Addressing double standards in dating/love/sex

[Mary Terry]

I think is for the degradation of family values, that women are looking for the 15% top percent of men, and they get them, problem is lot of times these 'winner men' don't settle, but they still perceive those men are for them and don't want anything 'lower'. And there are guys who would want a family and fidelity, but are not those top 15 percenters.
As a result now you have lots of single women with kids, broken families etc.
All this for having bad values, men and women.

If someone else has a different perception i listen.

I think women have always sought the strongest, productive, mentally stable, able-bodied, attractive, intelligent men they can find. We're hardwired to do that. If men would stop impregnating women and abandoning them and their offspring, then there would be fewer single women with children. Some men think they are entitled to get a pass on assuming responsibility for the children they father and blame women for their lack of responsibility and commitment to the mother of their children. That leaves single women raising children alone and prompts women to recognize that they can do it all alone because they have been forced to do it all alone. The USA is awash with deadbeat dads who do not want to support their children.

 

[thejuice]

<record scratch sound effect>

What the what?

I don't think I have any value to add here.

Vanity is at least 50% of what a wedding is for to be fair!

His unfiltered honesty did make me laugh

 

[thejuice]

Brutal truth incoming but this woman doesn't even care enough about you to stop you being left hanging out to dry.. what good would she be in a relationship?

She is responsible for your current suffering because a simple message saying I'm not interested and wishing you well would suffice to end the matter.

What happened to manners..

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Brutal truth incoming but this woman doesn't even care enough about you to stop you being left hanging out to dry.. what good would she be in a relationship?

She is responsible for your current suffering because a simple message saying I'm not interested and wishing you well would suffice to end the matter.

What happened to manners..

That’s what I sometimes have told myself through the years. If they’re playing games and not upfront and honest, maybe they’re not worth being in a relationship.

I’d like to think of myself as someone who has a lot of manners, though it hasn’t gotten me very far.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I think women have always sought the strongest, productive, mentally stable, able-bodied, attractive, intelligent men they can find. We're hardwired to do that. If men would stop impregnating women and abandoning them and their offspring, then there would be fewer single women with children. Some men think they are entitled to get a pass on assuming responsibility for the children they father and blame women for their lack of responsibility and commitment to the mother of their children. That leaves single women raising children alone and prompts women to recognize that they can do it all alone because they have been forced to do it all alone. The USA is awash with deadbeat dads who do not want to support their children.

Agree. Men behaving badly, to a large extent because they have been brought up to filter their behaviors through their feelings and lack important virtues. On the other hand, a person rarely leaves a good relationship. Instead, I believe, we, as parents, but most especially fathers, need to teach our sons and daughters the virtues of self-discipline, responsibility, temperance, and honor. Too many young men want the sex part, but not the responsibility that goes along with that after the fact. Of course, this takes two, and one also has to question the decision-making of the woman who can see what kind of man she is inviting into her bed. There's a lot to chew on here, but it definitely starts with good parenting now to significantly reduce the destruction of our society in the future.

I would classify my wife and I as "feminist-classic" in terms of promoting the same virtues in our young women and daughters so they have the mental tools to do whatever they set their mind and bodies to do. To have the mental strength and fortitude to be a powerful CEO, or anything else they choose. However, there has been a misguided constituency amongst some feminists that take this to mean men are useless, that masculinity is bad, that feelings should guide behaviors, and if they are single mothers, are imprinting these thoughts into their sons and daughters. There is also a misguided constituency amongst some feminists that take on a more narcissistic characteristic of entitlement, where they want to make their own money (and not spend it), whilst demanding that the man support the two of them, the family, etc. I am all for feminism, but there are a few that have "poisoned the waterhole" that others are drinking from.

 

[Tom]

- Can’t be a trump supporter, MAGA, Q’Anon, conspiracy theorist.

Just an observation, that I find it curious that someone's political affiliation is a factor. How do you find that out? 'Do you then break it off if it doesn't match yours?

Maybe my memory is foggy, but back in my dating years I can't remember myself or anyone I knew mentioning political partys as having anything to do with girlfriend/boyfriends. I can imagine it happed back then but it would have been rare and something we would have likely ascribed to activists or extremists.

I always leaned conservative but would have courted a Liberal, and maybe even a Communist if I liked her enough.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Just an observation, that I find it curious that someone's political affiliation is a factor. How do you find that out? 'Do you then break it off if it doesn't match yours?

Maybe my memory is foggy, but back in my dating years I can't remember myself or anyone I knew mentioning political partys as having anything to do with girlfriend/boyfriends. I can imagine it happed back then but it would have been rare and something we would have likely ascribed to activists or extremists.

I always leaned conservative but would have courted a Liberal, and maybe even a Communist if I liked her enough.

I’m sure it eventually will come out. No, I will not break it off if she isn’t exactly like me politically, but I will break things if with her if she supports certain political candidates or positions.

If you’re ultra left like I am, awesome. If you’re a centrist, a moderate, even slightly right of center, okay, but I can’t deal with far/ultra right. Maybe others can, but I can’t.

 

[thejuice]

Fair enough that's a political chasm. There are interesting personality differences in left and right wing people. Left tend to be more open and agreeable, right introverted and conscientious so it makes sense to choose a partner at least somewhat politically aligned so the personalities are more likely to be compatible. The gap has to be bridgeable.

 

[Tom]

I’m sure it eventually will come out. No, I will not break it off if she isn’t exactly like me politically, but I will break things if with her if she supports certain political candidates or positions.

If you’re ultra left like I am, awesome. If you’re a centrist, a moderate, even slightly right of center, okay, but I can’t deal with far/ultra right. Maybe others can, but I can’t.

I know the political climate today is different from back then. As it is with religion. I don't remember us caring much about either tbh. 'Where's the party' was a whole lot more important. Maybe we were just dummer.

But at the same time I think it unfortunate that there is more of an 'Us and Them' atitude, I can't help thinking these boundries discourage discourse and attempts at mutual understanding. I've seen things like 'I don't care if you are friend or even family but if you vote for (whomever) I will no longer speak to you..' It's sad.

But I am hyjacking the thread with this.

Let me switch back to the original subject.

Complaining is a dead end street. Realistically, nobody outside your closest friends/family really cares. One of the reasons I think that is is because 'Fairness' in relationships isn't in the Bill of Rights, and doesn't exist in nature. None of us are assured a partner simply because we exist. It boils down, I think, to doing the best you can with the cards you were dealt. But you can be smart and creative about it to make yourself someone with better chance to be appealing to others. And look in the places where you think you will find someone of similar outlook.

If I was young/single and I was not in the military for some reason, I would be pushing hard to work in the archeology field, or at least as a regular volunteer, where you get to work side by side with others who like history.

Or I would work whatever and be a regular volunteer or even perhaps paid employee at an animal rescue, either pets or wild.

These are things I like but also tend to have very favorable women to men ratios, which would work for me, being hetero.

I guess the point is use your head, be willing to take action and you can overcome/bypass many obstaclles including those autism presents.

 

[Hypnalis]

Vanity is at least 50% of what a wedding is for to be fair!

There's a reason the bride's clothing is unique and distinctive (**), and the groom's is not (at their most distinctive they look very like the groomsmen).

If, early in a potential relationship, an XY-human told an XX-human they wanted to get all the attention that day, the chance of the relationship ending almost immediately would be over 95%

I saw the original post with that info (in a different thread I think?), but what could I do? Nobody ever listens to behavioral advice in this domain /sigh.

(**)
This is why it's no surprise that Reddit has so many stories of the narcissist "golden child" sister, vindictive psycho MIL, deranged jealous ex-GF, etc, turning up in white near-bridal clothing.
And hopefully betting turned away by security

 

[BewilderedPerson]

I know the political climate today is different from back then. As it is with religion. I don't remember us caring much about either tbh. 'Where's the party' was a whole lot more important. Maybe we were just dummer.

But at the same time I think it unfortunate that there is more of an 'Us and Them' atitude, I can't help thinking these boundries discourage discourse and attempts at mutual understanding. I've seen things like 'I don't care if you are friend or even family but if you vote for (whomever) I will no longer speak to you..' It's sad.

But I am hyjacking the thread with this.

Let me switch back to the original subject.

Complaining is a dead end street. Realistically, nobody outside your closest friends/family really cares. One of the reasons I think that is is because 'Fairness' in relationships isn't in the Bill of Rights, and doesn't exist in nature. None of us are assured a partner simply because we exist. It boils down, I think, to doing the best you can with the cards you were dealt. But you can be smart and creative about it to make yourself someone with better chance to be appealing to others. And look in the places where you think you will find someone of similar outlook.

If I was young/single and I was not in the military for some reason, I would be pushing hard to work in the archeology field, or at least as a regular volunteer, where you get to work side by side with others who like history.

Or I would work whatever and be a regular volunteer or even perhaps paid employee at an animal rescue, either pets or wild.

These are things I like but also tend to have very favorable women to men ratios, which would work for me, being hetero.

I guess the point is use your head, be willing to take action and you can overcome/bypass many obstaclles including those autism presents.

So, you might not care, but that doesn’t mean nobody does. Furthermore, while I, naturally, care about my own plight more than I do others have on here, but that doesn’t mean I’m unsympathetic to those who have it as bad, if not worse than I do when it comes to dating. I’m happy to show encouragement and support and I want to see them succeed, too.

That said, and I’ll reiterate this - women can size up men however they want, just that my point is they cannot (at least should not) complain if a man evaluates them with the same criteria.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

There's a reason the bride's clothing is unique and distinctive (**), and the groom's is not (at their most distinctive they look very like the groomsmen).

If, early in a potential relationship, an XY-human told an XX-human they wanted to get all the attention that day, the chance of the relationship ending almost immediately would be over 95%

I saw the original post with that info (in a different thread I think?), but what could I do? Nobody ever listens to behavioral advice in this domain /sigh.

(**)
This is why it's no surprise that Reddit has so many stories of the narcissist "golden child" sister, vindictive psycho MIL, deranged jealous ex-GF, etc, turning up in white near-bridal clothing.
And hopefully betting turned away by security

What if I told you for if and when that day happens for me that I have an idea of more non-traditional, unconventional clothing for that day?

 

[Hypnalis]

What if I told you for if and when that day happens for me that I have an idea of more non-traditional, unconventional clothing for that day?

You don't need to convince me one way or the other.

I believe that adults have a right to make their own decisions (within the usual legal and moral behavioral constraints).
And that couples have an obligation to negotiate such things in good faith.

I also stand by what I said above. It would be unwise to raise anything like this too early.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

You don't need to convince me one way or the other.

I believe that adults have a right to make their own decisions (within the usual legal and moral behavioral constraints).
And that couples have an obligation to negotiate such things in good faith.

I also stand by what I said above. It would be unwise to raise anything like this too early.

Well, I’m not talking about commitment or marriage with a partner or potential partner unless she does.

And if I win the Powerball or Mega Millions, I’ll skip straight to the proposal and I’ll be sure to tell them that I want to be the center of attention that day and I’ll pay for all of it.

 

[Tom]

So, you might not care, but that doesn’t mean nobody does. Furthermore, while I, naturally, care about my own plight more than I do others have on here, but that doesn’t mean I’m unsympathetic to those who have it as bad, if not worse than I do when it comes to dating. I’m happy to show encouragement and support and I want to see them succeed, too.

That said, and I’ll reiterate this - women can size up men however they want, just that my point is they cannot (at least should not) complain if a man evaluates them with the same criteria.

So you are not complaining that women don't choose you, you are complaining that women can complain that women don't choose them... and you can't? This is very confusing.

Btw, on this site, my observation after 8-9 years are these complaints you speak of come from almost entirely ND men members and NT women visitors. Isn't that interesting? What does it mean (if anything)?

 

[Masked Man]

Quote:

Am I a bad person, per se, if I am indeed looking for a solution to my problem? That I don’t care what the basis of the relationship is, that I don’t care if we love each other or not, all so I can have a wedding I can’t stop idealizing about and have to have?

I need a wedding where I’m the star of the show and I’m the center of attention and it’s all about me with all eyes on me. I want to DJ my own music and give a speech gloating about how great I am and how I won by finally getting married.

Ah... I see

You're looking for social validation. Now it makes sense.

Yeah that's a very bad reason to get into a relationship. A woman who gets the tiniest whiff of that will run from you. You are basically looking for just anyone so you can get the validation you want.

You can do a stand up comedy routine and have all eyes on you. That way you're getting what you want and you're not hurting anyone else.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

So you are not complaining that women don't choose you, you are complaining that women can complain that women don't choose them... and you can't? This is very confusing.

Btw, on this site, my observation after 8-9 years are these complaints you speak of come from almost entirely ND men members and NT women visitors. Isn't that interesting? What does it mean (if anything)?

I am both bummed out and hurt that women don’t choose me and I don’t like it that an unwritten rule seems to be that women can complain and I can’t.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Quote:




Ah... I see

You're looking for social validation. Now it makes sense.

Yeah that's a very bad reason to get into a relationship. A woman who gets the tiniest whiff of that will run from you. You are basically looking for just anyone so you can get the validation you want.

You can do a stand up comedy routine and have all eyes on you. That way you're getting what you want and you're not hurting anyone else.

It depends for me on who the woman is. If it’s someone I really want, then I will want her for her. If If it’s a woman I want because I crave validation and attention, I still wish to treat her well, to be faithful to her, to be there and support her, but maybe someone else might be better for me, but I’m still getting validation.

Put it this way, I’ve talked to, gone on dates and seen some women because I liked them for them, but others I’ve talked to or might have met to not be lonely and feel some attention and validation.

This most recent one, I’ve liked her for her, and that’s the honest truth.

 

[MNAus]

It depends for me on who the woman is. If it’s someone I really want, then I will want her for her. If If it’s a woman I want because I crave validation and attention, I still wish to treat her well, to be faithful to her, to be there and support her, but maybe someone else might be better for me, but I’m still getting validation.

Put it this way, I’ve talked to, gone on dates and seen some women because I liked them for them, but others I’ve talked to or might have met to not be lonely and feel some attention and validation.

This most recent one, I’ve liked her for her, and that’s the honest truth.

Yeah, that latter one is a bit mean. I think there's a pretty big chance that they would be heading into things with at least the belief that they are looking for someone to have a loving relationship with, but you'd be heading in with the feeling of "I'm not really into you but you make me feel validated". I'm sure there are plenty of women who actually do get validation out of relationships (and men too) but I don't think it would be common that they would be there knowingly purely for validation. I think you would probably find you'd hurt quite a few people that way because to some extent it requires them to like you for you to get that validation.

I don’t like it that an unwritten rule seems to be that women can complain and I can’t.

But you can, and you are.

 

[Masked Man]

If If it’s a woman I want because I crave validation and attention, I still wish to treat her well, to be faithful to her, to be there and support her, but maybe someone else might be better for me, but I’m still getting validation.

With all due respect - what would be in it for her?

Look - women don't need men anymore. Women for the most part, earn their own money, they can buy houses on their own, they can hold positions of power.

So... you're not necessarily competing with other men, you're competing with whether or not you add something positive to her life.

So you get validation. What does she get out of this? What do you offer? How is her life made better after that wedding and everyone has gone home?