Smokers

[kettenkrad]

There are toxic chemicals in vape stuff, and an array of health risks that you cannot filter with your lungs alone.

This is a completely unintelligent statement: there are toxic chemicals in FREAKING BROCOLLI - plants generate natural anti-pesticides to deter insects. They're just not there in significant quantities, which is what what matters. The Royal College Of Physicians says that the maximum risk of vaping tobacco substitutes is 1/20 that of smoking.

As for "an array of health risks" - there are an array health risks with every meal you eat. Again, it's not something intelligent people worry about. They worry about the SIZE of the risk, not how many small risks they're exposed to...

"an array of health risks that you cannot filter with your lungs alone" - the lungs are NOT for filtering. Trust me.

"FDA" - Merka isn't the centre of the world - it's a dysfunctional country with highly politicized bureacracies controlled by lobbyists; at one stage (and maybe still?) USDA was encouraging people to eat corn syrup as part of a heathy diet. The US government has also classified "ketchup" as a vegetable for nutritional purposes. The tobacco lobby is hugely influential in the US and the tobacco companies lose thousands of dollars a year in sale every time someone switches to vaping - vaping costs about 1/10 what smoking does.

In fact eg the much less political NHS does encourage people to vape to give up smoking. The British Heart And Lung Foundation is pro-vaping too.

'Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable cancers.'

Do regulate it instead of suggesting it.

It's hard to understand how anyone can be so confident and so ignorant. Generally speaking, there is no tobacco in vapes. (Microscopic quantities are sometimes used as flavoring: even then, the tobacco isn't burnt, so carcinogenic tar isn't released.) We're back to the "Slip-on shoes don't need laces" paradigm...

Thank goodness my lace less shoes don't make me trip.

I'm glad that you've found something that doesn't...

I have to ask: why are you so compelled to argue about something you know literally nothing about???

 

[All-Rounder]

This is a completely unintelligent statement: there are toxic chemicals in FREAKING BROCOLLI - plants generate natural anti-pesticides to deter insects. They're just not there in significant quantities, which is what what matters. The Royal College Of Physicians says that the maximum risk of vaping tobacco substitutes is 1/20 that of smoking.

As for "an array of health risks" - there are an array health risks with every meal you eat. Again, it's not something intelligent people worry about. They worry about the SIZE of the risk, not how many small risks they're exposed to...

"an array of health risks that you cannot filter with your lungs alone" - the lungs are NOT for filtering. Trust me.

"FDA" - Merka isn't the centre of the world - it's a dysfunctional country with highly politicized bureacracies controlled by lobbyists; at one stage (and maybe still?) USDA was encouraging people to eat corn syrup as part of a heathy diet. The US government has also classified "ketchup" as a vegetable for nutritional purposes. The tobacco lobby is hugely influential in the US and the tobacco companies lose thousands of dollars a year in sale every time someone switches to vaping - vaping costs about 1/10 what smoking does.

In fact eg the much less political NHS does encourage people to vape to give up smoking. The British Heart And Lung Foundation is pro-vaping too.




It's hard to understand how anyone can be so confident and so ignorant. Generally speaking, there is no tobacco in vapes. (Microscopic quantities are sometimes used as flavoring: even then, the tobacco isn't burnt, so carcinogenic tar isn't released.) We're back to the "Slip-on shoes don't need laces" paradigm...



I'm glad that you've found something that doesn't...

I have to ask: why are you so compelled to argue about something you know literally nothing about???

Generally speaking vapes with no nicotine are inexistent, the lowest amount is 5% if you are selective. Nicotine side effects are no better. Neither are the chemicals in vapes.

Just because the name is 'tobacco vapes' and vapes don't have tobacco doesn't make the vape facts and studies any less reliant, neither the illnesses of the people who vaped.

You're trying to get people addicted to a dangerous practice. For someone who doesn't know everything about vaping Im doing a pretty damn good job reading about it and finding things that dismantle it. You know, we can always learn more together. Is that wrong to learn while having a debate? You're probably reading as I type.

Fda has funding issues, and some things it approves are not safe. But some studies are actually conclusive. Besides, can you deny that nicotine is actually very addicting, it increases bp, causes cancer?

When speaking of cigarettes oftentimes sources talk about nicotine because it is a bad substance of cigs too.

I actually studied about addicting drugs a while back because I was curious about them and I had to pick a topic for my thesis. I admit it wasn't anything with so many biased opinions, what I studied was probably from a source offered by the teacher.

I read on my own about smoking and how cigars aren't as safe as cigs, and that vaping is filterless and things pass through directly into the bloodstream. I had wondered what it feels like and studied it, but Im convinced its not worth it to try, but I had asked around about effects of drugs on those who tried them and watched videos of people explaining it. I know that the LSD effects aren't reversible, yet it gives very interesting hallucinations.

 

[All-Rounder]

"Government and educational websites (.gov or .edu), such as those of universities, are your safest bet for finding accurate information with no hidden agenda."
Extensive List of Credibile Websites, Newspapers, Journals


and on the other hand articles state that FDA is unreliable. What a scandal.

 

[kettenkrad]

Generally speaking vapes with no nicotine are inexistent, the lowest amount is 5% if you are selective.

Firstly, you seem to have problems reading. What I said was

It's hard to understand how anyone can be so confident and so ignorant. Generally speaking, there is no tobacco in vapes.

I should obviously have provided you with more help: nicotine vapes contain nicotine (doh) they do NOT (in general) contain tobacco. The dangerous element in tobacco is not nicotine, it is tar. Which vapes don't contain. Because they contain nicotine... Not tobacco. I apologize for overestimating you. See eg

NCI Dictionary of Cancer Terms
Tar contains most of the cancer-causing and other harmful chemicals found in tobacco smoke. When tobacco smoke is inhaled, the tar can form a sticky layer on the inside of the lungs. This damages the lungs and may lead to lung cancer, emphysema, or other lung problems

E-cigarettes | Smokefree
E-cigarettes don't contain tobacco and don't produce tar or carbon monoxide

So again, I have to ask: why are you so compelled to argue about something you know literally nothing about???

(Also, every damn vape seller sells both 3% nicotine vape and nicotine free vape. (A large number of liquids are available only as nicotine free: it's convenient for the buyer and seller because then you add as much or as little nicotine as you like.)

 

[All-Rounder]

I thought it was already obvious I have read they don't contain tobacco since I said nicotine. I even further explained:

"Just because the name is 'tobacco vapes' and vapes don't have tobacco doesn't make the vape facts and studies any less reliant, neither the illnesses of the people who vaped."

 

[kettenkrad]

I read on my own about smoking and how cigars aren't as safe as cigs, and that vaping is filterless and things pass through directly into the bloodstream.

It's nice that you can read. But honestly, if you researched this subject without realizing that nicotine and tobacco are not synonyms, and that the cancer causing agent in tobacco is the tar - the two most basic facts - then I'd suggest that you need to radically improve your reading skills... Especially if you're going to be arrogant enough to give people health advice.

As the saying goes, there can be alternative opinions, but NOT alternative facts - you've completely failed to master the simplest and most basic facts.

 

[All-Rounder]

It's nice that you can read. But honestly, if you researched this subject without realizing that nicotine and tobacco are not synonyms, and that the cancer causing agent in tobacco is the tar - the two most basic facts - then I'd suggest that you need to radically improve your reading skills... Especially if you're going to be arrogant enough to give people health advice.

As the saying goes, there can be alternative opinions, but NOT alternative facts - you've completely failed to master the simplest and most basic facts.

Sure would be a good point but isn't the name 'tobacco vaping' misleading any to you at a first glance?

 

[All-Rounder]

It's nice that you can read.

Right? Thanks. Im quite proud of it. It took me a while to get to doing it besides what I had to do for schools, and not even that.

And now Im holding debates while learning. 1up'd you.

 

[kettenkrad]

Sure would be a good point but isn't the name 'tobacco vaping' misleading any to you at a first glance?

Does anyone but you use this expression...?

Right? Thanks. Im quite proud of it. It took me a while to get to doing it besides what I had to do for schools, and not even that.

And now Im holding debates while learning. 1up'd you.

But the problem is, that you're not learning -

- First you claimed to have already researched this - and talked nonsense

- Then I extensively corrected you - and you talked more nonsense

- And then again

I'd suggest being less proud and more appalled at your ability to spam other people with junk information. If you don't understand something important, then don't tell other people what to do.

RCP advice on vaping following reported cases of deaths and lung disease in the US
The RCP’s 2016 report Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction[6]underlined that people smoke because they are addicted to nicotine, but are harmed by the other constituents of tobacco smoke, and that provision of the nicotine without the other harmful components can prevent most of the harm from smoking. The report noted that the hazard to health arising from long-term vapour inhalation was unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco.

In this case the bad advice you were giving was literally likely to kill people.

 

[All-Rounder]

I actually usually research prior to posting. I admit that I had many points to research currently and some got out of hand. Though that doesn't mean I had no accurate topic. I think you focus too much on my failures. I choose to learn from mistakes and correct when I notice my wrongs. Im actually gonna look things up from the other sources and less from the FDA.

 

[All-Rounder]

What I want to say though is: vaping? Way too biased and not the best for safety, why don't you suggest something better? That's my challenge.

 

[All-Rounder]

Does anyone but you use this expression...?



But the problem is, that you're not learning -

- First you claimed to have already researched this - and talked nonsense

- Then I extensively corrected you - and you talked more nonsense

- And then again

I'd suggest being less proud and more appalled at your ability to spam other people with junk information. If you don't understand something important, then don't tell other people what to do.

RCP advice on vaping following reported cases of deaths and lung disease in the US
The RCP’s 2016 report Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction[6]underlined that people smoke because they are addicted to nicotine, but are harmed by the other constituents of tobacco smoke, and that provision of the nicotine without the other harmful components can prevent most of the harm from smoking. The report noted that the hazard to health arising from long-term vapour inhalation was unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco.

In this case the bad advice you were giving was literally likely to kill people.

But you're missing the point people will die anyway. So your vape isn't changing much. They need an even better suggestion.

I stand against both, it's not me killing the smokers.

I actually understand everything you linked. But it's not good enough for a suggestion and won't be due to some factors that make it rare in the negative sense such as addiction, it's a big factor, and the other non-minor side effects.

 

[kettenkrad]

I stand against both, it's not me killing the smokers.

Actually, it is. If you tell people that an easily adopted alternative that is 20 times safer is just as dangerous, then they won't bother trying it. At which point they'll die earlier than they would have otherwise, because you can't be bothered to learn the difference between nicotine and tobacco.

 

[Jorg]

I started smoking like 7 years ago, at 23yo. None of my brothers did or have done it, and my parents didn't either. But in that time I reach rock bottoms after a social experience and that gave me the highest anxiety I think I reached. I think I wasn't even diagnosed as an aspie back then.

Anyway, I never felt like a huuuge burst for smoking, an average of 4 cigarretes per day, just once I did 7 cigarretes in a day many years ago. But in general I never got completely "hooked".

Since the start of lock down in my country, back in march, I only smoked like 2 cigarretes, last one like 3 weeks ago after I fail a class just before my graduation project.

In general I think the last couple of years I smoked more because of habit than real need, I usually took a cigarrete while I drove, I got used to have a cigarrete on my left hand idk why.

 

[Fino]

Actually, it is. If you tell people that an easily adopted alternative that is 20 times safer is just as dangerous, then they won't bother trying it. At which point they'll die earlier than they would have otherwise, because you can't be bothered to learn the difference between nicotine and tobacco.

You had the option to politely explain everything and gently correct, but instead your behavior in this thread has been embarrassing and you should be ashamed of yourself. You sound like a teenager. And she's responded with great patience.

 

[All-Rounder]

You had the option to politely explain everything and gently correct, but instead your behavior in this thread has been embarrassing and you should be ashamed of yourself. You sound like a teenager. And he's responded with great patience.

I appreciate you, Fino. But someone endlessly deprecating me is not how I view them trying to be patient. Neither is it immature for me to be
defending my views and accepting/correcting my errors.

I understand you're on his side and I feel your opinion won't change. I feel invisible to you in this ordeal but maybe Im not entirely. But I would like to avoid discussing this with you.

 

[Fino]

I appreciate you, Fino. But someone endlessly deprecating me is not how I view them trying to be patient. Neither is it immature for me to be
defending my views and accepting/correcting my errors.

I understand you're on his side and I feel your opinion won't change. I feel invisible to you in this ordeal but maybe Im not entirely. But I would like to avoid discussing this with you.

You've entirely misunderstood me and have somehow perceived everything in the opposite way I intended it. I started out by pointing out to him, not you, that his behavior was embarrassing. I then stated that you, not him, responded with great patience. I think you've been doing great and have set a good example.

 

[All-Rounder]

You've entirely misunderstood me and have somehow perceived everything in the opposite way I intended it. I started out by pointing out to him, not you, that his behavior was embarrassing. I then stated that you, not him, responded with great patience. I think you've been doing great and have set a good example.

Oh, I see. Thanks. I thought 'he's responded with great patience' meant him, because I'm a she. It was probably a typing error.

 

[Fino]

Oh, I see. Thanks. I thought 'he's responded with great patience' meant him, because I'm a she. It was probably a typing error.

Oh okay, now I understand. Sorry about that!

 

[Rectify]

What the hell happened here?! This is what I don't like about life online. It doesn't need to be ****-fight. No need.
(@Rexi and @Fino Good you sorted out that misunderstanding though )