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Sensitive Topic What do you think about those who want to "cure" us?

I'm going to attempt to write this on a tiny phone screen. Sorry in advance for any typos and possible rambling. :)

You're using treatment for access/therapy, and the words aren't interchangeable. If there are steps to take that make it so we can access the world, like tablets to reduce anxiety or cognitive behavioural therapy, etc., then I use those to help me. Treatment suggests disease and cure, therapies can help us. Sorry if I'm being too pedantic to be understood, I think it's a communication issue. :)

I don't understand what is different between therapy and a pill (or whatever physical form a treatment might take).

I mention the gut medicine as an imaginary future cure, because there is evidence of gut imbalances in autism, and there are many neurons in the gut.

(It's a stretch, but who knows what form a treatment could take.)

If there were a pill that contained microorganisms that could miraculously get rid of the worst aspects of ASD, people wouldn't like that? I think that people should fully support research into these kinds of technologies. I would definitely take a treatment like that without hesitation. I don't see it as a personal attack against my fundamental character. It's more likely that getting rid of the worst aspects of this condition would allow me to fully develop my fundamental character.

It's hard to say if it is or isn't the case for you not knowing what you struggle with. I struggle with quite a few things, am often not 'high functioning' and my issues are all due to how society is constructed.

I don't blame society for all of my problems, just some of them. I would still have many if them even if society were different.
 
I understand where you are coming from better now, 113 - thanks for clarifying. I guess a lot of these kind of discussions come back to a whole chicken and egg theory, in a way? Like which came first, did autism make me who I am or would I be fundamentally different without it. I would take a temporary pill out of curiosity, if it could be eight hours like an acid trip :p and I could 'come back down' out of NT land into 'my own land' to see what I could learn from it. :)
 
I also ;don't blame society for all of my problems', by any stretch of the imagination, but I do subscribe to the social model of disability. Two different things. :)
 
Somebody calling you broken, busted, and past your warranty for using that tool is another matter.

I think the two issues should be separated.

I do consider myself to be partly damaged (sorry), but I don't think that I am any less of a human being than someone who doesn't have my specific limitations. I don't tolerate being looked down on. There can be something wrong with me without my being inferior. I don't feel less capable of achieving something interesting in life if I am assisted in certain ways.

For me, all of that is completely separate than finding a treatment.
 
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Here is some info about research that is being done in the area I mentioned. "Cure" doesn't have to mean something that violates sense of self like a lobotomy.
 
Here is some info about research that is being done in the area I mentioned. "Cure" doesn't have to mean something that violates sense of self like a lobotomy.

Stuff like that bothers me. Because 'fecal transplants' are superior to being autistic. Yeah, ick. I'm sorry you feel damaged. Like I said before, without you exposing all your issues, which you needn't ever do anywhere, it's hard for me to understand. I trust you know yourself better than anyone else.
 
Stuff like that bothers me. Because 'fecal transplants' are superior to being autistic. Yeah, ick.

Once they figure out which bacteria are needed, they can grow them in a lab. It needs more research. This is cutting edge science.
 
Here is some info about research that is being done in the area I mentioned. "Cure" doesn't have to mean something that violates sense of self like a lobotomy.
I fought gut sickness all my life and would have loved to get rid of it if possible.
There is supposed to be evidence of intestinal bacterial chemistry affecting the brain as it crosses the blood/brain barrier,so the article made sense to me. :)
 
I think the two issues should be separated.

I do consider myself to be partly damaged (sorry), but I don't think that I am any less of a human being than someone who doesn't have my specific limitations. I don't tolerate being looked down on. There can be something wrong with me without my being inferior. I don't feel less capable of achieving something interesting in life if I am assisted in certain ways.

For me, all of that is completely separate than finding a treatment.
No worries. I consider my hormonal thing a damage. :) But even partly damaged isn't bad. Partly damaged still has potential. It's when anybody acts like we're completely, absolutely beyond help and use just because we're a little off kilter that it grinds my gears.
 
I came across this 2004 research paper by Michelle Dawson about Ethics in the Autism ABA industry. I know it's a bit old, but I thought it'd be worth putting up here because, apart from being an interesting read, I think it also illustrates why some of us feel so skittish about the notion of a cure.

It is from 2004 and I'd like to hope that in those 11 years a lot has changed already, but it does give some insight in the history of this part of the discussion, of where we come from.

THE MISBEHAVIOUR OF BEHAVIOURISTS: Ethical Challenges to the Autism-ABA Industry, by Michelle Dawson

CONCLUSION: THE RIGHT TO EFFECTIVE ETHICS

Behaviourists are far from the only non-autistics to denigrate and exclude autistics in order to satisfy their needs. Autism-ABA has only ineffectually been challenged by scientists promoting different autism theories and treatments. This is because they cannot pose the ethical challenges representing the strongest criticisms against autism-ABA, being vulnerable to these challenges themselves. Cognitive scientists using expensive technology for autism cliché-verification, or throwing mentally-retarded autistics overboard because they are inconvenient to their theories, would be unlikely to scrutinize behaviourists in ways they have not scrutinized themselves. Certainly, the anti-vaccination, toxic metals, Defeat Autism Now overlapping factions have exceeded in their rhetoric the abuses of the behaviourists.

But behaviourists have a greater responsibility than these other scientists, or anyone else working in autism. They have used the words "scientifically proven" and "medically necessary", and have successfully imposed them on society. These words are not just adjectives used to sell a service. They have legal and public consequences which have been and will be felt by everyone.

"Scientifically proven" and "medically necessary" are terms that encompass the assumption that the scientific and medical ethics have been accounted for. In autism, these terms are applied to a treatment whose ethics remain unexamined and unchallenged.

Challenging the autism-ABA industry's ethics requires that autistics are seen as human beings with human rights. We do not live in a society that acknowledges this. We are in a society in which autistics have rights only if and when we resemble non-autistics.

This is like being black in a society where blacks have rights so long as they become white. My Member of Parliament recently told me that people casually and automatically assume she would prefer to be white, and incorrectly believe this would be an improvement--so perhaps my analogy is not a false equation. The poverty of autistic social outcomes, regardless of our abilities, is consistent with persons who have no rights and merit no ethical consideration. A treatment to make black people white, on the grounds that being white is statistically much better, is unthinkable in this society, never mind having it funded by taxpayers. We recognize instead that the best and least expensive way to deal with persons who have been denied rights because they are different is to restore these rights. Only when people with differences have legal and human rights can they be ethically researched and ethically helped.

Until this happens in autism, behaviourists can't evaluate what recovery from autism means and how it might be manifested. They have no way of knowing whether recovery from autism is a good or a terrible result. Their criteria are the biased byproducts of human rights violations and cannot be trusted. In pretending otherwise, behaviourists are proposing to train autistics in appropriate human behaviours while themselves displaying some of the most maladaptive human behaviours available.

From the same year (big year in autism rights it seems) there's this article from the NYT, which partly deals with the discussion and aftermath of aforementioned research paper.

How About Not 'Curing' Us, Some Autistics Are Pleading, by Amy Harmon

Perhaps the most public conflict between parents and adult autistics came in a lawsuit brought by several Canadian families who argued that the government should pay for their children's A.B.A. therapy because it is medically necessary. Michelle Dawson, an autistic woman in Montreal, submitted testimony questioning the ethics of the therapy, which the Canadian Supreme Court cited in its ruling against the families in November.

Ms. Dawson's position infuriates many parents who are fighting their own battles to get governments and insurance companies to pay for the expensive therapy.

"I'm afraid of this movement," said Kit Weintraub, the mother of two autistic children in Madison, Wis.

Ms. Weintraub's son, Nicholas, has benefited greatly from A.B.A., she said, and she is unapologetic about wanting to remove his remaining quirks, like his stilted manner of speaking and his wanting to be Mickey Mouse for Halloween when other 8-year-olds want to be Frodo from "The Lord of the Rings."

"I worry about when he gets into high school, somebody doesn't want to date him or be his friend," she said. "It's no fun being different."

The dispute extends even to the basic terminology of autism.

"I would appreciate it, if I end up in your article, if you describe me as 'an autistic' or 'an autistic person,' versus the 'person with...,' " Ms. Dawson wrote in an e-mail message. "Just like you would feel odd if people said you were a 'person with femaleness.' "

Ms. Weintraub insists on the opposite. "My children have autism, they are not 'autistics,' " she wrote in her own widely circulated essay, "A Mother's Perspective." "It is no more normal to be autistic than it is to have spina bifida."

These things go way back it seems. :)

Anyway, I'm not against there being a cure an sich. I wish we could all find the help we need, the right treatment/conditions to lead a good life, whatever form it takes. As long as it's voluntary, as long as it's a free choice made by the autistic and not something the autistic, or the autistic's parents are scaremongered into.
 
Also, the gut bacteria thing.

As 113 very well pointed out, this is cutting edge science, in the sense that we hardly know how any of it actually works. All this study has done is show that in the very limited group of 44 test subjects there appears to be a correlation between a decrease in certain gut bacteria and ASD.

All good. Very good. We're learning. Progress is slow, but we're learning. Still, further research, a lot of further research, is needed before any meaningful conclusions can be drawn, let alone some kind of therapy can be developed using said conclusions and knowledge (which we don't have yet).But then the little glimpses of knowledge we've managed to gather together get blown out of proportion and distorted beyond recognition by an industry of so called care providers claiming they have the solution, the cure to all our ailments, autism usually being one of those.

And that's where I get really itchy (they probably have something for that) because it's already so difficult to wade through all of the misinformation and to find proper help and understanding. I'm just tired of autism being preyed upon by one wave of quacks after the other trying to sell their alleged cures and treatments. I'm tired of seeing the same old tactics, the same rhetoric which always seems to be aimed not at autistics, but parents of preferably very young children, urging them to take action fast (buy the book/take the seminar) before the symptoms make their life unbearable. (I still wonder if it's even possible, apart from some clear cut cases, to correctly diagnose say, a two year old with something as complex as autism. A suspicion, something to keep an eye on, yes, but a definite diagnosis warranting some drastic and possibly harmful treatment…I'm not sure.)

Something like Gut and Psychology Syndrome, or GAPS™ (picture that, a trademarked syndrome), and the accompanying diet, books and range of dietary supplements, springs to mind as a clear example and deserves a critical look (or two).

And what if the bacteria in our gut, our microbiome, are actually involved in causing something like autism, among other things? Wouldn't altering it without having a clear understanding of the actual workings possibly exacerbate the problem, or bring on new ones? Do not implement new medical discoveries until they are thoroughly tested and understood.

There will always need to be phases of experimentation. But it's nice to know that it is experimentation, that it is theory and that actual knowledge is, for now, sadly, very, very limited.

Microbiology: Microbiome science needs a healthy dose of scepticism

The hype surrounding microbiome research is dangerous, for individuals who might make ill-informed decisions, and for the scientific enterprise, which needs to develop better experimental methods to generate hypotheses and evaluate conclusions. Funding agencies must not let their priorities be distorted by the buzz around the field, but look dispassionately at the data. Press officers must stop exaggerating results, and journalists must stop swallowing them whole. In pre-scientific times when something happened that people did not understand, they blamed it on spirits. We must resist the urge to transform our microbial passengers into modern-day phantoms.
 
I certainly respect medical science in general, but I take all these studies and claims and ideas it generates with a very large grain of salt.

Complicated issues like autism are conditions with many layers of properties and probably interrelations. Researchers often jump to conclusions and create theories based on uncovering just one small layer... and the 'breakthrough finding' is overturned as soon as some other researcher peels off another layer.

So until what autism is, what causes it, etc, is truly known in detail I consider the many claims of improvement or cure as likely premature.
 
As long as it's voluntary, as long as it's a free choice made by the autistic and not something the autistic, or the autistic's parents are scaremongered into.

I agree.

All good. Very good. We're learning. Progress is slow, but we're learning. Still, further research, a lot of further research, is needed before any meaningful conclusions can be drawn, let alone some kind of therapy can be developed using said conclusions and knowledge (which we don't have yet).But then the little glimpses of knowledge we've managed to gather together get blown out of proportion and distorted beyond recognition by an industry of so called care providers claiming they have the solution, the cure to all our ailments, autism usually being one of those.

I referred to it above as an "imaginary" future treatment. The specific form that treatments might take isn't my main point. I just find that specific area of research very interesting. :)

Something like Gut and Psychology Syndrome, or GAPS™ (picture that, a trademarked syndrome), and the accompanying diet, books and range of dietary supplements, springs to mind as a clear example and deserves a critical look (or two).

There is a lot a snake oil out there. Someone once mentioned GAPS™ to me, so I took a quick look. I don't know whether it helps or not, but it didn't appeal to me.

From the Nature article:

"Faecal transplants have been proposed — some more sensible than others — for conditions ranging from diabetes to Alzheimer's disease. With how-to instructions proliferating online, desperate patients must be warned not to attempt these risky procedures on themselves." :eek:

If people are doing that to themselves in their living rooms, they do need to be warned. :confused:

Related to one of those critical articles that you posted - Meet the Phage, a Tiny Killer - The New Yorker
 
I had AS a long time before I had any GI issue.

I once went on a special diet for a bodybuilding program. In two weeks I looked visibly different. Then I began to feel queasy. Then I was rushed by a friend to Urgent Care for severe pains, which they didn't give me treatment for because it might be appendicitis "if you feel x." They couldn't give me any more pain relief because if it did turn out to be appendicitis we wanted to know that.

The pain got a little better and I stayed home. It was a July morning, with temperatures climbing into the 90's, and I could not warm up. I sat outside in the sun draped in three layers of wool and it took 35 minutes for me to warm to a comfortable temperature. To this day something about my internal thermostat doesn't work right. I've always been supersensitive to heat, later in life sensitive to heat/cold, and now I can't stay warm in winter...the cold seems to be in the bones themselves. No one's been able to diagnose it. The only things that help are electric blankets, hot spices, and red wine (which I don't like as much as white).

Oh well. Please pass the glogg!:wineglass:

As for the original topic question, I agree with Jim Sinclair: they don't want to cure, they want to kill, and with Marianne Moore: "we do not admire what we cannot understand."
 
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I don't care about the idea of a cure. The missing piece of the puzzle is acceptance, not a cure or genetic testing. I'd much rather bee accepted as I am, than cured and forced into a grey box that people call 'Normal".
 
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I did this shirt design yesterday, as a response to a disturbing autism awareness rally I just attended, and to about 50 other t-shirts offered on Cafe Press for Autism Awareness Month with slogans that focus on cure. It explains my personal position succinctly.

Cure Attitudes Not Autism.webp


Now here's the long version:

If people with ASDs were fully accepted, better understood and allowed to be themselves, the parents who are so desperate for a cure might not be nearly so desperate. From what I just saw at the aforementioned rally, some of the most ASD-prejudiced and intolerant people are parents of children with profound autism. If I heard or saw the word "normal" one more time at that rally, I would have vomited.

I can understand and support why parents of children with profound autism would want to find effective treatments for severe cases to enable independent functioning, but when the focus becomes wiping out ASD genes altogether, they lose me completely. The longer I've had to digest my own diagnosis (made January 21st this year), the more I resent that the untold numbers of Aspies and Auties who feel we're fine the way we are seem to be flatly discounted in most public discourse about spectrum disorders. I would guess that we outnumber severe cases by a significant margin.

Asperger's is a big part of what has made me who I am. The obsession with cure amounts to an insistence that I am a problem to be solved, and frankly, that pisses me off. Some of the most interesting and capable people I know are on the spectrum, and if a genetic intervention was found to prevent any more like us from being born, I honestly believe the world would suffer for it. Since ASDs have only been identified within the last century, we have no way of knowing how many spectrum people have contributed significantly to humanity in ways they might not have had they been NT. I'm not big on retrospective diagnosis, but based on the assertions of those who are, it could very well be that science would not have ever reached a place where a cure could even be sought had there not been people with ASDs. So to cure advocates, I'd say be careful what you wish for. It may come back to haunt us all later.
 
Oh God, what Slithytoves wrote reminded me of a show I saw today. I was at my (neurotypical) boyfriend's parents' house, and Extreme Love: Autism was on one of the English channels in HK. It's a BBC show, and Louis Theroux goes around visiting different American families with autistic kids. He asks them all about whether they would want a 'cure' and gets varying responses (from 'yes of course' to 'this is a test from God' to 'no never').

I immediately disliked the attitude of the first mom they visited (Marcelo's mother), but I had a hard time explaining why exactly. I mean, I am sympathetic to parents who don't have any way to understand their child and are in way over their heads...that would be frustrating for anyone. But I also feel bad for their kids, 'cause it's even more frustrating not to be understood, and blamed for it. I had to explain how a meltdown for me is different than for someone with severe autism, and what I know of what the kids were experiencing. That seemed to help the bf understand better, 'cause at first he was like "This is a totally different thing," "Why are they doing that?" Kinda disturbed that parents don't all appear to even know the difference between a meltdown and a tantrum, though.

Later I noticed that it seemed the more well-off the family was, the harder time they had coping (at least, Marcelo's family had the nicest house), like their kids' autism was a stain on their perfect life that they didn't deserve. In contrast, Brian's mom probably struggled the most with his behavior (apparently he burned their house down and pulled her hair out), but she was so understanding and clearly loved her son. But by the end of the show, when they visit Marcelo's family again, the bf was cringing at their attitude, too. The mom actually says:

"You know, they always say God gives you what you can handle. And I have to say, I think that we are extraordinary people. But we were extraordinary people before these children came into our lives, which is probably why I have such difficulty accepting it. I just--some people it transforms them to being this ultra-caring kind of a person, whereas I think we've always been that kind of a person. [...] Which is always part of the reason why I get so angry, because I am that loving, sweet person, that compassionate person!"
I guess that's entitlement. :eek:
 
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I DO think that we should not be looking for a cure for people who can communicate well enough and function on their own. However, I do think it is fair for an NT to expect us to continually make efforts to be a part of society too and to not expect everything to just go "the aspie way" either. As AsheSkyler said before, maximizing "balance" and respect from all parties is what is needed.
 
Talk of cure is not worth considering until its reality. They do not even fully know what causes autism or even exactly what it is yet. They have been talking about a cure for cancer for 50 years, maybe longer, and still don't have it.
 
Sorry, I think my first reply was a bit too tangential. To try to bring it back to the topic of the thread...

Of course I wouldn't want a 'cure' for myself. But I feel that is far easier for me to say as a "high-functioning" autistic. That said, I don't think that all the difficulties I experience are just a result of how society handles it. For instance, I have had high anxiety for as long as I can remember, and as long as my mother was aware of my emotions. I see it as a bit similar to sensory hypersensitivity, except with anxiety: it is easier for me to become anxious and about more things than an NT; my baseline level of anxiety is higher like I'm always 'on alert'.

I don't think this negates the social model of disability, but it is like being almost a different species. Humans are social animals. They have evolved to live in close quarters and rely on each other and shared language and culture. Any human who can't take part in that shared language and culture is at a disadvantage in terms of survival. But it can also be an advantage because they are separate from the 'group think'. It should be no surprise that some of the strengths of autistic people in invention, focus and creativity have a corresponding disadvantage in survival. To have belonging and acceptance, you have to be a lot less independent in thought and manner. If you're going to be independent, you have to separate from the group. But of course those inventions often benefit everyone else in the end, so perhaps having people who are genetically predisposed to be less social/conformist/whatever is essential to the species.

So maybe we can blame nature for not being exact, for just expressing a tendency towards autism so that some of those people will turn out to further the development of the species. :rolleyes: Because there are a lot of people who got the short end of the stick, for whom coping with daily life is only constant struggle, who cannot speak to communicate whatever might be going on in their heads and help others understand. And I think then you just have to look at different ways of coping and what is really in their best interests versus what is just to make their family feel like a "normal family".

For a few people, might it be better to have a 'cure'? I don't think we know what that looks like yet. I know the people who studied lack of synaptic pruning as a cause of autism have looked at drugs that create normal synaptic pruning in mice and can reverse "austistic-like behaviors". They're still looking for a drug that would have the same effect in humans, but to me...that is scary. ASD isn't like other disabilities--whether mental or physical, they're usually tied to your ability to do a specific thing like see (blindness) or read and write (dyslexia). But ASD is a part of how you think and feel in many ways and as such is more like personality.

What it looks like they're talking about to me is...well, you may know how Temple Grandin had her brain scanned and saw how her visual cortex was more connected than normal? Ah, here she explains it:

"In 2006, Nancy Minshew and her colleagues performed a method called diffusion tensor imaging on me. They found a huge white fiber tract that runs from deep in my visual cortex up to my frontal cortex. It is located in the brain slice made at the level of my eyes. It is almost twice as large as my sex- and age-matched controls. I used to joke about having a big high-speed Internet line deep in my visual cortex. It has turned out that I really do have one. This may explain my ability to read massive amounts of detailed literature and sort out the details. In my case, abstract thought based on language has been replaced with high-speed handling of hundreds of 'graphics' files."
I think if they restore normal synaptic pruning in autistic people, yes, we would regain those executive functioning and social abilities that are impaired by weak connections between the frontal cortex and the rest of the brain, but we would lose the details. The autistic way of thinking. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Earlier in the same article, she explains the general differences between autistic brains and those of neurotypicals (emphasis added; she also says more about it here, under "2006 Update to Chapter 1"):

10. DIFFERENT KINDS OF BRAINS
Recent research on the white matter in the brain may provide an explanation for the uneven profile of abilities that is found in many individuals with autism. There are defects in the white matter interconnections between different localized brain regions. Courchesne et al. (2004) called these connections the 'computer cables' that wire different parts of the brain together. The frontal cortex gets less connections than other parts of the brain, but some local areas in the brain may get extra connections (Minshew & Williams 2007). Casanova and colleagues (2006, 2007; Casanova & Trippe 2009) found that the brain of both famous neuroscientists and people on the autism spectrum have more circuits (mini-columns) per square centimeter of brain. They suggest that this may explain savant-like skills. The disadvantage of this type of brain construction is that these small circuits have fewer long-distance connections between distant brain regions that facilitate complex social behaviors.

There is a wide range of brains that should be considered part of normal variation. A brain can be built with larger fast circuits that facilitate social communication or smaller, slower circuits that improve cognition in a specialized area.

In any information processing system, there are always trade-offs. Brains with high-speed connections to many distant areas will be fast and details will be missed. Research shows that normal brains fail to process details that the autistic person perceives (see Happe & Frith 2009; Happe & Vital 2009). My model for visualizing the different types of brains is a large corporate office building. The president (frontal cortex) is located at the top and he has telephone and computer connections (white matter) to offices throughout the building. I hypothesize that in a highly social brain, the frontal cortex has high-speed connections that go mainly to the department heads in the building. The network is fast and details are omitted. In the autistic/Asperger brain, the frontal cortex is poorly connected, but the visual and auditory parts of the brain (technical nerd departments) have lots of extra local connections providing better processing of detailed information.

11. AUTISTIC INTELLIGENCE
Michelle Dawson, a woman with autism, has teamed up with Laurent Mottron, a researcher in Canada, to show that autistic intelligence goes beyond just rote memorization. Instead of using just the Wechsler IQ tests, they tested both normal and autistic children with Raven's Progressive Matrices (Dawson et al. 2007). In this test, the person is shown complicated patterns and he/she has to choose the pattern that will complete a series of patterns. Dawson and colleagues found that the IQ scores for the autistic children were 30-70 percentile points higher on the Raven's compared with the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), while normal children have similar IQ scores when given the Raven's and the WISC. Scheuffgen et al. (2000) found that children with autism can show fast information processing despite poor measured IQ. These results show that autistic intelligence is truly different.
I see this isn't the first time Michelle Dawson has showed up in this thread. Must be a cool lady.

So I think the question is, is it 'worth it' for some autistic people to lose their way of thinking so that they can cope with the world better, or do we need to try harder to develop ways for them to get along in society as they are and acceptance and understanding for those around them? I think in most cases the latter is preferable, even if that involves medication for anxiety, (ethical) therapy, etc. Especially at a young age, it's impossible to know what a child might be capable of, and we know that being nonverbal as a kid doesn't mean someone will remain so or that there is nothing going on upstairs. Even for the severe cases in the show I referenced upthread (Extreme Love), it seemed clear that with a supportive environment, less stressed parents (we know autistic people tend to be sensitive to tension or the overall atmosphere), and better ways of coping (e.g. leaving the kid alone during meltdown rather than restraining him), life significantly improved for both the kids and their families.

I feel like just picking out the most severe cases ends up being more like intellectual discrimination than anything, and why don't we have the same discussion then about Down's Syndrome, etc.? This is reminding me of Flowers for Algernon, ha--a favorite book of mine in middle school. I think it was an eye-opener for me that intelligence was not the unquestionably good thing I had thought it was. In general, I'm a bit cold and pragmatic, and to me, having an attachment to preserving a life that is clearly suffering is just irrational. But it's not clear to me that that is the case here, or that the benefits of alleviating the frustration and suffering outweighs the cost of changing the autistic person's way of being (even assuming we could set aside issues of consent, development, and where to draw the line). But it does seem that our current systems don't accommodate autistic people or their families anywhere near well enough to say. I do think it's tough on families, and they deserve help. We should be able to care for those at the lower-functioning end of whatever spectrum as a community, not leave families to struggle alone.

I guess that's where I stand right now.
 
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