Autism recovery story

[Aspychata]

Passive aggressive troll? Lol

 

[onlything]

Passive aggressive troll? Lol

I would wait for OP's answer before labelling them as that lol. So weird though, can't wrap my head around potential intention of this thread. Social experiment? I'm interested in the outcome.

 

[grommet]

... Maybe if you portrayed it as 'benefits of CBT therapy in autism' instead of a 'recovery', a word many of us despise, it wouldn't have turned out this way.

I agree. Thank you for explaining so well.

 

[tree]

Bruno Bettelheim, a psychoanalyst who studied autistic children, wrote in his book "The Empty Fortress" in 1967 that children with classic autism displayed symptoms consistent with parental rejection and claimed he helped them recover from autism through purely psychological intervention. He blamed autism on really bad mothers (he called them "devouring witches" in his book) and is the reason the Refrigerator Mother theory became popular. His claims were rejected after his theory fell out of favor.

I wrote a story explaining how a child described in his book could have recovered from classic autism despite him being wrong about bad mothers being the initial cause. Keep in mind the DSM-I was used at the time so a child who ended up with high functioning autism wouldn't have been considered autistic.

Here's my story:

Joey was born with autistic traits inherited from his parents. Like many adults who misinterpret those with autistic traits as being cold and indifferent, Joey made the same mistake when he was a baby. He felt his parents had rejected him which also made him think there must be something wrong with him. Feeling rejected because he was different and believing there was nothing he could do about it, he became depressed, lost interest in people, and preferred to be alone. To avoid feeling lonely, he used his imagination to create a world of his own inside his mind which led to him being diagnosed with classic autism due to his delayed speech and odd behavior.

His negative interactions with people reinforced his belief that he was defective. Since feeling rejected when he was a baby was a traumatic experience and his mind associated being different with being rejected, he suffered fear and emotional distress similar to those with PTSD which led him to tell people he was controlled by machines in the hope they would judge the machines instead of him if he said or did something abnormal.

Joey's black and white thinking resulted in him putting most people in one category (normal people) and himself and other odd people in another category. Comparing the two groups, he felt inferior, sad that he wasn’t like everyone else, ashamed since he often blamed himself for his problems, angry that others didn’t accept him, fearful since he didn't understand the other group, and hopeless since he felt he was born that way and couldn’t change. Those emotions created internal stress which caused his brain to work differently which made it impossible to understand other people and act normally.

Fortunately, Joey learned about CBT and used it to correct his distorted beliefs which greatly reduced the negative emotions he experienced. After the stress caused by his beliefs and emotions went away, he was able to think more clearly and understood people better. After a year of making up for the positive social interaction he lacked, he no longer had any trouble fitting in and making friends. Although he still had autistic traits, he no longer met the criteria for autism and his diagnosis was removed. He wish he could be reborn by his mother knowing he wasn't rejected because then he never would have been autistic.

So, have you turned this piece of speculative fiction in as part of
the requirements for completing a creative writing class?

 

[Matthias]

Excuse me now because l need to go across the street to console the poor mother raising her son by herself who needs 24 hour care because he falls at the bottom of the spectrum meaning - low functioning. I will read your fairy tale to her so that she can rejoice and send her 17 year-old son out to apply for jobs. And she can cancel the p/t help that she receives as aid because of income requirements. Better yet, since you are all cured- why don't you find employment for her son who doesn't speak, is disruptive, and has major cognitive challenges?

After all, he just needs a little therapy. ☺

I'm glad you are going read the story to her. I'd appreciate it if you could ask her to read it to her son.

 

[Aspychata]

Welcome to the thread @tree.

Are you a fan of CBT recovered no longer autistic club?

 

[onlything]

I'm glad you are going read the story to her. I'd appreciate it if you could ask her to read it to her son.

A question. Are you being truly so oblivious or are you purposefully mocking us?

 

[Aspychata]

A question. Are you being truly so oblivious or are you purposefully mocking us?

Or are you mocking with no real purpose? True definition of TRL.

 

[Matthias]

I believe that CBT can help with the anxiety, depression or PTSD that often comes with autism, but not the autism itself. There are differences in the brain in the way people with autism process information, cognitive dfferences that can't be helped by CBT, but as many symptoms of ASD are exacerbated by anxiety, depression and PTSD, then a reduction of these will also help the autistic person cope much better with his or her autism - or specifically those traits of autism that are fed by anxiety.

One of the problems that I have, and others have also reported too, is an inability to process conversation, which in turn affects my ability to socialise or fit in a work environment. I'm just that bit slower to process speech, and don't automatically process and understand social information. Conversation is non-verbal as much as verbal, emotional signals or ememes being exchanged alongside the verbal information, and I often fail to send and receive this information. This means that in any conversation, I feel detached, disconnected, like watching TV rather than actually being a participant in the conversation. This is a cognitive difference, perhaps a part of my brain didn't fully mature or didn't connect up the way it should, who knows. I tried CBT for a while, and it did help me by teaching me to live more in the here and now and let go of some anxiety through mindfulness, but nothing will alleviate this particular issue.

Slow processing also occurs in non-autistic people with autistic traits who are part of the broader autism phenotype (BAP) which is similar to ASD but milder. If someone born with the BAP felt rejected when they were a baby, the depression and anxiety that resulted would, as you say, exacerbate their autistic symptoms. That could result in them qualifying for an ASD diagnosis. If they overcame their depression and anxiety, their level of symptoms could be reduced to the point where they no longer qualified for as ASD diagnosis. That would be considered recovering from autism. If that wasn't the case, because they still had autistic traits, then you'd have to redefine autism to include everyone that's part of the BAP.

 

[Ken S.]

Sounds more like dementia than autism.

 

[grommet]

If someone born with the BAP felt rejected when they were a baby, the depression and anxiety that resulted would, as you say, exacerbate their autistic symptoms..

Nope.

 

[Fino]

I just added 2 paragraphs to my OP to explain the purpose of the story since it appears everyone misunderstood what I was trying to say. I didn't include those details at first because I was worried the post would be too long that no one would read it.

The fact that the story is made-up doesn't make it much less depressing. But why tell a made-up story? Why not tell your story?

 

[grommet]

I would wait for OP's answer before labelling them as that lol. So weird though, can't wrap my head around potential intention of this thread. Social experiment? I'm interested in the outcome.

It does feel a little like that. Poke the group and see what happens.

I do not think that is what it is though. There is a tone that seems familiar. The "I figured something out, it's genius, these people need to know."

I believe the way to win an argument with an aspie is to have a better argument. Aspies will immediately stop when this happens. I think converse is true as well, that if an argument is made that can be refuted, it will never be acceded to. Our minds cannot rest knowing something isn't true.

I see too many declarative statements being made by the OP that can be postively refuted. If they were more open-ended, hypothesis, an idea being considered, that would be different, but it's absolutes.

 

[MischievousMochi]

Goodness I'm late on this bandwagon. There was a lot to read and I'm not sure I'm reading between the lines on what's going on. So a belated hi @FormerlyAutistic and welcome!

I don't want to make any assumptions on what's been going on, but some clarification would be helpful:

• When did you come to the discover of meeting the criteria for autism? What other tests did you use besides the DSM-V?
• What other common comorbidities do you have or had as a kid that also coincide with autism?
• What's your score for the nerodiverse (aspie) test before?
  
• What is your current score for the AQ (Autism Spectrum Quotient) test?
• Have you watched Tony Attwood's or Temple Grandin's videos on youtube?
  
• Do you stim? Do you have a photographic memory or auditory learning style? What are your special interests/obsessive hobbies? Do you see patterns in numbers? Or a vivid/rich imagination?
  

As for myself with CBT, I've found it very helpful. I read through The Happiness Trap and went along with a copy of an online matching workbook. I journaled after each lesson to make sure each point was understood and well digested. It was immensely helpful in processing my anxiety and depression. I better understood the smaller parts of physically experiencing these emotions/sensations along with what would trigger it (or rather what string of things lead to a downward spiral ending of, for example, having a meltdown and crying in front of a coworker.) It hasn't cured me of my anxiety or depression, but given me a different perspective on what it is, the root, and preventative measures to counteract/lessen it.

It's fun to see everyone so full of vim and vigor here. Carry on!

 

[Matthias]

It does feel a little like that. Poke the group and see what happens.

I do not think that is what it is though. There is a tone that seems familiar. The "I figured something out, it's genius, these people need to know."

I believe the way to win an argument with an aspie is to have a better argument. Aspies will immediately stop when this happens. I think converse is true as well, that if an argument is made that can be refuted, it will never be acceded to. Our minds cannot rest knowing something isn't true.

I see too many declarative statements being made by the OP that can be postively refuted. If they were more open-ended, hypothesis, an idea being considered, that would be different, but it's absolutes.

Recovery from autism has been documented in scholarly articles and scientific studies
Rapid and spontaneous recovery in autistic disorder
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-it-possible-to-recover-from-autism/

 

[Matthias]

Goodness I'm late on this bandwagon. There was a lot to read and I'm not sure I'm reading between the lines on what's going on. So a belated hi @FormerlyAutistic and welcome!

I don't want to make any assumptions on what's been going on, but some clarification would be helpful:

• When did you come to the discover of meeting the criteria for autism? What other tests did you use besides the DSM-V?
• What other common comorbidities do you have or had as a kid that also coincide with autism?
• What's your score for the nerodiverse (aspie) test before?
  
• What is your current score for the AQ (Autism Spectrum Quotient) test?
• Have you watched Tony Attwood's or Temple Grandin's videos on youtube?
  
• Do you stim? Do you have a photographic memory or auditory learning style? What are your special interests/obsessive hobbies? Do you see patterns in numbers? Or a vivid/rich imagination?

The AQ and a few other tests said I was autistic and now they say I'm not. In my case it was very clear and obvious but I'm not interested in convincing anyone since I don't care if anyone believes me.

As for myself with CBT, I've found it very helpful. I read through The Happiness Trap and went along with a copy of an online matching workbook. I journaled after each lesson to make sure each point was understood and well digested. It was immensely helpful in processing my anxiety and depression. I better understood the smaller parts of physically experiencing these emotions/sensations along with what would trigger it (or rather what string of things lead to a downward spiral ending of, for example, having a meltdown and crying in front of a coworker.) It hasn't cured me of my anxiety or depression, but given me a different perspective on what it is, the root, and preventative measures to counteract/lessen it.

It's fun to see everyone so full of vim and vigor here. Carry on!

I used CBT a few years ago for anxiety. It helped with anxiety but I don't think it made me any less autistic. More recently, I watched a serious of 8 short YouTube videos titled "ASD CBT Video for Children", thought about what beliefs I've had for a long time, and changed those beliefs. Once I did that, my stress went away and I could suddenly understand people.

The key is to change your core beliefs about yourself and other people which can be done in one day. A big one was the belief that I was different. I saw myself as autistic and most other people as normal/neurotypical which is black and white thinking. Afterwards, I saw myself as a normal person with problems like everyone else. Everyone is normal. We're all human. We all want to be loved and accepted. None of our problems define who we are as a person.

I also found out that most of the problems I had with other people were due to misunderstandings. I knew people misunderstand me often but I wasn't aware until I used CBT the second time that I was misunderstanding other people just as often.

 

[Mush]

That opening post is the strangest thing I’ve ever read.

I have been fortunate enough to have grown up in what is possibly the most loving home on earth. As a middle aged man my sisters are my best friends. I regularly spend hours on the phone with my parents talking about all sorts and when we are all together we have a fabulously good time.

My childhood in the country was probably the best possible childhood someone with ASD could possibly have.

I wasn’t diagnosed with ASD until I was 44. I had no idea there was anything wrong me, I just figured the world was full of strange people.

Rejection was unknown to me until probably middle high school. Until then I had always been well accepted into my school, church and other social situations.

Sure everyone thought I was a bit weird, but growing up in a small community people tend to just accept you, weirdness and all.

That anyone believes you can be cured of autism is laughable at best. Upon being formally diagnosed my whole life has changed. I finally understand myself and why so much of my life was/is difficult.

Thankfully I have a wonderful support group that also finally understands the issues I have had to stumble through my whole life.

 

[MischievousMochi]

Recovery from autism has been documented in scholarly articles and scientific studies
Rapid and spontaneous recovery in autistic disorder
Is It Possible to Recover from Autism?

The first article has issues with it's sources. The first source talks about Kanner Syndrome which is infantile symdrome and that behavior and social training made the children adept in functioning in neutro-typical society. They did not cure the neutrological issue, they only alleviated the symptoms.
The second source is the same. Except the diagnosis of the children is from the 80's and they both went through similar behavior therapy with the same result of lessening their symptoms.
They claim that autism.com has a video of a child being cured, but failed to review the reports.
The article mentions the child's irregularities only after the sentence "[he] was vaccinated." They also described him as being "annoyed, shouting, and crying." However, he started showing less "autistic" signs after several days in the hospital. This could be signs of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) caused by food allergies. They did not state what treatment the child received while under the doctors care, nor his past or current diet while in their care. They drew their own conclusions without following up alternative causes.

The second article is not a peer reviewed journal. It is a fluff piece written by a child therapist. If you read the "2008 literature review reported that 3 to 25 percent of affected people eventually recover" it states "In order to be defined as “recovered”, a child must first have a convincing history of ASD. Some of his/her development will have been delayed in onset, slow to progress, and/or abnormal in quality. To be considered “recovered”, the child must now be learning and applying a core set of skills at a level and with a quality that reaches the trajectory of typical development in most or all areas." However, the children that show "relatively high intelligence, receptive language, verbal and motor imitation, and motor development, but not overall symptom severity" during therapy can easily mask well enough to score lower to no longer meet the criteria for ASD. Therefore, they are treating the symptoms and not the root.

One of my special interests are dissecting research papers.

I understand where you're coming from in wanting to show that it is curable. However, articles like these are very misleading and want to state a case for a cure all in the hopes of getting more funding for themselves or money for future articles. The only thing these articles show is that through early diagnosis in children and an intervention of speech and behavior therapy they can show the socially appropriate behavior to lessen their criteria.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

... l do have crumpets and tea date with the queen of England ...

Better nutrition than chocolate. Hang onto that lady!

 

[MischievousMochi]

The AQ and a few other tests said I was autistic and now they say I'm not. In my case it was very clear and obvious but I'm not interested in convincing anyone since I don't care if anyone believes me.

Sorry, I may need more clarification on this.
Have you taken tests like these in the past before coming to the forums. Or did you take them, saw your results, and took them again?

It wasn't my intention to prove whether you do or don't have autism, but as a means for you to understand some examples of behavioral signs in autism through the questions provided in them.

The key is to change your core beliefs about yourself and other people which can be done in one day. A big one was the belief that I was different. I saw myself as autistic and most other people as normal/neurotypical which is black and white thinking. Afterwards, I saw myself as a normal person with problems like everyone else. Everyone is normal. We're all human. We all want to be loved and accepted. None of our problems define who we are as a person.

I also found out that most of the problems I had with other people were due to misunderstandings. I knew people misunderstand me often but I wasn't aware until I used CBT the second time that I was misunderstanding other people just as often.

I understand the concepts about the perception change within Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. And especially feeling different among peers. In high school I had no female friends, got anxious when trying to interact those of my gender, and mainly hung out with the guys since their words and actions didn't have double meaning to them. But even talking with them ended in misunderstandings.
I've gotten better with my communication with the help of a lot of how to videos and self-help books. It's taken a lot of practice and trial and error. With all the reading I've done, I've made self-improvement a second job.

It's good to see that you came to a view yourself as having problems just as everyone else. But the matter of the fact is that not everyone is normal. If you believe you have autism or a professional suggested it to you it would be counter-intuitive to ignore this. There other health issues that can go unresolved. Take care of yourself and do what you think is best.