers who fought for Hitler believed they're were doing the right thing when they were also conditioned to kill on the battlefield.

 

[Ylva]

They throw the autism theory around every time there's a shooting. In actual fact, most people who go on shooting rampages are neurotypical, because most people are neurotypical. What is more, we are less likely to be violent, along with most other neurodiverse or disabled people.

Even if he is ASD, that couldn't have caused him to do what he did. Even psychopaths (personality disorder) choose to do what they do, and even among them most apparently choose not to do heinous things.

 

[ksheehan88]

Autism didn't CAUSE him to shoot people. Mental illness didn't ENABLE him to shoot people. Being able to procure a semi-automatic rifle like it was a packet of cigarettes is what took those kids lives.

To expand on that; he may well have had autism. He may well have had mental illness. But, even if he had one or both, it was having that kind of weapon available that did such massive damage.Even if he had a knife as weapon of choice, he could not have caused such a high body count.