8 fold path - Buddhism

[TBRS1]

I generally avoid religion because I will get tangled in wild esoteric speculations that, though fun, are "real world" useless.

However, intentionally following the 8 fold path works very well for me - I have a wild streak that gets me into endless unpleasant situations. The 8 fold path keeps me out of those messes.

Summary (Eightfold Path | Summary & Eight Elements of the Path):

"In brief, the eight elements of the path are: (1) correct view, an accurate understanding of the nature of things, specifically the Four Noble Truths, (2) correct intention, avoiding thoughts of attachment, hatred, and harmful intent, (3) correct speech, refraining from verbal misdeeds such as lying, divisive speech, harsh speech, and senseless speech, (4) correct action, refraining from physical misdeeds such as killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct, (5) correct livelihood, avoiding trades that directly or indirectly harm others, such as selling slaves, weapons, animals for slaughter, intoxicants, or poisons, (6) correct effort, abandoning negative states of mind that have already arisen, preventing negative states that have yet to arise, and sustaining positive states that have already arisen, (7) correct mindfulness, awareness of body, feelings, thought, and phenomena (the constituents of the existing world), and (8) correct concentration, single-mindedness."

As near as I can tell, everything else in Buddhism either tells you why these things matter, or how to accomplish them (I have perpetual problems with #3, personally).

 

[VictorR]

Buddhism and Taoism can both be practiced as philosophies rather than as religions, and in the former, mesh well with mindfulness and stoicism.

 

[TBRS1]

Yup - I'm an evil atheist and it works for me .

 

[Au Naturel]

Also strongly relates to the Cognitive Behavioral family of therapies.

The older I get, the better Epicureanism looks.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Last year in Bangkok, I got an education about the basic precepts of Buddhism. And went to a meditation center to ponder what I had been learning. I felt that when you strip the superstition away what is left is very humanistic ethics.

 

[TBRS1]

That seems to be the general form that Buddhism is taking in America - humanist, and either nondenominational (practical Buddhism without changing religious affiliation) or secular.

Some people say this dilutes Buddhism, is a form of cultural appropriation, or disrespects Buddha.

My opinion is that the goal of Buddhism is to reduce suffering (4 noble truths), so if this way works best for people, it's what Buddha would have wanted.

LOL - cognitive behavior therapy could be turned into a religion, if somebody wanted to compete with Buddhism .

 

[Outdated]

I'm not religious or spiritual at all but I did enjoy reading about Buddha many years ago. Traditionally it was not a religion, instead it lived alongside various other religions.

Buddha was not a god, was not a son of god, had nothing to do with any gods. Buddha was a man. A philosopher. He was a very clever man who wrote a set of tenets that would allow large numbers of people to live together in harmony.

When you see traditional Buddhists praying they are not praying to Buddha, they are praying for him. Praying to whatever gods or spirits that they believe in that Buddha's soul will have a safe journey in gratitude for his wisdom.

 

[Au Naturel]

There are religious Buddhists who believe in Hell. Religious Buddhism holds that there are anywhere from 16 to 64,000 different hells (depending on who you talk to) that one can go to depending on how one sinned in life. Each hell is customized to a specific sin, rather like Dante's Inferno. There's a crushing hell and an assortment of burning hells and cold hells. There's a hell for murderers where they are beaten to death and then brought back to be beaten to death again, aka revival hell. There's a lesser screaming hell and a greater screaming hell.

Once you've learned your lesson, you get to reincarnate. If you don't repent your sin, you're stuck.

Go to (Japanese) Hells!

'Go to hell!' doesn't sound so bad compared to 'Go to multiple Japanese hells!'

www.tofugu.com

Anime has a couple of interesting takes on Jikogu - Japanese Buddhist hell. The funniest one is "Hozuki's Coolheadedness." OTOH, "Jikogu Shoujo" (Hell Girl) is pretty heavy.

 

[Athyrium]

Buddhism and Taoism can both be practiced as philosophies rather than as religions, and in the former, mesh well with mindfulness and stoicism.

As someone who used to live in East Asia, this is very much a western orientalist take of what are religions just as structured, hierarchical and patriarchal as Catholicism and Islam. Buddhism especially.

Buddhism's view on reincarnation is commonly used as a form of victim-blaming of people in unfortunate circumstances in countries with a strong Buddhist presence. (like us autistic people) as according to them, we did something bad in our past life to deserve this.

Finally, many forms of Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism do view Buddha as a god, and believe in various other minor gods and spirits. While there is nothing wrong with that, I don't understand how you could continue to appropriate this religion as a "philosophy".

 

[TBRS1]

So... Yes, I've heard of reincarnation victim blaming. That's horrible!

Also, violates an essential Buddhist doctrine - "No (permanent) self."

(organizations are always horrible at implementing their own stated principles)

I have been told (maybe true?) that Tibetan Buddhism has gods and demons, but they are considered mental constructs, real, but real in the mind.

For example, I have an antique vajra in the form of a miniature battle ax. It's used in exorcism to defeat the demon of ignorance.

(Metaphorically, ignorance is one heck of a demon!)

 

[Au Naturel]

As someone who used to live in East Asia, this is very much a western orientalist take of what are religions just as structured, hierarchical and patriarchal as Catholicism and Islam. Buddhism especially.

Buddhism's view on reincarnation is commonly used as a form of victim-blaming of people in unfortunate circumstances in countries with a strong Buddhist presence. (like us autistic people) as according to them, we did something bad in our past life to deserve this.

Finally, many forms of Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism do view Buddha as a god, and believe in various other minor gods and spirits. While there is nothing wrong with that, I don't understand how you could continue to appropriate this religion as a "philosophy".

Because if we could not, we'd lose all the great philosophical features of Buddhism because we didn't want the dubious religious features. Many useful philosophical schools have religious connections. One discards what isn't useful.

Cultural appropriation is a good thing. It is how one can enjoy tacos and pizza while thinking about Stoicism and watching anime.

There are far worse existences than being autistic. You can as easily say that we did something good in our last life to get promoted to the one we have. Reincarnation is a two-way street.

 

[trustinnerwisdom]

So... Yes, I've heard of reincarnation victim blaming. That's horrible!

Also, violates an essential Buddhist doctrine - "No (permanent) self."

(organizations are always horrible at implementing their own stated principles)

I have been told (maybe true?) that Tibetan Buddhism has gods and demons, but they are considered mental constructs, real, but real in the mind.

For example, I have an antique vajra in the form of a miniature battle ax. It's used in exorcism to defeat the demon of ignorance.

(Metaphorically, ignorance is one heck of a demon!)

So logical, people tend to get stuck in their minds and to find a solution, they are looking for something representing that, in a physical way.
In this case, you give it a name -Ignorance and a character-Demon. But also a physical tool to slay it with.
In that way it is way easier to know what you are up against?
What is the opposite of Ignorance ? How would you feel without Ignorance in your life ?
And what kind of mental construction, you want to deconstruct ? And what you strive to mental construct instead of Ignorance?
I would prefer to have a physical represent of what I strive to replace it with too ?
And a name and a character for that too ?

 

[Athyrium]

Because if we could not, we'd lose all the great philosophical features of Buddhism because we didn't want the dubious religious features. Many useful philosophical schools have religious connections. One discards what isn't useful.

Cultural appropriation is a good thing. It is how one can enjoy tacos and pizza while thinking about Stoicism and watching anime.

There are far worse existences than being autistic. You can as easily say that we did something good in our last life to get promoted to the one we have. Reincarnation is a two-way street.

I am sorry that I am not communicating this well so I have pondered and simplified what I am trying to say and want to communicate this:

It frustrates me, and I do not understand why, people tend to exclusively handwave away and ignore the praxis and dogma of Buddhism, in what is a dogmatic and praxic religion with a history of implementing these over thousands of years. This is especially so when elements of this religion are used regularly in therapy commonly in my part of the US.

While, for example, victim-blaming can be hand-waved away as an incorrect interpretation on a philosophical level, this ignores the long history and tradition of subjugation and oppression caused by the dogmatic interpretations of such views.

 

[Au Naturel]

I am sorry that I am not communicating this well so I have pondered and simplified what I am trying to say and want to communicate this:

It frustrates me, and I do not understand why, people tend to exclusively handwave away and ignore the praxis and dogma of Buddhism, in what is a dogmatic and praxic religion with a history of implementing these over thousands of years. This is especially so when elements of this religion are used regularly in therapy commonly in my part of the US.

While, for example, victim-blaming can be hand-waved away as an incorrect interpretation on a philosophical level, this ignores the long history and tradition of subjugation and oppression caused by the dogmatic interpretations of such views.

This is my POV on the topic. YMMV.

I am happy to ignore the long history and tradition of subjugation and oppression caused by the dogmatic interpretations of such views. It doesn't affect those things that ring true and I cannot control what happens in other people's minds. As long as I don't interpret anything dogmatically, I'm fine.

Werner Heisenberg was the lead scientist in Germany's WWII nuclear bomb project. I am free to accept and use the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in physics without worrying about the horrors of the war or the dogma of Nazi Germany.

dog·ma - noun - a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
- Oxford dictionary

No philosophy, ideology, or religion exists in a world that is not oppressive once it becomes dogmatic. Not capitalism or communism or communitarianism, Christianity or Buddhism or atheism, Stoicism, Hedonism or Existentialism, or rational materialism. (Even nudism!) Someone will always want to burn the witches, figuratively or literally. The potential for oppression exists in every aspect of culture, even in fashion and entertainment.

People like to generate dogma. It gives the people in power more power. It allows people not in power to be lazy and not have to think. Dogma makes life in a complex world simple. Mindless conformity is easier and becomes self-reinforcing. Anything that generates dogma leads to oppression because dogma does not tolerate free thought.

Yet all those -isms have useful elements. They express truths about human nature and relationships. Piecing together a little of this and a little of that is how you generate a working approach to existence without becoming a thought clone. If I cannot discard the bad and keep the good, then there is no value in millennia of human thought. I can go back to watching cat videos on Youtube, do just as my favorite influencer says, and never consider any of the deeper issues of life.

 

[TBRS1]

I am sorry that I am not communicating this well so I have pondered and simplified what I am trying to say and want to communicate this:

It frustrates me, and I do not understand why, people tend to exclusively handwave away and ignore the praxis and dogma of Buddhism, in what is a dogmatic and praxic religion with a history of implementing these over thousands of years. This is especially so when elements of this religion are used regularly in therapy commonly in my part of the US.

While, for example, victim-blaming can be hand-waved away as an incorrect interpretation on a philosophical level, this ignores the long history and tradition of subjugation and oppression caused by the dogmatic interpretations of such views.

I actually agree with you. Buddhism (the religion) is a thing in itself, with a past, present, and future. It has characteristics: social, spiritual, cultural, and so on.

To extract one specific "chunk" from that complex matrix and refer to that chunk as "Buddhism" is, yup, wrong.

But now I have a problem: the by far greater part of my personal mental hygiene program is derived from Buddhist writings (in translation), explanations of Buddhist inner practices, etcetera. And, since there is a huge variety of thought within general "Buddhism," I pick and choose what works for me under my specific conditions - so I create my own "thing" that is not really any form of recognizable Buddhism.

In short, so much of what I do is directly derived from Buddhism that it would be wholly unethical not to reference Buddhism.

How might I fairly refer to what I do? Maybe "Buddhist derived mental hygene"?

Most legitimately, this is a more correct description.