So masking? How can you tell the difference between the real you and the masked you?

[Mr. Stevens]

I don't think more/less real is a useful distinction when discussion social personas.

When NTs mask, they are doing something natural (facial expressions, vocal inflections) when the emotion is insincere.

When Autistics mask, they are doing something unnatural (facial expressions, vocal inflections) when the emotion is insincere.

I'd say more/less real is the distinction. This is why NTs find it refreshing when someone is honest, but between Autistics, honesty is the expectation.

 

[Rogue Princess]

There is certainly a mask. Philosophy and psychology are full of people writing about inauthenticity, social pressure, and the decimation of instincts. You see this in Freud, Laing, Sartre, the Cynics, Jesus, and others. It is the whole basis of Shakespeare. And none of that even considers the role of Autistics in a very different society based on conforming (except maybe Laing).

Guess it's just me not understanding something again... I don't know how to wear a "mask". At first I thought people were talking about make up...

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

 

[Hypnalis]

@Mr. Stevens

For most cases I'd put deliberately faking signals into my "phase 3".

That's not all faking of course. A lot of NT counter-factual communication is from people who believe what they're saying. This seems to happen with e.g. ASD/Narcissist combinations too.

IMO many adult ASDs either never really start 3, or don't complete it. But that's where we can "catch up" to NTs, and it's also (IMO) where masking becomes so well integrated that it's always "real". Not always the same - social personas are situational - but I don't think real/unreal is the right way to look at it.

BTW - you might like to look at David Pinsof. I found his content just a few weeks ago, but it's consistent with the way I parse NT communication.

 

[Rodafina]

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Some of the most important tools in the shed are not sharp at all. Sharp ain’t everything.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

@Mr. Stevens

For most cases I'd put deliberately faking signals into my "phase 3".

That's not all faking of course. A lot of NT counter-factual communication is from people who believe what they're saying. This seems to happen with e.g. ASD/Narcissist combinations too.

IMO many adult ASDs either never really start 3, or don't complete it. But that's where we can "catch up" to NTs, and it's also (IMO) where masking becomes so well integrated that it's always "real". Not always the same - social personas are situational - but I don't think real/unreal is the right way to look at it.

BTW - you might like to look at David Pinsof. I found his content just a few weeks ago, but it's consistent with the way I parse NT communication.

Believing something doesn't make it true. There is a big difference between genuinely believing a non-truth, and the kind of divided self seen with Narcissistic individuals. Many would call personality disorders a trauma response. There's no point in comparing this to someone who believes a person is attracted to them when that other son is just being friendly, for example. You're conflating a genuine belief in a lie, with needing to believe a lie.

Always "real" is an absurd phrase. You may as well say behavior induced by Stockholm Syndrome is as real as that of people in sincere, loving families. This is insulting to both groups.

Social personas--or reactions--can be situational, but some situations are more authentic than others. A situation also does not necessarily force us to act a certain way, though we may be less authentic due to imagined fear, for example. Systematizing does not get rid of the nuance in these situations, or the fact that masking is just different between NT and Autistic people. NTs and Autistics talk about these situations differently because we experience them differently. We also socialize differently, which is a big part of the ASD diagnosis. This isn't all imaginary.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

So I have a question about masking... How do you tell the difference between the real you, and the masked you?

Some of these things are very certain of... Cuz I remember actively spending time and developing this outward persona

And I remember how I was before doing this

I've talked to a few people about this over the last year or two without even realizing what I was talking about

I remember telling a good friend that I wasn't really the extrovert that I appeared to be, that in fact, it was a very uncertain introvert

That you only see an extrovert because I know that I need to be one... He said he found that really hard to believe, I explained to him that that meant I had done a really good job becoming this person

That's absolutely exhausting... I don't even want to be an extrovert... Certainly there are many benefits

I know that by being an extrovert I can have many people who see as a friend

But I would be lying if I said I completely understood it... I mean

I mean a really interesting thing that I've been thinking about the last few years is that I don't deal with change particularly well... For instance I had a few friends when I was younger, for whatever reason this friendships stopped... But I remember I didn't understand what I'd done wrong, and I wanted to know how I could fix it and what I could have done better... And I would sit there and try to examine the situation and try to understand What had happened in a logical way... But as my wife appointed out when I chatted with her about it recently, there's no logic to it, these are people

So what I wondered is what part of the mask eventually becomes the person... Or is it never a person and always a mask?

I cannot mask at all.
And I get tired of trying to fit other people's boxes but in some situations it feels necessary to mask to remain polite, fit others etc.
The real you is being yourself all the time and saying what you feel and what you think without others not understanding or judging and being able to chose who to be friends with.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I don't think we necessarily understand all the things we do for masking/compensation. Here is a table of techniques. I was surprised how many of these I have long used.

Strategy Name	Description	Present (1) Absent (0)
Masking
Avoidance	Avoid social situations where you would stand out.
Hold back	Hold back your true thoughts and opinions in conversation (e.g., agree with others even if you disagree with them, tolerate behaviour of others). Hide aspects of your personality that would be deemed different to the norm (e.g., your interests and hobbies).
Suppress	Suppress atypical behaviours (e.g., hand flapping, fidgeting).
Present but passive	Attend social events, even if you would rather not, to give the impression of sociability. Stand in a conversation but say/do as little as possible.
Superficial assimilation	Dress and speak like the group you are trying to blend in with (e.g., copy hairstyle, language, interests).
Basic social etiquette	Reflect basic social etiquette to indicate a willingness to socialise (e.g., smile, manners, look towards other people).
Shallow Compensation
Plan and rehearse	Predict, plan out and rehearse conversations before they happen, out loud or in your head.
Copy/model behaviour	Mimic phrases, gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice picked up from other people and/or TV/film/book characters.
Eye contact	Make appropriate eye contact, even if it is not useful for communication and/or is aversive. Avoid eye contact but give the impression of social interest (e.g., look at bridge of nose, stand at a 90° angle to interaction partner).
Learned scripts, social rules	Enact learned scripts and social rules, even when it may not be appropriate, to guide conversations (e.g., ask others set questions, small talk, laugh at ‘joke cues’, turn-take in conversation).
Guide conversation	Steer conversation to topics you are equipped to talk about (e.g., special interests). Focus conversation on your interaction partner to draw attention away from self.
Rely on others	Attend social events with a more socially skilled individual who can act as a ‘social crutch’ (e.g., introduce you, fill in or disguise your social mistakes, explain social nuances to you).
Reduce social demands	Reduce social demands on yourself in order to disguise any social faux pas (e.g., ‘flit’ between different groups/conversations, engage in 1:1 conversation rather than groups so there are less social signals to read, make use of structured socialising or ‘organised fun’).
Counselling skills	Listen to, repeat and rephrase what your interaction partner says to give the impression of being an ‘good listener’ or ‘adviser’, without having to necessarily mentalise.
Use props	Rely on props (e.g., dog, children, interesting object) to structure and guide conversation. Similar to learned scripts.
Play a false role	Play an exaggerated role or character that is inconsistent with the ‘real you’ (e.g., false confidence, fabricated stories, extraverted personality).
Deep Compensation
Learned non-verbal cues	Use learned rules about non-verbal behaviour (e.g., facial expression, body language, direction of gaze), when it is appropriate, to infer what others are thinking/feeling. For example, inferring that when someone looks at the ground or rolls their eyes, they are bored.
Learned verbal cues	Use learned rules about verbal behaviour (e.g., tone of voice, content of speech) to infer what others are thinking/feeling. For example, inferring that someone who is talking about a funeral with a particular tone is likely sad.
Assess behaviour	Assess someone’s behaviour over time to infer what they are thinking/feeling. For example, if someone re-invites you to a social event, they think positively of you.
Substituted perspective taking	Substitute someone else’s values/preferences/interests with your own or those of a TV/film/book character to infer what others are thinking/feeling. For example, if someone is acting similar to a TV/film/book character in particular situation, infer that they are thinking/feeling how that character would in the same situation.
Logic, context, experience	Predict likelihood of what someone is thinking/feeling based on logic, the context or experience of how that person has previously behaved. Often involves analysing social situations after they have happened and carrying ‘lessons learned’ to the next time the same situation happens.
Flexible catalogue	Flexibly use built catalogue of possible interpretation of others’ thoughts/feelings, based on combination of multiple sources of information (e.g., logic, context, facial expression, tone of voice).
More information or time	Gain more information to increase accuracy of your inference about someone’s thoughts/feelings (e.g., get them to repeat what they have said in a different way, find out about their interests/opinions from others). Gain more time to make a judgement of someone’s thoughts/feelings (e.g., take a well-timed break to consider various interpretations).
Recalibrate	Recalibrate your interpretation of someone else’s thoughts/feelings based on self-awareness of your own cognitive biases (e.g., tendency to perceive neutral expression as anger).
Psychological theory	Apply learned psychological theory to help infer what others are thinking/feeling (e.g., categorise people by personality type).
Accommodation
Play to your strengths	Play to your strengths (e.g., humour, wit, intelligence) to add additional value to conversation with others, despite your social differences.
Be helpful, liked	Go out of your way to be helpful to others, so that your social differences might be forgiven.
Seek ‘atypical’ others	Seek relationships with others who are also socially ‘atypical’ and therefore more accepting of your social differences.
Accommodating environment	Work in an environment where your social differences are actively accommodated (e.g., ‘autism friendly’ workplace) or where non-social skills are valued over social ones (e.g., academia, skill-based job).
Foreign disguise	Live in a foreign country so that your differences are attributed to being foreign by others. Live in your country of birth but seek relationships with others who are foreign, so that your social differences are attributed to cultural differences.
Disclose difficulties	Disclose your difficulties or diagnosis to others so that they can better accommodate you.

So true..often u have to lie about things in order to be polite and not being polite feels horrible like if u don't like a TV show someone watches and loves.
Feeling like you have to understand everyone elses feelings when they want which has been big for me or everyone else's point of view
And also when u are talented that is often what people want to talk about and they do not know you which is not your talents but personality.
So u want to talk about ur talents moderately and personality more. And often I do not like talking about intellectual convo like a walking encyclopedia but it is hard when u like learning things. I like to talk about fun things and be crazy with people who get it.

 

[vergil96]

I'm wondering myself what masking looks like for me, other than hiding sensory issues in order not to be told I'm crazy or oversensitive or attention-seeking etc. I talked with some people online about it who said they don't make faces on purpose and that it could be masking if I do (I think I would look grumpy if I didn't).

It's nothing unique to autism, all people do this unless they're severely mentally ill. Who people are in public is different to who they are at home and that's different again to who they are at work.

I always called it "wearing the face" when I have to present different sides of myself, but it is still myself I'm presenting.

Yes, I also think this is the case, so I don't really know what is unique to autism in that regard. What kind of things are staying hidden? Idk, personally, I think I have very good social skills, I have several overstimulation-related problems, but I have an easy time with making people like me or otherwise behaving in a way that brings a desired result. I don't think much of it, it's intuitive.

I never heard of masking until i joined this site I have always been me. Watching a few u-tube videos on being an Aspie apparently, I am typical.

I first saw it on Youtube.

Substituted perspective taking

Substitute someone else’s values/preferences/interests with your own or those of a TV/film/book character to infer what others are thinking/feeling. For example, if someone is acting similar to a TV/film/book character in particular situation, infer that they are thinking/feeling how that character would in the same situation.

I like fiction books for that reason, nobody ever explains what they're thinking in real life. Not sure if that's autism though, might be, but might be not, I just don't relate to most people in many ways and that remains a closed book for me. Not which emotions they're feeling, but why they feel this way, what is the thought process behind it, my mind works in a different way and I have had different fundamental experiences with many things.

Seek ‘atypical’ others

Seek relationships with others who are also socially ‘atypical’ and therefore more accepting of your social differences.

I've always had an easier time with other oddballs. Because see previous paragraph, if someone is in the majority and is convinced that what they think is obvious, and will never try to explain and will misinterpret over and over - what is the point of having such a friend? People to deal with in professional settings are a different story.

Psychological theory

Apply learned psychological theory to help infer what others are thinking/feeling (e.g., categorise people by personality type).

Not by personality type, but... yeah, that's a quite deep interest of mine.

Is it all masking, though? Isn't it knowledge? Or doing what makes sense in the case of picking friends who you have better contact with?

However, I feel like around certain people or in some situations, I control my behaviour quite heavily and it's exhausting. Every grimace, every small movement, every word. It's very taxing. Becasue some people take everything too personally. For example, I look at the clock, because it's interesting in terms of design, and they will see it as being impatient and wanting to leave. Small things like that. It's a sad and boring world that they live in, that every behaviour can have only one meaning and in which there is no design to pay attention to. I genuinely feel sorry for how limited some people are, not even angry that they attack me for no reason.

When I get overwhelmed, my mom calls it the thousand mile stare. I always have that expression when I’m falling through the cracks. Most of the time, people cannot tell the difference. Only people who know me can recognize the stare. When I tell people I’m autistic, they always say, “I never would’ve thought you had autism.”

Same.

 

[Vindiesel]

Your maladaptive traits are integrated into your subconscious self. To differentiate your core self and these traits are impossible due to your current introspective understanding of yourself to even have fathom this.

Masking is just your personalities plasticity to shift due to interpersonal environment changes to assess, attract or repel data. To some degree this is always changing.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't think I mask that much when not at home. I don't need to. I guess I'm a bit quieter when I'm not at home or around family or partner. But it's not much of a difference for me.
I mask more effortfully (sorry if that isn't a word?) when I'm in public spaces, because I know the hidden rules are very strict and precise in public spaces and I don't like strict or precise rules. In public you have to be emotionless unless you're with other people and are expressing positive emotions but not to the extreme. In public you have to constantly be neutral and become a clone of everyone else and dress casually and be positive. Unless you're a baby or small child, as they have a free pass to act however they like. The rules gradually apply the older a child gets.

 

[TBRS1]

I, personally, blame "masking" for two separate total breakdowns. The stress of constantly holding back my natural inclinations to act, think, express myself in a natural way in order to fit into a tiny, narrowly defined version of "normal" is soul crushing.

The constant calculations that I have to make, the reality that as soon as I "relax" enough to have fun my "true self" comes out and creeps others out...

Well, that stinks badly.

A parallel would be a gay guy, in 1950, being obligated to "fake straight" for survival (yes, literally, to survive) works. There is nothing wrong or creepy in being gay, but the zeitghiest of the time required "masking" for survival, just as the current zeitghiest requires me to keep my hands still, and glue an artificial "cheese face" on my head so people won't constantly ask "are you ok?"

If you want to find out who you truly are, try going into seclusion for a couple weeks (a tent at a campground works). After about three days, you'll know. The other 11 days will just be practice.

 

[vergil96]

The constant calculations that I have to make, the reality that as soon as I "relax" enough to have fun my "true self" comes out and creeps others out...

That makes sense. I've been also told that when I relax I become a different person, namely more socially inept... Not long ago I made friends and I was attacked, because they thought I was a racist and all that but I'm just straightforward and don't beat around the bush, I sometimes make poor wording choices. What were they thinking? They made friends with a computer nerd. Did they think I'm fundamentally different from other nerds...? Wrong. I'm just good at maintaining a surface when needed. But if they're offended and can't stand poor wording and lack of pretty surrounding statements that address all the completely nonsencical interpretations or what is being talked about, what can I do about it? And if someone is different and asks a question why someone did something, that is offensive according to them? You know what, I at least don't promise things and later break these promises in order to avoid the slightest shadow of confrontation and don't tell lies like they do.

 

[TBRS1]

That makes sense. I've been also told that when I relax I become a different person, namely more socially inept... Not long ago I made friends and I was attacked, because they thought I was a racist and all that but I'm just straightforward and don't beat around the bush, I sometimes make poor wording choices. What were they thinking? They made friends with a computer nerd. Did they think I'm fundamentally different from other nerds...? Wrong. I'm just good at maintaining a surface when needed. But if they're offended and can't stand poor wording and lack of pretty surrounding statements that address all the completely nonsencical interpretations or what is being talked about, what can I do about it? And if someone is different and asks a question why someone did something, that is offensive according to them? You know what, I at least don't promise things and later break these promises in order to avoid the slightest shadow of confrontation and don't tell lies like they do.

Currently - at least in the U.S., there isn't much you can say without being accused (read "socially condemned," or "virtue signalled at") of something vile by someone.

Being rude to others is one thing, but I, personally, can get nasty when accused of " implying" something that I am not saying, implying, advocating, bla bla bla, things that are, in fact, antithetical to my own beliefs.

 

[Misty Avich]

People don't generally misinterpret me when I'm interacting, and I don't generally misinterpret them. I can recognise non-verbal cues naturally and I don't need to make conscious calculations to figure it out.
The most masking I do when interacting with people is pretending not to care when someone uses a 'forbidden word' to me. There are a few words I hate people saying but the words aren't actually supposed to be offensive. So I only tell people I'm really close to that I don't like those certain words being used to me. But when friends or colleagues uses the 'forbidden words' I don't want to react, because I don't want to come across as an entitled person who gets offended by everything and expects the world to bow down to me. So that's when my mask comes on and I just smile and move on.

 

[naotakun]

I am very aware of my innate personality and also aware of when I may laugh or agree with someone even when I really don't.
Actions play a big part in masking also.
If someone makes you angry in public or at work, you may feel like telling them off.
But you know if you do it will not end well. So, self -control is part of it.
There have been a few times though where friendships have ended because I couldn't mask any longer when they were insulting or bullyish.
That's when it becomes too exhausting to just smile any longer.
Move on time.

This one really got to me. I am learning so much about masking, and the social mores that we all went through, but I never realized there were others like me.

 

[vergil96]

The thing is that I'm far from being a racist, I analyze people a lot, including various circumstances and the such and if someone isn't actually listening to what I'm saying, they can understand everything backwards. I'm trying to be considerate, but if some topics or words are taboo, how can I be understanding? A lot of people don't actually listen, they just overhear a word or two and make up their own stories from it. Or if you make a statement such as "I'm not a vegetarian, because I don't feel satiated without meat and it doesn't work for me. I'm also too tired with trying to just survive to think it through properly", then someone jumps at you "Why are you promoting such a cruel mindset?". I never promoted anything, I never said others should do the same, I even acknowledged that "it doesn't work for me" =/= "universally bad" or "can work for others".

Being rude to others is one thing, but I, personally, can get nasty when accused of " implying" something that I am not saying, implying, advocating, bla bla bla, things that are, in fact, antithetical to my own beliefs.

Yup, same.

People can be so false sometimes. I'm far from being racist, what comes across as racist, xenophobic, classist etc. or misogynistic in my case - is that I try to actually understand other perspectives and ask questions, people maybe don't like when someone analyses others, because I'm very analytical in these conversations. What I'm talking about all the time is casual conversations with friends, not in the workplace or around a newly arrived immigrant who needs reassurance. The context is very informal and supposedly chill. I also find it hard to believe that it's the first time someone sees an autistic programmer who just doesn't understand people and doesn't mean to be rude, but is a bit socially awkward. But hm, I will talk to and help people who are different than I am - many of those easy to offend people won't. They will talk a lot and then alienate the girl from Africa or the guy from China. It's dishonest.

I can read social cues, it has nothing to do with that. It's about:
- certain people listening only in a shallow manner and warping the sense of what they hear
- certain people valuing prettiness much over facts and practicality
- I admit that I have a hard time finding the right wording sometimes, especially when talking about some new topic

 

[Vindiesel]

Masking vs no masking I’ll just make a video of me acting both in the same context situations. That work?

 

[Judge]

So I have a question about masking... How do you tell the difference between the real you, and the masked you?

Interesting question. I mean, what would have to transpire for someone to be confused about who and what they are simply over selectively masking their traits and behaviors?

The first thing that comes to mind is how under the most taxing social conditions where masking becomes quite physically and emotionally draining to me. Most notably social gatherings like parties put on by your employer where it's anything but fun or leisurely IMO.

In essence, to me my masking is always an intensely deliberate act. When my guard is up as long as I can sustain it, in an attempt to avoid being overly direct that somehow violates all those unwritten social rules in the NT world. To me it's just an act of diplomacy. I don't care about any moral or ethical considerations of whether one considers it a form of lying, subterfuge, etc. . It's just something done to pragmatically avoid ridicule or worse in the name of self-preservation. No more, no less.

Conversely then consider the times when I am physically and mentally exhausted, angry, drunk or high when I am far more prone to project my autistic traits and behaviors when interacting with others. When masking either fails or simply never happens. Often to my own detriment, socially speaking.

I just can't imagine what would have to neurologically transpire for me to be confused about when I am masking to avoid serious confrontation. Whether I'm at my best or worst, I never lose a sense of who and what I really am.

 

[Vindiesel]

Interesting question. I mean, what would have to transpire for someone to be confused about who and what they are simply over selectively masking their traits and behaviors?

The first thing that comes to mind is how under the most taxing social conditions where masking becomes quite physically and emotionally draining to me. Most notably social gatherings like parties put on by your employer where it's anything but fun or leisurely IMO.

In essence, to me my masking is always an intensely deliberate act. When my guard is up as long as I can sustain it, in an attempt to avoid being overly direct that somehow violates all those unwritten social rules in the NT world. To me it's just an act of diplomacy. I don't care about any moral or ethical considerations of whether one considers it a form of lying, subterfuge, etc. . It's just something done to pragmatically avoid ridicule or worse in the name of self-preservation. No more, no less.

Conversely then consider the times when I am physically and mentally exhausted, angry, drunk or high when I am far more prone to project my autistic traits and behaviors when interacting with others. When masking either fails or simply never happens. Often to my own detriment, socially speaking.

I just can't imagine what would have to neurologically transpire for me to be confused about when I am masking to avoid serious confrontation. Whether I'm at my best or worst, I never lose a sense of who and what I really am.

Go into a party or get together with no mask…see what happens… after the comments of are you tired? You upset? Something wrong? Eventually people will leave you alone and you can do your own thing without masking.

 

[Judge]

Go into a party or get together with no mask…see what happens… after the comments of are you tired? You upset? Something wrong? Eventually people will leave you alone and you can do your own thing without masking.

Not acceptable.

You see, the only "parties" I ever attended as an adult were strictly employer-sponsored events in which my presence and participation was mandatory. Observed and sometimes commented by my corporate superiors. Do my own thing? LOL...that would have been simply to leave. Not an option.

Social dynamics I had to deal with even as a child, the son of a Naval Officer who occasionally dragged his whole family to such functions where we each had a "role" to play. Decline? Not an option.

The very term "party" makes me cringe. Something I would never indulge in outside of work or some perception of necessity. Otherwise it wouldn't be a matter of when to leave, but simply not to attend.