[vent] My father showed up to my home once again...unannounced...

[Rodafina]

I'd like some resources, yes...I wish this was easier. I wish I could just tell them all the things they did were wrong and just have them get it and leave us alone.

This is a minor action to take, but it's probably helpful to start documenting everything just in case that information is useful in the future. Just objective documentation of things that transpire, no feelings involved.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I've heard the word bandied around all my life as an insult but it was only in the last 12 months that I met a genuine narcissist for the first time.

This person really does have a lot of problems in life but they are not behaving strangely deliberately, any memories of past events are subjected to a type of psychosis and they genuinely believe their versions of events. Showing them their own writings from during those events caused them confusion and they'd respond with denial and then accusations of me falsifying what they had said.

This person truly believed themselves, they weren't trying to be mean or nasty, they honestly believed they were being attacked and victimised. I really feel sorry for them, but I'm not mentally equipped to deal with that situation.

That sounds like a real whack experience. Just...the mental gymnastics...I sorta feel sorry for them too.

Exactly, as your final sentence says--I'm not mentally equipped to deal with my parents. Don't they realize I'm my own adult with my own issues and responsibilities? And hassles in life? Cheese and crackers.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

This is a minor action to take, but it's probably helpful to start documenting everything just in case that information is useful in the future. Just objective documentation of things that transpire, no feelings involved.

Oh not to worry--I already have a PDF of screenshots of emails and responses. I've yet to add a photo of the (dated) note left in my door.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Everything in this thread seems to be the fiancee's parents and the husband. What about the wife? Is the wife going to support you and will she file a restraining order with you? She might be okay with the contact because it's family and maybe it doesn't bother her.. Are you and her meant to be if she is not in a position to stand by your side enough?

Consider couples therapy maybe?

There might be a bit of confusion with how I'm wording everything. It is my parents who have always been the issue, and my fiance has had to put up with such issues for nearly a decade. My fiance has loathed my parents since the beginning, and rightfully so. They have stood by my side through times good and bad, and are "in it for the long haul." I'd be nowhere in my life if it wasn't for them.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I'm not from the US - perhaps someone else knows the requirements for legal redress (e.g. a restraining order.
I've read in Reddit-based material that it's necessary for there to be tangible evidence of potential harm, which AFAIK you don't have yet.

I think it could be handled directly without too much trouble. But you'd need a suitable intermediary.
At this point I think it would be a mistake for you to engage directly.

But you have some leverage: they want something from you (access), and you don't want anything from them.
It's probably enough to work with.

If your fiance is prepared to take the role of intermediary, I suggest you put them in touch with me here (via our existing convo would be fine) for a discussion.

Yeah, getting evidence for psychological harm would be difficult to obtain. Unless we're talking about my journals, which dictate heavily times of some abuse and mostly stress.

What's a suitable intermediary?

Ah, I see now. Thank you for the offer; we will see.

 

[Hypnalis]

Well can't narcisissts also program others to not feel remorse? Or believe that the wrong thing they are doing is right?I guess they call this enabling, but...isn't that all psychological?

Don't plan on "curing" them. That's very likely to make things worse.

Your primary goal is to control your own situation. Once that's achieved, you can review your position.

Caring about the state of a crazy person literally gives them leverage over you. And narcs are masters at recognizing and (mis)using that kind of leverage.

But narcs need the control and the attention.

So you have to remove both (easy enough), and make sure they know it's gone. Them knowing is why an intermediary is necessary. It will take few calls and emails but nothing complicated. Anything else is optional.
Then you have to weather any storm that follows - but it's unlikely to be worse than another unannounced visit

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Don't plan on "curing" them. That's very likely to make things worse.

Your primary goal is to control your own situation. Once that's achieved, you can review your position.

Caring about the state of a crazy person literally gives them leverage over you. And narcs are masters at recognizing and (mis)using that kind of leverage.

But narcs need the control and the attention.

So you have to remove both (easy enough), and make sure they know it's gone. Them knowing is why an intermediary is necessary. It will take few calls and emails but nothing complicated. Anything else is optional.
Then you have to weather any storm that follows - but it's unlikely to be worse than another unannounced visit

Nope; there's no way they can be cured. But my sad mind won't let go of the ghost of the possibility.

My parents know there's no way of controlling me anymore. But they won't let it go. If they cared about me and what they did, they'd apologize. But it's never happened.

Oh, I shudder to think of what might be worse...but they can't cross a moat if I fill it with spikes and lava. Getting a moat dug and finding said lava and spikes is the challenging part.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Hey everyone, thanks for your replies and kind thoughts. It means a lot that folks are willing to listen to my family issues.

 

[paloftoon]

Since it's your parents, OP, then you need to cut off your parents if they aren't helping you out at all. If they are reasonably helping you out, then you have to put up with them.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Since it's your parents, OP, then you need to cut off your parents if they aren't helping you out at all. If they are reasonably helping you out, then you have to put up with them.

I know. For years my fiance was telling m the same thing--that I'd need to cut them off one day. It just took me some time to see and understand.

No, they don't help me at all. All I've been given by them is conflicted memories and trauma. They left me in medical debt and never tried to help me with my autism and always blamed me for my reactions. They give me nothing but anger and anxiety. So why can't I grow the balls to just write a curt something, stating to just leave us alone? Because they'd play victim to everyone else who I knew and cared about? I just wish there was like a filter from Black Mirror or something where only they could not perceive me or interact with me. Just...having them understand from a psychological level why I don't want to be around them is all I want. But it'll never happen.

 

[Hypnalis]

My parents know there's no way of controlling me anymore. But they won't let it go. If they cared about me and what they did, they'd apologize. But it's never happened.

I genuinely like that you're still optimistic, but I really wish you'd set re-think/reset this whole mindset.

You're parents are both mentally ill.

They don't know they can't control you. If they did, they would act differently - for example, your mother's email (from a few months ago) would have been significantly different. They believe they care, and that they're acting in the best possible way.

So it's not "reluctant to let go" on their side, it's "how can we help deluded Autotune understand the real situation".

This is the (most likely by far) reason they haven't considered apologizing, despite it being the obviously best action on their part. They're don't see it as an option, because they "know" they're done no wrong.

Which brings us to the point of this post:

Your wanting them to apologize is "symptom" of the reason it's hard for you to handle them.

It significantly weakens your position.
As a secondary goal it requires that you always keep the possibility of negotiation open. Which limits the options open to you, literally starting with the initial contact.

You need to take an absolutely neutral position, focused only on the primary objective..
Wanting a "fairytale ending" weakens you, Ditto a wish for "payback".
You (your "side") should do exactly what's needed, neither more nor less, until the primary objective is definitely achieved.

This isn't easy of course, especially for a naturally agreeable person. But that can be handled by your avoiding direct contact, hence the need for an intermediary.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I genuinely like that you're still optimistic, but I really wish you'd set re-think/reset this whole mindset.

You're parents are both mentally ill.

They don't know they can't control you. If they did, they would act differently - for example, your mother's email (from a few months ago) would have been significantly different. They believe they care, and that they're acting in the best possible way.

So it's not "reluctant to let go" on their side, it's "how can we help deluded Autotune understand the real situation".

This is the (most likely by far) reason they haven't considered apologizing, despite it being the obviously best action on their part. They're don't see it as an option, because they "know" they're done no wrong.

Which brings us to the point of this post:

Your wanting them to apologize is "symptom" of the reason it's hard for you to handle them.

It significantly weakens your position.
As a secondary goal it requires that you always keep the possibility of negotiation open. Which limits the options open to you, literally starting with the initial contact.

You need to take an absolutely neutral position, focused only on the primary objective..
Wanting a "fairytale ending" weakens you, Ditto a wish for "payback".
You (your "side") should do exactly what's needed, neither more nor less, until the primary objective is definitely achieved.

This isn't easy of course, especially for a naturally agreeable person. But that can be handled by your avoiding direct contact, hence the need for an intermediary.

I wish I'd rethink it too.

Thank you for all the helpful info. The trick is applying it to life and having it follow through...and it's not like I can just easily turn off my emotions and wishing for things to be different. But maybe it'll take training and grey-rocking. Usually my sister keeps me updated on them but so far, no cigar.

I hope one day I can be as wise as you.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

It's the strangest thing. On Saturday night after the intrusion, I must've felt oddly about the whole thing because I had this dream that my father was drowning. I tried to save him but I couldn't. Or maybe I didn't want to. I don't know. I hate that I'm conflicted in all of this.

 

[Hypnalis]

Dreams won't help you foresee the future, but they do reflect your present (emotional) state. They're useless for rational analysis though - that part of your brain is effectively acting randomly.

Your inner conflict is a good thing, provided you don't take it too seriously.

You have a difficult problem, and a dispassionate outsider (me) just recommended that you emotionally disengage from two of your life's most important relationships. If you're weren't conflicted about that, even I would be concerned

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Dreams won't help you foresee the future, but they do reflect your present (emotional) state. They're useless for rational analysis though - that part of your brain is effectively acting randomly.

Your inner conflict is a good thing, provided you don't take it too seriously.

You have a difficult problem, and a dispassionate outsider (me) just recommended that you emotionally disengage from two of your life's most important relationships. If you're weren't conflicted about that, even I would be concerned

True; that's a really really good point.

Is my conflict a good thing? How? Does it...maybe show how different I am from my parents? I mean, before we moved in together, I had a full breakdown...where I wasn't sure if I should choose between my partner and my parents. I mean full breakdown. It sort of kicked in that usually I fight what is good for me--I don't know why. But it's hard to emotionally disengage from my parents for purely pyschological reasons--it's hard for anyone.

 

[Hypnalis]

Internal conflict isn't good or bad. It is what it is. There's more than one way forward, and your inner self can't decide between them. Your inner self isn't rational or analytical though - and only children (and depressingly many Gen Z'ers /lol) blindly follow their emotions.

I can tell you how to approach this, but I can't help you deal with the emotional knot. Don't get too concerned if you can't unravel it directly though. This is something that will resolve itself if you keep calm and wait it out.

So, a first pass: try framing it like this:

Your parents, and your relationship with the rest of your birth family, is your origin. So it's important, but it's also your past.
It matters a lot to the child (complete dependency, formation) and the youth (partial dependency, development). Ideally you would be past that. As a youth you have a right to receive help to cross that threshold, but I don't think it's happened. FWIW I don't think this is entirely your parents' fault, but they must bear some of the responsibility.
It's definitely not your fault

Humans enter the world slowly (born much earlier than other mammals because of the hugely over-sized brain), and develop slowly. Maturing from youth to adulthood is slow and indistinct too, and modern western society has disrupted/forgotten the traditional rituals that mark and support the transition, so there isn't much to help individuals bridge from dependency to full personal responsibility.

So here you are: you have experienced some significant complications on the path to fully independent adulthood, and you're still too strongly connected to your origin. This must be addressed.

Your partner is part of your adult future. But Life Partnership is complicated too, in many ways. Full clarity of purpose doesn't come easily or quickly.

In your case, the most difficult complication is that the psychological links back to your early life haven't been honestly and cleanly disconnected. Yet doing so is necessary for the step to adulthood - being able to make your own way in the world. Alone if necessary, but preferably with a life partner - this is the arrangement that we are evolved for.

So here you are. Your "emotional core" can't resolve this. But nor can the rational/analytical "top layer" of your brain, which isn't isolated from your emotional core.

In terms of actions, I'm comfortable with the recommendations I've already made.

As to your personal path - you have to make your own choice, but it's clear you need to move forward.
Of course you also need to deal with the complications of the past as best you can. But not at the cost of moving forward.