Why is there so much confusion about the Bible and Christianity?

[Mary Lyn]

This has been the problem since the Reformation, that every believer thinks that he can interpret scripture himself, but he does not have the qualifications to do it unless he has been gifted as SageRose says.

The proof that so many have not been gifted is exactly as we see - thousands of denominations when at the beginning, in the upper room, they were of one accord.

The disciples had at that point been 'breathed upon' and it is obvious that many many have not been breathed upon. Whatever you like to call this.

 

[SageRose]

Sorry - I skipped over this one. I didn't say I take bits. I said I look at the points they've made (as a whole). I'm saying, just because my preacher said such and such, doesn't make it infallible, and I'm afraid that many people count on what they hear others say. "The Pope decided it's okay now, so I believe it." I don't think so. Or disagreements between individuals, My preacher says this but your preacher said that - part of the problem lies in just that. People read influenced by what they've already been told it means and put too much trust in someone with a title - he's the preacher, he must know. No. Read it and study it and know yourself so you will not become the blind being lead by the blind.

I agree on that. If we relied on anyone who claims to hold the truth, we'd be lost by now. But the thing I emphasize on, is that how do we know we interpret what we read correctly?
If the saints, the apostles and the prophets were capable of agreeing in common interpretations and we humans disagree even on basic stuff, then what does that show for us?

''stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

"the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Timothy 2:2).

The word tradition means, literally, "to hand down."

''Because of the depth of the Scriptures, they are not interpreted in the same sense by everyone. One understands a text to mean one thing, and another thinks it means another. Sometimes it seems there are as many interpretations as there are interpreters.... Consequently, because of the intricacies of all these heresies and incorrect doctrines, we must formulate our understanding of the writings of the Apostles and prophets in harmony with the standards of ecclesiastical and orthodox interpretation. (From The Commentaries, chapter 2, paraphrased by Fr. Jack N. Sparks).

Aside from the fact that this passage is so relevant to our contemporary scene it could have been written yesterday, Saint Vincent's work is vitally important because it so perfectly summarizes the need for tradition in the earlier period of the Church-earlier that is, even than Saint Vincent. It was because of the countless heresies seeking to pervert the Scriptures that Holy Tradition became so important!''

 

[Ginseng]

By walking in the Spirit. We walk with God in step with Him. We don't go our own way. We check ourselves through scripture. If we are walking in Love we have fulfilled the whole commandments. We don't have to worry who is right. We concern ourselves with Who we are following. The godly will recognize each other.

 

[Mary Lyn]

This is fair enough if we just quietly obey what we understand, however, how many do that lol Every man has his own interpretation and even worse when he starts to teach others.

The thing that is required for interpretation, is to be in Christ, to be one with Him and therefore to have His nature imprted in us. That is to say, we are holy as He is holy. THEN we can teach like the Fathers and Apostles.

 

[Ginseng]

I think we probably agree on most things. I do believe that God's perfect plan is for us to walk in Him and be led by him. But dying to self is the part we don't want to let go of. When I read the scripture that Jesus said, "Never the less, not my will buy my Father's" I understood it is my will that I need to let go of and follow God's will. If we truly do that we don't need to be worrying about what others are doing. If they want to discuss why we do what we do that is great. But unless they are walking in obvious sin then that is between them and their maker. But if they are in sin we do need to confront them because we love them and only out of love for them. Not harsh condemnation because sins are common to all of us. We can all fall in to some type of deception so easily. I know I can anyway.

 

[SageRose]

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By walking in the Spirit. We walk with God in step with Him. We don't go our own way. We check ourselves through scripture. If we are walking in Love we have fulfilled the whole commandments. We don't have to worry who is right. We concern ourselves with Who we are following. The godly will recognize each other.

Agreed. And in order to fulfill all the commandments, we must also be united in One truth. One truth cannot be achieved when each person interprets things differently.
The early Christians walked in unity just like the Apostles taught them. That is because they all believed in one truth.
Modern Christians walk in division because each of them explains the Bible in their own way. That alone is enough proof for the problem that obviously exists among Christians today. That said, I'm sure we all want the best for us and our faith so no hard feelings among us anyway.

 

[Pats]

1st Corinthians 3:4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?
I look at this as separations, which Paul is warning them about. It's going to be there because we are all human. We have to have faith and trust and, most important of all, LOVE. If we love we will not want to become a stumbling block to others and won't stir up decension. By human nature, no 2 people will agree on everything. We can't allow that to separate us.

 

[china autie]

Very interesting discussion. My own non-beliefs are closer to agnostic atheism so I will not be able to engage with you on this one, but I very much do like to read what all of you are writing.

 

[Pats]

I think we probably agree on most things. I do believe that God's perfect plan is for us to walk in Him and be led by him. But dying to self is the part we don't want to let go of. When I read the scripture that Jesus said, "Never the less, not my will buy my Father's" I understood it is my will that I need to let go of and follow God's will. If we truly do that we don't need to be worrying about what others are doing. If they want to discuss why we do what we do that is great. But unless they are walking in obvious sin then that is between them and their maker. But if they are in sin we do need to confront them because we love them and only out of love for them. Not harsh condemnation because sins are common to all of us. We can all fall in to some type of deception so easily. I know I can anyway.

You know, the dying to ourself part is interesting in itself. If you look at the fruits of the spirit, is it not everything that goes against our human nature? Would we by nature, forgive? No, we would want to hold a grudge. Our human nature is more in tune with the world - selfishness, jealousy, envy, etc, etc. Just to provoke thought.

 

[Autistamatic]

From an outsider's perspective, the debate over the meaning of words and the reverence for "scripture" appears quite bizarre. The broader message of the Bible is a good one and is basically the same as the "Bill & Ted" future:

"Be Excellent to Eachother"

Be kind, be generous, be tolerant, don't fight, don't steal, be respectful, don't try to be rich, be humble, be honest, be trustworthy. All fine ideals to live your life by. All this seeking deeper meaning in dissecting every passage and every word seems a waste of time and a distraction from the broader message.
There seems little point in seeking deeper meaning when the BIG message is written throughout the book and is one most of the world seems incapable of living by as it is.
I'd much rather see all Christians drop the schisms and just agree for once. You all worship the same God and the same prophet/son of that God so why all the disagreements? Such disagreements seem to me to be against the very spirit of what Christianity is supposed to stand for.
You all worship one God so why is it so hard to agree on one message?

 

[SageRose]

1st Corinthians 3:4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?
I look at this as separations, which Paul is warning them about. It's going to be there because we are all human. We have to have faith and trust and, most important of all, LOVE. If we love we will not want to become a stumbling block to others and won't stir up decension. By human nature, no 2 people will agree on everything. We can't allow that to separate us.

Yes that is why I prefer the interpretations of God-gifted figures such as saints and the church fathers instead of how each of us looks at the verses. We are seperated through the division caused by our own errors. The early Christians were not 'seperated'. And there was a reason for that. Only modern Christians are seperated and one cannot ignore the gigantic problem that Christianity is facing today. Nor will that problem ever be solved if each person has his/her own teachings about the same thing. That's my point.

Anyway this has been a very nice discussion nontheless. Thank you all for your comments.

 

[SageRose]

From an outsider's perspective, the debate over the meaning of words and the reverence for "scripture" appears quite bizarre. The broader message of the Bible is a good one and is basically the same as the "Bill & Ted" future:

"Be Excellent to Eachother"

Be kind, be generous, be tolerant, don't fight, don't steal, be respectful, don't try to be rich, be humble, be honest, be trustworthy. All fine ideals to live your life by. All this seeking deeper meaning in dissecting every passage and every word seems a waste of time and a distraction from the broader message.
There seems little point in seeking deeper meaning when the BIG message is written throughout the book and is one most of the world seems incapable of living by as it is.
I'd much rather see all Christians drop the schisms and just agree for once. You all worship the same God and the same prophet/son of that God so why all the disagreements? Such disagreements seem to me to be against the very spirit of what Christianity is supposed to stand for.
You all worship one God so why is it so hard to agree on one message?

It is hard to agree on one message because the message is in the Bible that each Christian explains in a different way. And it contains a lot more than just loving each other.

 

[Ginseng]

No they did not. They were very divided. Paul was always addressing their divisions and discord.

The early Christians walked in unity just like the Apostles taught them. That is because they all believed in one truth.

 

[SageRose]

No they did not. They were very divided. Paul was always addressing their divisions and discord.

They were united and when heresies attempted to infiltrate them the Apostles would warn them off of them. That is why the Church survived for so long. Heresies existed from an early point but the Christians-in their majority- stuck by the same truth taught to them by the Apostles. Some groups of them did of course get carried away (that's why heresies always existed), but the majority would stick to the one truth taught to them.

 

[Ginseng]

That is why we focus on Jesus and keep our eyes on him and not any distractions. And the distractions are everywhere, many distractions are even religious. We think we are focusing on a good thing, but we need to focus on God.

It is hard to agree on one message because the message is in the Bible that each Christian explains in a different way. And it contains a lot more than just loving each other.

 

[Pats]

From an outsider's perspective, the debate over the meaning of words and the reverence for "scripture" appears quite bizarre. The broader message of the Bible is a good one and is basically the same as the "Bill & Ted" future:

"Be Excellent to Eachother"

Be kind, be generous, be tolerant, don't fight, don't steal, be respectful, don't try to be rich, be humble, be honest, be trustworthy. All fine ideals to live your life by. All this seeking deeper meaning in dissecting every passage and every word seems a waste of time and a distraction from the broader message.
There seems little point in seeking deeper meaning when the BIG message is written throughout the book and is one most of the world seems incapable of living by as it is.
I'd much rather see all Christians drop the schisms and just agree for once. You all worship the same God and the same prophet/son of that God so why all the disagreements? Such disagreements seem to me to be against the very spirit of what Christianity is supposed to stand for.
You all worship one God so why is it so hard to agree on one message?

I can't answer for all in this conversation, but to me, it was more discussion and searching than disagreeing.
You can provoke other thoughts and ideas about other things, why not the same with scripture?

 

[SageRose]

Ginseng I think I've made my point about this. Like I said, I trust God-gifted people for their God-inspired interpretations, things they all agreed on. Let's just agree to disagree on this because we could both go on and on forever about it

 

[Autistamatic]

It is hard to agree on one message because the message is in the Bible that each Christian explains in a different way. And it contains a lot more than just loving each other.

But surely that's the only one that matters? Arguing over minutiae and splitting into ever diminishing congregations seems contrary to that overarching message.