Addressing double standards in dating/love/sex

[BewilderedPerson]

There are few things I hate more in this world than double standards and hypocrisy, no matter what of life it is.

It seems to me they are especially prevalent when it comes to dating, and I’d like to share some examples.

The first example - as supportive as this forum is of me, my sincere gratitude, I’ve noticed people post on here, even ask me directly, what I can offer a woman, a woman has her goals, her dreams.

Okay, what about my goals and my dreams? What can a partner do for me? How many women have even considered doing something for me? It hasn’t been many.

And I’m not talking about giving me something of monetary value. The only thing I want from a woman is her.

Another one I see a lot, saying women aren’t objects, they much discourage use of language perceived as objectifying women.

That’s all great until I know women objectify men, that they size them up within seconds of meeting them if they’ll ever sleep with them or not.

You don’t want to be objectified? You want men to see you as people? That’s cool, just don’t objectify us or doom us within of even meeting us, without even knowing what kind of person we even are.

If we value looks into a partner, men are shallow, but women are just going for ‘attractiveness.’

To help give me some more fulfillment, I’m wanting to donate to a sperm bank and father a child, and hopefully have some kind of relationship with said child at some point in my life.

I saw a YouTube commenter lashing out accusing a donor of entitlement and the mother gets to decide which sperm to use for good genetics.

But the mother is entitled to good genetics for the child, then? Is that right?

I’d just thought I’d point some of this out, because I’m ready to love someone, give my heart to her and for her to take advantage of whatever good qualities I might have - but very few do and not for long.

And it doesn’t help having to wade through all of this while being on the spectrum and double standards existing in the world of dating.

 

[Fino]

I'm certainly no expert on sperm banks, but are you really ever allowed to be in contact with a child if your sperm is ever selected? Is the donor even notified?

As for double standards, imagine if there weren't any, if we achieve total equality. What would that look like? A utopia? An odd dream?

 

[BewilderedPerson]

I'm certainly no expert on sperm banks, but are you really ever allowed to be in contact with a child if your sperm is ever selected? Is the donor even notified?

As for double standards, imagine if there weren't any, if we achieve total equality. What would that look like? A utopia? An odd dream?

I don’t know. I know sperm donors can at least meet their kids after they’ve reached adulthood.

I’ll take a utopia, whatever that’s supposed to look like, over the painful realities of now.

 

[Fino]

One of the many reasons a utopia is impossible is because of how many different perceptions exist: about eight billion. It is a complete impossibility that there could be a universe in which the preferences of all eight billion are satisfied. The solution, therefore, is not for our external world to be changed--or at least not that alone--but for all people to change. We must all change into an image of perfection. If we were to label this idea of perfection, "God," then all I did just now was describe the foundation of Christianity.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

As a female, l know l will have less opportunities then you will to become successful. When l looked back at a most of my life, l also went through a lot of unwanted attention in jobs l was truly trying to succeed at. And l won't even delve into stepfather abuse, rape, and stalking,(4 years). So l am sorry that l can't do something for you. Sometimes, men truly have no clue as females what we go thru. Sorry, if l don't show a lot of compassion.

Though it seems as if you have in the other thread, I will say I’m sorry you witnessed that and that’s worse than anything I’ve been through.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

One of the many reasons a utopia is impossible is because of how many different perceptions exist: about eight billion. It is a complete impossibility that there could be a universe in which the preferences of all eight billion are satisfied. The solution, therefore, is not for our external world to be changed--or at least not that alone--but for all people to change. We must all change into an image of perfection. If we were to label this idea of perfection, "God," then all I did just now was describe the foundation of Christianity.

And what if I’m a nonbeliever?

 

[Thinx]

I'm sorry you are up against the difficulties of finding a good relationship, but I don't think these big generalisations are helpful. There are lots of different types of men, women and people of other genders, in the world, and although some are mean or unkind, there are others around who are not.

Surely you can't really think all men are the same, or even similar? That's like, near half the people in the world? Or women, either. There are women you could meet who you could have a good relationship with, I am sure. Maybe say more about what you are aiming for? Do you have friends or family who are in happy relationships? Can you talk to them about how they get along? How did they meet for example?

 

[1ForAll]

Double standards likely happen somewhat equally both ways , but to support the op I will at least initially focus on the double standards against guys for relationship issues. Below is an article I felt I agreed with the points there.

9 Double Standards in Relationships: How They Affect Men and How to Deal With Them - Knowledge For Men

Discover common double standards men face in relationships and learn practical strategies to address them in a healthy and empowering way.

www.knowledgeformen.com

 

[BewilderedPerson]

I'm sorry you are up against the difficulties of finding a good relationship, but I don't think these big generalisations are helpful. There are lots of different types of men, women and people of other genders, in the world, and although some are mean or unkind, there are others around who are not.

Surely you can't really think all men are the same, or even similar? That's like, near half the people in the world? Or women, either. There are women you could meet who you could have a good relationship with, I am sure. Maybe say more about what you are aiming for? Do you have friends or family who are in happy relationships? Can you talk to them about how they get along? How did they meet for example?

Some people I know or used to know met in apps, others met in person, through work, other instances.

I appreciate your response and your support.

What I want is that life partner that would fulfill me.

When my time is up, I want to feel peace, and a life partner would give me that in my life.

Not all men or all women are the same of course, but if my person is out there, waiting to love me as I am, I sure am having an awfully tough finding her.

 

[Thinx]

Some people I know or used to know met in apps, others met in person, through work, other instances.

I appreciate your response and your support.

What I want is that life partner that would fulfill me.

When my time is up, I want to feel peace, and a life partner would give me that in my life.

Not all men or all women are the same of course, but if my person is out there, waiting to love me as I am, I sure am having an awfully tough finding her.

A lot of us here would say the same, but I think this happens to us because of our different processes in communication, that seems to be a central part of what being neurodivergent or autistic, means.

My thinking is that we have a best chance of meeting people when we are in groups that meet regularly, this could be our employment, or classes, or interests that we pursue, any regular ongoing club or pastime, etc. We often need time, to get to know people, to be accepted and for our abilities and strengths to be shown and seen.

We are often unusual people, in some ways, so this can make it harder to find the right fit too. Maybe think about joining some classes or groups, perhaps activity groups, sports or theatre going, writing groups, book groups, a first aid class, a walking group, learning bridge or pottery or counselling, or computer skills, etc. Do some volunteering. Ideally don’t have the focus on getting a relationship, so much as meeting others and enjoying an interest?

 

[BewilderedPerson]

A lot of us here would say the same, but I think this happens to us because of our different processes in communication, that seems to be a central part of what being neurodivergent or autistic, means.

My thinking is that we have a best chance of meeting people when we are in groups that meet regularly, this could be our employment, or classes, or interests that we pursue, any regular ongoing club or pastime, etc. We often need time, to get to know people, to be accepted and for our abilities and strengths to be shown and seen.

We are often unusual people, in some ways, so this can make it harder to find the right fit too. Maybe think about joining some classes or groups, perhaps activity groups, sports or theatre going, writing groups, book groups, a first aid class, a walking group, learning bridge or pottery or counselling, or computer skills, etc. Do some volunteering. Ideally don’t have the focus on getting a relationship, so much as meeting others and enjoying an interest?

Well, that could work, but I know the only reason I’d join.

If I’m getting ghosted by another on the spectrum, I’m not sure I’m overly optimistic about my hopes, though I’ve relationships with NTs.

Like I said, I’m skeptical of all women now after being burned by this last one, assuming I don’t hear from her again. So, I don’t think I can really get my hopes up much.

Someone suggested in the other thread to talk to women, ask them their names. It’s not a good thing when a woman I saw near me had her phone out and couldn’t even make eye contact with her.

Sometimes, I feel good if a woman even acknowledges my existence.

But I feel as if women treat me like I’m The Elephant Man or something.

 

[jsilver256]

The first example - as supportive as this forum is of me, my sincere gratitude, I’ve noticed people post on here, even ask me directly, what I can offer a woman, a woman has her goals, her dreams.

Okay, what about my goals and my dreams? What can a partner do for me? How many women have even considered doing something for me? It hasn’t been many.

One of the great mysteries (to me, anyway) is that given that the gender balance is roughly 50-50, the average man has a much harder time getting a date than the average woman can get a date. In theory, the probabilities should be equal, but for whatever reason all anecdotes suggest that it's not.

I'm a woman, and I've never had a shortage of men crushing on me. I had over fifty messages inside a week when I signed up on a dating website before I married. Of course, in my typical fashion, I got overwhelmed and I shut down my account instead of responding to any. This isn't meant to be a bragging right, it's meant to explain what the experience is like for the other gender.

Now, if you came here and you said "I have fifty women wanting to date me, which one should I pick?" then you'd probably get an answer like "choose the richest one!" or "who's the hottest one?" or something equally shallow.

But on the other hand - if I had no contacts, and I instead sent out contacts to fifty men and they all ignored me, then it would be a very valid thing to probe me and figure out what I can do to be better. Because ultimately, the only one that's under my control is myself.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

One of the great mysteries (to me, anyway) is that given that the gender balance is roughly 50-50, the average man has a much harder time getting a date than the average woman can get a date. In theory, the probabilities should be equal, but for whatever reason all anecdotes suggest that it's not.

I'm a woman, and I've never had a shortage of men crushing on me. I had over fifty messages inside a week when I signed up on a dating website before I married. Of course, in my typical fashion, I got overwhelmed and I shut down my account instead of responding to any. This isn't meant to be a bragging right, it's meant to explain what the experience is like for the other gender.

Now, if you came here and you said "I have fifty women wanting to date me, which one should I pick?" then you'd probably get an answer like "choose the richest one!" or "who's the hottest one?" or something equally shallow.

But on the other hand - if I had no contacts, and I instead sent out contacts to fifty men and they all ignored me, then it would be a very valid thing to probe me and figure out what I can do to be better. Because ultimately, the only one that's under my control is myself.

So, as far as I’m concerned, I can read women about as well as I’d be able to read War in Peace…in Russian or to read Braille while blindfolded.

I’d choose based on who was closest to me, whose political viewpoints aligned with mine, don’t have to be a supermodel, but should look passable at least in my eyes, what common interests we had, etc.

And so, I’m guessing your rationale is, is that based off how many prospects there are, my wants and needs, my dreams and goals, aren’t nearly as important, if at all.

 

[Fino]

And what if I’m a nonbeliever?

If you agree with the premise that what needs to be changed is people, then just don't call it "God." Call it whatever you'd like to call it.

 

[Tom]

Meeting women as in going up cold to a stranger, is not really likely to have good results. The women I met were in the context of a workplace, a sport, volunteer organization, etc. Over time you get to know them (to some extent) (and they get to know you), and its not in the artifical dating environment, but a more natural setting. And if you come to like one, and you think you have gotten positive vibes back, then you take the next step and ask them out.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Meeting women as in going up cold to a stranger, is not really likely to have good results. The women I met were in the context of a workplace, a sport, volunteer organization, etc. Over time you get to know them (to some extent) (and they get to know you), and its not in the artifical dating environment, but a more natural setting. And if you come to like one, and you think you have gotten positive vibes back, then you take the next step and ask them out.

I’ve had the feelings of positive vibes before and it didn’t go the way I wanted.

I have never gotten a yes by asking someone in person. Literally date I’ve ever had has either come online or through a matchmaker I paid.

 

[Shevek]

I am also offended by hypocrisy and double standards, but I have come to believe that we have double standards built in around gender right down to our amygdala, which is, of course, responsible for the four "F"s - Feeding, Fighting, Fleeing, and Fornication. It has been very unfashionable to talk about how human biology affects human behaviour, but our neocortex can only try to cover up and rationalize the double standards, but never count them out.
When birth control pills came out, I expected that girls would lose their reservations about having sex, and we'd all be as promiscuous as the gay scene before AIDS. That didn't happen. They sure enjoyed a jolly romp, but dinner and a movie were still a great way to start setting the mood.

I don't want to write a whole essay here, but some of the basic biology here is that throughout history, populations have had to struggle to barely maintain their numbers. We could not afford to waste any wombs, but the men were expendable, and where fitness got tested. You have twice as many female ancestors as males. Many men had no children, and some were highly favoured. We still automatically put the women in the lifeboats first.

There is also a big difference between men and women regarding knowing for sure who their children are. Even though that has been changed by technology, there is great resistance to applying the findings.

There really is a women's logic, but I've written enough for now.

 

[thejuice]

There are few things I hate more in this world than double standards and hypocrisy, no matter what of life it is.

It seems to me they are especially prevalent when it comes to dating, and I’d like to share some examples.

The first example - as supportive as this forum is of me, my sincere gratitude, I’ve noticed people post on here, even ask me directly, what I can offer a woman, a woman has her goals, her dreams.

Okay, what about my goals and my dreams? What can a partner do for me? How many women have even considered doing something for me? It hasn’t been many.

And I’m not talking about giving me something of monetary value. The only thing I want from a woman is her.

Another one I see a lot, saying women aren’t objects, they much discourage use of language perceived as objectifying women.

That’s all great until I know women objectify men, that they size them up within seconds of meeting them if they’ll ever sleep with them or not.

You don’t want to be objectified? You want men to see you as people? That’s cool, just don’t objectify us or doom us within of even meeting us, without even knowing what kind of person we even are.

If we value looks into a partner, men are shallow, but women are just going for ‘attractiveness.’

To help give me some more fulfillment, I’m wanting to donate to a sperm bank and father a child, and hopefully have some kind of relationship with said child at some point in my life.

I saw a YouTube commenter lashing out accusing a donor of entitlement and the mother gets to decide which sperm to use for good genetics.

But the mother is entitled to good genetics for the child, then? Is that right?

I’d just thought I’d point some of this out, because I’m ready to love someone, give my heart to her and for her to take advantage of whatever good qualities I might have - but very few do and not for long.

And it doesn’t help having to wade through all of this while being on the spectrum and double standards existing in the world of dating.

I often see threads of men suffering in the dating world and almost inevitably the subject of objectification comes up. It's like an iron law. No wonder men bottle things up.

 

[thejuice]

This is gonna be hard but please try not to let the inner critic attach a narrative to the pain your feeling with this girl. She's just one girl and who knows the what's and whys.

 

[thejuice]

I've skim read a couple books on flirting and have learned to look for so called 'green lights' of interest in body language and eye contact from women. Using peripheral vision to scan the room.

It's useful but my next challenge is to muster up the courage to go over and talk. Sometimes I feel like verbal English is a second language, I write okay though.

A handful of nasty experiences dent your confidence, but green lights should in theory stack the cards In your favour of talking to an interested and open woman. Like you said the woman with her phone out and no eye contact is a non starter. It helps to have an excuse planned for getting out if the situation bombs. "I'm meeting a friend, nice to meet you" or something..

People tend to like smiley, happy people. I try to go against my nature and be like that. Fake it till you make it you know?