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Conversations with people...

DogwoodTree

Still here...
If you're able to carry on conversations with people, how do you do it? Is it a lot of hard work, or does it come easily for you?

I've studied people so much over the years...I have algorithms...rules...patterns...that I can follow to emulate functional conversation. It's a lot of work, kind of like what doing algebra would be for most people. But it passes well enough. I have to continually work at improving my algorithms, because I tend to push one or two aspects too hard (like asking too many questions), so then it doesn't feel natural to other people. Plus, I learned some very unhealthy relational patterns from my family, so I'm having to reprogram all of those algorithms, too.

This is all exhausting. Plus, I don't really feel connected to people through these kinds of conversations, and yet, it's the best way to keep from tiring people out from interacting with me.

Lately, I've been experimenting a little with a different approach. Instead of aiming for "connection," I'm trying to be "present" in the conversation in a way that somehow, on some level, accurately reflects who I am. Maybe it's not completely fluid or comfortable or intuitive, but it's at least more genuine...a little. I'm still practicing and trying to figure it out.

How do you handle conversations? What's your approach or strategy, if you have one?
 
I feel your pain, and so does everyone here I'm sure.
It's such a huge task isn't it.
I don't know if I'm actually good at it either.
But I find if it's new people I'm speaking to it's easy to ask a few questions about them and they talk long enough about themselves to feel like you were with them in the conversation. And I store pieces of information that are clearly important to them. Like if they smile when they talk about something. Ask them about that next time you see them.
I think our gift of empathy is so great, look at them, study them (sounds like you do this completely already) use it, if they look sad ask if they're ok and pause. Pausing is the greatest trick I've got, people give up way more information if you're not trying to jump in and have a conversation. They feel like you're listening.
People like to talk about themselves.
It sounds like you care a lot about connecting with people, I'm sure this is clear when you're talking.
But also, it is tough and if people know you, they will know this and they won't judge you for it. :)
 
I find if it's new people I'm speaking to it's easy to ask a few questions about them and they talk long enough about themselves to feel like you were with them in the conversation.

Yes, this is helpful for the first couple of conversations. After that, it seems there's supposed to be more of a "hanging out" vibe rather than an "information transmittal" task orientation, and that's the part where my AS shows through the most. Like...I really, really don't get the "hanging out" part. At all. It's like requiring a 4th grader to do calculus. It just doesn't happen.
 
Yes, this is helpful for the first couple of conversations. After that, it seems there's supposed to be more of a "hanging out" vibe rather than an "information transmittal" task orientation, and that's the part where my AS shows through the most. Like...I really, really don't get the "hanging out" part. At all. It's like requiring a 4th grader to do calculus. It just doesn't happen.

I do know what you mean and it's awful. I find I have to stick to talking about the connection we share, like work etc. Anything outside of that is so hard to get to.
My best friend and I went to uni together and I suppose we spent three years talking about that. Once we graduated and had separate lives it's certainly more difficult, we mostly talk about research as we're both researchers. I know it's Crap that it's so difficult to know what to say when we're outside that shared connection zone. So uncomfortable. I do tend to still let people talk about themselves and I find people call me a good listener and confide in me.
I only have a handful of people I'm comfortable being completely myself with, who see my actual personality.
I don't actually know if I will ever get past that. I feel like I'm acting most of the time, unless it's with those small few.
I haven't helped in any way! Sorry! ;)
 
I'm quite bad at keeping a conversation going or starting one with a person I know nothing about, there tends to be awkward silences if I'm left to carry it on.

Someone explained to me the other week that there's two types of questions you can ask someone, closed and open ended. Closed questions are one word (or similar) answers like when or what. Open ended questions are things like why or how. Open ended ones are generally better to use after the closed ended questions.
 
Okay, so maybe conversation isn't as easy to hold as the movies, books, and tv shows make it look. It doesn't have to come down to who is an NT and who isn't. Sometimes it is about who you're talking to. If the person you are talking to doesn't have a vaguely similar personality as you, you won't get a connection. Conversation can be about one of two things: 1. connection. 2. getting information. Between friends and family and acquaintances, connection us usually sought. For more secular persons, it is usually about information. Before you establish that a conversation is going to be made, it is helpful to know why it was or will be initiated in the first place. Establishing common ground is important. Focusing on the other person. Connection is so much easier when the person you're talking to shares common ground with you, whether it be personality or interests, etc. If conversation feels forced, I see no point in continuing the conversation, but that is just my opinion. It should just feel natural. Generally speaking - and this doesn't work for everyone but it works for some - if you are wanting to get to know someone, it is easier to get them to talk about themselves by talking a little bit (key words: a little bit) about yourself. Then you can build on the foundation of friendship with almost anyone.
 
Conversation can be about one of two things: 1. connection. 2. getting information.

I can do the information-exchange type of conversation well enough. It's the connection type of conversation I totally suck at, even with people who are more like me. Even when we have interests in common. Even when we have common ground. That might make it easier to keep the conversation rolling, but it doesn't result in a sense of "connection"...feeling like I "belong" in the relationship...feeling a sense of security with the other person...feeling relaxed and safe instead of under pressure to perform...feeling like the conversation is just organic and free-flowing...none of that happens for me, no matter who I'm talking with or what we're talking about.

It's always information exchange, or it's nothing. I don't know how to do the "just hanging out" kind of chatting, not in a way that feels good and relaxed and peaceful.

There are a couple of women I've been talking with online lately...I know them IRL but we've been communicating through Facebook a lot instead. We're doing a lot of information exchange. As long as there's a topic to discuss...a task to be accomplished...data that is at least mildly interesting...I can keep the volley going. But I don't know how to transition into a more relaxed "let's just chat for the fun of it" kind of thing. I'm terrified they're going to ask me to "hang out" sometime, and they'll discover how socially deficient I am. I sound much better in writing than I do in person. :(
 
I simply stick to writing rather than the in real life stuff. Complicating the equations is my self: I look and act different than most people of my age and gender. It is hard to predict people's reactions to these perceived 'anomalies.'

One can study and memorize and tinker with observed behaviors, but - for me - inevitably I guess one pathway wrong and then another. Not a pleasant result. Best (for me) to keep solely to writing.

Practice becoming used to demanding from one's self a stance of being comfortable and confident. If NT's are then there is every reason for aspies to be as well. Why not use our world view as the correct and powerful one.

Humans aren't very good company for me in real life. Bottome line is humans are killing our fellow earth creatures while we are busy texting, consuming, hunting for sport, talking and whining. Why would I want to learn to be like other humans anyway.
 
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It comes easily with other people, especially people I have some sort of history with. People from school or work for example, we would come together after class, or go down the street to have lunch together, talk about our interests, discuss people, teachers, class work. We would go to movies together and have coffee and talk about the movie afterwards.

Had lots of after class socializing with profs and students where we discussed the subjects, where we socialized at parties, at their homes, eating chili or spaghetti in the kitchen. History or philosophy or books were usually the subjects, or current events. Saw relationships form, listened to music, our conversations were about many things, and if they interested me or I had something to contribute, I contributed, there were arguments late into the nights, both sides retreating or coming forward. We dissected ideas, opinions, had heated discussions, or lazy weekend afternoons sitting at a cafe eating and talking. Suppose I never approached it with any sort of idea of how it should be, people talk about themselves, their backgrounds, their families, ideas, interests, other people, and I listen and respond. I either give my opinion or idea based on the information given and my thoughts on the subject or I listen and don't say very much unless asked.

Suppose it's the student lifestyle, and was lucky to have so many others around who wanted to socialize. There is a certain 'togetherness' with people in their twenties. We all lived in the same area, saw one another daily, met at cafes and the student union, there was an interchange of ideas with many different types of people. People met to play chess or cards or backgammon at local cafes, all the while talking about everything.

There were other connections too, later with dog owners. We discussed food, training, dogs, vets. Some are still in contact today. When we married there were several other couples that we knew from school, jobs, that we got together with regularly. Having dinners together, anniversaries, marriages, their children's births. Those relationships were mainly based in commonalities such as job discussions, real estate, politics, religion. Those couples with the exception of myself and another couple are no longer together, and we drifted apart. After buying homes, and raising children, you do become less likely to socialize as there are other priorities. Yet, there are several people that we can still have those late night conversations with, we simply don't see them as much as we used to, there's likely less in the way of ideas to disseminate.
 
Since I didn't know I was an Aspie, I didn't know that my apparent ease with conversation was actually my brain working overtime, figuring it all out. Or something. I'm still trying to work out ways to be social with strangers.

Now, people who are friends, I seem to do okay by finding things that interest us both and share that... even if it is our feelings about the thing. It's all information when you look at it that way.
 
I thought today i sometimes feel like a robot trying to process what other people want to hear from me in a conversation. It is hard for me it doesn´t come naturally. For example if they say they like some food it feels odd for me to say back that i like that too. Like its obvious to me and doesnt need to be said out loud. And sometimes my mind just draws complete blanks and i feel stupid.
 
For example if they say they like some food it feels odd for me to say back that i like that too. Like its obvious to me and doesnt need to be said out loud.

Just because it is in your head doesn't mean it is in theirs.
 
Sally-Anne.png
 
Just because it is in your head doesn't mean it is in theirs.

This is true, but for myself...I see so many of the things people say as being the "obvious" next thing to say. It's all scripted. It all happens in patterns. It's the same few conversations over and over again.

Like:

Hi! How are you?
Good, how about you?
Good. How was your weekend?
It was good. We ... [insert a couple of highlights] How about yours?
etc etc

Why even say it, if everyone knows what is about to be said?

That was a simplified example, but it happens in more nuanced conversations, too. In the usual, superficial conversations, I can often predict the next thing said or asked within just a few possibilities, and none of the variances fundamentally change the meaning or course of the conversation.

So why say them at all?

And yet, most people seem to want to say these things anyway. So then I'm either bored out of my mind, or racking my brains trying to understand how they're amused by the conversation. And I keep wanting to mix it up, and say something different, and make it "real." I want to be genuine and original and creative in my conversations, not stuck to scripts all the time. But I can't think that fast to come up with something that would actually feel like a connection with the other person.
 
I am a cashier and part of my job is to be friendly, smile, and carry a short conversation all while I check the person out.
I find myself asking each customer the same questions. I also smile at the same time to each person, try to look at their face/ eyes at the same time. I basically have a pattern. I start to slip up and stutter if I am not focused or tired. I am constantly worried that I come off as unnatural but I have been training myself to not worry about what others think.
When it comes to other conversations, like if I see someone I know, go to the bank, etc. I basically have a pattern for those situations too.
Where it gets tricky is when I am with my friends and we supposed to be holding a conversation and hanging out. I feel like I either say too much or too little but they never comment and we're still friends so...
It is all very exhausting. I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has the same troubles. [emoji26]
Hope this helps in some way!
Ashlee [emoji5]
 
I have occasional good days and tons of bad days. I find it all very exhausting, because people seem to accept a certain type of conversation with one person, but won't with another and I think: what am I doing wrong? Ah, maybe I am too enthusiastic about how great things are going with my health and coming across and as an annoying person and I guess rather arrogant. I do not think I am, but can only suppose I am, judging from the reaction. I can read faces now, but only to a certain extent.

As soon as I walk into a room with many people, I want to turn around and walk out again!
 
I have occasional good days and tons of bad days. I find it all very exhausting, because people seem to accept a certain type of conversation with one person, but won't with another and I think: what am I doing wrong? Ah, maybe I am too enthusiastic about how great things are going with my health and coming across and as an annoying person and I guess rather arrogant. I do not think I am, but can only suppose I am, judging from the reaction. I can read faces now, but only to a certain extent.

As soon as I walk into a room with many people, I want to turn around and walk out again!
I think sometimes we may come off as 'wierd'. The other option is that they are just having a bad day. There are a lot of customers who don't want to talk.
 
This is true, but for myself...I see so many of the things people say as being the "obvious" next thing to say. It's all scripted. It all happens in patterns. It's the same few conversations over and over again.

You are right. Not that I don't have those same thoughts! But it is what I think of as "primate signaling."

If everyone went to play group or school with a bunch of little signs: "Hello I wish to be friendly" "I have no ill intent towards you" "I am not not a threat"

That is what they are for. It's getting a job done, but it's not the job it sounds like.
 
"Conversations" are extremely rare for me. I stick to sharing of information, may slip in a joke or two, then off to alone time againg. My SO frequently grills me on things in an attempt to get information from me, what she calls getting me to talk freely, but I often feel as if I'm being cross examination by a lawyer who's trying to get me to cave and admit guilt. 13 years of this has made me rather uninterested in engaging in conversations.
 
I do know what you mean and it's awful. I find I have to stick to talking about the connection we share, like work etc. Anything outside of that is so hard to get to.
My best friend and I went to uni together and I suppose we spent three years talking about that. Once we graduated and had separate lives it's certainly more difficult, we mostly talk about research as we're both researchers. I know it's Crap that it's so difficult to know what to say when we're outside that shared connection zone. So uncomfortable. I do tend to still let people talk about themselves and I find people call me a good listener and confide in me.
I only have a handful of people I'm comfortable being completely myself with, who see my actual personality.
I don't actually know if I will ever get past that. I feel like I'm acting most of the time, unless it's with those small few.
I haven't helped in any way! Sorry! ;)


Chatting is extremely stressful for me. As I've gotten some age on me, I tend not to worry so much about awkward silences -- I let them be, since maintaining a tolerable stress level is more important to me. Here I go again: Fortunately, I have a chatty NT wife who can talk your ear off. If need be, I can jump in when I feel comfy doing so. Hey, you're a good listener, a role that is quite rare these days.
 

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