Why do I keep getting these messages?

[Misty Avich]

I keep getting this when I open my music player app. When I tap "manage options" this comes up:

I can't disagree to it or get away from it unless I close the app, go into settings then apps and force close the app there, then when I return to the app the message has gone.

I've never consented to it, because it seems dodgy to me. Not only am I getting it on music player, I'm also getting it on one of my games apps now. My husband is getting the same on his phone.

Does anyone know what this is and why? Is it some loser lowlife trying to hack into our phones? Google doesn't seem to provide any answers, as usual.

 

[Levitator]

In theory, and if the law still held any sway, a combined team of lawyers and engineers could tell you what that blurb means after studying the TOS and the privacy agreement for about a week. And then the court would give the judgment to whoever has more money and connections. So, I just basically say "grant", and assume that people can see what I'm doing on the computer. That stuff's totally illusory, and only people with an excess of time and resources can understand it, and then it's not going to be enforced fairly anyway.

 

[VictorR]

Software and apps take time and money to develop and build.

As such, most of them cost money, whether up front, or via subscription.

There are a small number that don't cost money - these are usually:

1. Freeware (rare - someone is giving something away free, no strings attached)
2. Demo (where you get certain features and/or a trial period with the hope that you'll upgrade to the regular paid version)
3. Indirect payment

#3 traditionally would involve ads being shown, but may also involve collecting and selling personal data.

And here, it looks like you're using an app where the bargain is you get use of the app in exchange for ads and/or data. There's no option for disagreeing because that is the bargain - i.e. if you don't wish to partake in the trade, then stop using and uninstall the app.

 

[Levitator]

Software and apps take time and money to develop and build.

As such, most of them cost money, whether up front, or via subscription.

There are a small number that don't cost money - these are usually:

1. Freeware (rare - someone is giving something away free, no strings attached)
2. Demo (where you get certain features and/or a trial period with the hope that you'll upgrade to the regular paid version)
3. Indirect payment

#3 traditionally would involve ads being shown, but may also involve collecting and selling personal data.

And here, it looks like you're using an app where the bargain is you get use of the app in exchange for ads and/or data. There's no option for disagreeing because that is the bargain - i.e. if you don't wish to partake in the trade, then stop using and uninstall the app.

What if apps took a negative amount of time to build? So, if it took -2 weeks to build an app for a purpose, then you would receive the app two weeks in advance, and that would serve as warning that you were going to need it. Why didn't anyone think of this previously? Now, I want to learn about imaginary numbers so that I can make stupid comments about those, as well.

 

[Misty Avich]

I've always used those apps, for a few years now, on my old phone and my current phone. The message has only just started coming up recently. There is no limited time with these apps, and I am not going to uninstall.

 

[Levitator]

Devs add features with updates all the time, and it seems they've decided they want permission to store data on the local device. The blurb suggests it's stuff like cookies, which are often used to identify you as the same person, or to keep state data, so that the app picks up where it left off. But, like I've said, I've seen enough stuff to be really cynical towards any certainty as to what those prompts really end up meaning. They want you to feel like you have control, but whether you actually do is a different question, because they backdoor stuff technically and legally all the time. What does your security count for each time a Windows app crashes and sends a crash dump to some unknown recpient for "analysis"? You get the idea.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm not very tech savvy at all. You might have to explain it to me like I'm 5.

 

[Hypnalis]

"Free" apps make money by:
* Pushing advertising in the app
* Selling information about you

The infrastructure for doing this is quite large and very complex.

What you know from that is those pix is that at least 120 different companies would have direct access to personal data pulled from your phone.

There's a lot more information about you out there than you think. It's impossible to know what's been gathered, how widely it's shared, and how it's being used. It's impossible to erase it.

This might not matter - but check out China's surveillance and scoring system:

Social Credit System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US could do a lot of that now, based on phone data. I don't think it has the camera systems in the cities to fully implement what China is currently building.

The US probably isn't doing this, and might never do it, but it has the electronic capability in place and in use via the NSA.

You can't hide (or rather, only full-time criminals can hide, which is why this is so insane).
To some extent you can protect yourself from ads and commercial data capture and sharing by never allowing apps to gather data. That doesn't stop "information leakage", but it reduces it.

BTW - this kind of data capture and reselling has been going on for a long time. Smartphones increased it a lot because they leak so much personal information.
But it's literally too late to get concerned about it - the time to act is long past. It needed to be addressed at some point between the 1980's and 2000. 9/11 2001 made it impossible in the US and most of the rest of the world.

Germany held out for a while because they know the risks (from the surveillance state in East Germany).

 

[MNAus]

Hi there.

So these are permissions requests. Some apps need access to certain data from your phone to work. For example, a maps app works much better if it knows where you are, a health app works better if it has access to fitness sensors, etc.. These messages are individual apps asking if the can do certain things (check where you are, see your phone number, etc).

It can be difficult to know whether they genuinely need these permissions or not. Sometimes it will be obvious, other times less so. If you're in doubt, or don't trust the app, the best option is to deny permission. But bear in mind this might mean you can't use the app. I'm not that familiar with Apple, but for Android phones we've had this for quite a while. It might be that a recent update has brough this level of permissions requesting to Apple phones.

In the case of the permissions requests you've shown us, this appears to just be requesting permission to sell your details to a couple of hundred other companies. I'd be looking to decline, but that might mean you lose access to a "free" product. But then again, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Misty Avich]

Well if it's definitely harmless then I'll just consent. But I thought it was malware or something trying to give my phone a dangerous virus that will cost me to get it repaired. I get so paranoid.

 

[Hypnalis]

If you don't mind broadcasting personal information it's harmless.

BTW that doesn't prove the app itself is harmless.
But what you posted is about the app pulling information from your phone.

 

[Misty Avich]

If you don't mind broadcasting personal information it's harmless.

BTW that doesn't prove the app itself is harmless.
But what you posted is about the app pulling information from your phone.

People mentioned in this thread that all apps use your personal information and sell it unless you pay for it. There isn't an actual option to pay for the music player app, it's just an MP3 app to store downloaded music on. But I'm also getting this same message on a game that I play. These messages are recent and I've never seen them before on any phones that I've ever had.

So I'm asking, will it make any difference to my life if I consent, or if I consent will my phone become infected with malware or let some pervert have access to my camera thing so they can see everything I do through my phone or something like that?

 

[Hypnalis]

@Misty Avich

This doesn't affect the risk of malware.

As to why it's happening: I only use Android, so this doesn't apply to Apple ...

... newer standards for Apps and for phones put a bit more control into the hands of users.
So now (but far too late):
* The Apps are saying something about the information they steal and sell on.
* Android removes permissions for Apps that aren't being used

It wouldn't surprise me if the same things were present on Apple phones.

I can't tell you you're safe in general.
But you're as safe as every other casual user. Most people are satisfied with that.

 

[UFO]

In other words:

Most likely result is that third party advertisers get better information about what web pages and other applications you use (and in this case, what kind of music you listen), then they form a profile of you, and build a more focused advertisements for you. Ie. they just try to guess what they can do to make you spend more money...

It is not that they can get to your banking data or passwords to other applications or web pages, as operating systems tend to have relatively good protections against applications gathering any other data than what belongs to them. After all, that application don't request permissions to your contacts, emails or such.

 

[Hypnalis]

@UFO

Apps can read almost any data on your phone that's been put there by any app.
If the "contract" says they can read all data on your phone, they're allowed to do it.

You're actually just betting that they won't.

Which is true for some apps, but not for all. And only one needs to take something you'd prefer to keep private and sell it on. For example, the only reason "highly personal" photos aren't captured and sold on is because there are so many people who share that kind of content free or via legal commercial sites that there's no money in it.

It's possible for an app to ask for limited access, and it's possible for a suitably framed lesser request in the "must accept" contract to be enforced. But many apps don't do this. Most "act" as though the possibility doesn't exist..

That doesn't exactly mean that when they ask for "everything" they'll misuse it. It could be laziness, because it's a bit easier for the coders to be unconstrained. But not a lot easier.

Something else that's 100% possible is giving users control over which components can access what data, with a nice App-like interface to manage it in a simple way. It isn't done because (a) hardly anyone actually cares, and (b) nobody on the "information thieves" side wants it.

Imagine this: There's a special data store on your phone for personal information you don't mind sharing.
You can also specify access rules for contacts, a special "public" photos storage area, etc
That's all Apps can get access to unless you explicitly specify otherwise.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of free apps that are far more complex than this. From an operating system perspective it's trivial.

You'll know the theft has stopped when something like that is a standard smartphone OS feature.

BTW you can't blame the thieves. This is how they make money, and while it's immoral, it qualifies as "less bad than selling mild recreational substances", so clearly society as a whole has no right to criticize it on moral grounds. And users seem to prefer denial to privacy.

Denying the risks isn't wise though.

 

[UFO]

@Hypnalis

We were focusing on different things. I didn't deny that they can have file access to other app's files. I fully agree that in your message. I just wanted to say that in this case odds are that data is used for marketing purposes without any outright illegal aims.

About data that one really, really don't want to be accessed, I just meant to say that passwords etc. (if properly implemented) are stored using OS specific services that don't give access to any other apps using permissions. Bugs, rooting and other vulnerabilities being still a possible issue.

 

[Misty Avich]

I've consented to it. After reading the replies in this thread, the message seems more genuine than malicious. I don't know why I thought it was malicious in the first place. I just get so paranoid of these things because it's hard to know what's genuine and what's a hack. Some hacks can seem genuine, while some genuine messages can seem like hacks.

 

[UFO]

You were right to ask. I don't really understand why people take risks only because they think that something is too stupid to ask about.

 

[Misty Avich]

You were right to ask. I don't really understand why people take risks only because they think that something is too stupid to ask about.

I feel comfortable asking things like this on this forum because I know people are more likely to answer my question compassionately rather than criticise me.

Thanks guys (and girls)!