Would you take an Aspie specific job, even if it was for rubbish money because you were on benefits?

[Mr Allen]

Topic.

Would you take on an Aspie/disabled specific job even if the money was rubbish because of the current UK laws stating you can't earn much without severe benefit sanctions?

If it was the absolute ONLY way I'd ever work, I'd half consider it, but after nigh on 26 years in the voluntary sector, I deserve a proper day's pay for a proper day's work IMO.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[tducey]

Work is work of course but it's always good to look at other opportunities as well and weigh them all out.

 

[SunnyDay16]

Probably not. It depends on the circumstance.

 

[StephF]

No !

 

[Mr Allen]

I am currently waiting to get to the top of the "Waiting list" for an employment course run by the local Social services, allegedly it would lead to more suitable jobs, however I refuse on principle to be plonked into some government sponsored 2 quid a day disabled specific position designed to shut the Daily Fail readers up by massaging the unemployment figures, like I said in the opening post, after 25 years of voluntary work, I'm better than that.

 

[Mr Allen]

Well I had a meeting with the Socials yesterday, what they're offering is not an employment course, which I'm kind of glad about, frees me up for the Autism Plus course I attended a meeting about last week, I'm attending a social group there next Thursday morning that includes gaming and coffee apparently.

Hopefully Xbox will be involved, I could do with boosting my achievements this month, we're on the 17th and so far this month I've only managed 5 points.

 

[Judge]

I took a job in a bad economy with very low wages even with a college degree just to get my foot in the door of an establishment where I knew had the chance to advance myself. It worked, but like everyone else I had to "pay my dues" in the meantime. Started nearly at the bottom as an insurance rater to quickly work my way up to underwriting. Took about 20 months.

I also recall two other college grads who both took jobs as file clerks. One became a research scientist and the other a corporate vice president many years later. If you're desperate enough, you'll do what you have to, regardless over the considerations of one's ego.

Funny though to look back and recall that being able to establish a credit history seemed more rewarding than job advancement. When I got a gasoline credit card (hard to get back then) I thought I "made it". Very different times from now I suppose. But yes, it still involved working what I thought may have been "beneath my station". Where you do what you need to do to get your life "rolling".

 

[the_tortoise]

I might take an autie/aspie specific job for rubbish money.....it depends.

If I was being asked to do the same work as anybody else but just not being paid as much, I would not do it -- that's just exploitation.

If I was being asked to do way less work than in an ordinary job, it might not be a problem for me to accept rubbish wages.

I guess it depends on whether the pay is actually reasonable for the amount of work I'd be doing (and the time I'd be expected to be doing it in -- it is quite possible it would not be worth the loss of daily-living-task-completion time if I was just standing around doing nothing at all for hours and hours, not to mention the exhaustion and stress involved in keeping settled/calm if I could find nothing to do or was not allowed to do anything but work or stand around.)

 

[Mr Allen]

I might take an autie/aspie specific job for rubbish money.....it depends.

If I was being asked to do the same work as anybody else but just not being paid as much, I would not do it -- that's just exploitation.

If I was being asked to do way less work than in an ordinary job, it might not be a problem for me to accept rubbish wages.

I guess it depends on whether the pay is actually reasonable for the amount of work I'd be doing (and the time I'd be expected to be doing it in -- it is quite possible it would not be worth the loss of daily-living-task-completion time if I was just standing around doing nothing at all for hours and hours, not to mention the exhaustion and stress involved in keeping settled/calm if I could find nothing to do or was not allowed to do anything but work or stand around.)

After over 20 years of working in the voluntary sector, if the "Powers that be" offered me some disabled specific non job for 2 quid a day, I would tell them they could sod right off.

 

[Starfire]

After over 20 years of working in the voluntary sector, if the "Powers that be" offered me some disabled specific non job for 2 quid a day, I would tell them they could sod right off.

Rich, you keep repeating that you wouldn't work for "2 quid a day" Based on an average 8 hour work day that is 25p per hour. Are you suggesting that anyone has ever offered you that type of hourly rate, because I've just had a look online and I can't find any disabled specific jobs for anywhere remotely like 25p per hour. Where are you getting these figures from? I would be really interested to see what you're basing this on.

 

[Bolletje]

Beats unemployment.

 

[Mr Allen]

Rich, you keep repeating that you wouldn't work for "2 quid a day" Based on an average 8 hour work day that is 25p per hour. Are you suggesting that anyone has ever offered you that type of hourly rate, because I've just had a look online and I can't find any disabled specific jobs for anywhere remotely like 25p per hour. Where are you getting these figures from? I would be really interested to see what you're basing this on.

About 10 years ago I did 3 days at a local Recycling Plant, the "pay" at the end of the 3 days was £6 for 3 full days' work, I was literally like, WTF?!

Apparently these kind of schemes are now illegal, and disabled people are paid a living wage, well if they can get past blatant discrimination to get a job in the first place they are, allegedly.

Hence the majority of the Remploy Factories are now closed, as they used to pay well below minimum wage to disabled employees because they were all on benefits and couldn't earn much without sanctions.

 

[pjcnet]

Definitely not if it was a pointless "job" that was created entirely just for the sake of keeping people occupied like in the example I gave in another thread about sorting bolts into types when a machine could do the same job that a large room of people do in a whole week, probably in just a few minutes. I also have to question why the bolts are all mixed up and constantly need sorting in the first place with a never ending supply, and whether exactly the same bolts are mixed up again repeatedly just to create this so called "work"? To me these type of "jobs" are a complete insult.

Also why should people on the autistic spectrum get less than the minimum legal wage and therefore not have the same rights as everyone else? If it's voluntary work that you enjoy however or even work that greatly helps others making you feel a sense of achievement and worth, then that's different, as long as you are treated respectfully in that position and not used like a "slave". The only other time it might possibly be worth working for pittance is if you are receiving useful training and worthwhile experience that has a good chance of leading onto something much better, but you have to be very careful that this is truly the case and it's not just a scam to get people to work virtually as slaves.

 

[Mr Allen]

Definitely not if it was a pointless "job" that was created entirely just for the sake of keeping people occupied like in the example I gave in another thread about sorting bolts into types when a machine could do the same job that a large room of people do in a whole week, probably in just a few minutes. I also have to question why the bolts are all mixed up and constantly need sorting in the first place with a never ending supply, and whether exactly the same bolts are mixed up again repeatedly just to create this so called "work"? To me these type of "jobs" are a complete insult.

Also why should people on the autistic spectrum get less than the minimum legal wage and therefore not have the same rights as everyone else? If it's voluntary work that you enjoy however or even work that greatly helps others making you feel a sense of achievement and worth, then that's different, as long as you are treated respectfully in that position and not used like a "slave". The only other time it might possibly be worth working for pittance is if you are receiving useful training and worthwhile experience that has a good chance of leading onto something much better, but you have to be very careful that this is truly the case and it's not just a scam to get people to work virtually as slaves.

The biggest problem is idiot Tory MPs who come out with statements such as "Disabled people aren't worth it" IMO, this gets the likes of the Tory voting Daily Fail and Telegraph readers itching to vote for them because they think everyone on benefits is a work shy slave to the "Welfare State"

 

[pjcnet]

The biggest problem is idiot Tory MPs who come out with statements such as "Disabled people aren't worth it" IMO, this gets the likes of the Tory voting Daily Fail and Telegraph readers itching to vote for them because they think everyone on benefits is a work shy slave to the "Welfare State"

Saying "Disabled people aren't worth it" is extreme prejudice and any MP should definitely lose their job for saying something like this. This is something you'd expect to hear a lot more of in the early days of the Nazi party, not today. I would say more, but I'm already on the edge of crossing the line when this isn't the Politics & Religion forum, so I'll just end by saying that it's very worrying.

 

[Starfire]

Definitely not if it was a pointless "job" that was created entirely just for the sake of keeping people occupied like in the example I gave in another thread about sorting bolts into types when a machine could do the same job that a large room of people do in a whole week, probably in just a few minutes. I also have to question why the bolts are all mixed up and constantly need sorting in the first place with a never ending supply, and whether exactly the same bolts are mixed up again repeatedly just to create this so called "work"? To me these type of "jobs" are a complete insult.

Also why should people on the autistic spectrum get less than the minimum legal wage and therefore not have the same rights as everyone else? If it's voluntary work that I enjoy however or even work that greatly helps others making me feel a sense of achievement and worth, then that's different. The only other time it might possibly be worth working for pittance is if you are receiving useful training and worthwhile experience that has a good chance of leading onto something much better, but you have to be very careful that this is truly the case and it's not just a scam to get people to work virtually as slaves.

Well said and I agree with you! However, as to the question "why should people on the autistic spectrum get less than the minimum legal wage and therefore not have the same rights as everyone else?" they don't, people on the spectrum are legally entitled to a minimum of the national minimum wage and the same rights as any other worker as far as I'm aware. If I'm incorrect I would be happy to be shown where that is wrong. Even the Remploy workers as this article shows - Remploy bidders offered wage subsidy
"The average annual pay of Remploy shopfloor workers is £13,800." That works out £265 per week, or £50 per day approximately. That was in 2012 when the article was written so would be more now. I'm not saying it's great money it's not, but it is a job for those that want to work. There unfortunately are millions of people on a low wage but would still prefer that to unemployment.

Before anyone tries to jump on me from a great height with 'that's crap money would you work for that?' The answer is yes I have, less in fact. When I returned to work after years on disability the first job I got paid £2.50 per hour BEFORE tax! That incidentally was a lot less than my benefits at the time, but everyone has to start somewhere before they can progress. If you want to know what I did for that, I stacked boxes, lots of plastic storage boxes which were delivered by the drivers to companies moving location, and put into storage.

 

[pjcnet]

Well said and I agree with you! However, as to the question "why should people on the autistic spectrum get less than the minimum legal wage and therefore not have the same rights as everyone else?" they don't, people on the spectrum are legally entitled to a minimum of the national minimum wage and the same rights as any other worker as far as I'm aware. If I'm incorrect I would be happy to be shown where that is wrong. Even the Remploy workers as this article shows - Remploy bidders offered wage subsidy
"The average annual pay of Remploy shopfloor workers is £13,800." That works out £265 per week, or £50 per day approximately. That was in 2012 when the article was written so would be more now. I'm not saying it's great money it's not, but it is a job for those that want to work. There unfortunately are millions of people on a low wage but would still prefer that to unemployment.

Before anyone tries to jump on me from a great height with 'that's crap money would you work for that?' The answer is yes I have, less in fact. When I returned to work after years on disability the first job I got paid £2.50 per hour BEFORE tax! That incidentally was a lot less than my benefits at the time, but everyone has to start somewhere before they can progress. If you want to know what I did for that, I stacked boxes, lots of plastic storage boxes which were delivered by the drivers to companies moving location, and put into storage.

In the UK at least there is a national minimum wage, however there is a couple of ways to legally work around it. One is to create a voluntary position with "generous" expenses, E.g. £5 a day which is meant to cover food and transport expenses. The other is when a government does virtually what they like and effectively forces people to work for benefits that are much lower than the minimum wage, these positions may even be classed as training opportunities. Such people don't have the same employment rights and this is when it becomes slave labour in my opinion because if they don't work they literally won't have any money what-so-ever to live on and they would therefore literally starve to death and maybe even freeze during the Winter without either help from others, E.g. charity or by committing crime. Disabled people can and are being thrown off disabled benefits in the UK too with record numbers of appeals (most are won, but people are left on very low benefits for months while going through the appeal process and some don't appeal, or don't know how to), this makes them more vulnerable to this treatment.

 

[Starfire]

In the UK at least there is a national minimum wage, however there is a couple of ways to legally work around it. One is to create a voluntary position with "generous" expenses, E.g. £5 a day which is meant to cover food and transport expenses. The other is when a government does virtually what they like and effectively forces people to work for benefits that are much lower than the minimum wage, these positions may even be classed as training opportunities. Such people don't have the same employment rights and this is when it becomes slave labour in my opinion because if they don't work they literally won't have any money what-so-ever to live on and they would therefore literally starve to death and maybe even freeze during the Winter without either help from others, E.g. charity or by committing crime. Disabled people can and are being thrown off disabled benefits in the UK too with record numbers of appeals (most are won, but people are left on very low benefits for months while going through the appeal process and some don't appeal, or don't know how to), this makes them more vulnerable to this treatment.

Thanks for that, but there is no compulsion to take a voluntary position with expenses. My wife has done that working for the citizens advice bureau and I have done that also while working for a homeless charity, but that was our choice. Benefits are not taken away if one decides they do not want to do voluntary work, it can also prove helpful too however as it can be something to pad out a lean job application form.

As for governments forcing people or making training compulsory, I'm old enough to remember the YTS days. Again however, I can't help feel that to some degree it's a case of perspective, or seeing the cup half full or half empty. My brother is also on the spectrum and he was 'encouraged' onto a YTS (youth training scheme) 350 miles away from home. He took it, and worked for British Rail for one year and received his benefits while living in a youth hostel. After the year, he was given a job and trained as a signal man in the manual lever boxes. Years later he retrained and became qualified in the modern electronic boxes too. He loved working on his own doing night shifts on the railway. Before he retired, he was extremely well paid as the older signalmen had retired and the younger people couldn't run the manual boxes. He could do both, and as he was single he was moved around different boxes to operate both systems. My brother made a lot of money and retired early. Had he had the attitude of 'I'm not going to be a slave worker for a year' or 'ripped off by the system' he would never have earned what he did or achieved what he did. He never expected to get a job, he just wanted a years experience.

I understand what you are saying about benefits being stopped but come on, no one will starve to death in the UK, it's just not going to happen. I had mine stopped at one point, I had to use church soup kitchens and the free meals given out by Hare Krishnas. It was humiliating but I did what I had to do.

The benefits of disabled people being stoped is simply not good enough even if most of the appeals are won. This is a big problem which needs sorting out I again agree with you. But we need to be realistic too and accept that not everyone who claims should be entitled to disability. I have known many people who were given disability simply because they were heroin addicts or alcoholic. This makes life so much harder unnecessarily for the genuinely sick or disabled.

 

[Mr Allen]

The Job Centres in the UK have been doing compulsory "courses" that job seekers are forced onto because if they don't turn up they get benefit sanctions, this has been happening for several years., and under a Conservative controlled DWP it'll only get worse IMO.

Also, call me cynical if you like, but the majority of these "employment courses" that people are sent on, don't actually lead to permanent employment, they are merely designed to make the long term unemployed look like they're doing something, and thus "massaging" the unemployment statistics which in turn shuts the right wing press up.

 

[Gracey]

Hmmm?
Nope.

If I do the job required, I want paying the going rate.
No disability nonsense, no loopholes, no getting shafted or devil’s in the details.
I may work harder and faster than most, I can’t see the point in coasting, My work ethic is great (if I keep my mouth shut)
I don’t need to stop and gossip with colleagues whilst customers are waiting for assistance. I want to get the job done.
I expect minimum wage at the very, very least. (Someone is getting a bargain at that rate)
(Hair flick in the sunlight) “I’m worth it”