Being Pro-active

[Outdated]

Sticking up for your rights. Not letting people push you around. This is something my grandfather taught me when he talked to me about the responsibilities of being a man. If you let someone abuse you then you are actively encouraging them to abuse others as well. Sticking up for yourself is not just for your own benefit, it is part of your responsibility to the entire community.

It’s not just people that are bullies, large corporations often are too. For the past few years I’ve been doing a lot of my grocery shopping online, and while I can’t claim I was happy with the service I was content with it until recently. After getting them to resolve an issue I sent them some feedback about their “customer care" service, they have thanked me for my feedback but they still haven’t apologised for stuffing me around in the first place.

A copy of my feedback email:

Dear Faduma,

Thank you for looking in to this issue for me. I wish to point out several problems that need attention with your "customer care" policies.

1) When your delivery truck broke down I expected that someone would have contacted me to see if they could reschedule the delivery instead of just cancelling it.

2) The message I received telling me my order was cancelled gave me a phone number which sent me to an AI response service. This AI machine told me that in order to receive my order I would have to go back online and order it all again, but I couldn't do this because you had already taken my money.

3) When you cancel someone's order the refunding of their money should be automatic and instantaneous. I should not have had to contact you to go chasing my money, which has still not been credited back to my account almost 2 weeks later.

4) Your only visible contact solutions require people to use a phone which can be quite difficult for many of us, both for people that are older and for people with autism. I am a member of both of those groups. You obviously have an email service as well, why isn't this option provided on your website?

5) Your below message stating "We look forward to delivering your groceries again soon." is quite insulting. It implies that I'm supposed to be happy with the lack of service provided and will just continue to put up with this type of poor treatment.

I hope you manage to resolve these issues. Perhaps then I might consider once again using Coles Online.

Yours sincerely,

Andrew Walton.


On 17/3/24 1:43 pm, Coles Online Customer Care wrote:

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for your email regarding your recent Coles Online order 185437464. I have sent a refund request for $231.25 which is the total of your cancelled order. Our team will process the refund within 1 business day. Depending on your bank processing times, these funds should be visible in your account in the coming days.

Thank you for choosing to shop with Coles Online. We look forward to delivering your groceries again soon.

Yours Sincerely
Faduma

Customer Service Agent | Coles Online

 

[Thinx]

Did you mean to show your actual name here?

Yes totally agree, this is very poor service.

I like your grandfather's philosophy, and how useful that he taught you things like that, so clearly. That's very helpful for clarifying priorities and explaining why, for a young person with autism.

 

[MildredHubble]

Good for you for taking them on a bit! They have some nerve not refunding your money within a reasonable time frame. It seems to me that the moment your order was cancelled, the refund should have immediately followed.

Since I got over COVID, I've been very low on energy and I've been struggling to get some basic but necessary things done. Ordering online groceries sounds like exactly the sort of task I'd struggle with. If I was suddenly told I'd need to go through reordering everything again from scratch I wouldn't be able to do it. Once I've spent that energy completing a task I can't just summon it again. I find it's hard to explain this problem to other people, they seem to think I'm being awkward.

It seems to me that in the event they have to cancel your order, they should back it up so when you go back to their website you just click "reorder" and if any items are out of stock it lists them so you can select alternatives. I'm pretty sure something like this should be easy for them to implement, but I guess if they are so sure you will just do it then there's probably little incentive.

 

[Outdated]

Did you mean to show your actual name here?

I thought about that but it doesn't really matter much with me. I have no online presence that anyone can use and it seems to be an incredibly popular name as well. Anonymity in numbers.

I like your grandfather's philosophy, and how useful that he taught you things like that, so clearly. That's very helpful for clarifying priorities and explaining why, for a young person with autism.

As far as I know I was the only one of his grandchildren that he spent a lot of time with, but he was also quite old by the time I was born and I was only 11 when he died. I think he knew he was on his way out and wanted to cram as much as he could in to me before his time was up. He was always really quiet and calm and I liked listening to him.

 

[Outdated]

Good for you for taking them on a bit! They have some nerve not refunding your money within a reasonable time frame. It seems to me that the moment your order was cancelled, the refund should have immediately followed.

That was exactly what I said. I also said it to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission in case it happens a lot. How many people would think to check that their money has indeed been refunded?

 

[Judge]

I'm just wondering if this may be one of those outfits accustomed to accruing interest on monies knowing that they must ultimately return them, but deliberately slowing the process.

Particularly in smaller operations where restocking and spoilage factors may influence such questionable practices.

 

[Outdated]

I'm just wondering if this may be one of those outfits accustomed to accruing interest on monies knowing that they must ultimately return them, but deliberately slowing the process.

I find it difficult to believe that they didn't have a system in place to automatically refund money if an order gets cancelled. Even the dodgiest of businesses have this.

Particularly in smaller operations where restocking and spoilage factors may influence such questionable practices.

Coles is Australia's largest supermarket chain and the Coles Myer Corporation is truly massive. It's only by accident that I noticed the money hadn't been refunded, I was checking my account for a different reason. And that was why I lodged a report with the ACCC, these days people just expect refunds to happen automatically and without question.

 

[Judge]

I find it difficult to believe that they didn't have a system in place to automatically refund money if an order gets cancelled. Even the dodgiest of businesses have this.

If they are in the business of making interest off of every potential customer, they may very well have that ability, but elect not to share either with consumers.

Coles is Australia's largest supermarket chain and the Coles Myer Corporation is truly massive. It's only by accident that I noticed the money hadn't been refunded, I was checking my account for a different reason. And that was why I lodged a report with the ACCC, these days people just expect refunds to happen automatically and without question.

You brought up an interesting question. How many customers question the chronology of bills and returns? And what if a vendor deliberately chooses to research and exploit such a thing, especially if they conclude so much time going by? (I'm also one of those persons who watches bills due and monies owed "like a hawk".)

Having worked inside a major corporate name most of you have heard of, you wouldn't believe the callous nature they had for their customers as opposed to their shareholders. On a level that would make most rational thinking persons shake their heads in disbelief.

 

[Outdated]

You brought up an interesting question. How many customers question the chronology of bills and returns? And what if a vendor deliberately chooses to research and exploit such a thing, especially if they conclude so much time going by?

That was exactly what I was wondering. This is a company that has literally millions of customers per day, ripping off just 5% of them would equal a considerable sum of money. And doing it in such a way that they can say it was just an oversight. There's already a government enquiry into the bad practices of our larger supermarket chains, at the moment the cost of living for the average Aussie has risen dramatically and at the same time these companies are recording record profits.

I'm used to making a lot of judgement calls about people by the language that they use. This company hasn't apologised for the oversight, or even mentioned that it was an oversight. The normal language to use in these instances goes along the lines of "We're terribly sorry and we'll take steps to make sure that this doesn't happen again.". Instead the language they use almost makes it sound like it's my own fault and I should just accept it.

 

[1ForAll]

Nice thread. I would like to take things a step further though as I think it is often instinct and at least slightly easier to stick up for oneself than to stick up directly for others. So, if you know of any maltreatment, harms or violations occuring not only to friends or family but to another, regardless if acquaintances or strangers, or if it is against some group, do not assume that the other/others are aware of that, are capable of responding appropriately to that, or do not desire intervention.

I mean, of course we cannot help everyone, and many need to take responsibility to help themselves, and yes, many may not want our assistance, so we may have to have more evidence there or do more inquiries first, or ask the other if they need support, direction or for us to help right some wrong, and we even may often just choose to bite our tongues, grin and bear something hoping others will jump in first, or to pick and choose our involvements or battles, but consider getting ourselves involved for issues that really matter to us.

The problem I have is too many people in this society seem either self absorbed in their own lives, pain and issues to care, have little or no ability to react back in some non-emotional way that will be more well received, or they will not ever admit to things they could do better, or they look the other way. I wish more people could stop thinking of themselves all the time, and yes like the op mentioned too, to be proactive for the greater cause. Enabling others to hide or drown out the truth and injustices rarely helps anyone or solves anything, but instead causes more problems than people realize, which we all in the end will pay for. To stop bigger wrongs, those people need to be held accountable for such, and the enablers or ones who could do more need to at least try harder to make a difference there, as they are part of the problem, regardless if it is a mom or dad too.

I do not care if you are a government agency, corporation, large chain department store, smaller shop, some lay person, professional, person with condition, a male or a female, a minority member, I will usually get involved for moderate to bigger issues, if not sooner, then later if I see a concerning pattern. I always will first try to word things in a fair and professional way where the message is heard more clearly, without causing too much conflict. This does not guarantee the other will want resolution or to react back in the way I desire, but more often than not I get some relief there. I am not advocating fighting formally for every issue, as big mistakes and one time occurrences happen, and as people can have a bad day, but for harmful patterns and extreme unfairness, I do get involved too. I do not get stress over that; I would get more stress doing nothing.

 

[Judge]

That was exactly what I was wondering. This is a company that has literally millions of customers per day, ripping off just 5% of them would equal a considerable sum of money. And doing it in such a way that they can say it was just an oversight. There's already a government enquiry into the bad practices of our larger supermarket chains, at the moment the cost of living for the average Aussie has risen dramatically and at the same time these companies are recording record profits.

I'm used to making a lot of judgement calls about people by the language that they use. This company hasn't apologised for the oversight, or even mentioned that it was an oversight. The normal language to use in these instances goes along the lines of "We're terribly sorry and we'll take steps to make sure that this doesn't happen again.". Instead the language they use almost makes it sound like it's my own fault and I should just accept it.

The Bottom Line

"It might be hard to believe that some of these ethically dubious business practices are alive and thriving, while also legal and potentially legitimate in the eyes of lawmakers. However, being aware of these unscrupulous methods can help you avoid them as best you can. The examples above are just a few instances where the law may not necessarily provide the most appropriate protections, despite the best intentions of regulators."

14 Legal Business Practices of Dubious Ethics

Being aware of these unscrupulous methods can help you avoid them as best you can.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Outdated]

I will usually get involved for moderate to bigger issues, if not sooner, then later if I see a concerning pattern.

This is very much how the ACCC operates, it's very rare for them to get involved in individual cases but when they get many reports outlining systemic wrong then they're one of our few government bodies with real teeth.

Personally, I've always found it easier to stick up for others than for myself. My bank balance isn't exactly poor but I used my demographic to outline the problems that may affect a lot of other people. I'm old, I have a disability and I'm just a poor pensioner with a limited income. The truth is that I'm financially better off than a lot of people in this country, but I don't need to tell them that.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

The Bottom Line

"It might be hard to believe that some of these ethically dubious business practices are alive and thriving, while also legal and potentially legitimate in the eyes of lawmakers. However, being aware of these unscrupulous methods can help you avoid them as best you can. The examples above are just a few instances where the law may not necessarily provide the most appropriate protections, despite the best intentions of regulators."

14 Legal Business Practices of Dubious Ethics

Being aware of these unscrupulous methods can help you avoid them as best you can.

www.investopedia.com

Most of the examples in that article are relative to people who have enough money to invest.

The Dodd Frank law was partially repealed in 2018. Protections in our country are being eroded by some popular politicians.

Nice thread. I would like to take things a step further though as I think it is often instinct and at least slightly easier to stick up for oneself than to stick up directly for others. So, if you know of any maltreatment, harms or violations occuring not only to friends or family but to another, regardless if acquaintances or strangers, or if it is against some group, do not assume that the other/others are aware of that, are capable of responding appropriately to that, or do not desire intervention.

I have a much easier time advocating for others than for myself. I can get angry and get on the phone immediately to try to fix something for someone else. But to do it for myself takes much more effort.

 

[Judge]

I think the first time as an adult that I began to question various fundamentals and ethics in business is when I told my boss that I made a purchase of the corporation's product (entertainment software) and that I sought an official rebate advertised with it.

I recall how she burst out laughing, citing that it was highly unlikely I'd ever see such money returned to me. And this was someone that many people in the corporate world knew and respected relative to the marketing and public relations of computer games.

It really bothered me. Specifically the contempt she projected towards the corporation's own customers. And how issuing gaming software "patches" were always issued on a schedule conducive to shareholders rather than customers who bought the product in good faith.

BTW, I got my rebate. Being so detailed oriented, while they made if difficult to do, I was able to satisfy their convoluted requirements and hoops to jump through just to get my rebate. But it was emphasized that it was deliberately designed that way much like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey's face.

Hearing such sentiments from the inside....it was chilling. A major reason why I lost interest in computer gaming.

 

[Judge]

Most of the examples in that article are relative to people who have enough money to invest.

The Dodd Frank law was partially repealed in 2018. Protections in our country are being eroded by some popular politicians.


I have a much easier time advocating for others than for myself. I can get angry and get on the phone immediately to try to fix something for someone else. But to do it for myself takes much more effort.

Then consider the root causes of the Great Recession of 2008 relative to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

Lenders who went wild. More manifestations of greed of a few that led to economic catastrophe for so many.

 

[Outdated]

Protections in our country are being eroded by some popular politicians.

We were headed down that same path for a long while but things have been reversing in the last decade or so. But we have a very different political climate here compared to the US.

Specifically the contempt she projected towards the corporation's own customers.

This was specifically one of the things that upset me about the responses I received from Coles, the contempt shines out above everything else. I think the fact that I noticed that they hadn't refunded my money upset them. They are not in any way apologetic or remorseful, instead it seems like they're upset that someone noticed.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Then consider the root causes of the Great Recession of 2008 relative to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

Lenders who went wild. More manifestations of greed of a few that led to economic catastrophe for so many.

You are right of course. Glass-Steagall was repealed during a time I was not paying attention to politics and therefore it does not occupy a place of priority in my mind.

I also agree with your points about commercial companies planning to not fullfil promises to customers.

 

[Judge]

This was specifically one of the things that upset me about the responses I received from Coles, the contempt shines out above everything else. I think the fact that I noticed that they hadn't refunded my money upset them. They are not in any way apologetic or remorseful, instead it seems like they're upset that someone noticed.

The world we live in. Reminding me of the sentiments of a fictional character so many know.

"It's not personal. It's strictly business." -Michael Corleone, "The Godfather"

We all are accustomed to being told as such, but does that mean we should accept t?

 

[Judge]

You are right of course. Glass-Steagall was repealed during a time I was not paying attention to politics and therefore it does not occupy a place of priority in my mind.

No one was paying attention back then. Especially given the bipartisan nature of that legislation that was repealed.

 

[Outdated]

I just checked my bank account again and they still haven't refunded my money. I also noticed an anomaly in the dates. I placed my order on the 7th, delivery was due but never arrived on the 8th. Money wasn't extracted from my account until the 11th. It's already the 21st here now.