Shut up Greg

[Atrapa Almas]

Yesterday I was suggested this very interesting comic about a guy who tries to interact with his "friends" to just worsen their already bad relation with them:

I feel very identified with Greg, the kind of feedback I got (and get) is not that evident, but the progressive erosion to my relation with others is very similar.

Do you know other autist/mental health artists/comics that I could consider to read?

Thanks.

 

[AprilR]

I have also been in Greg's position so many times. And i currently am hated in the workplace bc of this.

Sorry for trying to be fair and understanding and trying to be a peacemaker i guess!

 

[Mr. Stevens]

The reason people react badly to someone like Greg isn't because he's wrong, it's because they feel judged. Like in the first comic. He presents a reasonable response to the online article, while his friends have black and white views and want their prejudice validated. Greg shows open-mindedness and expresses his view politely, but this isn't good enough because his friends cannot accept disagreement. His "friends" need to grow up.

(Notice the friends exhibit autistic traits, like rigid, black and white thinking, even though they're not autistic.)

 

[Misery]

Do you know other autist/mental health artists/comics that I could consider to read?

That's the comic/artist I'm familiar with.

Also familiar with that scenario too.

 

[Owliet]

I am like Greg. Although I am less likely to get involved in these types of conversations anymore. When I was a teenager, I had a similar interaction like Greg. I remember that this woman and her friends (3–40s) were sitting around in the cafe whilst I was waiting for my mom to finish with her tennis lesson and she was talking about her husband’s former friend. The friend had reported her husband for something serious at work (like stealing or fiddling with accounts or something serious) and he had been (correctly) fired. However, she found out something about the former friend and she wanted to ruin him for what he had done to her husband. It was pretty minor too and it was done when he was a teenager — I think it may have been related to stealing. I didn't think it was fair that she wanted to ruin his life for something that was far back in the past otherwise as teenagers we would all be judged. So, I told her what she wanted to do was also wrong. That revenge was not a good idea And just made her look bad.

I really should Not have said anything but the amount of abuse I received from this grown adult woman in her 30-40s was stupid. I was being holier than thou. That her life was ruined and that I was a stinker.

I don't know if she did do what she was threatening. I hope she didn't but I wouldn’t be surprised if she made that choice. I think it was petty and immature. I still think it is petty and immature. But I‘ve never said anything like that again.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I disliked the people like Greg in the top comic. Overthinking and justification of actions. Ethically, only the actions of X at the time count. Especially if those actions result in an impact upon others, context and history are meaningless. To say otherwise seems like mere rationalization. Because I frequently had to speak truth to power I tended to be blunt and to the point.

 

[Rodafina]

I disliked the people like Greg in the top comic.

But many of us are like Greg.

 

[Rodafina]

Do you know other autist/mental health artists/comics that I could consider to read?

This one is pretty good. I learned about it from another forum member. It’s an anthology and I believe they were originally web comics.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I think it was petty and immature. I still think it is petty and immature. But I‘ve never said anything like that again.

Over the years I am starting to think that people not mature by age. Maybe by experiences in life? I dont know.

 

[Rodafina]

 

[Slime_Punk]

I'm definitely Greg, but I like the other Gregs and Gregettes here so it's cool

 

[Rodafina]

I'm definitely Greg, but I like the other Gregs and Gregettes here so it's cool

The Gregettes. That’s so awesome.

New idea for a comic: The Gregs and Gregettes Save the World.

 

[Jordy]

I wonder if people who are great at rationalizing and making excuses for someone else's immoral actions do the same for themselves.

 

[Rodafina]

I wonder if people who are great at rationalizing and making excuses for someone else's immoral actions do the same for themselves.

I don’t. I am much harder on myself than others for some reason. I wish I showed the same patience and understanding for myself that I do to others. But I’m trying to get there.

For the record though, I don’t seek excuses. I seek explanations and understanding.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

Do you know other autist/mental health artists/comics that I could consider to read?

I've recommended Schnumn (Bex Ollerton) before, but I'll do it again here. I really like her Lavender clouds series on the autistic experience. She also created a short comic on ADHD + Autism (ADHD Autism: Let's Dig In!) and was the originator and driving force behind the Sensory: Life on the spectrum collection which @Rodafina mentioned. I really like the clear style and introspective (rather than hunorous) tone. There's a lot I can relate to. Here are a few examples from the Lavender clouds series:

I feel very identified with Greg, the kind of feedback I got (and get) is not that evident, but the progressive erosion to my relation with others is very similar.

This is the reason why I tend to be so conflict avoidant. I know most people simply aren't interested in having their biases challenged so I prefer staying out of the discussion if I disagree with someone. I've been burned enough, and to be honest, it's a lesson I learned quite early in elementary school. Keeping your mouth shut is simply safer than causing conflict, especially when your in person social skills and off the cuff thinking aren't the best. That's something I like about science; Criticism is mostly focused on the research rather than people, and it needs to be based on facts and knowledge if you want people to take you seriously.

I wonder if people who are great at rationalizing and making excuses for someone else's immoral actions do the same for themselves.

To me it isn't about making excuses for others' actions, it's understanding them. I feel uncomfortable judging others for their actions if I don't understand the reason they behave a certain way, and I also feel somewhat uncomfortable when people talk down others from a biased viewpoint. To answer your question, I also spend a lot of time understanding my own actions as it's not so clear to myself a lot of the time, especially when I have regrets. To me, "immorality" doesn't enter the picture much. It's more about how un/reasonable people's behaviour is, or how much other people are being hurt.

 

[Jordy]

I don’t. I am much harder on myself than others for some reason. I wish I showed the same patience and understanding for myself that I do to others. But I’m trying to get there.

For the record though, I don’t seek excuses. I seek explanations and understanding.

In the comic picture the person talks about how in general they are unable to judge someone's morality without knowing all the context. Implying that in general even when someone does something that on a surface level seems like a clear cut immoral thing, there may be context that would make it not or less immoral. That is a diffirent a message from "you should try to understand why a person did a thing that is immoral".

Now if someone thinks that often when a person does something that seems clearly wrong (lying, stealing, cheating, abuse whatever) it may not actually be that wrong because that person may have a reason for doing it, does that mean they would also give themselves the excuse to do the same if they (by their own opinion) had a good reason for it? If i think that it's not wrong for a poor person to steal, it would only make sense that i also believe it is right for me to steal if i were to become poor myself.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

In the comic picture the person talks about how in general they are unable to judge someone's morality without knowing all the context. Implying that in general even when someone does something that on a surface level seems like a clear cut immoral thing, there may be context that would make it not or less immoral. That is a diffirent a message from "you should try to understand why a person did a thing that is immoral".

But in the comic, Greg isn't saying he is unable to judge people's morality in general, just that in this specific instance (when all the context he has is an action some person performed, that one of his friends is a fan of said person, and another friend dislikes them) he doesn't have enough context to judge. I have been in Greg's situation numerous times when I see others having strong opinion on a person, but I lack the context to judge the situation myself, or information gets presented from a biased source. We simply don't know if the situation presented is a "clear cut immoral thing". If anything, it's doubtful to be so clear cut since his friends have such different perspectives on it.

 

[Luca]

Seeing this comic of Greg gives me some insight as to why a lot of people don't like me. I am definitely a Greg and I think that upsets a lot of people.
I try to give everyone a chance, and if I don't like them I have to come to that conclusion on my own.

 

[Magna]

Interesting. I've been like Greg in the past, specifically causing a gradual degradation in friendships until they don't exist anymore but not in the same way that Greg was in that comic. For me it was because my contribution to the friendships was no longer sustainable due to me not knowing how to to contribute in new and meaningful ways.

I'm thinking specifically about some of the closest friendships I had in my late teens and early twenties. Best friends who also became roommates. It's like I didn't know who I was and after being friends with both of them for about five years it's like a "ran out of material/content" or momentum. I started to purposely annoy them, imitate them for comedic effect. Originally they were amused but that went away quickly and I continued because I didn't know what else to do. It's always been hard for me to take life seriously, even now because so much of it seems absurd. Perhaps it was immaturity back then as the underlying reason for the loss of the friendships and perhaps a certain amount of immaturity remains in me today.

 

[Rodafina]

@phantom ,
I do see what you’re saying here. I think we may be substantially different in this way, but I definitely take your point.

In the comic picture the person talks about how in general they are unable to judge someone's morality without knowing all the context. Implying that in general even when someone does something that on a surface level seems like a clear cut immoral thing, there may be context that would make it not or less immoral.

I do not think I am in a position to judge the morality of other’ actions. I don’t really believe in morality as a clear cut concept. I think morality is defined by a huge array of complexly intertwined factors like culture, life experience, neurotype, and social circumstances.

That is a diffirent a message from "you should try to understand why a person did a thing that is immoral".

So I guess I think both. I think I am not in a position to judge morality and, for things that do feel wrong to me, I think my goal is to understand.

Now if someone thinks that often when a person does something that seems clearly wrong (lying, stealing, cheating, abuse whatever) it may not actually be that wrong because that person may have a reason for doing it, does that mean they would also give themselves the excuse to do the same if they (by their own opinion) had a good reason for it? If i think that it's not wrong for a poor person to steal, it would only make sense that i also believe it is right for me to steal if i were to become poor myself.

I see your point here, too. I think my same logic applies though. I hold myself to my own moral standards and I abide by them, but I do not assume that my moral standards align with others.

In this way, I can see that I am being a bit hypocritical. I will seek understanding and explanation for why others do things that feel wrong, but I will hold myself strictly to what I consider a high standard of morality. I will concede, however that my version of moral standards may be substantially different than your own.