Culture and Autism

[Geordie]

I went through a discussion with a fellow Aspie friend. We are both members of a writing society. He wants to present our findings as a report, so that we can present it, so that we can write and share about what we know about autism (and other disadvantaged people), and how they live in our country. We also wonder how much has our cultural values and norms affected our perspectives and views on autism.

So, how has your culture affected your views and outlook on autism? Is your culture receptive or supportive of autism? How do people with autism or Asperger's live in your society, and how do they fit within the society? What are positive and negative parts of your culture that you, as someone who knows or lives through Autism/Asperger's, know of? What can other countries learn from your culture in terms of support (and lack thereof) of people with autism?

As for my country I live in currently, let me just say these do happen:

(1) There are family/clan-based politics.

Asian society is patriarchal in general. The first son in the family is almost prepared to succeed the position of leading the whole clan. If he has autism, there is tremendous pressure for him to 'cure' or deal with his autism and support the whole clan. This is a concern to us, because three-fourths of ASDs worldwide seem to be males, despite recent evidence showing that there are more females than we'd thought having ASDs.

(2) Lack of government support in its role to help ASDs.

Traditionally, Asian governments do not deal with welfare, as people are assumed to have their own land to live in. The role of government is to control over people, and to provide basic defence and infrastructure services. Today, governmental expansion in Asia has not grown with societal demands, as there are continued under-investment in education and health services, as well as social services. People with autism (ASDs) in Asia hence do not get sufficient funding and governmental support for their conditions.

(3) Honour

In some parts of Asian society, the values of honour and dishonour is emphasised. Honour is a perceived evaluation of both standing and respectability in society. Asian societies tend to focus on this value concept excessively, to the extent that it would be shameful if one does not do what is socially respected and expected. For example, everyone is supposed to try for University education (even though Asian universities cap enrolment), everyone is supposed to have a girl/boyfriend, etc.

(4) Globalisation pressure

There are tremendous internal struggle for people to deal with two cultures: One traditionally and distintctively local, another 'modern contemporary' culture that is ubiquitous everywhere throughout the world.

 

[total-recoil]

I have a lot of deep thoughts about aspergers and social climate. You said in Asia there is a kind of social pressure inflicted upon people to have girlfriends, families and homes and so on. It's the same in many other countries although I do understand there are differences between Asia and Europe/USA.
The problem many aspies face is they don't fit in with society. However, this is not just the fault of the aspie. Society is so rigid it doesn't accept irregularities. Everybody is supposed to think the same. What you notice is if you don't think the same as everybody else, you can be rejected in all sorts of ways.
Hans Christian Anderson wrote a story about a King who was offered an invisible suit. The servant wanted to win favour with the King so made up a complete fabrication and convinced the King he had an invisible suit for him. The King took all his clothes off and put the invisible suit on because he was taken in by the yarn. That left him naked, of course. Soon as the King told his court about his suit of clothes everybody slowly started to state that, yes, they could see he had this amazing invisible suit. Nobody wanted to be the one who appeared to be so ignorant as not to appreciate the subtle quality of the outfit. People wrote poems about the suit, gave speeches about the wonders of the fabric that couldn't be seen and competed for favour - all saying the same thing.
One day the King is out and about and a boy in the crowd shouts, "Hey, look at the King! He's going around naked!"
At that point the whole fabrication falls apart. At first people are furious with the boy for being so stupid as to not appreciate the fact the King is indeed clothed but then, eventually, other people start to question the whole thing. At that point, the King is made to look like an idiot and everybody else who was taken in.
Hans Christian Anderson was a Dane who is believed to have had A.S. I think the lesson in this story is cultural. Peer or social pressure is what drives a cultural value in many cases. The more people believe that a house, family, girlfriend and a great salary are fundamental to success the greater the pressure. Yet to have those things mean you need to fit in and be accepted by the rest of society. So who would you rather be? The courtiers of the King or the small boy who has the audacity and gall to view things in his own unique way?

I went through a discussion with a fellow Aspie friend. We are both members of a writing society. He wants to present our findings as a report, so that we can present it, so that we can write and share about what we know about autism (and other disadvantaged people), and how they live in our country. We also wonder how much has our cultural values and norms affected our perspectives and views on autism.

So, how has your culture affected your views and outlook on autism? Is your culture receptive or supportive of autism? How do people with autism or Asperger's live in your society, and how do they fit within the society? What are positive and negative parts of your culture that you, as someone who knows or lives through Autism/Asperger's, know of? What can other countries learn from your culture in terms of support (and lack thereof) of people with autism?

As for my country I live in currently, let me just say these do happen:

(1) There are family/clan-based politics.

Asian society is patriarchal in general. The first son in the family is almost prepared to succeed the position of leading the whole clan. If he has autism, there is tremendous pressure for him to 'cure' or deal with his autism and support the whole clan. This is a concern to us, because three-fourths of ASDs worldwide seem to be males, despite recent evidence showing that there are more females than we'd thought having ASDs.

(2) Lack of government support in its role to help ASDs.

Traditionally, Asian governments do not deal with welfare, as people are assumed to have their own land to live in. The role of government is to control over people, and to provide basic defence and infrastructure services. Today, governmental expansion in Asia has not grown with societal demands, as there are continued under-investment in education and health services, as well as social services. People with autism (ASDs) in Asia hence do not get sufficient funding and governmental support for their conditions.

(3) Honour

In some parts of Asian society, the values of honour and dishonour is emphasised. Honour is a perceived evaluation of both standing and respectability in society. Asian societies tend to focus on this value concept excessively, to the extent that it would be shameful if one does not do what is socially respected and expected. For example, everyone is supposed to try for University education (even though Asian universities cap enrolment), everyone is supposed to have a girl/boyfriend, etc.

(4) Globalisation pressure

There are tremendous internal struggle for people to deal with two cultures: One traditionally and distintctively local, another 'modern contemporary' culture that is ubiquitous everywhere throughout the world.

 

[Geordie]

Peer or social pressure is what drives a cultural value in many cases. The more people believe that a house, family, girlfriend and a great salary are fundamental to success the greater the pressure. Yet to have those things mean you need to fit in and be accepted by the rest of society.

So who would you rather be? The courtiers of the King or the small boy who has the audacity and gall to view things in his own unique way?

Indeed, I think sometimes, peer pressure just do not work for us.

Why is there a need for us to pro-create, when doing so will force us to work beyond our ability, and make us unhappy about the worries of other people? I have the desire to form a family, but I am not even surviving - even if I do have a job. I seek a not-so-stressful and happy lifestyle, even if this means I have no family, or get low pay.

I'd rather be the boy who has the audacity to question things in his own way. Unfortunately, no matter where we are - Singapore, America or Europe, it's the same. We'll be outcastes if we dare to question society. Oh, so be it. The government or churches just doesn't understand societal pressures driving us really, really hard, no?

 

[total-recoil]

Have you ever heard of The Tomorrow People? This was a British T.V. series I used to watch as a kid back in the seventies. Here is the link:
The Tomorrow People - YouTube
Lately I've really taken to nostalgia so watch a lot of the programs I used to love as kid like Lost In Space and so on. Well, the Tomorrow People was really a bit corny but basically it was about a group of kids who were like "Homo Superior" as opposed to "Homo Sapiens". All of the kids had experienced difficulties in society and been in trouble but they eventually linked up and would save the world in different ways. They could jaunt a bit like in Star Trek (beamed up) and had various abilities.
So, what if we consider many of the negatives of Aspergers only exist because of the strong positives of the condition. What I mean is, not being socially accepted enables you to consider things and make decisions based on your own thought and not just being influenced by schools, the media, the establishment and status quo. Sure, you can say aspergers is a social disorder in how we relate to others, but is not part of the problem summarised in being different.
Suppose I were to take you guys to remote Mongolia and drop you all off there to live a year? Even non aspie people included. Wouldn't even a non aspie feel strange, unconnected, confused as to social norms and then depressed.
I have known people who had breakdowns after starting to study overseas in foreign cultures.
Now here is a very deep question and it puzzles me a lot. Yes, aspie males often don't marry. Some do, of course, but I think the fact is aspie males are at a disadvantage with girls because in lots of cases they find us either nerdy or hard to figure out and then go for the regular guy who has the flash car and surrounded by friends. So, I wonder about that because we all know aspies are often very gifted and have frequently pushed society forwards not backwards.

Indeed, I think sometimes, peer pressure just do not work for us.

Why is there a need for us to pro-create, when doing so will force us to work beyond our ability, and make us unhappy about the worries of other people? I have the desire to form a family, but I am not even surviving - even if I do have a job. I seek a not-so-stressful and happy lifestyle, even if this means I have no family, or get low pay.

I'd rather be the boy who has the audacity to question things in his own way. Unfortunately, no matter where we are - Singapore, America or Europe, it's the same. We'll be outcastes if we dare to question society. Oh, so be it. The government or churches just doesn't understand societal pressures driving us really, really hard, no?

 

[Geordie]

I really hope I can one of the happy few, who will propel society forward, to a more hopeful and positive direction.

Perhaps I should try positive thinking... beyond my fears of not being able to chase after girls, lol, to think of a future where I can fully indulge in my boyhood dreams

 

[total-recoil]

Don't assume it's a dead loss with girls. When I was younger I was very very shy of them but couldn't stop looking. Now I talk quite freely to girls and joke with them. I get various reactions which sometimes hurt like hell or encourage me to just keep joking and making conversation.
The problem is in some cases relating to girls is really hard because a lot of them are into social talk, dating, soaps on T.V. and texting and so on. I find I can't usually talk to them about what interests me unless they share the same interest.
Anyway, a lot of girls do definitely like guys who may be different but to find that out conversation is a must. It gets easier as you age. The hard part, though, is keeping it going and I also confess I do very often get upset about my not having a great deal to offer. No big house or car. However, I do have my honesty and ethics and also health.
Just be yourself and talk to them and it may get easier. P.S. joking is a great way to get girls to warm to you and accept who you are.

I really hope I can one of the happy few, who will propel society forward, to a more hopeful and positive direction.

Perhaps I should try positive thinking... beyond my fears of not being able to chase after girls, lol, to think of a future where I can fully indulge in my boyhood dreams

 

[Geordie]

Anyway, I just thought,

If you believe it's just tremendous social pressure in all societies that make life miserable for all Aspies, think again:

Do you think Aspies should accept a lower standard in life after they get their diagnosis?

This is what happened. In my society, if one gets Asperger's or something, there is grief over the diagnosis.

Shame to the clan, our eldest son has autism.
What have I done wrong.
There goes the doctor or lawyer, to the diagnosis.

Etc.

Well, we all have dragon-high expectations, so we sink into indefinitely abyss with the diagnosis...

And it's hard to fathom the expectations without asking 'why'.

Because our society, unlike many developed Western societies, is competitive. We seldom give enough opportunities because we're still new in higher education in Asia. Mass higher education had not been possible until very recently. And with such opportunities, come jobs in the public sector and big multinational corporations, which are really doing their best to handle stress from globalised competition.

 

[Loomis]

Hi Geordie,

It is too bad asian culture cannot accept the autism diagnosis and that they consider it shameful. It's different in America. People don't care who or what you are here but on the other hand there is contempt for "losers." It's always possible here to attach yourself to a fringe group and attain a kind of alternative status. Outlaw mortorcycle gangs come to mind. That may not be what I would choose but there is an infinite variety of subcultures one can find and belong to. On the other hand, the United States is not a good place to be poor and disadvantaged. Our prisons are filled with black people because they have been sequestered into poor run-down areas with worthless schools and when they reach adulthood their unemployment rates approach 50%. It is shameful. America has no sympathy for the underclass. The attitude is: it's their own fault. They are lazy and stupid. It is an ugly fact about my country.

Autism is looked upon here as a major disfunction and there is little or no understanding there is a spectrum for autistic traits. My guess is most people over 30 have never heard of aspergers. Younger people are more familiar with it because it has been diagnosed more frequently in the last 10 years. I suspect the attitude among the younger generation is that aspies are functional but a little weird.

 

[total-recoil]

"Do you think Aspies should accept a lower standard in life after they get their diagnosis?"

The idea is they should be protected more by law and public education but so far it seldom happens. If you're in a line of work where social communication is important and you can't handle it, it's not fair you should be penalised. It's like asking a short sighted person to work as a plane spotter without glasses or contacts.
I already decided my own tolerance for such a situation has drawn to a close. I not longer accept being penalised on account of not fitting into the ideals of public convenience.
I still am a big fan of the show Lieutenant Columbo which maybe they sometimes screen in Asia. Columbo is a brilliant detective but looks at the tiny aspects of a case as opposed to the broad picture so he always hits on details everybody else in his team misses. Yet he's scruffy, hasn't got a clue as to social norms, sneezes in peoples' houses and follows people around asking questions. Yet I like him because he holds down a job and outperforms his colleagues.
In Asia it seems there needs to be a change in public atttitude but also in society as a whole. Western society claims to be tolerant but in truth I find little actual tolerance exists. Where I live anyone who is different can be an outcast to some degree.

Anyway, I just thought,

If you believe it's just tremendous social pressure in all societies that make life miserable for all Aspies, think again:

Do you think Aspies should accept a lower standard in life after they get their diagnosis?

This is what happened. In my society, if one gets Asperger's or something, there is grief over the diagnosis.

Shame to the clan, our eldest son has autism.
What have I done wrong.
There goes the doctor or lawyer, to the diagnosis.

Etc.

Well, we all have dragon-high expectations, so we sink into indefinitely abyss with the diagnosis...

And it's hard to fathom the expectations without asking 'why'.

Because our society, unlike many developed Western societies, is competitive. We seldom give enough opportunities because we're still new in higher education in Asia. Mass higher education had not been possible until very recently. And with such opportunities, come jobs in the public sector and big multinational corporations, which are really doing their best to handle stress from globalised competition.

 

[King_Oni]

Do you think Aspies should accept a lower standard in life after they get their diagnosis?

Define "lower standard"?

For instance; if I'm diagnosed with autism and that's a big problem for me to get employed, I have a lower standard in life, since I don't get a big paycheck each month. It, however, is a law that you're still getting benefits in worth of 75% of the minimumwage in The Netherlands (opposed to only 50% of minimum wage if you're on unemployment benefits).

There is a debate going on in medical care and employment in The Netherlands about wellbeing of people who are sick. Specifically regarding people who are prone to die cause of their disease (cancer and whatnot)... how much of a life should you extend for them? The concept of quality vs. quantity of life is becoming an issue and as such mental wellbeing is a big issue now.

It might be a different deal in Singapore. Here we don't look down on family that's "sick" and isn't the perfect son/daughter to make sure the family keeps expanding in the long run for instance. Maybe we just take it more like "the way it is" and make the best out of it.