You like me anyway.
Just saved myself some money.
Although have a collection of stolen hotel pens....
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ASD/NT relationships - NTs need for validation
- Thread starter sisselcakes
- Start date
You like me anyway.
Just saved myself some money.
Although have a collection of stolen hotel pens....
Gracey
Well-Known Member
tut, tut, tut.
Can't receive stolen goods sorry.
Not really stolen, hotels don't mind.
Gracey
Well-Known Member
We have an understanding.
My ex-boyfriend needed a lot of validation. He was very insecure and my lack of spontaneous reassurance led to him constantly asking for attention and looking for validation from me. He got very clingy in the process. It started out pretty tame with him just asking me to be more affectionate and more complimenting but he became a bit obsessive about it and got some controlling tendencies.
This annoyed me to no end, which caused a lot of strain on our relationship. It led to me acting out, and our relationship became pretty toxic in the end. He was hanging on to me for dear life and I broke up with him four times before he got the message and he still tried to break into my house to get me to take him back.
With my current boyfriend I’ve tried to be more attentive, I compliment him a lot and I think I tell him I love him at least once a day. It’s become sort of a habit. Validation-wise, I feel like this relationship is more balanced.
This annoyed me to no end, which caused a lot of strain on our relationship. It led to me acting out, and our relationship became pretty toxic in the end. He was hanging on to me for dear life and I broke up with him four times before he got the message and he still tried to break into my house to get me to take him back.
With my current boyfriend I’ve tried to be more attentive, I compliment him a lot and I think I tell him I love him at least once a day. It’s become sort of a habit. Validation-wise, I feel like this relationship is more balanced.
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I have also not read this book, but I believe I grasp the concepts in it. I was thinking about it earlier, reading an Austen novel, that maybe it's not so much about attraction as we've been led to believe, but about being made to feel loved.
He feels loved when you accept him, and I suppose make him feel understood. How do you go about that? Not to ruin your dance by analysis, just maybe worth some reflection. Conversely, he has to do something to make you feel loved, understood, or otherwise connected, even if it's not compliments.
My experience/an autobiographical note: Compliments are tricky for me, both to give and receive. They are designed to make you feel a certain way, and the way I am built, not necesserily my autism, makes that feel manipulative. If you change it to "state your opinion"… well, that can backfire as well. My family seem to have found a way around it by asking me yes/no questions, "does this blouse look horrible on me" etc.
Hope it helps.
Words are petty, little and empty. Passive. Why do people insist on talking all the time? If I do something for a loved one, I give them my time, my effort - my love. If I say they are pretty (which obviously they are, why is there a need to repeat the same thing over and over?), it's obviously true but it's empty as well. Doing something is a better way to show you care, no?
Maybe it's my upbringing speaking here... But people always talk but most of the time it's just noise. They don't mean things they say or they mean them very little.
I still say these things, you're pretty, you're amazing, even if it's obvious because my people like it and I like making them happy. Although I'd rather prepare them a nice dinner. It feels more worthwhile and it took some time before I broke through this 'blockade' for seemingly meaningless speak. I still have to remind myself that things can be obvious to me but may be less so for others - and some need to be told a few times to believe it. They also know that words can be empty.
And others are just always sad, so if saying it at times makes it more bearable, then I will say it many times. Still, there are times I forget about everything else but one thing. I can't help it.
Maybe it's my upbringing speaking here... But people always talk but most of the time it's just noise. They don't mean things they say or they mean them very little.
I still say these things, you're pretty, you're amazing, even if it's obvious because my people like it and I like making them happy. Although I'd rather prepare them a nice dinner. It feels more worthwhile and it took some time before I broke through this 'blockade' for seemingly meaningless speak. I still have to remind myself that things can be obvious to me but may be less so for others - and some need to be told a few times to believe it. They also know that words can be empty.
And others are just always sad, so if saying it at times makes it more bearable, then I will say it many times. Still, there are times I forget about everything else but one thing. I can't help it.
It sounds kind of like he's digging his heels in about saying whatever your preferred compliment is, but you also sound like you got off track with expecting this compliment. Almost like you had a boyfriend earlier in life who complimented you that way and so you expect it from your recent boyfriend. But it also sounds like you might like/love each other or you're attracted, but you might be toxic together, especially anger/aggressive behavior. That's never ok IMO.
As for compliments, I often don't even think of them, and if it's more like a fake compliment, I never do those. Although I've mostly heard those at work as a way of starting a conversation with someone, not really between a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. I guess if it was something other than complimenting on pretty, maybe that would seem more normal. Do you do a task at home and he compliments you on it, kind of like you would probably compliment him on a meal? Although if someone didn't mention that a meal was meant as a loving gesture I probably wouldn't get that either...they might just like to cook, or even as a way of getting away from talking, etc for a while.
I also thought of the concept of love languages, though I've never read the book, or at least what kind of coded language are each of you really talking in? I'm more matter of fact but some people seem to be talking in another language/level, so maybe that's the problem. If you can explain that to some degree maybe you can at least be friends. If not, I wouldn't force it.
As for compliments, I often don't even think of them, and if it's more like a fake compliment, I never do those. Although I've mostly heard those at work as a way of starting a conversation with someone, not really between a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. I guess if it was something other than complimenting on pretty, maybe that would seem more normal. Do you do a task at home and he compliments you on it, kind of like you would probably compliment him on a meal? Although if someone didn't mention that a meal was meant as a loving gesture I probably wouldn't get that either...they might just like to cook, or even as a way of getting away from talking, etc for a while.
I also thought of the concept of love languages, though I've never read the book, or at least what kind of coded language are each of you really talking in? I'm more matter of fact but some people seem to be talking in another language/level, so maybe that's the problem. If you can explain that to some degree maybe you can at least be friends. If not, I wouldn't force it.
Bronzelincolns
Well-Known Member
so which one of you is the NT?
I'm not sure if its a need for validation per se, I think it's just a case of misperception, of misinterpreting the communication style? As an NT I would read signs as follows:
During the "Honey moon" phase:
Lots of texting = Completely normal
Texting dying down = Again, completely normal
Normalisation phase:
Having to make all the plans to meet up = A sign of disinterest
Receiving vague or one word answers to questions = Potentially rude, again a sign of disinterest
This kind of communication drives most people round the bend, sends them into a spiral of self-doubt, i.e. into a place where they feel they need validation, by saying things like:
"You don't care about me" and all the variations of this statement (you don't love me etc etc.) which in NT speak means show me you care for me somehow - a hug, a kind word, or best of all "of course I do, don't be silly"
Seems simple, though I know its not.
During the "Honey moon" phase:
Lots of texting = Completely normal
Texting dying down = Again, completely normal
Normalisation phase:
Having to make all the plans to meet up = A sign of disinterest
Receiving vague or one word answers to questions = Potentially rude, again a sign of disinterest
This kind of communication drives most people round the bend, sends them into a spiral of self-doubt, i.e. into a place where they feel they need validation, by saying things like:
"You don't care about me" and all the variations of this statement (you don't love me etc etc.) which in NT speak means show me you care for me somehow - a hug, a kind word, or best of all "of course I do, don't be silly"
Seems simple, though I know its not.
hatfullofrain
Well-Known Member
But it does have meaning. She's not asking him to lie.
He surely must on occasion look at her and think, "she looks pretty" or "she did that thing well" or "I love you"
Why not articulate that?
It doesn't have meaning in the context of my example.
A forced act or statement is not a genuine one.
Is my point.
Whenever you want me too?
Which is the context.
Ie. I need you to make me feel... X,y.. etc
Now.
Then there can be anger as the expectation is not met.
Ie.
Pretend you have an opinion about my dress. Right now.
I was trying to show an example of a different way of thinking about it.
If you don't naturally use 'social communication'
(Using feelings to constantly validate to make each other feel better is part of that)
Then expectations can cause problems from both sides.
One side expects ( often unconsciously) the other is oblivious.
Much fun ensues
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hatfullofrain
Well-Known Member
I think you're being unreasonable.
She's not demanding a compliment on her dress right now. You're missing the point of what the OP is asking. And you're not the only one on this thread.
Just a compliment whenever you naturally think something nice. Or do you never think anything nice about anyone at all, ever?
It's not a selfish demand. Don't you ever feel good when someone says something nice to you?
This is why NTs say we lack empathy. It's the blatant refusal to even consider their feelings on a tiny simple thing like saying something nice when it crosses your mind.
It's not a demand to notice a new haircut.
It's asking you to say, "I think you look pretty today". When I'm attracted to someone I look at them and think nice things about them. It's nice for them if I tell them these things.
Is it really because of autism, or because of growing up in a house where people didn't freely give praise and compliments? I can imagine someone becoming entrenched in a, "Well no one gives me praise and I get along fine attitude.
Doesn't make it a pointless thing to do though. It could be nice if you tried it.
She's not demanding a compliment on her dress right now. You're missing the point of what the OP is asking. And you're not the only one on this thread.
Just a compliment whenever you naturally think something nice. Or do you never think anything nice about anyone at all, ever?
It's not a selfish demand. Don't you ever feel good when someone says something nice to you?
This is why NTs say we lack empathy. It's the blatant refusal to even consider their feelings on a tiny simple thing like saying something nice when it crosses your mind.
It's not a demand to notice a new haircut.
It's asking you to say, "I think you look pretty today". When I'm attracted to someone I look at them and think nice things about them. It's nice for them if I tell them these things.
Is it really because of autism, or because of growing up in a house where people didn't freely give praise and compliments? I can imagine someone becoming entrenched in a, "Well no one gives me praise and I get along fine attitude.
Doesn't make it a pointless thing to do though. It could be nice if you tried it.
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And I think you're missing the point.
You're talking about something else ,outside the realm of my example.
hatfullofrain
Well-Known Member
No I understand what you're saying. Some women will get upset if you don't notice that they are wearing a new dress. Which I've always thought is silly and self defeating because men just don't tend to notice little things like that. I think they expect too much in that scenario. It's not an NT/AS thing, it's a man/woman thing.
But if she says, " do you like my new dress?" It's not meaningless to say yes. You're validating your partner and making her feel good. It makes happy chemicals go round her brain and it bonds her to you. And in turn makes her feel like doing nice things for you. It makes relationships more pleasant for both involved.
But I don't think that's what the OP was talking about. Not forced, asked for compliments.
If you try and grease the wheels a bit with saying genuine compliments when you do genuinely see her doing something good or you think she looks nice. There's no reason to keep it to yourself. Tell her! Then she wont feel so upset if you don't notice that new dress, because you do show that you think good things about her at other times.
Someone mentioned how things cool off as relationships mellow into a comfortable state.
People leave relationships and go after the next exciting crush all the time. Your partner just wants validation that you are still into them in a romantic way and aren't thinking of bouncing off after the next new thing.
Compliments are not pointless, they help relationships to stay strong.
But if she says, " do you like my new dress?" It's not meaningless to say yes. You're validating your partner and making her feel good. It makes happy chemicals go round her brain and it bonds her to you. And in turn makes her feel like doing nice things for you. It makes relationships more pleasant for both involved.
But I don't think that's what the OP was talking about. Not forced, asked for compliments.
If you try and grease the wheels a bit with saying genuine compliments when you do genuinely see her doing something good or you think she looks nice. There's no reason to keep it to yourself. Tell her! Then she wont feel so upset if you don't notice that new dress, because you do show that you think good things about her at other times.
Someone mentioned how things cool off as relationships mellow into a comfortable state.
People leave relationships and go after the next exciting crush all the time. Your partner just wants validation that you are still into them in a romantic way and aren't thinking of bouncing off after the next new thing.
Compliments are not pointless, they help relationships to stay strong.
In terms of my example. It has no logical meaning = pointless.
My example. Not my thoughts.
Your use of pointless has a different context and meaning.
My point was about an NT/AS thing.
The difficulty is it can seem like it's a man/woman thing, doesn't mean it is - in this case.
I cant continue as that would be pointless
hatfullofrain
Well-Known Member
My goodness you're not even willing to engage in conversation at all! I said that I understood your example and discussed it and you're not even willing to discuss my point. I explained why it's not pointless, but you won't argue why it is or isn't you just keep parroting that in one narrow scenario, it's pointless.
Whatever. I'd be interested to see what others think.
Whatever. I'd be interested to see what others think.
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