Tough question: why do we separate ourselves from the rest of the world?

[epath13]

Let me explain.

Opinion
A need for belonging is natural for most human beings. We all seem to wish to be a part of a group, which we feel more comfortable with, or identify ourselves with. When you are in a group, sometimes individuals in other groups seem to be distinctly different from us. And it is, in a way, true we do have our differences. But in our core we are all the same. Depending on differences in our brain functioning we may behave differently, have different coping mechanisms, may have different needs. But all those things may overlap, even though many seem to refuse to see this "overlaps".

Is it intentional denial of sameness or we're just incapable of seeing it?

Do you think, if you associate yourself with an Autism group (meaning that you think that you have, or was diagnosed with ASD) you tend to "throw" all your thoughts, behaviors and feelings into this "Autism basket"? Do you tend to think that majority of you feelings, behaviors, your perception have everything to do with Autism? Or do you separate all the "normal" characteristics and "autistic" characteristics?

I feel (and again I might be wrong, maybe I'm the only one seeing it) that many people who speak/ write about their Autism, or about their kids' Autism tend to "throw" everything into one "autistic basket". I see countless "that's how Autism feels like" articles and videos. Sometimes I feel that there's certain desperate need to divide the world into "autistic" and "normal". And, in my opinion, it's not just about Autism, many groups divide the world into "us" and "them".

So I'm not sure... humans do it instinctively but is it working for us? Do we really need this separation?

What do you think?

The subject is much wider than I can express but I'm going to stop here.

 

[Harrison]

I think of my aspergers in the same way that I think of my having brown skin or grey hair etc. Some people will see my grey hair and be affected/unaffected by it, similarly with the colour of my skin or even my accent. So, in answer, for me I don't actively think that my actions are overridingly governed by being an aspie. There may be times when whatever aspie traits I have may come to the fore, other times when I am just being my eccentric self.

Agreed, there is a tendency to have an 'aspie basket' that we are all 'supposed' to draw from and I think that is a dangerous road to travel.

We are as unique in character with our aspergers as those who don't have it.

Anyway, the thought that there is someone else exactly like me is somewhat frightening, for other humans that is.

 

[Suzanne]

Perhaps I am missing the point, but your thread does not seem to tally with your actually post. I apologise if I am the one who is just not understanding very well

I was going to answer that I have no choice but be in the "world" whether I like it or not, because for one thing, I am married to an nt and my faith, which means, I am surrounded by nts. But if I could, I would not want to even associate with nts for the most part, or should I say, those whom I know.

The why? Because most nts do not care a jot about us and think that we should confirm to their way of thinking. Now there are some wonderful positives being an nt, which I would so dearly love to attain to, but I hate the way most shrug off injustices and for that, I do not envy them being nts. The majority of nts, make it very hard to for us aspies.

But to your actual post. I believe that the higher an aspie is on the spectrum, the more " all in the bag" one is. The lower the spectrum the less "in the bag". Which I feel means that the lower one is on the scale, the more "normal" traits they process.

I tend to say: I am having an aspie moment; much like one says: I am having a blonde moment and I tell you, I HATE doing it, because all it does, is makes me feel useless. I guess it is a way to stop ones from saying nasty things to me; a defensive action on my part. Also because honestly unless one speaks to me, one would never guess I am an aspie.

Anyway, epath13 I am sorry if my first part causes any offense to you!

 

[BlackKitsune13]

For me it is because I do t know if the other people in the world will be friendly or ridicule me. I don't know, therefore it is intimidating....

 

[Greg]

For me it is kind of realizing that I am different that NT's. I don't throw everything into the autistic bucket. There are certain traits and behaviors that are different from theirs but that is all they are. I actively going to therapy to work on the difficulties that I have and better fit into the ""normal"" way of doing things.

 

[Harrison]

An interesting thought I just had.

In my life I have travelled extensively around the world, in those travels I have had to accomodate the variety of ways each culture expresses itself. Often that expression is radically different to what I am used to in the UK. In each case I learnt to fit in.

Perhaps this is why I don't have a problem being an aspie?

For me there is no 'normal' way as I've seen so many other ways, and maybe that lends to me thinking I am not so different from those around me.

Just a thought.

 

[CaveDweller]

The need to belong is just human. I think we judge our value as a person by how we relate to others and our sanity by bouncing ideas off people and having them agree. It's validating and strengthens our sense of identity.

I'm very wary of letting the condition completely define me. I want to see myself as an individual who happens to have autism and not just a collection of difficulties and differences that makes up the whole person. It would be easy to explain/excuse everything away as being because of the condition but that is not the case. If I didn't have this I would still have things I struggle with, still make stupid mistakes, say the wrong thing and, yes, have special interests and be good at certain things.

If you consider yourself to be a cake, then Autism is merely an ingredient. An important part that makes it what it is, but certainly not the whole thing.
Funny way of putting it, but that how I try to see things.

 

[epath13]

Perhaps I am missing the point, but your thread does not seem to tally with your actually post. I apologise if I am the one who is just not understanding very well

I was going to answer that I have no choice but be in the "world" whether I like it or not, because for one thing, I am married to an nt and my faith, which means, I am surrounded by nts. But if I could, I would not want to even associate with nts for the most part, or should I say, those whom I know.

The why? Because most nts do not care a jot about us and think that we should confirm to their way of thinking. Now there are some wonderful positives being an nt, which I would so dearly love to attain to, but I hate the way most shrug off injustices and for that, I do not envy them being nts. The majority of nts, make it very hard to for us aspies.

But to your actual post. I believe that the higher an aspie is on the spectrum, the more " all in the bag" one is. The lower the spectrum the less "in the bag". Which I feel means that the lower one is on the scale, the more "normal" traits they process.

I tend to say: I am having an aspie moment; much like one says: I am having a blonde moment and I tell you, I HATE doing it, because all it does, is makes me feel useless. I guess it is a way to stop ones from saying nasty things to me; a defensive action on my part. Also because honestly unless one speaks to me, one would never guess I am an aspie.

Anyway, epath13 I am sorry if my first part causes any offense to you!

I think everyone is free to interpret questions, posts, opinions as they like. Sometimes it's hard for me to express myself clearly enough so absolutely everybody can understand. Sometimes when I see that a person seem to understands exactly what I am saying, I just assume that we're sort of on the same wavelength. And as I mentioned earlier, it's also not easy to squeeze the complexity of a subject into a post. And... it's probably have nothing to do with complexity, but more with self expression limitations.

I could give some examples probably (only about one of the subject's angles)... let's see... 1st thing that popped into my head.
Let's say, there's video bout Autism. It is about being overwhelmed by noise. The video is presented as being about Autism while the video is actually about SPD (I believe only a form of it) which can be a comorbid condition but it is not Autism.

I also saw a video about a migraine attack that shows how sensitivity to light and sound feels like, which looks pretty much the same as sensory overload. And you could easily change names of this video to "how autism feels like", "how SPD feels like", "how migraine attack feels like" even probably to "how schizophrenia feels like" and it all might seem true.

And this is just one small example. Sometimes we seems to refuse to see that people who are not on the spectrum might feel in a very similar way, but we decide to present it as Autism. Sometimes I think it's because of very vague idea of what Autism actually is. We just know that we are different but we still want to belong to a group.

As for pretending and playing roles. I've just had a discussion with my husband about it, and I also heard this from my mom through my entire childhood that people "fake", pretend and adjust all the time, that's what people do. I think it would be considered as Autism trait to hate "faking" and playing roles, but many people hate this as well, some choose not to "fake" and they don't have Autism.

I'm only trying to show how our perceptions overlap, that's all.

And you don't have to apologize, I haven't noticed anything in your post that could be considered as offensive

 

[Warmheart]

The is no "us" and "them." My belief is of interbeing. We all inter-are. NTs, Aspies, all ethnicities, ages, cultures... all plants, animals, minerals exist together. The happiness of one enhances the happiness of all.

There exist bitter, angry seperatists within the autistic community, the deaf community, the recovery community. I do not share their perspective. I have compassion for their suffering, and wish them emotional healing and happiness.

My autism is how I experience the world-- but I am more than just autistic.

We are all in this together.

 

[Aspieistj]

I am 71 and I have always blamed myself for anything that goes wrong. I have learned, over the years, that I an NOT always the cause of some mishap, but the reaction is usually knee-jerk--Oh, I must be the culprit because I am weird. Because I didn't realize I was an Aspie until I was in my 60s I have lived decades believing everything negative I have ever been told about myself. I probably over estimate the frequency of NT cold shoulders I experience, but I also know a lot of the time the problem is because I am different and it shows. I can't make myself an NT and I know I will never live long enough for autism to become well understood and tolerated by most decent people. For that reason, once I retired and mover out into the middle of farm country, I have chosen to live almost like a hermit. I stopped accepting requests to interact with others, I told everybody I know that I am on the spectrum and I feel most comfortable when alone, and have convinced people that I really want to be alone--no company, no phone calls, forget birthday and Christmas cards, and for God's sake, don't take my withdrawal to be intended to be cruel or hurtful to others. I am simply seeking peace in solitude in my old age when making huge changes in myself would be very difficult, if even possible. I have two sons, two cats and a dog, some very kind and understanding neighbors, and a measure of peace living as I have chosen to do. I would help anyone in distress. I stopped yesterday and asked a motorist with his hood raised if he needed help. It turned out someone had already stopped and loaned their cell phone to the man. I am a retired RN and stop at accident scenes to see if my help is needed. I always leave if I find other medical or emergency people already on the scene, but I do feel good about having offered a stranger some help. I don't hate everybody but I do find that "everybody" is a group who almost always includes some people who will quickly decide they don't like me. I wish I could find a group of Aspies with whom I could try interacting to see if I might find comfort among like people.

 

[Judge]

Some of us do, some of us don't.

I have always found my comfort more in solitude than in fellowship. But it's not to be interpreted as an outright rejection of fellowship. I just prefer the company of others in smaller doses, and at an appropriate time given whatever emotional state I may be in.

I have been living in near isolation a very long time, yet only stumbled onto being on the spectrum only a few years ago.

 

[King_Oni]

The best I can come up with is "I might have a few issues here or there that can be attributed to my aspergers"... but that's along the same lines as how a psychologist treats symptoms to diagnose you.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again "I got 99 problems, but my autism ain't one of them". Clearly it's not totally accurate, but for most part, I don't really consider my Aspergers to be the crutch I lean on in life.

What I do lean on, is the fact that I'm different from the norm. That has little to do with diagnosis, but just a proper observation to opinion, behaviour and motivation towards other people.

I've wondered if, because of my autism, I decided to be part of this forum, because I need to be somewhere, or if it's something else; since all my life, I've never been much of a follower in that sense. That's perhaps a bit of narciccism and ego playing part.

Perhaps a good coincidence is a thought I shared on this forum yesterday about that quote "when you've met one aspie, you've met one aspie". Increasingly I'm not entire sure what the point of this NT vs. AS debate is and where it's going, since it downplays the unique traits of the person and labels them with a disorder first and foremost. And while, by diagnosis we're equal in that regard, that's where it all stops (well, for all you pedantic folks; yes, we all decay in the same organic matter, lol), but I never considered myself to be "the same" as anyone else. Mind you, before someone puts word in my mouth, "not the same" doesn't equal "better".

My 2 cents for now. I'll probably break the bank later...

 

[Nitro]

The is no "us" and "them." My belief is of interbeing. We all inter-are. NTs, Aspies, all ethnicities, ages, cultures... all plants, animals, minerals exist together. The happiness of one enhances the happiness of all.

There exist bitter, angry seperatists within the autistic community, the deaf community, the recovery community. I do not share their perspective. I have compassion for their suffering, and wish them emotional healing and happiness.

My autism is how I experience the world-- but I am more than just autistic.

We are all in this together.

We do in fact all have to exist here no matter what our fellow beings have to offer or refuse anyone.

I do not identify with people on only neurological makeup,but more in line with how others treat me.

To choose a side based on brain structure would only serve to add more confusion to a thinking process in my honest opinion.

 

[indigo basil]

I often have Aspie moments, but I include those times I know for a fact aren't NT and which I think are simply marvelous (the pos+ ones, right?).
I found that apologising for how you're wired is just silly and makes nobody any wiser. They just think you are using it as an excuse or justification.
There are times when I am distressed and then I really seem weird, and I feel I HAVE to justify my stimming or whatever by saying it's an aspie thing, almost desperately. I wish people would read up on it when they ask me what it is. I just say we're wired differently, like left and right-handed people (when a lefty can't use scissors or something, they are justified in saying, hey, i'm a lefty) or creative or more analytical, left and right brain -oriented, etc. Eventually I say: socially dof. Dof is a word in Afrikaans which means 'dull' or 'not bright'. it's only at this point that people seem to get it. Then they start putting all those times together where i didn't get the joke, or was too literal or whatever, not the same as them and seemingly not on the same wavelength.
Am i still talking about the subject, here? I seem to digress.
What I want to say is that you can also have positive Aspie moments, when people think you're brilliant, then make them aware it's because of your unique mind. That way life becomes more positive for everyone concerned. Don't just focus on the negative.
Because, let's face it, there are great benefits to how our minds function.

 

[On the Inside]

For me there is no 'normal' way as I've seen so many other ways, and maybe that lends to me thinking I am not so different from those around me.

While I haven't traveled widely, I have never felt that there was a "normal" way, just a conventional way, much like how we follow a recipe. The rest is up to the individual. My ex'es sister (NT as it gets) had a confounding epiphany once, when she said, "you think that everyone else is pretty much like you, but they're not, not at all!" She was by no means sheltered, and had lived in other countries. I thought that it showed that she had been looking for ways in which people were similar, then was struck by how different people are.

We do in fact all have to exist here no matter what our fellow beings have to offer or refuse anyone.

I'm learning to look at things that way, some people are just not going to do it for others. We all have different abilities and expectations.

Do you think people try to group together with people of similar abilities and expectations?

Hmm.... I guess that's what this thread is about.

 

[CaveDweller]

[QUOTE=". Because I didn't realize I was an Aspie until I was in my 60s I have lived decades believing everything negative I have ever been told about myself. I probably over estimate the frequency of NT cold shoulders I experience, but I also know a lot of the time the problem is because I am different and it shows..[/QUOTE]

It must be difficult getting to advanced years with all of those struggles and not realising you have the condition. Getting to my 40's was difficult enough so you have my utmost respect. I also have difficulties fitting into groups. I find that people one to one are just themselves but put them into groups and the rules change (Group mentalities/peer pressure). They become something else entirely and it can make it difficult when you are a bit different.

I don't think you should ever feel bad about needing solitude or think of it as failing in any way, it's just what is right for you. On here you have a voice and people who can relate so you are not alone.

 

[Suzanne]

I often have Aspie moments, but I include those times I know for a fact aren't NT and which I think are simply marvelous (the pos+ ones, right?).
I found that apologising for how you're wired is just silly and makes nobody any wiser. They just think you are using it as an excuse or justification.
There are times when I am distressed and then I really seem weird, and I feel I HAVE to justify my stimming or whatever by saying it's an aspie thing, almost desperately. I wish people would read up on it when they ask me what it is. I just say we're wired differently, like left and right-handed people (when a lefty can't use scissors or something, they are justified in saying, hey, i'm a lefty) or creative or more analytical, left and right brain -oriented, etc. Eventually I say: socially dof. Dof is a word in Afrikaans which means 'dull' or 'not bright'. it's only at this point that people seem to get it. Then they start putting all those times together where i didn't get the joke, or was too literal or whatever, not the same as them and seemingly not on the same wavelength.
Am i still talking about the subject, here? I seem to digress.
What I want to say is that you can also have positive Aspie moments, when people think you're brilliant, then make them aware it's because of your unique mind. That way life becomes more positive for everyone concerned. Don't just focus on the negative.
Because, let's face it, there are great benefits to how our minds function.

Just the other day, someone said: wow you have got an amazing memory. To me, related the occurrence did not seem a long time ago; not quite the other day lol but the way she responded, it could have been about 3 year's ago, but it was only last year! I, of course, thanked her because I like being complimented on my good memory. I also get tons of compliments with my cross stitching!!

I also tend to justify myself and really hate it, because that is when I know I want to be on my own!

 

[Vinca]

I don't tend to think that majority of my feelings, behaviors and perception have everything to do with Autism.

When I exhibit a behaviour, coping mehcanism or have needs, feelings or a perception that is impacting my life in a way that is negative for me I like to be able to identify a reason for it. I want to be able to say that it is happening because of x.

When I exhibit a behaviour, coping mehcanism or have needs, feelings or a perception that seem very different from the majority of the people that I know, I feel a need to find people who exhibit them same behaviour, coping mechanism or the needs, feelings or perception. I also like to be able to identify a reason for it and to be able to say that it is happening because of y.

Sometimes the explaination I attribute to a behaviour, coping mehcanism, need, feeling or perception is my upbringing, other times it's, PMT, having a bad day, Autism, not having eaten, just being me, being cold etc

I think there where there are differences there will often be a desire to be understood and accepted.

Maybe in cases where people have had to fight to be believed that there is a difference, whatever that difference is, it can lead to being more focused on the difference and less focused on what there is common with others.

 

[Judge]

I don't tend to think that majority of my feelings, behaviors and perception have everything to do with Autism.

Stands to reason. Not everything in life is inherently tied to an ability or inability to socialize.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Not everything in life is inherently tied to an ability or inability to socialize.

I don't think everything about autism has to do with ability/inability to socialize, either...stimming, sensory issues, mood issues (or at least the increased risk for these issues), routines, clumsiness, speech differences (not necessarily limited to social issues)...

Even if I had been raised in an autistic family where AS was the norm and everyone was well adjusted to that norm on a social level...although I might have a great deal more self-esteem and confidence with other people (AS or NT) as a result, I'm sure there would still be many characteristics that would set me apart from NT children raised in healthy NT settings.

Not that I disagree with your point, however...I agree that AS is simply one factor among many that define each of us.

That said, it's awfully difficult to bridge that huge abyss between myself and the rest of the world...I don't think I've bridged it with other aspies, even, but at least other aspies get what I'm talking about usually.

At the same time, I think it's a mistake to lump everyone into two groups...those who "get" my problem with connecting and those who don't. The ones who don't get it, aren't problem-free either--their problems are just different than mine, and I don't get theirs any more than they get mine. There is no "normal."