Therapist shakes head twice, when you mention aspergers

[tducey]

To me a therapist should be there for you, the patient. Aspergers is my diagnosis as well, if I went to a therapist I'd hope they'd acknowledge Asperger's Syndrome and not shake their head.

 

[Eruva]

I’m tired of other people thinking they can tell you what you feel or experience. I’m frustrated with my therapist as well. She keeps giving me that frustrated look people get when they realize they can’t defend their own viewpoint.

As for these forums being dangerous, I wish more medical professionals would frequent these forums to learn from them. I’ve learned far more from forums than from any doctor or therapist.

 

[Katleya]

I wouldn't trust a therapist who doesn't specialize in autism to diagnose autism, or to even acknowledge that. Most psychiatrists in France still very much adhere to other schools and theories that are far behind.

That being said, please, please, please, do get in touch with one of the local autism resource centers to find the names of psychiatrists specialized in Asperger's in your local area, because it is acknowledged and considered a valid diagnosis in France. I know about 30 French women who were able to get a diagnosis. I got one myself, in France. No psychiatrist in France, provided that they have received training and are interested in working on autism, will dispute the existence of autism or Asperger's.

Claiming that AS isn't recognized by the French medical community is a very dangerous, and untrue, statement to make (including for future members who may see this and be discouraged without a valid reason), and it could be very well be what's sending you on a diagnosis dead-end if you're convinced beforehand that you won't get the diagnosis. Please see a specialized psychiatrist. You can get that diagnosis. It is recognized in France. Including for adults, and for girls or women.

 

[Judge]

What I find "dangerous" is a developed nation like France whose collective medical approach to autism is widely acknowledged in the global press to be far behind by other nations like the UK and the US by decades.

Interesting to see only today that it was reported that France's president is seeking to change this, unveiling a plan for early diagnostics and educating the public. Though whether a single politician can force an entire medical system to get with the times through political will alone, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens. And whether whatever plans are put into motion politically can truly outlast inevitable French regime change.

Perhaps we'll eventually be able to see whether or not France's medical system functions like an entrenched bureaucracy, or collectively and uniformly begin to embrace treatment and diagnostics for autism as do other developed nations. And to recognize that autistic children grow up to be autistic adults. Though there remain countless articles like these noting just how bad France's medical system presently is when it comes to autism, whether individual physicians truly acknowledge the condition or not.

With people like Suzanne "riding the point", who will be able to tell us firsthand whether those she encounters in France continue to "shake their head" or not at the prospect of autism. Though I agree with others, this can't be accomplished through a therapist.

Lagging decades behind on autism care, France plays catch-up

How France is facing its outdated notions about autism

 

[Suzanne]

but doctors seem to forget they miss diagnosing conditions every day I would say that was a reason to not be Judge mental!.

Because they get away with it, that is why they can stay in their bubble of comfort.

I think of mainstream drs and how often they just get a rap on the knuckle, even if they have caused a death.

It seems that more so then ever, drs are able to stay in their chosen field.

 

[Suzanne]

I wouldn't trust a therapist who doesn't specialize in autism to diagnose autism, or to even acknowledge that. Most psychiatrists in France still very much adhere to other schools and theories that are far behind.

That being said, please, please, please, do get in touch with one of the local autism resource centers to find the names of psychiatrists specialized in Asperger's in your local area, because it is acknowledged and considered a valid diagnosis in France. I know about 30 French women who were able to get a diagnosis. I got one myself, in France. No psychiatrist in France, provided that they have received training and are interested in working on autism, will dispute the existence of autism or Asperger's.

Claiming that AS isn't recognized by the French medical community is a very dangerous, and untrue, statement to make (including for future members who may see this and be discouraged without a valid reason), and it could be very well be what's sending you on a diagnosis dead-end if you're convinced beforehand that you won't get the diagnosis. Please see a specialized psychiatrist. You can get that diagnosis. It is recognized in France. Including for adults, and for girls or women.

In Paris, yes, but not in a little village as the one I live in. In fact, this establishment is free and it was my dr changing the wording of the letter from: I want to be diagnosed with social phobia; to: my husband thinks I have it and wants a formal diagnosis. The difference was remarkable. From a year wait and then, having to get another letter from the dr, to an instant appointment!

She says she has heard of aspergers and is quite positive that I do not have it.

But anyway, I am no longer seeing her, because it has been established that it is counterproductive for me to talk about my life.

I seeing my psychiatrist for about the 5 time end of this month. What is interesting is that he doesn't just listen and diagnose; he actually makes me think. But I do wish he would refrain from saying: courage. Because it makes me feel even weaker than I feel; as if I have not tried to be courageous!

Anyway, Katalya; Paris is multicultural and so, it is easy to get a diagnosis there. But, I live in an area of France that is considered not French Bretegne and so, the laws are different and I know that when you say aspergers and they say they have heard of it; they actually think of classic autism and I know I do not have that.

 

[Suzanne]

To me a therapist should be there for you, the patient. Aspergers is my diagnosis as well, if I went to a therapist I'd hope they'd acknowledge Asperger's Syndrome and not shake their head.

I was close to a meltdown when she shook her head twice! The second time, was from me explaining the symptoms and yet, she still is so confirmed in her mind that I have not got it, that it went no where and it was me who had to halt it, because I felt I was stuck.

I sense it is a case of seeing autism as a sort of cancer and well, any decent person is going to shake their head if you say you think you have cancer; knowing one is a hypocondriac.

 

[Suzanne]

I’m tired of other people thinking they can tell you what you feel or experience. I’m frustrated with my therapist as well. She keeps giving me that frustrated look people get when they realize they can’t defend their own viewpoint.

As for these forums being dangerous, I wish more medical professionals would frequent these forums to learn from them. I’ve learned far more from forums than from any doctor or therapist.

No, no, she did not say they were dangerous. It was me reading what she was thinking, because that is what they all do say. On the contrary, she encouraged me to keep using this forum.

Unfortunately, my husband has to be there, to translate for me. Any French I know, seems to go out of the window, so to speak. Anyway, he started to say: but why do you need a formal diagnosis? What will it acheive? Well, let me see, nts thrive on formal diagnostics that is why.

 

[Bolletje]

In Paris, yes, but not in a little village as the one I live in. [...] Paris is multicultural and so, it is easy to get a diagnosis there. But, I live in an area of France that is considered not French Bretegne and so, the laws are different and I know that when you say aspergers and they say they have heard of it; they actually think of classic autism and I know I do not have that.

Suzanne, it's quite a big leap from doctors in your area not being too familiar with Aspergers, to saying Aspergers is not recognized in France. Yes, a lot of doctors are misinformed or laughably unaware of what Aspergers looks like, even more so in adult women. But that doesn't mean there are no doctors around that do know what they're talking about. If you're serious about getting diagnosed I would suggest you do as @Katleya said, and look for doctors specialized in autism, instead of pottering about with psychiatric nurses. You might have to travel, sure. You also said your current establishment is free, but what good is that when the doctors working there don't know what they're talking about? If I have a serious illness, I'd rather travel for a few hours to the doctor specialized in treating it, than visit the free clinic around the corner and hope for the best. This is no different.

 

[Katleya]

With people like Suzanne "riding the point", who will be able to tell us firsthand whether those she encounters in France continue to "shake their head" or not at the prospect of autism.

I did say in my first paragraph that most psychiatrists were behind. Very far behind. And those psychiatrists are the ones who aren't specialized.
But: seeing a non-autism psychiatrist hoping to get a diagnosis is like going to a bakery to buy some meat; it's just not going to happen. Doesn't mean that meat is not sold in the country.
Same for autism: saying that it is not recognized in the country is still a false claim. And it will set Suzanne up to become a victim of doctors, if she keeps on seeking the wrong doctors, possibly with dire consequences (I would know: I was hospitalized for months after seeing the regular psychiatrists at a hospital). I'm sure nobody wants to play an active part in that.

And I'm riding out the point in France as well. As are many other women throughout the country, it's not a Paris thing. They even have non-profits for outreach, and to help other adult Aspies on the way to diagnosis. That's why I'm so adamant that Suzanne CAN get the help she needs, because it exists. But maybe not universally, with thousands and thousands of doctors and no waiting list or free diagnosis, because that doesn't really exist even in the most advanced countries regarding autism.

As for the president, not getting my hopes up. His social policies and the approach pf his government on health and disabilities are so cynical and backwards that he's probably going to manage to undo what little progress had been made in the last 2 years. And he firmly believes autism is a childhood problem, so us adults get left out on the side as usual.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Do you think I should use surge pricing on my fireworks?

 

[Suzanne]

Suzanne, it's quite a big leap from doctors in your area not being too familiar with Aspergers, to saying Aspergers is not recognized in France. Yes, a lot of doctors are misinformed or laughably unaware of what Aspergers looks like, even more so in adult women. But that doesn't mean there are no doctors around that do know what they're talking about. If you're serious about getting diagnosed I would suggest you do as @Katleya said, and look for doctors specialized in autism, instead of pottering about with psychiatric nurses. You might have to travel, sure. You also said your current establishment is free, but what good is that when the doctors working there don't know what they're talking about? If I have a serious illness, I'd rather travel for a few hours to the doctor specialized in treating it, than visit the free clinic around the corner and hope for the best. This is no different.

It may seem a big leap, but well, I have lived here for close to 16 years and Paris is vastly different to other parts of France and where I live, they really do not consider themselves French. They speak French etc, but there are rules here, that do not exist in France overall.

Yes, no doubt if I went further afield, I might get a proper evaluation. However, I do not have a licence and hubby is already going out of his way to accompany me to these local appointments and so, no way, would he travel further afield.

I am not "pottering" about with the psychiatric nurse. I was assigned to see her, because the social worker did not know what to do with me, to be blunt! But it was ascertained that I will stick to my psychiatrist.

When one is extremely social phobic and has to rely on one's partner, then things are different.

When I found I had an overactive thyroid, just in the same area as where I go to see the psychiatrist, there is a place that I could get treated naturally, without all the useless medicine. Oh, it worked to stop me being weak, but my thyroid was up and down with the stupid medicine. But anyway, my husband refused to even take me to this place, so I am hardly going to be able to persuade him to take me further still, when he is so busy with work, he has to reschedual everything.

 

[Bolletje]

So then your husband is the problem, not France.

 

[Suzanne]

seeing a non-autism psychiatrist hoping to get a diagnosis is like going to a bakery to buy some meat; it's just not going to happen.

Just to say, I did not go to get officalised for aspergers, Katleya. I had decided that it is too mentally exhausting to go through the process.

I count myself blessed that I have got this far.

 

[Katleya]

Just to say, I did not go to get officalised for aspergers, Katleya. I had decided that it is too mentally exhausting to go through the process.

In that case, please do not hope that one of the local psychiatrists will magically think of Asperger's and suggest that as a diagnosis. You would be bitterly disappointed.

In my experience, you could be repeating the word Asperger's during every session with a non-autism friendly French psychiatrist, and bringing them a list of traits along with studies, and they would still conveniently ignore it, and happily carry on with psychotherapy and making people talk about their mother. I don't want you to hope for them to have that ah-hah moment you've had (because that's highly unlikely, whether in your are or elsewhere, including Paris), and then be sorely disappointed.
Also, if you ever feel that the psychiatrist you're currently seeing is making you feel guilty about being the way you are, and makes it seem like it's all your fault for putting enough effort into the therapy, that means you will have reached something that's very common with psychiatrists who have no understanding of autism. Just a heads-up.

 

[Suzanne]

In that case, please do not hope that one of the local psychiatrists will magically think of Asperger's and suggest that as a diagnosis. You would be bitterly disappointed.

In my experience, you could be repeating the word Asperger's during every session with a non-autism friendly French psychiatrist, and bringing them a list of traits along with studies, and they would still conveniently ignore it, and happily carry on with psychotherapy and making people talk about their mother. I don't want you to hope for them to have that ah-hah moment you've had (because that's highly unlikely, whether in your are or elsewhere, including Paris), and then be sorely disappointed.
Also, if you ever feel that the psychiatrist you're currently seeing is making you feel guilty about being the way you are, and makes it seem like it's all your fault for putting enough effort into the therapy, that means you will have reached something that's very common with psychiatrists who have no understanding of autism. Just a heads-up.

Not mentioned aspergers to my psychiatrist. It was to the social worker and the psychiatric nurse. In fact, it was my husband who raised all the signals about aspergers, when describing me, but my therapist swept them all away, once hubby mentioned peodophilia and I admit to thinking: oh, I wish you had not mentioned that, because the whole sessions do seem to be centred around the abuse and I have had to say that in fact, the abuse is only a quarter of the issue, as I am dealing with it.

What I hated and even felt angry about, was on seeing me yesterday, the nurse immediately said: were you abused by your father? I thought: do I have it written on my forehead or something? And she had not even looked at my notes yet!

My regular therpist is concentrating on trying to get me to not have social phobia. But the thing is, I know more about it than he does, because I have had to live with it for so long.

I am continuing to say no to medication and they are respecting that.

 

[Judge]

I did say in my first paragraph that most psychiatrists were behind. Very far behind. And those psychiatrists are the ones who aren't specialized.
But: seeing a non-autism psychiatrist hoping to get a diagnosis is like going to a bakery to buy some meat; it's just not going to happen. Doesn't mean that meat is not sold in the country.
Same for autism: saying that it is not recognized in the country is still a false claim. And it will set Suzanne up to become a victim of doctors, if she keeps on seeking the wrong doctors, possibly with dire consequences (I would know: I was hospitalized for months after seeing the regular psychiatrists at a hospital). I'm sure nobody wants to play an active part in that.

And I'm riding out the point in France as well. As are many other women throughout the country, it's not a Paris thing. They even have non-profits for outreach, and to help other adult Aspies on the way to diagnosis. That's why I'm so adamant that Suzanne CAN get the help she needs, because it exists. But maybe not universally, with thousands and thousands of doctors and no waiting list or free diagnosis, because that doesn't really exist even in the most advanced countries regarding autism.

As for the president, not getting my hopes up. His social policies and the approach pf his government on health and disabilities are so cynical and backwards that he's probably going to manage to undo what little progress had been made in the last 2 years. And he firmly believes autism is a childhood problem, so us adults get left out on the side as usual.

You don't make it sound particularly hopeful either. Though if one is ultimately seeking some kind of government financial support, they have no choice but deal with the French medical system and then the government itself to secure whatever benefits might be available.

If you are so adamant that such positive medical assistance is available, perhaps you can provide her with some real referrals of such doctors who are in a position to actually provide a positive diagnosis of autism to their patients that reflects current standards elsewhere such as Belgium, Britain or the United States.

As for France "not recognizing" autism, granted it wasn't to be taken in the most literal sense. However when a nation's medical establishment takes the position that forms of autism are largely a matter of psychosis alone, it might as well equate to the same as not recognizing autism for what it is in the eyes of virtually all other medical establishments among the developed nations.

In the meantime, it will be interesting to see if their medical establishment does somehow begin to change, and with some sense of solidarity rather than reflecting only isolated "pockets" of enlightened psychiatrists operating as if they were part of some "underground railway".

If you wish to argue that point any further, please take it up with the mainstream media who has pressed the same concerns for several years now. Pretty damning stuff out there in the global press as a whole.

France's autism treatment 'shame'

Hopefully things do have a chance of changing there. At least enough for Suzanne to have a chance at least of securing the help she is so sincerely seeking.

 

[Katleya]

If you are so adamant that such positive medical assistance is available, perhaps you can provide her with some real referrals of such doctors who are in a position to actually provide a positive diagnosis of autism to their patients that reflects current standards elsewhere such as Belgium, Britain or the United States.

As a matter of fact, I already did. A year ago. But she chose to go a different route, that is likely to succeed only for her anxiety issues, and I can't force her to do it the way I advised. I can understand how anxiety is a bigger fish to fry, I would have made the same choice if I'd been in the same position. I can only hope it doesn't have bad consequences.

Now, as far as government support goes on medical grounds: that's not something France is good at, and not just for autism. Disability pensions are calculated using an antique system, and leave women largely at a disadvantage. The mindset isn't that a full disability pension, whatever condition(s) it's attributed for, should cover someone's medical expenses, or even provide them financial autonomy, and the current minister in charge of that has been busy declaring that disabled people should not be getting more than the social minimum pension for non active people, which amounts to a third of minimum wage. Also, in most cases, disability "allocations"(not pensions per se, but still a monthly thing that's supposed to top up the pension) are attributed on the basis of what the spouse is making. So, will having a diagnosis help with getting financial help? More than likely not. Social help? Doubt it, that's reserved for people who are elderly and severely debilitated. Me, for instance: I am considered to be more than 80% incapacitated, because I'm lucky to have a severe physical comorbidity. Next category on the grid is vegetative coma. I get next to nothing, and it has nothing to do with the fact that autism is part of my diagnosis, and everything to do with the fact that the French mentality, regarding disability, is to hide it and hope that those people go away or disappear somehow.

I'm not, nor have I ever, arguing that France is not that backwards with regards to autism. It is. It has been for years. But the doctors with adequate training are far from operating as the underground railroad, they're fairly easy to find, in fact. But it's unfair to those doctors to dismiss all of their efforts in bringing more light and awareness on autism to just dismiss their existence because of what the press says. The press isn't always impartial or that well-versed... have they mentioned how the local autism resource centers exist in every administrative region of the country, something that doesn't exist for any other condition? And that they can be reached for any information, sometimes diagnoses, or social support? (Yes, info I'd given already, why would I sit on something helpful like that) Or how most of France has a shortage of doctors, any doctors, for example? Eye doctor, 6 months wait. Gynaecologists almost virtually disappeared for a while. Hospitals are closing down, and the past few weeks have seen people die in the ER across the country for things such as cardiac arrest or... ear infections. The government's response? Money doesn't appear magically.
That's a problem that encompasses way more than the attitude towards autism; of course there will be waiting lists in those conditions.

But what would I know? I've only been navigating the world of psychiatry for 10 years and worked with autism non-profits in France that try to push for a better handling of diagnosis and increased awareness, surely I can't have factual knowledge of the situation.

 

[Suzanne]

So then your husband is the problem, not France.

Yes, but an understandable problem.

 

[Judge]

As a matter of fact, I already did. A year ago. But she chose to go a different route, that is likely to succeed only for her anxiety issues, and I can't force her to do it the way I advised. I can understand how anxiety is a bigger fish to fry, I would have made the same choice if I'd been in the same position. I can only hope it doesn't have bad consequences.

Now, as far as government support goes on medical grounds: that's not something France is good at, and not just for autism. Disability pensions are calculated using an antique system, and leave women largely at a disadvantage. The mindset isn't that a full disability pension, whatever condition(s) it's attributed for, should cover someone's medical expenses, or even provide them financial autonomy, and the current minister in charge of that has been busy declaring that disabled people should not be getting more than the social minimum pension for non active people, which amounts to a third of minimum wage. Also, in most cases, disability "allocations"(not pensions per se, but still a monthly thing that's supposed to top up the pension) are attributed on the basis of what the spouse is making. So, will having a diagnosis help with getting financial help? More than likely not. Social help? Doubt it, that's reserved for people who are elderly and severely debilitated. Me, for instance: I am considered to be more than 80% incapacitated, because I'm lucky to have a severe physical comorbidity. Next category on the grid is vegetative coma. I get next to nothing, and it has nothing to do with the fact that autism is part of my diagnosis, and everything to do with the fact that the French mentality, regarding disability, is to hide it and hope that those people go away or disappear somehow.

I'm not, nor have I ever, arguing that France is not that backwards with regards to autism. It is. It has been for years. But the doctors with adequate training are far from operating as the underground railroad, they're fairly easy to find, in fact. But it's unfair to those doctors to dismiss all of their efforts in bringing more light and awareness on autism to just dismiss their existence because of what the press says. The press isn't always impartial or that well-versed... have they mentioned how the local autism resource centers exist in every administrative region of the country, something that doesn't exist for any other condition? And that they can be reached for any information, sometimes diagnoses, or social support? (Yes, info I'd given already, why would I sit on something helpful like that) Or how most of France has a shortage of doctors, any doctors, for example? Eye doctor, 6 months wait. Gynaecologists almost virtually disappeared for a while. Hospitals are closing down, and the past few weeks have seen people die in the ER across the country for things such as cardiac arrest or... ear infections. The government's response? Money doesn't appear magically.
That's a problem that encompasses way more than the attitude towards autism; of course there will be waiting lists in those conditions.

But what would I know? I've only been navigating the world of psychiatry for 10 years and worked with autism non-profits in France that try to push for a better handling of diagnosis and increased awareness, surely I can't have factual knowledge of the situation.

In most any complex medical bureaucracy there are good doctors and bad ones. No argument there. But when the bureaucracy itself moves in a manner counterproductive to autism in general, it's a disaster. Perhaps it's those few good doctors you speak of who can now lead the charge for real change.

As to whether government can successfully intervene to improve this situation, that remains to be seen. Though that also appears to be another issue we agree upon. Sadly with much skepticism. Time will tell.