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Depression

So many Aspies here are depressed. With the coming of the fall, cooler weather & diminishing light it seems to be reaching epidemic proportions. Every day, another member shows up feeling defeated. I know that many of us have mild to severe Seasonal Affective Disorder & while it may contribute to the depression epidemic, it isn't the root cause.

Many of the most severely affected have serious relationship/financial/health issues. Others seem terribly lonely because they want friends but can't seem to find any or they want a romantic relationship but can't find the right person. Since my arrival in July, I've seen several Aspies get divorced, go through a break-up or are in 'on the brink of separating' relationships.

What the hell is going on? Now, we all know that being an Aspie in NT Land is challenging BUT we've been at it our entire lives, whether we knew the term or not. Many depressed Aspies here are taking anti-depressants, anti-anxiety meds, sleep aids & pills to boost the anti-depressant's effects. I'm supportive of conventional medicine to an extent: it has saved lives & provided great relief from many troublesome ailments.

However, when it comes to anti-anxiety/anti-depressant type meds, I'm sceptical. I know that they have helped many depressed people but I know they've done great harm as well. Many young people who take them develop a strong compulsion to commit suicide. In an Aspie youth, who is already prone to compulsive behaviours & so-called obsessions, this is especially problematic. Add to that the fact that these medications have never been tested on our differently wired Aspie brains is even more frightening. Sometimes the paranoid part of me wonders whether it all isn't one big experiment!

Since there are so many patients with mental illnesses, Aspies & NTs alike, the systems of most developed countries are overwhelmed by the amt of people needing assistance. THAT is where pills come in handy: talk to a patient quickly, maybe run a test or two & then write a prescription! The focus is on symptom management. How is that supposed to work if none of the underlying problems do not get addressed clinically as well?

I don't just mean talk therapy either: for many Aspies, this would be ineffective since many of us are virtually emotionless. In my case, feelings are more sensory input type things than fully fledged emotions. I feel cold, tired, hot, annoyed, hungry, mildly amused but not the complex deep all-encompassing feelings other people seem to be beset with. At the other extreme are the hypersensitive Aspies some of whom shut their emotions out due to inability to cope with or even process their intensity or those who are hypersensitive & over-emote. The emotions or behaviours the Dr sees must be interpreted through the context of that person's temperament & tendencies. Put simply, our 'baselines' for normal emotional expression are NOT what these Drs learned about in shrink school.

I fear that many Aspies with depression are not truly clinically depressed in a medical sense but more overwhelmed by a combination of relational issues & financial ones. Relieve these problems & many of the depressive symptoms will likely lift. Making that happen would prove costly & time consuming so throwing pills at them is easier.

Reading through the threads, there are many people here who drink waay to much & are combining pills & booze: another no-no. Further messing with the brain's chemistry, many Aspies here at least, are living off of sugar/carb/salt/fat diets. Comfort food & cheap junk food consumption seems rampant. I enjoy junk food now & then as much as the next self-respecting Aspie, but it doesn't encompass my daily diet.

The more I think about this, the more I think that we're going to have to help ourselves through all this & compel ourselves to make lifestyle-type changes. This is a pedantic & plodding process requiring much honesty, much discipline & a lot of courage. Failing that, the depressed Aspie will continue to get stuffed with pills that were never designed for or tested on his/her unique brain structure & as logic would predict, getting negligible results.



Comments

Perhaps you just stumble upon a few people going through a rough period in their life. In the 1+ year I've been here, I have seen a lot of people that were not in doom and gloom in a perpetual state.

A reason I don't want to try meds, is because of wiring. With official and unofficial disorders running rampant within me, I have no clue what's gonna react how, and I can cope with most of my stuff in my own way. If it ain't that broken... don't fix it.

When I was seeing a therapist however, and I even talked about this with my girlfriend earlier this week; I can clearly state that I'm not depressed in a clinical sense most of the time. Mood swings aside clearly. But more often than not, it's a rational reasoning (that's a tautology) going on in my mind that makes me consider all options that might work for me, and I conclude "I'm all out of options". I know best what works for me, and how it works. I'm all for trying options, but at some point I can tell if I feel that this will work or not. I found that I'm quite sure that group therapy will not work for me because I have only little interest in other people. If we have such therapy sessions with people that have the same outlook, the same disorders, and the same issues, that's constructive... or at least a stab at being constructive. Trying to make me fit in with the rest wont work. It's a thing I somewhat wonder about, since our government pretty much expects all unemployed people to follow a workshop on to act during job applications, so you increase chances for employment. I'm for that, but I'm quite sure that it doesn't work for this aspie who gets stressed out leaving the house (to go there even), has little patience with other people, and probably has 0 understanding in social behaviour and acting to what actually is "the norm". That was a little tangent, but it's a similar case as certain therapies and courses.

Also; In february 2011, I dropped out of school officially and ended up between a rock and a hard place. I had no income (since my college loan/funding was stopped), I had no social security going on, I already was behind on paying health insurance, and I even held out for another 2 months living of some minor savings I made. In between I ended up visiting a therapist because I both had issues that were spectrum related, as well as battling with depression. Come may of the same year (so 3 months after), when I finally applied for social security, we had a chat and I told them I was seeing a therapist because of depression. They wanted me tested by their "specialist" and that proved that I wasn't depressed. Why? Well, both for taking a quote of out context in an explanation I made, as well as my current situation. I had my social security stuff sorted out; I was not behind on bills, I had money to spend on stuff I like, I could go places if I wanted, pick up hobbies again and get my life on track. Of course I'm less depressed now. That has nothing to do with mental issues, it's something everyone can figure out.

A big problem I notice for myself, as well as my friend (and a few others in my semi-social life); because we can't be put to work, we lack a bit of income to actually do stuff and go places. That's what keeps me depressed if anything. I can self-medicate in a lot of ways if I want. As long as I have money to self-medicate and cope with life (or even better; existence itself), that's fine. But I can easily imagine it starts with one beer, if you keep that habit, Jack or Johnny will become your best friend in a few months, he'll want to come over every day... but a bottle of whiskey isn't cheap (at least here)... even without any bills, I'm hard pressed to self-medicate myself for more than 20 days at the current rate of said liquor a bottle.

I would prefer, and therefore self-medicate myself with hobbies. It's somewhat healthier (though glue fumes are not healthy either), it's something to put energy, effort and skills in. You might even get something for it in return. But still, I can't sustain those hobbies on a daily basis. I have to plan a bit how much I can and want to spend, when I can work on said hobby, and when I have to take it slow so I don't run out of stuff to do. That's a rough way to get back to square 1.

As such, self-medicating vs. depression and the expenses, the thing that annoys me most, is that pills are covered by insurance, so called "daytime activity" ain't. That's something I find somewhat of a shame.

Another way in at least battle depressions is that I can at least least motivate myself to get out of the bed. I hate sleeping... well, not till late, but at least sleeping long hours. YOu'll rarely catch me being in bed for 7+ hours in one go. So I can get out, and at least try to get through the day. I'm noticing that this is a bit easier just after "payday", since I have stuff to do, places to go, stuff I wanted to buy, so I can move on with whatever plans I have going on. It's when I'm being put to a halt, being told "today, you are not allowed to do anything"... for whatever silly reason, which is the big danger that lurks in pretty much every corner, for me.
 
"... the thing that annoys me most, is that pills are covered by insurance, so called "daytime activity" ain't. That's something I find somewhat of a shame." -King_Oni

I agree. Here in QC, one of a few things the gov't is doing right is that it has established all kinds of workshop/daytime activity programmes for people with a myriad of challenges. They've found that these have cut down on vagrancy, substance abuse, depression & even abuse by caregivers. Many parents are themselves struggling & the full time care of a relative or child with a disability is a lot to manage. I recall one publicized case of a woman who was becoming suicidal because she had a severely autistic son & her elderly mother had Alzheimer's! Respite programmes for caregivers are vital. Through these activity groups (a Dr. social worker, teacher etc.) can help a person access them, many people with challenges meet others facing the same thing & gain a sense of community.

ChristianT's school Aspie club is a good example of an Aspie-driven initiative to form an activity group. For solitary Aspies with an avid hobby (like yourself) the system needs to be better informed as to how important, essential & therapeutic this is for the affected person. It isn't merely some lazy person sitting around playing Tiddlywinks while others work to support him or her. Occupational therapy doesn't have to occur in a supervised group setting in order to have medical merit or be legitimate.

I'm glad you haven't taken the pill-popping route: this really terrifies me to no end. The pills don't seem to even be working effectively on the Aspies here who take them. Since little is truly understood about the way the Aspie brain is structured & exactly where the differences are, we may require an entirely different class of medications that has yet to be discovered.
 
Oh, my dad swallows a lot of pills, ranging from physical issues to some mental issues. He was put on anti-depressants and all. Then got put off again. SSRI here, SSRI there... and the list goes on... 32 pills a day. Of course, out of all those there's also pills to reinforce your stomach to make sure the pills don't ruin your body totally in a short amount of time.

A reason I rather not go pills is because my more creative and "cheerful" moments are worth it a lot more than being flattened out all the time. At least now I can find the energy to write something interesting and spend time on doing things I actually like doing, instead of being a pseudo-vegetable just doing things that just make sure I don't bang my head against a wall since I have no drive for anything whatsoever.
 
I understand what you guys are saying.

I was on pills for about 5-6 years. Just did what my doctor said. I turned into a bland zombie. It wasn't until I asked to swap pills I realized what I was giving up. I had given up who I was. Now I try to self manage.

Not enough mental health practitioner know how to deal with even basic mental health let alone aspie specific needs. The last person I saw I went to because I wanted to overcome my phobias, specifically the doctor related ones, but they went uncured, I was diagnosised with asperger's syndrome and I ended up quitting my job because she made me realize I was destroying myself for something I hated. And I have spent so many hours with councilers and so on with nothing else getting resolved.

In Australia ... you get up to 16 visits with a psychologist paid for a year. and even then only half paid for by the government. And mental health is considered to be something that people don't see so it doesn't exist in Australia.

There needs to be more support for mental health and there needs to be a shift from here's a pill to actual management plans.
 
Dragon's Tooth;bt1486 said:
I understand what you guys are saying.

I was on pills for about 5-6 years. Just did what my doctor said. I turned into a bland zombie. It wasn't until I asked to swap pills I realized what I was giving up. I had given up who I was. Now I try to self manage.

Not enough mental health practitioner know how to deal with even basic mental health let alone aspie specific needs. The last person I saw I went to because I wanted to overcome my phobias, specifically the doctor related ones, but they went uncured, I was diagnosised with asperger's syndrome and I ended up quitting my job because she made me realize I was destroying myself for something I hated. And I have spent so many hours with councilers and so on with nothing else getting resolved.

In Australia ... you get up to 16 visits with a psychologist paid for a year. and even then only half paid for by the government. And mental health is considered to be something that people don't see so it doesn't exist in Australia.

There needs to be more support for mental health and there needs to be a shift from here's a pill to actual management plans.

A thing I then do wonder; how much does a psychologist visit cost in Australia? An issue some of us (amongst others with other disorders) is that there's only limited cash for therapy and/or visits (or even limited fundings for meds). I know enough aspies that don't have jobs, and live of social security or disability income, which is less than minimum wage.

Over here; back when I went to therapists, I got covered for 8 sessions, though I had to pay 10 euro (about 12 AUD/USD/CAD or 8 GBP) each session. Add in a national regulation that says that I have to pay 170 euro (215 AUD/USD/CAD or 135 GBP) "own risk" free annually. After I paid those, on top of healthinsurance; about 125 euro (160 AUD/USD/CAD or 100 GBP) a month, I get the remainder covered.

So all in all, I would paid about 30 euro (35 AUD/USD/CAD or 25 GBP) for each of the 8 sessions. That by itself isn't that expensive, but I still think it's silly to tell people that it's "own risk". Having any disorder isn't a risk you choose to take.

Now, come 2012; they changed that. Covered are 5 sessions. This means, that a therapist has to figure out what your deal is in roughly 5 hours. I remember mine took 6 sessions to just map out my entire history in terms of therapy, education, interest, personal life, etc.

They also added an additional 220 euro fee (280 AUD/USD/CAD or 175 GBP) anually, just for mental healthcare. So, bad back because of say... job-related incident... no problem, just pay the small fees. Psychotic? Let's charge you more, because it's your own fault? I remember reading an article early this year about a girl who comitted suicide over this. An 18-year old who wants to keep this away from parents (maybe her parents are the reason she's depressed) can not afford this. Nor can a fair share of unemployed people with mental problems. The best actually was, that specialists in the field (therapists and all) predicted that this would happen.
 
Funny how you wrote this right before my attempt.
You are correct; seems most of us are having issues. Whole entire blog entry could be applied to me.
 
The link between antidepressants and suicide is one that has been much discussed in the research community. The paradox seems to be that if a person is severely depressed he or she is much less likely to attempt suicide because he or she doesn't have the energy to think about let alone carry out the deed. In other words, they are TOO depressed. However, what happens with many antidepressants is that there seems to be a critical window where a person is still clinically depressed but now they are more able to think about their depression to the point where suicide becomes a real danger. This is particularly true of teenagers and young adults.

The pharmaceutical industry is aware of and concerned about this phenomenon and is trying to design antidepressants that don't carry an increased risk of suicide. This is easier said than done. Furthermore, there are other drugs out there which also can trigger suicidal thoughts and actions. I was quite surprised to find that a drug I have been taking for three decades for seizure control (Dilantin) carries with it an increased risk of suicide. Apparently this was not known at the time that it was prescribed for me. I went to my pharmacist who told me that if I hadn't done anything by now I probably would not. However, I do suffer from depression and there have been times when I have wished myself dead. Is this because of the drug I am taking or the frustration of my life with Asperger's?

What I find discouraging as a person with Asperger's and depression is that treatment is so damn expensive and difficult to find as King Oni states. And that while society "boo-hoos" over a person that commits suicide there really is no real will to prevent it. Suicide prevention centers cannot really deal with a lot of the issues that lead one to consider this option. They do not provide employment to the unemployed, housing to the homeless, and health care to those who don't have insurance. All they can provide is a listening ear and very little else. Yes, specialists can predict but they cannot prevent. And maybe that's the point. Because dead people don't cost society anything.
 
The link between anti depressants & suicide has taken many young victims here in QC. As you stated, they begin feeling a little better & a little more energized & unlike adults, lack impulse control so they simply act on their suicidal ideation. So long as a pill remains cheaper & more accessible than treatment, the problem will persist.

Further muddying the waters are social/cultural/religious factors. Boys in many cultures are still taught to restrain their feelings & any show of fear, emotional pain, vulnerability, sadness & needing help is emasculating & shameful. Homophobia also plays a role here as does misogyny & the devaluation of traits perceived as feminine & therefore WEAK. Their depression sometimes shows as self destructive extremely violent & defiant behaviours since they're denied the right to say, "I need help" or even recognize the fact that they do. these males often attract the attention of law enforcement & wind up in the wrong system. Instead of the justice system, they really need the mental health care system. Efforts are being made here at recognizing & catching these young men when they are first caught breaking the law so they can be properly directed.

Since our society became increasingly diverse with many people of non-western origins coming here, we're seeing denial of the fact that depression even exists! Many of what our DSM calls mental illnesses are not even recognized in their cultures. Mental illness is either some form of 'retardation' or severe psychosis. Barring those 2, you aren't mentally ill, you don't need treatment: just a good swift kick in the @$$ & some discipline. If you don't snap out of it, they'll beat it out of you. Any signs of abnormality in the family are considered to bring shame on the entire clan & can even diminish young girls' 'value' in the competitive marriage market if someone else in the family is 'mentally ill' or behaving unconventionally.

Even problems like Dyslexia can earn a child severe punishment at home in families where academic achievement is highly valued & their 'special needs' are considered a sign of shame, poor parenting & stupidity. Convincing some ethnic parents otherwise is almost impossible. One Bangladeshi parent flat out told me that mental problems are for weak, spoiled westerners (!) When I was through with her, you could hear her mouth slam shut. their son was crumbling under their pressure to become boy genius & good husband/engineer material. The youngster was gay (he'd told me BUT it was obvious) dyslexic & suffering from terrible self-esteem problems.

When people say mentally ill, it can mean many different things. In some places, a daughter can be labelled as mentally ill if she refuses to marry the complete stranger her parents sold her to! She can be mentally ill for wanting to play sports or engage in other culturally male domains. A boy wishing to do ballet & not join some militia can be treated as a mental case. It was like that in the west not so long ago: Jung believed that women who displayed keen interests & aptitude in socially male domains were mentally ill & even if they were very successful, it was only indicative of the severity of their illness. For these cultures, the cure for depressions is CONFORMITY. Conform to familial/social/cultural/religious norms & you will be happy & society will be happy & accepting of you. If your heart isn't in it, just APPEAR to conform. Eventually, you'll learn to be at peace with it.

As for suicide, it is so couched in shame, disgrace, religious condemnation & superstitious dread that it is taking even the so called advanced west a long time to address effectively. As SC stated, it is cheap: dig hole, bury dead guy. The family can deal, in hushed tones & deep denial, with 'what happened'. In many places, suicide is still a CRIME! Since it is illegal to murder someone else, self murder is also wrong so killing yourself becomes, in effect, a crime against the state or the crown! This begs the question, to whom does your life belong? Is it your own to end when you choose to? Can you end it only in the face of unbearable suffering, degradation & disability ultimately culminating in a horrible painful fearsome death? What if you just get sick of living & no longer want to be here or you feel like you've accomplished all you believe you were 'meant' to or intended to or are curious about what comes next? Are we reasonable in assuming that all suicidal people are nuts in some way & need to be treated & dissuaded?

I may be uncomfortable with suicide but if you are not, why should my opinion limit your options? And... I haven't even dragged religion & people's holy books into the conundrum yet!
 

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