Dating: How can I get a girlfriend?

[Kayla55]

The difference between some of us women is that my lack of facial expressions is not due to Botox!!!

 

[Kayla55]

I must be fair to the sexes and say but I can't seem to find phrase for this (really do exist, but with education)

Dumb male

But many men argue that avg Joe still has more intelligence than women!!

Sorry bout skiiii accident, really hadn't a clue so the joke was maybe not well received.

 

[Markness]

I cannot tell if you're sarcastic or not, but suicide...I've been in your shoes before, and I want to be empathetic and sympathize with you.

May I ask: do you consume a lot of media about relationships? Is this something about which you fantasize constantly, willing or no?

No, I am not being sarcastic.

I used to read books on getting into relationships but I couldn’t implement the advice in them. They were aimed at NTs and people who only have mainstream interests. I constantly fantasize about what I want in a relationship.

 

[Markness]

This statement is a bit on the manipulative side.

It's like *poor me, a person without volition, doomed to insanity or self destruction
if somebody doesn't come along and rescue me.*

I base this interpretation on the word "wait."

The two options (insanity and suicide) are both examples of disdain for the OP.

The way the statement is framed it doesn't suggest that the OP might have
anything positive to offer. He's basically an empty shell.

According to the way the statement is written.

Those aren’t my exact thoughts. I simply just feel like I am stuck in a quandary and I don’t know if I can find a solution.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

No, I am not being sarcastic.

I used to read books on getting into relationships but I couldn’t implement the advice in them. They were aimed at NTs and people who only have mainstream interests. I constantly fantasize about what I want in a relationship.

You seem to reject suggestions out of hand without even considering if there is a core truth that can help you. I and many of my dear friends have other than mainstream interests, and that has not hindered us in having good relationships. I would argue that any interest can be leveraged into making you an interesting person as long as you still value others.

 

[Gerontius]

I used to read books on getting into relationships but I couldn’t implement the advice in them. They were aimed at NTs and people who only have mainstream interests. I constantly fantasize about what I want in a relationship.

Okay:
I have incredibly bad manners. I read Emily Post's Etiquette (8th edition 1948--it was cheaper used, because not only am I rude, but I am also a cheap bastard.)
The advice in there was set up primarily for a WASP audience, neurotypical (of course), wealthy, and only really fit for the immediate postwar period. However, general principles can be extracted from the text and applied to the situation I find myself in.

1948--suggestion is to leave the windows open in the guestroom & also provide it with a small AM radio, as those are getting inexpensive lately.
2023--turn the heating or the air-conditioning on before the guest arrives, and give them the Wi-Fi password. The radio is in the living room if they want to use it.

Times change, situations are completely different, but the general intention is still the same (do something nice so visitors are comfortable in your home.)

Now to break the bad news--- I think it is going to take a change of thinking tactics to make this work. Instead of taking every bit of advice people have been giving you for years, plus all the reading you're doing on your own time, and then rejecting it as not perfect for your situation--try thinking of it as something you can extrapolate functioning stuff from.

If you keep doing what you usually do, I guarantee you it will not work at all. And fantasizing about "the perfect girlfriend" is just going to give you a little harem of nonexistent beauties in your own head, which is where a lot of people get trapped, is in their own heads. You get these guys out there who look at women but miss the fact that women are just as messed-up as men. I have seen this in the religious-ish world and it's hilariously pathetic--in the name of their Christian purity these dudes will not look at a normal woman, and retreat into the masturbatory fantasies where they can be the great Sheikh ab-Cholesterol of a non-existent kingdom where everyone is perfect.

I also think you should put a pause on the dating situation for now because dating is no fun unless it gets you & the woman somewhere. Your mom still does all your paperwork and you're still dealing with that. Step one is to split the Idea of Woman from the Idea of Happiness. In pursuit of happiness I suggest get yourself more independent.

A website I've used to help myself out a lot is the Art of Manliness, which is a really interesting site loaded with skills, reading, that sort of thing. I hate the "manosphere" stuff because it seems fake and for some reason it's off-putting--not very friendly, the folks on there; it's just incels advising incels and since you are not philosophically aligned with incels, Markness, save yourself the hassle and ignore them. The AoM stuff is actually quite interesting. You can learn how to do all kinds of things.

Trying to skip directly to the end is where you're having a hard time, at least one area. Go for it!

 

[Tony Ramirez]

For me I am just tired of others going to the same venues I been going to for much less time and much less frequent and forming relationships while I been going much longer and more frequent and all I attract are couples and married woman.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

For me I am just tired of others going to the same venues I been going to for much less time and much less frequent and forming relationships while I been going much longer and more frequent and all I attract are couples and married woman.

But you just said that you had a nice discussion with the sister of a married man. Then you went and shot yourself in the cajones when you did not get her number especially since her brother was married and you discount married people. You had a golden opportunity to follow up, which is very important to women, but let your biases screw that up.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Okay:
I have incredibly bad manners. I read Emily Post's Etiquette (8th edition 1948--it was cheaper used, because not only am I rude, but I am also a cheap bastard.)
The advice in there was set up primarily for a WASP audience, neurotypical (of course), wealthy, and only really fit for the immediate postwar period. However, general principles can be extracted from the text and applied to the situation I find myself in.

1948--suggestion is to leave the windows open in the guestroom & also provide it with a small AM radio, as those are getting inexpensive lately.
2023--turn the heating or the air-conditioning on before the guest arrives, and give them the Wi-Fi password. The radio is in the living room if they want to use it.

Times change, situations are completely different, but the general intention is still the same (do something nice so visitors are comfortable in your home.)

Now to break the bad news--No offense, Markness, but I think it is going to take a change of thinking tactics to make this work. Instead of taking every bit of advice people have been giving you for years, plus all the reading you're doing on your own time, and then rejecting it as not perfect for your situation--try thinking of it as something you can extrapolate functioning stuff from.

If you keep doing what you usually do, I guarantee you it will not work at all. And fantasizing about "the perfect girlfriend" is just going to give you a little harem of nonexistent beauties in your own head, which is where a lot of people get trapped, is in their own heads. You get these guys out there who look at women but miss the fact that women are just as messed-up as men. I have seen this in the religious-ish world and it's hilariously pathetic--in the name of their Christian purity these dudes will not look at a normal woman, and retreat into the masturbatory fantasies where they can be the great Sheikh ab-Cholesterol of a non-existent kingdom where everyone is perfect.

I also think you should put a pause on the dating situation for now because dating is no fun unless it gets you & the woman somewhere. Your mom still does all your paperwork and you're still dealing with that. Step one is to split the Idea of Woman from the Idea of Happiness. In pursuit of happiness I suggest get yourself more independent.

A website I've used to help myself out a lot is the Art of Manliness, which is a really interesting site loaded with skills, reading, that sort of thing. I hate the "manosphere" stuff because it seems fake and for some reason it's off-putting--not very friendly, the folks on there; it's just incels advising incels and since you are not philosophically aligned with incels, Markness, save yourself the hassle and ignore them. The AoM stuff is actually quite interesting. You can learn how to do all kinds of things.

Trying to skip directly to the end is where you're having a hard time, at least one area. Go for it!

Exactly! You are right on target that some guys find it safer to masturbate to their fantasies than to do the work to be attractive and see how so many women are basically attractive (especially for those of us seeing personality as important). There is a great site, Succeed Socially, whifch has excellent hints for those of us socially dysfunctional. It caught my attention for this: Inside The Mind Of Guys Who Are Shy And Inexperienced With Women | www.succeedsocially.com . This was me until I started working on myself because I realized it was me who had to change.

 

[tree]

Those aren’t my exact thoughts. I simply just feel like I am stuck in a quandary and I don’t know if I can find a solution.

I believe those aren't your exact conscious thoughts.

That was my interpretation of what you were saying, which was:
I don’t know how much longer I can wait until I either lose my sanity or commit suicide.


==============
...feel like I am stuck in a quandary...

You feel like you're getting nowhere.

What I see happening is that any fun thing you experience,
you discount, because it wasn't the supreme achievement
you're looking for.

 

[Rodafina]

Step one is to split the Idea of Woman from the Idea of Happiness

I completely agree with this, and I think it could be the most valuable advice to consider. In this thread and on this topic in general, many people discuss women as one and only one thing and that is, a potential partner.

Sometimes, the way that we discuss women makes me very uncomfortable. I don’t usually say this, but here is my experience…

I am a medium aged single woman, uninterested in finding a relationship with anyone including anyone here on the forum. With some members here, I feel less valuable and meaningful to them because of this. Fortunately for me, I do not base my value on what others think of me. My intrinsic value, that which comes from within my own mind, is what is important to me.

If women are unavailable because they have already chosen a partner or because in their own hearts they are unavailable and uninterested in being someone’s girlfriend, there are people right here on this forum who consider them less valuable. We need to stop equating women with girlfriends.

In terms of practical advice, people will pick up on this. People will notice that you are only interested in women as sexual objects or partners that will take all your pain away. This is generally off putting in our modern society.

So specifically to you, @Markness and @Tony Ramirez, I want to be really clear that I respect your heartache and your struggles. I want you to find happy relationships in your life because you have expressed that you want that. I think you are valuable men, worthy of being in a wonderful partnership.

I don’t want my comments to cloud the issue that you don’t have something that you want. I care about your feelings. Remember that you have at least one friend here who is a girl (me) and you speak to almost every day, and you are doing great, but even I can pick up on the notion that you don’t care much about me because I am not a potential partner.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Well said all of us are responsible for our own happiness, not something you can delegate.

 

[Markness]

I don’t want my comments to cloud the issue that you don’t have something that you want. I care about your feelings. Remember that you have at least one friend here who is a girl (me) and you speak to almost every day, and you are doing great, but even I can pick up on the notion that you don’t care much about me because I am not a potential partner.

I don’t think that at all.

 

[kenaij]

I completely agree with this, and I think it could be the most valuable advice to consider. In this thread and on this topic in general, many people discuss women as one and only one thing and that is, a potential partner.

Sometimes, the way that we discuss women makes me very uncomfortable. I don’t usually say this, but here is my experience…

I am a medium aged single woman, uninterested in finding a relationship with anyone including anyone here on the forum. With some members here, I feel less valuable and meaningful to them because of this. Fortunately for me, I do not base my value on what others think of me. My intrinsic value, that which comes from within my own mind, is what is important to me.

If women are unavailable because they have already chosen a partner or because in their own hearts they are unavailable and uninterested in being someone’s girlfriend, there are people right here on this forum who consider them less valuable. We need to stop equating women with girlfriends.

In terms of practical advice, people will pick up on this. People will notice that you are only interested in women as sexual objects or partners that will take all your pain away. This is generally off putting in our modern society.

So specifically to you, @Markness and @Tony Ramirez, I want to be really clear that I respect your heartache and your struggles. I want you to find happy relationships in your life because you have expressed that you want that. I think you are valuable men, worthy of being in a wonderful partnership.

I don’t want my comments to cloud the issue that you don’t have something that you want. I care about your feelings. Remember that you have at least one friend here who is a girl (me) and you speak to almost every day, and you are doing great, but even I can pick up on the notion that you don’t care much about me because I am not a potential partner.

I agree with you. However. Your statements are very one sided. Both men and women generally look at other people as potential mates. This is not only true for men. This is because almost all people have a primary instinct to reproduce. Which you need a mate for. Knowing someone is not a mate instinctively devalues that person.

The notion the oposite sex can only have value as a partner is false thou. But this is true for the same sex aswell. People can have value to you while not being your partner. But can still give great advice. Be there for you when you need them in many different ways. And based on the quality of stuff you contribute to a persons life they will place a value on you. Generally speaking a partner, men and women, give greater value than a friend, colleague and most family members because that person brings a greater amount of things into someones life.
If you do not add to someones life you will have very low value to them, if at all.

All of this does not take away from the fact we should not talk about other people, again men and women, as if they were objects of our desire. And are just there to make us happy. It all goes both ways.

 

[Rodafina]

I don’t think that at all.

Thank you for telling me that. That is encouraging.

 

[Markness]

I still have ghosts of my first depressed and hopeless feelings all the way back to 2006 haunting me whenever I am at work. It’s 2023 now and I still feel like I did back then: unwanted and nothing I do ever works.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I still have ghosts of my first depressed and hopeless feelings all the way back to 2006 haunting me whenever I am at work. It’s 2023 now and I still feel like I did back then: unwanted and nothing I do ever works.

How do you benefit from remembering those feelings?

 

[Rodafina]

I still have ghosts of my first depressed and hopeless feelings all the way back to 2006 haunting me whenever I am at work. It’s 2023 now and I still feel like I did back then: unwanted and nothing I do ever works.

Ghosts are tricky, always showing up when you don’t want them. You need the ghostbusters

(I’m not making fun of your struggles, just trying to make you laugh.)

 

[BoltzmannBrain17]

As a man you'll need to reach a certain level of attractiveness to date. Around a 6-7/10. Firstly lose weight if you're overweight and get to around 15% bodyfat. Then improve whatever else you can improve in regards to your face. Improving your level of physical attractiveness will help you more than pretty much anything else

 

[Rodafina]

As a man you'll need to reach a certain level of attractiveness to date. Around a 6-7/10. Firstly lose weight if you're overweight and get to around 15% bodyfat. Then improve whatever else you can improve in regards to your face. Improving your level of physical attractiveness will help you more than pretty much anything else

Maybe some women would appreciate this approach, and yet some others would see this as lacking depth and meaning. That’s why it all gets so tricky, there is no one magical answer. Best to focus on self improvement that makes you happy.