What song is the soundtrack to your life?

[The Notorious LFC]

Talking to a beat, or talking over music isn't quite the same as rapping because the way the syllables get used, there's a sorta push-pull to the cadence that defines it, or at least did for a period. I think patter delivery and the sort of delivery in those songs has influenced emcees at times, and I believe we might be approaching a point where those start to be viewed as the same skill, but I don't quite think we're there yet.

 

[AprilR]

I love that song (Hoppipolla)
This song always reminds me of my childhood:

 

[The Notorious LFC]

I really like that song. When I first saw him I thought it was going to be something like Lil Xan because of the face tattoos, but it was so much better and more adult to me. Then all of a sudden the facial tattoos were gone.

Yeah, he's parodying that stuff in the beginning, he's a lot older then that generation; he had an album out in '94. Basically, he's had 'other issues' that have undermined his ability to profit from his ability (as he details) xD

 

[Ken S.]

 

[Jumpback]

I'm gonna nope that.

Look into the Harlem Renaissance and the beat generation (and their forebears) for the poetry's style to be established, look to soul and funk records with spoken parts for the delivery. Rapping in the context of hip-hop had already emerged by then. Look up Gil Scott-Heron, he had stuff that's much more directly a precursor to hip-hop in the late '60s. He's the biggest one of many, for what it's worth.

That's not to suggest that the elements that make hip-hop haven't been shown up in other genres. Specifically patter songs and other similar traditions in both opera and folk music, but with that said, there's elements that make rapping in hip-hop unique and that stuff often gets overlooked. Dense rhymes are fun, but wordplay and punchlines and setups are mostly what gets attention in battles.

I'm not suggesting English/American/Scottish/Irish/etc traditions weren't also influences just that most of the influences are missing the two crucial pieces, that tendency towards setups and punchlines and the cadence (although, that cadence is seeming to become less common as crooners take over, i don't mean people who literally croon but instead people who use a softer delivery that doesn't incorporate the cadence typical of golden era hip-hop.

I get what you are saying even though you are over my head on the specifics and technicals. Early blues also had a lot of tendency towards rap too. Then there is Berry White who tended to talk maybe even just because his voice sounds cool. I really like “Doing it to Death” by James Brown

I guess I was more talking about the timing of things. Like in 75/76 the “Convoy” song is a #1 hit, so it would have been difficult to miss. So maybe black kids and DJs are kind of thinking to themselves, “hell, white guy is getting rich talking in a cool way over music, I can do that”.

 

[Jumpback]

Talking to a beat, or talking over music isn't quite the same as rapping because the way the syllables get used, there's a sorta push-pull to the cadence that defines it, or at least did for a period. I think patter delivery and the sort of delivery in those songs has influenced emcees at times, and I believe we might be approaching a point where those start to be viewed as the same skill, but I don't quite think we're there yet.

I get what you are saying even though you are over my head. I think we can agree that rap was never taken seriously as an art form until maybe the 80s or something. It was always sort of a half novelty thing before then or something.

I just think that there is this bizarre social thing where the general society has disapproved of things because they are black, but intellectuals or newspaper people sort of whitewash all white influences because they are highly liberal and don’t really like white conservatives

Like in the early history of rock and roll, Chuck Berry was seriously influenced by country music, despite being black. He would go to black clubs and play country music. But then Elvis Presley, who was white, tended to be largely influenced by black music

Things end up strange in the US with it’s history.

 

[Jumpback]

Talking to a beat, or talking over music isn't quite the same as rapping because the way the syllables get used, there's a sorta push-pull to the cadence that defines it, or at least did for a period. I think patter delivery and the sort of delivery in those songs has influenced emcees at times, and I believe we might be approaching a point where those start to be viewed as the same skill, but I don't quite think we're there yet.

I read that Chuck Berry based his first hit “maybelline” on a version of a county song he knew. And Chuck Berry was black. This was one of the very first (probably the second) popular rock and roll songs because it came out in 1954.

That’s kind of the thing I was trying to point out. Like there always seems to have been this back and forth between poor or working class white music and poor or working class black music up until the 1980s, but it only rarely ever seems to get acknowledged by either the conservative or liberal side

I don’t have the technical understanding to see how these two songs are similar, but I like both of them. They both seem to be somewhat towards what we would describe today as rap

 

[Tom]

 

[Creep]

Season of the Witch by Donovan

 

[The Notorious LFC]

I read that Chuck Berry based his first hit “maybelline” on a version of a county song he knew. And Chuck Berry was black. This was one of the very first (probably the second) popular rock and roll songs because it came out in 1954.

That’s kind of the thing I was trying to point out. Like there always seems to have been this back and forth between poor or working class white music and poor or working class black music up until the 1980s, but it only rarely ever seems to get acknowledged by either the conservative or liberal side

I don’t have the technical understanding to see how these two songs are similar, but I like both of them. They both seem to be somewhat towards what we would describe today as rap

I'm running late for work so I can't go into detail, but I don't believe that white American artists were a substantial influence to early hip-hop, even if they might have been among the influences. Basically, it's just a matter of pop culture influences tending to run out of that community more than in to it, like a roast in a pan. Yes, the roast absorbs some moisture from the pan, but the pan gains more fluid from the roast than the roast gains from the pan.

But, I'm metis and Canadian and not deeply invested in the ethnic origins of a genre, I just like wordplay and weaving together bars.

For what it worth, a lot of the 'touchiness' in some circles over influences is just due to the legacy of black and indigenous contributors to culture sometimes being overlooked or ignored. It might take awhile before trust is re-established on those matters, but that's another rant.

 

[Jumpback]

I'm running late for work so I can't go into detail, but I don't believe that white American artists were a substantial influence to early hip-hop, even if they might have been among the influences. Basically, it's just a matter of pop culture influences tending to run out of that community more than in to it, like a roast in a pan. Yes, the roast absorbs some moisture from the pan, but the pan gains more fluid from the roast than the roast gains from the pan.

But, I'm metis and Canadian and not deeply invested in the ethnic origins of a genre, I just like wordplay and weaving together bars.

For what it worth, a lot of the 'touchiness' in some circles over influences is just due to the legacy of black and indigenous contributors to culture sometimes being overlooked or ignored. It might take awhile before trust is re-established on those matters, but that's another rant.

Look at this quote, I know it sounds unlikely that a white country singer was the most popular blues singer of the late 20s and early 30s and hewas Howlin’ Wolf’s childhood idol, but Rodgers was seriously a good blues musician, he just had a tendency to do this strange yodel thing. But then if you listen to “Smokestack Lightnin’“ by Howlin Wolf you can see the influence of this country yodel thing

I agree with a lot of what you say, but the thing is that most college professors and so on in the US are very liberal and they tend to dislike or look down upon or even ridicule more rural white American things so they just ignore things like this because they think these dipshit republican rural white people are a bunch of dangerous idiots. So the hate really does go both ways

But if you listen to Rodgers and Howlin Wolf you can hear the influence of Jimmie Rodgers, plus Howlin Wolf just said that Rodgers was his childhood idol

Jimmie Rodgers (country singer) - Wikipedia

“Not just a country artist, Rodgers was one of the biggest stars of American music between 1927 and 1933, arguably doing more to popularize blues than any other performer of his time.[22] The 2009 book Meeting Jimmie Rodgers: How America's Original Roots Music Hero Changed the Pop Sounds of a Century tracks Rodgers influence through a broad range of musical genres. He was influential to Ozark poet Frank Stanford, who composed a series of "blue yodel" poems, and a number of later blues artists, including Muddy Waters, Big Bill Broonzy,[24] and Howlin' Wolf (Chester Arthur Burnett). Rodgers was Burnett's childhood idol. When he tried to emulate Rodgers's yodel his efforts sounded more like a growl or a howl. "I couldn't do no yodelin'," Barry Gifford quoted him as saying in Rolling Stone, "so I turned to howlin'. And it's done me just fine."”

 

[The Notorious LFC]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but the thing is that most college professors and so on in the US are very liberal and they tend to dislike or look down upon or even ridicule more rural white American things so they just ignore things like this because they think these dipshit republican rural white people are a bunch of dangerous idiots. So the hate really does go both ways

For what it's worth, I've never discussed any of this with any college professors, I barely got through high school. I'd agree that there is a tendency for various portions of the 'under-classes' to be hostile towards each while also still basically being basted in the same cultural influences. Let's face it, keeping poor people at each other's throats is a good way to keep us distracted from systemic issues.

Generally speaking, English, Scottish and Irish influences on western contemporary popular music are massive, as are West African influences. It's hard to untangle where those influence were introduced because we're already two or three dozen generations past when the mixing occurred and even the genres that tend to get claimed by one group or another are influenced by the whole range of influences. In the 90s media talked a lot about 'rap rock' for example but missed that groups like Onyx and Cypress Hill were like the mirror image of that, they had the aggression of hard rock even if they didn't sound like hard rock.

Basically, the segregationist mindset led to white artists performing music similar to what black artists performed being viewed as separate, and same in reverse so that all of these genres which would spring up that were just 'how those folks play these folks music'. Rockabilly was literally just rock 'n' roll performed by hillbillies, as an example.

I have a big appreciation for 'vernacular culture', whether it's music, dialects, whatever. My attitude towards people who speak with vernacular dialects shifted all at once, so whether it's Newfies or Cockneys, or folks with hillbilly accents or rural southern accents or AAVE accents, I started to appreciate them all around the same era (14-15 or so). Starting to appreciate non-standard dialects played a huge role in getting hip-hop, let's face it, it's hard to follow if you're not familiar with the slang, jargon and the whole rest of the lexicon.

 

[Tom]

I can't speak for society and culture, but this song was probably the most important musical influence to me personally. My live performance with 2 other kindergarten vocalists was and still is the entire body of my musical works.

 

[Jumpback]

For what it's worth, I've never discussed any of this with any college professors, I barely got through high school. I'd agree that there is a tendency for various portions of the 'under-classes' to be hostile towards each while also still basically being basted in the same cultural influences. Let's face it, keeping poor people at each other's throats is a good way to keep us distracted from systemic issues.

Generally speaking, English, Scottish and Irish influences on western contemporary popular music are massive, as are West African influences. It's hard to untangle where those influence were introduced because we're already two or three dozen generations past when the mixing occurred and even the genres that tend to get claimed by one group or another are influenced by the whole range of influences. In the 90s media talked a lot about 'rap rock' for example but missed that groups like Onyx and Cypress Hill were like the mirror image of that, they had the aggression of hard rock even if they didn't sound like hard rock.

Basically, the segregationist mindset led to white artists performing music similar to what black artists performed being viewed as separate, and same in reverse so that all of these genres which would spring up that were just 'how those folks play these folks music'. Rockabilly was literally just rock 'n' roll performed by hillbillies, as an example.

I have a big appreciation for 'vernacular culture', whether it's music, dialects, whatever. My attitude towards people who speak with vernacular dialects shifted all at once, so whether it's Newfies or Cockneys, or folks with hillbilly accents or rural southern accents or AAVE accents, I started to appreciate them all around the same era (14-15 or so). Starting to appreciate non-standard dialects played a huge role in getting hip-hop, let's face it, it's hard to follow if you're not familiar with the slang, jargon and the whole rest of the lexicon.

Just as a short thing, my only long term friend and the only person whose opinions I consistently take seriously is a high school dropout. But I almost don’t even care what PhDs say about some things because I feel llke they can’t even follow me about some things.

I kind of honestly just don’t give two shits about status or degrees or social standing. If someone wants to have an actual intelligent conversation with disagreement like you and I are having, I feel respect for whoever I am talking to. But if someone wants to pull out ******** idiocy about how they are the expert and I should just agree because I am less than I feel pissed off.

 

[menander]

Wow . I have not heard that in a long time. powerful song.

 

[The Notorious LFC]

This one has really stuck with me since... uhh... stuff happened...

This sort of stuff seems to directly prod my heart.

 

[Jumpback]

This one has really stuck with me since... uhh... stuff happened...

This sort of stuff seems to directly prod my heart.

I like this song too, maybe partially because I feel like there are some hardcore influences from this pixies song which I identify with

 

[The Notorious LFC]

I like this song too, some serious pixies influence

Pixies are great. Pixies were sort of peripheral to that era's post-hardcore and Old Gray sort of represent the so-called 'emo revival' sound, which was basically an imitation of one of the subgenres of late 80s/90s era (aka, that era) post-hardcore. If you know Moss Icon or Indian Summer or I Hate Myself, that's basically the sound they were imitating.

 

[Jenisautistic]

also this one it’s sad but empowering and true in many ways

 

[Creep]

I Saw the Light by Todd Rungren