Can anyone here read body language and facial expressions

[Gift2humanity]

I can see the obvious stuff like smiles and frowns and people huddling in fear. But those tests you see every now and again about facial expression? Half of the faces I see don't appear to express any emotion at all. yet they are supposed to be expressing anger or contempt or disgust or sadness or whatever. Also, I can't seem to distinguish between surprise and fear on a face.

I got 54 out of 100, I can tell blatant expressions, glare, anger, but I use the mouth to gauge expressions.
I am hopeless at reading the mind in the eyes.
Had to have a break, this letter is exhausting me. its pages long, gonna try and make it briefer as I have loads left to do.
We spent 3hrs together, but I cant believe I missed so much, given him examples of my behaviours.
He wont recognise face blindness, I am being measured using the ICD 10 which I think is restrictive.

 

[Misery]

I know the 9-5 grind is a pain but how do you make a living?
Comics are also good at teaching life lessons.
I really wish I hadn't given up reading.
It's a strange reason why I gave up reading, but I think the ASD folk on here will understand.

I have really poor co-ordination, I could talk at one year old but didn't learn to walk until 14 months and even then, could not keep my balance for a long time.

I was an obsessive reader, I might have even learnt before 2.
My Dad used to sadistically taunt me for falling down all the time.
I have synaesthesia across a few senses.

One day I saw my brother read a comic, and the shape of one of the speech bubbles reminded me of the sensation I got when my bottom hit the floor, when I fell down.
I averted my gaze from the speech bubble and never picked up another book or comic again, except for Enid Blyton books my mum got me for Christmas.

Unfortunately she bought Mr Twiddle a forgetful man, who I identified with.
Stupid story with no lessons in, repeated chapters about his mistakes.

I believe if I had of kept reading, I would have developed really well. Mum thought I was gifted but Dad refused to have me checked.

When he took us to the library he put me off by telling me I would have to pay fines.
It was like he didn't want me to read and grow.
I am now unemployed, miserable and feel like I have failed in life at 53 years old.

I really hope that I can get this diagnosis.
I have face-blindness
I have the face of an autistic person, we have cupids bows for top lips.
I have a strabismus.
I have poor co-ordination.
I have special interests.
I feel sorry for inanimate objects.
I have really unusual fixations.
I cannot tell what people are intending or thinking and am easily conned and fooled.
I have a funny gait and a funny walk.
I used to have a monotone voice until I practiced sounding higher pitched like the others.
I need a routine.
I need certainty in my life.
I hate being touched or hugged.
I can sing perfect pitch.
I can draw photo realistically.
Many other things, but I tend to ramble so I better stop there.

Hm, a few things I want to say here.

Firstly, to answer your question. Er... I dont "make a living", actually. When I said that me having a job was unnecessary, I was being very literal. It would serve no purpose at all, as I have no need of the money. Wealthy family, you see. This wasnt ALWAYS the case... the change occurred over the course of a couple of years, and immediately after that change was done is when I was diagnosed. I think it was also realized as to just how horribly miserable I was when working, so.... yeah, put those together, and it's just bloody stupid for me to get a job.

Now, that doesnt mean that I've never done anything else. Here's the way I look at it: A "job" for me would mean doing something stupid like being a cashier at freaking Walmart. Nothing that's even remotely important... basically, making money for someone ELSE (the guys at the top of the corporation).

Instead, I can spend time doing things that arent a bloody waste of time. I can care for my wonderful dogs, make their lives as great as can be. I can visit my grandmother, and other relatives. I can spend time trying to help people on here (whether or not that's successful, is debatable, hah). I've also done some game development, contracted to an indie dev that I got to know. That DID pay me, as the lead dev steadfastly refuses the idea of not paying someone for their time, but I did it to help them out, and I'd always dreamed of making a game of my own. It went well! I'm actually considering trying solo development, starting this next month. I figure, if I can make something that doesnt suck, and sell it, maybe I can take that money and either donate it, or put it towards my nephew's... college fund? I dont know, I dont understand that sort of thing. I'll do something with it that is useful to someone. I rather expect the development process to be filled with incredible moments of frustration and screaming incoherently at the monitor. I dont like bug hunting. But dagnabit, I'm going to do it.

So that's what "work" is to me, based on my situation and how I view things.

Now, you listed alot of different qualities you have there. I hope you understand, pretty much all of us have our own share of either problems, or screwball traits.

Some of mine:

I have a memory like a cheese grater. You know, full of holes. Always have. Always will.
As such, I'm VERY unreliable.
I'm a total airhead. I do very spaced out things. Like trying to unlock a hotel room door with my car remote (that's my favorite story to tell). I'm pretty sure I tried to make a sandwich out of toothpaste once but I'm a bit unclear on that. And no, I'm not exaggerating or making this up.
Everything hurts.
I'm male. But only technically. I have alot of gender issues, and I get mistaken for a girl at random intervals. This doesnt actually bug me, to be honest, but it DEFINITELY can bug others. Many people... they dont like that.
I have a variety of hobbies.... none of which are shared by those close to me. I'm always alone, with any of them. This does bother me rather frequently, but... nothing I can do about that.
I have ZERO patience, and this can lead to mood explosions.
Everything hurts.
Like I said, I cant do eye contact. At all. This, of course, bothers people. Causes friction sometimes.
I have very few friends.
Everything hurts.
You said you feel sorry for inanimate objects. Well, I do that too, but... I also tend to talk to them. I seriously will have a rather agitated conversation with a spoon because it slid off the table when I was trying to have my meal. Yes, this is every bit as absurd as it sounds.
Dont like physical contact, except from my dogs.
I *definitely* have unusual fixations. Lately I have this bizarre obsession with creepy dolls. No, I dont know why. I find it's usually best to not question it. I also get really, REALLY obsessive over fictional characters I like. I'm a cosplayer, because of that.
I have absolutely incredible hearing! But I also cant filter things out and I get overloaded easily! It's just as much fun as it sounds!
Everything hurts.


But hey, I've got good points too.
*Extremely coordinated*. All those video games.
Mental processing speed is beyond fast. Dont know why. Useful for gaming and driving though.
Good reasoning and logic, when I'm not being airheaded and trying to make a Pringles tube into a hat or something.
The whole "I look really feminine" thing has actually paid off sometimes and led to some... interesting experiences.
I seem to be a magnet for weird stuff. Which doesnt sound like a positive, but I think it's hilarious fun. Usually. "Normal" is boring, so I quite enjoy seeing things like that random pirate and guy in a top hat cross the intersection near the house for no apparent reason (yes, that happened. No, it wasnt close to Halloween. It's one of the less bizarre stories I could tell).


There's others, but my memory is going faulty again. Oh, and I'm 38 by the way, if that matters somehow.

My point though is: We all understand what it's like to have a variety of negative or just strange qualities, and what it's like to be outcasts, of a sort. You are never alone, in experiencing things like that. Never feel that it's "just you" or something like that, and always know that if something is bothering you... well, that's what this place is for.

But, like all of us... I think you probably have more positive qualities than you think you do. It's so, so easy for us to focus on the negative, and not see the positive. But the positive is there.

Also, I'd like to make a suggestion: Get a new hobby. Something that is going to really get the mental gears going. I can tell you from hard experience: letting those gears get rusty... getting stuck in a rut, wallowing too much in the mire of boredom and negative emotions... it'll wreck ya. I went through the sorts of feelings you seem to be expressing here, and THAT was what cured it. Mental engagement and excitement is very, very important but so many of us seem to get stuck into a routine of not doing much (and no, watching stuff doesnt count). Also, get exercise, and drink LOTS OF WATER. I cant emphasize that enough. You want to start feeling better? That's the best place to start.


Sorry, long post here I know, but I'm terrible at being concise. I usually just rant until I feel like I've said what I wanted to, even if I'm not entirely sure what it is I wanted to say. But anyway, I hope you understand that I, and others, can fully sympathize, but also that there's more to you than just this pile of negatives that you've stated.

 

[Fino]

I always think I'm doing okay and end up wrong very often.

 

[MyLifeAsAnAspie]

The DSM-5 doesn't even give reading body language or facial expressions as examples of "deficits in social communication". I have to wonder if you're assessor is qualified. Here is the
DSM-5: Autism Diagnosis Criteria: DSM-5 | Autism Speaks
Sure many ASD folk aren't even making eye-contact, so what facial expression do you expect us to read . But it's a spectrum with different types and traits like that are not required for an ASD diagnosis.

 

[NightMuse]

I'm usually good at reading body language if someone is upset. If a guy is flirting with me, however...forget it. I'm as thick as a brick in that circumstance.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Nope, I'm clueless.

 

[SolarPoweredNightOwl]

The DSM-5 doesn't even give reading body language or facial expressions as examples of "deficits in social communication". I have to wonder if you're assessor is qualified. Here is the
DSM-5: Autism Diagnosis Criteria: DSM-5 | Autism Speaks
Sure many ASD folk aren't even making eye-contact, so what facial expression do you expect us to read . But it's a spectrum with different types and traits like that are not required for an ASD diagnosis.

OP mentioned the ICD-10. Between that and "mum" etc, I assume OP is in the UK. The DSM is primarily (only?) used in America if I'm not mistaken.

That said, after many of the horror stories I've heard on here, and the absolute rubbish written by NTs on the subject of autism, I think one should always question whether or not one's assessor is qualified. Being older and a woman won't help, either. Best of luck challenging things, OP.

 

[Au Naturel]

"absolute rubbish written by NTs on the subject of autism"

There is some true rubbish written about autism, often by an NT who has decided to speak for us. Often with a "puzzle" ribbon for a logo.

"I get mistaken for a girl at random intervals"

You lucky guy! I wish someone would mistake me for a girl. I think it would be incredibly cool. But I am an older cis-het and about as masculine as it gets. Naturally feminine looking guys are incredibly beautiful.

 

[Siv]

I'd like to think I'm okay with it , but I do need improvement. I also feel as if people don't really show their true feelings toward me generally.

 

[Bolletje]

Can I ask you, please? how did you get a diagnosis when you can read body language and facial expressions-what criteria did they base your diagnosis on?
That would really help me

I only got diagnosed when I was 29, because of my masking and my academic success. Typical female Aspie story really. It was only because I was seeing a bright psychologist for my recurrent depressions. The fact that I never felt like I belonged anywhere, combined with social anxiety, made her start a diagnostic process for autism. In the end it took a team of mental health professionals to decide whether or not I’m on the spectrum, because I have some typical traits but also some traits not typically associated with autism. I’ll try to list some of the reasons they decided I am on the spectrum:

-I need people to be very specific with me. I get very agitated over vague promises or vague assignments.
-I get extremely agitated when people are late and I can’t stand being late for appointments myself. I’m always way too early.
-I have a set way of doing things and I get agitated when people try to interfere with that. For example, if I am cooking dinner I cannot have someone helping me, unless that person is willing to follow my instructions to the letter. If they don’t do that I get angry.
-I have a lot of special interests that I know a lot about, I could talk about those forever.
-I’m a little disconnected from society. I don’t watch TV, I don’t listen to the radio and I’m not interested in celebrities. I have no clue what’s popular at the moment and I’m not interested in finding out. I do listen to music a lot, but it’s seldom mainstream.
I do keep up with the news, but I only read articles about things I think are important.
-I mostly keep to myself. I’m perfectly happy staying at home and generally only leave the house to go grocery shopping. I have friends, but I rarely feel like meeting them in person. I’m happy with maintaining a friendship via WhatsApp messages. If I meet up with people it’s generally at their insistence.
-I need time to mentally prepare to do things. I am rarely up for spontaneous adventures. If someone calls me and asks me to hang out right now it’s generally an automatic no, even if I have no plans whatsoever (which is most days). I do not want unexpected visitors and my friends know not to come by without asking me in advance.
-I feel very uncomfortable in social situations. The more people, the greater my discomfort. Having lunch with coworkers makes me miserable because I never know when it’s my turn to talk and a lot of the subjects they talk about are things I don’t know about (TV, pop music, celebrity gossip). I have a tendency to withdraw into myself in these situations.
-I have very keen senses, to the point that I am often being ridiculed for noticing things other people don’t. I’ve learned to mostly keep this to myself. I’ve also got a great eye for detail and for noticing patterns others don’t. This has helped me a lot in my work.
-I can be very direct, often interpreted as being blunt or rude. I’ve learned to guard my tongue, but when I’m caught off guard, or when I’m tired or emotional, I accidentally offend people.
-I get overstimulated from noise, crowds or lots of visual stimuli. When I’m feeling good my threshold for overstimulation is a lot higher than when I’m feeling bad.

I could go on and on, but I think this gives some idea of how I came to be diagnosed Feel free to ask if you have more questions though.

 

[SusanLR]

I feel pretty confident at reading body language if I ever look at anybody!
If you don't pay attention to people or can't do the look in the eye thing,
then it isn't easy.

But, I do people watching when I am out in a crowd and just sitting around.
I can tell the different body postures and expressions.
In fact it is something I enjoy. Watching how people act. I do this in restaurants
and places like a mall. The mall is a great people watching place.
The one by where I live has an ice rink. I like watching the skaters.
I get a cold drink and have a seat.
Watching the instructors trying to teach the kids.
Watch the people sitting around on the second floor by themselves or with others
in the easy chairs, tables and chairs eating, and a constand flow of people walking by.

I have a friend who is ASD also and we can talk about anything together comfortably.
Text, calls, can go for hours.
Yet in person when we talk, we cannot look at each other.
I talk and try to look at him some. As soon as I do, down goes his face and eyes towards the ground.
Then it is reversed. He says something to me and I get a good look at his shoes.
If anyone should watch us having a conversation and observe our body language, it would probably
confuse the heck out of them.

 

[onlything]

It's become easier since I started actively studying body language. A bit easier to understand people and avoid faux pas.

There's so much to learn though! It's literally like learning a different language to me. Even a slight thrown can have multiple variations that mean completely different things and it's just a small part of the face - you still have the rest of it, shoulders, hands, back, legs! And at the same time a single sign can mean one thing alone, something else with additional one but something completely else with another!

 

[Jonn]

Are there any of you here any good at reading body language and facial expressions?

I think I am pretty good, but I didn't find the online test particularly easy, though I think I did alright if memory serves me correctly.

 

[Jonn]

or can't do the look in the eye thing,
then it isn't easy.

Perhaps that is why I'm quite good at reading body language.
I have no trouble looking people in the eyes, unlike many of my peers.
I had to learn to consciously look away because people would think I am staring.
I never thought of that before. Thank you.

 

[Jonn]

Also, I can't seem to distinguish between surprise and fear on a face.

I had a problem with that, also.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Hm, a few things I want to say here.

Firstly, to answer your question. Er... I dont "make a living", actually. When I said that me having a job was unnecessary, I was being very literal. It would serve no purpose at all, as I have no need of the money. Wealthy family, you see. This wasnt ALWAYS the case... the change occurred over the course of a couple of years, and immediately after that change was done is when I was diagnosed. I think it was also realized as to just how horribly miserable I was when working, so.... yeah, put those together, and it's just bloody stupid for me to get a job.

Now, that doesnt mean that I've never done anything else. Here's the way I look at it: A "job" for me would mean doing something stupid like being a cashier at freaking Walmart. Nothing that's even remotely important... basically, making money for someone ELSE (the guys at the top of the corporation).

Instead, I can spend time doing things that arent a bloody waste of time. I can care for my wonderful dogs, make their lives as great as can be. I can visit my grandmother, and other relatives. I can spend time trying to help people on here (whether or not that's successful, is debatable, hah). I've also done some game development, contracted to an indie dev that I got to know. That DID pay me, as the lead dev steadfastly refuses the idea of not paying someone for their time, but I did it to help them out, and I'd always dreamed of making a game of my own. It went well! I'm actually considering trying solo development, starting this next month. I figure, if I can make something that doesnt suck, and sell it, maybe I can take that money and either donate it, or put it towards my nephew's... college fund? I dont know, I dont understand that sort of thing. I'll do something with it that is useful to someone. I rather expect the development process to be filled with incredible moments of frustration and screaming incoherently at the monitor. I dont like bug hunting. But dagnabit, I'm going to do it.

So that's what "work" is to me, based on my situation and how I view things.

Now, you listed alot of different qualities you have there. I hope you understand, pretty much all of us have our own share of either problems, or screwball traits.

Some of mine:

I have a memory like a cheese grater. You know, full of holes. Always have. Always will.
As such, I'm VERY unreliable.
I'm a total airhead. I do very spaced out things. Like trying to unlock a hotel room door with my car remote (that's my favorite story to tell). I'm pretty sure I tried to make a sandwich out of toothpaste once but I'm a bit unclear on that. And no, I'm not exaggerating or making this up.
Everything hurts.
I'm male. But only technically. I have alot of gender issues, and I get mistaken for a girl at random intervals. This doesnt actually bug me, to be honest, but it DEFINITELY can bug others. Many people... they dont like that.
I have a variety of hobbies.... none of which are shared by those close to me. I'm always alone, with any of them. This does bother me rather frequently, but... nothing I can do about that.
I have ZERO patience, and this can lead to mood explosions.
Everything hurts.
Like I said, I cant do eye contact. At all. This, of course, bothers people. Causes friction sometimes.
I have very few friends.
Everything hurts.
You said you feel sorry for inanimate objects. Well, I do that too, but... I also tend to talk to them. I seriously will have a rather agitated conversation with a spoon because it slid off the table when I was trying to have my meal. Yes, this is every bit as absurd as it sounds.
Dont like physical contact, except from my dogs.
I *definitely* have unusual fixations. Lately I have this bizarre obsession with creepy dolls. No, I dont know why. I find it's usually best to not question it. I also get really, REALLY obsessive over fictional characters I like. I'm a cosplayer, because of that.
I have absolutely incredible hearing! But I also cant filter things out and I get overloaded easily! It's just as much fun as it sounds!
Everything hurts.


But hey, I've got good points too.
*Extremely coordinated*. All those video games.
Mental processing speed is beyond fast. Dont know why. Useful for gaming and driving though.
Good reasoning and logic, when I'm not being airheaded and trying to make a Pringles tube into a hat or something.
The whole "I look really feminine" thing has actually paid off sometimes and led to some... interesting experiences.
I seem to be a magnet for weird stuff. Which doesnt sound like a positive, but I think it's hilarious fun. Usually. "Normal" is boring, so I quite enjoy seeing things like that random pirate and guy in a top hat cross the intersection near the house for no apparent reason (yes, that happened. No, it wasnt close to Halloween. It's one of the less bizarre stories I could tell).


There's others, but my memory is going faulty again. Oh, and I'm 38 by the way, if that matters somehow.

My point though is: We all understand what it's like to have a variety of negative or just strange qualities, and what it's like to be outcasts, of a sort. You are never alone, in experiencing things like that. Never feel that it's "just you" or something like that, and always know that if something is bothering you... well, that's what this place is for.

But, like all of us... I think you probably have more positive qualities than you think you do. It's so, so easy for us to focus on the negative, and not see the positive. But the positive is there.

Also, I'd like to make a suggestion: Get a new hobby. Something that is going to really get the mental gears going. I can tell you from hard experience: letting those gears get rusty... getting stuck in a rut, wallowing too much in the mire of boredom and negative emotions... it'll wreck ya. I went through the sorts of feelings you seem to be expressing here, and THAT was what cured it. Mental engagement and excitement is very, very important but so many of us seem to get stuck into a routine of not doing much (and no, watching stuff doesnt count). Also, get exercise, and drink LOTS OF WATER. I cant emphasize that enough. You want to start feeling better? That's the best place to start.


Sorry, long post here I know, but I'm terrible at being concise. I usually just rant until I feel like I've said what I wanted to, even if I'm not entirely sure what it is I wanted to say. But anyway, I hope you understand that I, and others, can fully sympathize, but also that there's more to you than just this pile of negatives that you've stated.

Yeah I don't wanna waste my life doing "jobs" I don't want to do for the money, I would rather work, even if it is for a company doing something I love to earn my money.

Yeah my traits have caused friction.
I have also had a bizarre obsession with creepy dolls, and I don't mean the modern manufactured olde worlde dolls you see today, I mean the vintage ones made in the 19th Century, they look EVIL.
I get you about being stuck in a rut, I feel trapped in a situation I can't get out of, too sensitive to put on a public board though, sorry.
Thanks for sharing your stuff.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I had a problem with that, also.

Me too sometimes

 

[Progster]

No, not that well. I look at people when they are speaking, but rarely look directly in their eyes, and miss the microexpressions or subtle changes in expression. I generally know when a person is happy, sad, angry as these are more obvious and are easy to spot, but don't pick up well on moe subtle nuances.

And then, when I do sense a person's emotion, I don't always know what to do with it, or what is expected of me socially, if anything at all.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I only got diagnosed when I was 29, because of my masking and my academic success. Typical female Aspie story really. It was only because I was seeing a bright psychologist for my recurrent depressions. The fact that I never felt like I belonged anywhere, combined with social anxiety, made her start a diagnostic process for autism. In the end it took a team of mental health professionals to decide whether or not I’m on the spectrum, because I have some typical traits but also some traits not typically associated with autism. I’ll try to list some of the reasons they decided I am on the spectrum:

-I need people to be very specific with me. I get very agitated over vague promises or vague assignments.
-I get extremely agitated when people are late and I can’t stand being late for appointments myself. I’m always way too early.
-I have a set way of doing things and I get agitated when people try to interfere with that. For example, if I am cooking dinner I cannot have someone helping me, unless that person is willing to follow my instructions to the letter. If they don’t do that I get angry.
-I have a lot of special interests that I know a lot about, I could talk about those forever.
-I’m a little disconnected from society. I don’t watch TV, I don’t listen to the radio and I’m not interested in celebrities. I have no clue what’s popular at the moment and I’m not interested in finding out. I do listen to music a lot, but it’s seldom mainstream.
I do keep up with the news, but I only read articles about things I think are important.
-I mostly keep to myself. I’m perfectly happy staying at home and generally only leave the house to go grocery shopping. I have friends, but I rarely feel like meeting them in person. I’m happy with maintaining a friendship via WhatsApp messages. If I meet up with people it’s generally at their insistence.
-I need time to mentally prepare to do things. I am rarely up for spontaneous adventures. If someone calls me and asks me to hang out right now it’s generally an automatic no, even if I have no plans whatsoever (which is most days). I do not want unexpected visitors and my friends know not to come by without asking me in advance.
-I feel very uncomfortable in social situations. The more people, the greater my discomfort. Having lunch with coworkers makes me miserable because I never know when it’s my turn to talk and a lot of the subjects they talk about are things I don’t know about (TV, pop music, celebrity gossip). I have a tendency to withdraw into myself in these situations.
-I have very keen senses, to the point that I am often being ridiculed for noticing things other people don’t. I’ve learned to mostly keep this to myself. I’ve also got a great eye for detail and for noticing patterns others don’t. This has helped me a lot in my work.
-I can be very direct, often interpreted as being blunt or rude. I’ve learned to guard my tongue, but when I’m caught off guard, or when I’m tired or emotional, I accidentally offend people.
-I get overstimulated from noise, crowds or lots of visual stimuli. When I’m feeling good my threshold for overstimulation is a lot higher than when I’m feeling bad.

I could go on and on, but I think this gives some idea of how I came to be diagnosed Feel free to ask if you have more questions though.

Hi

Yeah this post is really good, I have always know there has been a cause for my depression relating to interpersonal/social/communication difficulties.

I've got so used to masking that I don't even know I am doing it.

I detest vagueness, it seems to pi$$ people off that I cannot offer an explanation why I need them to be specific, they think, what? are you stupid or something.

I hate lateness too. don't know how to express to someone if they are late and I am displeased.

I also have a lot of special interests that I failed to mention in our three hours together.

Mainstream stuff is piffle to me too.

I isolate. I’m better communicating online than off, except real time conversations.

Yeah I hated it when I did drugs and saw more people and they would come round, usually to scrounge something.

Me too re social situations, the more people the worse I am.

Can you give me an example of pattern noticing, as I can't fid anything on the internet that I can resonate with. I like patterns in nature, but info online is too vague.

I accidentally offend people also.
I also get overstimulated from noise and crowds or lots of visual stimuli.

You said you could go on and on, I am interested to hear more.
Its the pattern recognition thing that confuses me.
I felt as if the assessor didnt want to diagnose me

 

[Gift2humanity]

No, not that well. I look at people when they are speaking, but rarely look directly in their eyes, and miss the microexpressions or subtle changes in expression. I generally know when a person is happy, sad, angry as these are more obvious and are easy to spot, but don't pick up well on moe subtle nuances.

And then, when I do sense a person's emotion, I don't always know what to do with it, or what is expected of me socially, if anything at all.

That last paragraph I really resonate with.
With my letter the conclusions where I had traits were bolded and the ones where I didnt were struck through like this, the struck through sentences didnt make sense, used words I couldn't decipher.