Should I suicide if no-one cares or loves me in life?

[dragstone]

Alonenotlonely is, however, right. suicide is the cowards way out, and it is a selfish move. theres no way you can convince anyone that you are just "retiring" from life in good order, or that you think your life ran its course. they would never, ever, accept that. they would only see the person as a coward for surrendering to death instead of sticking around to fix it, and hurt everyone around them.

There is nothing cowardly about suicide. It takes an immense effort to override survival instincts, thankfully. And living only for the sake of others is not enough. One needs to have their own reason for living as well, that isn't based on the perceptions and feelings of others. Coward is not the word I would use. It is a misguided attempt to escape pain. That's it. There are only a few examples in life that would warrant suicide. If you murder someone, for example, your life is basically over. It takes a particularly heinous act to warrant killing oneself.

 

[Otenba]

It sounds like what you should do is learn how to love yourself first if you feel there is no love in your life at all.

I have to disagree I have unconditionally loved others to get nothing in return.

It's not unconditional if you were expecting something in return.

I do not think you should kill yourself over no love existing in your life because it is possible to change this, starting with learning how to love yourself, and practicing self kindness.

I'm glad you reached out here instead of acting on those thoughts. Best wishes.

 

[Monachopia]

I don't think suicide will solve anything. It just makes everything stop, you stop existing and regardless of what you may think, people you may not even think of, will be hurt and confused. I often think about suicide and like yourself I don't have any friends. I'm lucky in that I have an understanding partner, but that's all. I feel like a burden to him, but even if I didn't have him in my life, I probably wouldn't choose to stop existing. We only have one life, and it can be filled with so much learning, hobbies, things that give meaning to an otherwise meaningless existence. I want to keep learning, even if it's just for myself to know and to die with me when I do eventually pass. We can help others, be it with charitable actions or trying to teach and help others through some forum such as this. You are useful and you mean something. You can find something that drives you to keep going no matter how small it may be. Keep living. You never know what tomorrow may bring.

 

[Fino]

I feel a little odd commenting for the first time in this thread when it's gone so far, like I'm shouting into a crowd or over the sound of a helicopter or somethin!

I also thought it was odd that I didn't comment immediately. I was online when the thread was made and have been reading the thread regularly since then. If there was any single thought, a theme that runs through my life, it would be suicide, but I still never had any thoughts when I came to this thread!

Until now, apparently!

When I think back to when I was suicidal, truly and totally consumed by the possibility, often the planning, of my impending next attempt, I remember what I felt, the thought processes that dominated my life, and my automatic responses to the world--and when I remember that state, I imagine that if I were to make this thread in those desperate, empty times, and I received these comments, the majority of them would make me want to throw up over and over again in great retching heaves.

I don't mean that to be insulting! Which might make you think, "How could something so insulting not be intended as insulting???" You'd ask it with three question marks!!

The problem, in my opinion, is the advice of a person who never seriously contemplated suicide or never made a serious attempt, is going to automatically be missing any quality beyond "caring". It's nice. It's thoughtful. It's appreciated and loving.

But is it useful?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think not.

Now, his original post is short and specific. The first thing I did was consider it separate from him as an individual.

If someone has no friends or family that care about him, is suicide acceptable?

The hackneyed response to suicide is typically, "Think of all the people you will hurt."

He's removed that from the equation. What now prevents him from committing suicide?

The intrinsic value of life? Is that a thing?

A God? Does he believe in God?

Because it will get better? It will? Or will it get worse? Even if it were guaranteed to get better, is that reason enough to live? When will it get better? In a decade? How much better? How long will it be better for before it gets worse again? Is the purpose of life to experience joy? And so he's obligated to continue existing until that happens?

Is death really nothingness?

Is anything really known?

Do we exist?

The concept that suicide is cowardly reminds me of an army sergeant. To me, this idea implies that life is this thing you're trying to win. There's fighting, because we're in a war. Life is a struggle and suicide is giving up. Where did this come from? Capitalism, perhaps? You coward, you stopped fighting!

Is suicide brave? The courage to leave? Have you ever stood atop a building with the intention to jump? Have you ever taken several handfuls of pills as you continue to take more, just to be sure? Your throat is closing off, the water is dripping, but you don't think that's enough to die. Cram them down, maybe your tears can assist in the lubrication!

Suicide is not cowardly.

Abuse is cowardly. Drug abuse is cowardly. Many things are cowardly, but not suicide.

The majority live by virtue of ignorance. Is that bravery?

Is suicide objectively wrong? What if the entire human race were to commit suicide? Would that be objectively bad?

So in the end, what's hopeful about any of this? Why haven't I killed myself? I've tried countless times. Why have I stopped trying?

My reason is, "I don't know."

It's not my answer, it's my reason. I'm not saying I don't know. I choose to live because how of little I know.

He said in his original post something about "if every day is going to be the same." Predictions like this seem so obvious. I've made the same prediction so many times. I was never right.

I can't say for certain that we won't all suddenly vanish into nothingness at any moment, or that this isn't a test to get into "Heaven," or if everything isn't meaningless beyond the meaning we invent, or if everything hasn't already occurred simultaneously and our minds are perceiving it linearly in slow-motion, or if we're in a snow-globe held by another race and when they shake it we have natural disasters, or... anything.

We don't know anything! God IS Unknown.

Can anything be known?

I don't know! Why do you think there are so many question marks in this post? Questions are all I've got!

But back to your question, "If no friends or family, should we kill ourselves?" Because it really is "we," it's a philosophical question that applies to everyone.

When suicidal, people used to tell me, "Think of how that will affect this person or that person," and I always thought of THEM as selfish. So I have to live for them? My existence is to prevent them from experiencing pain?

I think that whether or not we have people who care about us isn't relevant to whether or not we should commit suicide. It could certainly be a contributing factor to the feeling, but as a philosophical point, I'd argue that they're unrelated.

As to whether or not you specifically should commit suicide, I don't know. I don't believe anyone should tell people what they should or should not do, no matter the subject.

Obviously, I'd prefer if you didn't. Suicide makes me sad, and we both have tattoos, and you seem really nice and nice people are my favorite.

But why should my opinion matter? Is it to guilt you into not doing it?

I don't know.

I don't know anything!

How long have I been typing? Was any of this potentially helpful? Did I make any sense? Will anyone be offended? These are questions for myself now.

I imagine the world as a void and the places I go to that I've never been, the things I learn I never knew, the people I meet I had never known, light up this void with sparkles of tiny lights. Everyday the void grows brighter, and one day it will probably blind me, and maybe that's what Heaven is!

Someone mentioned medication.

I find it fascinating the impact the chemicals in our brains have on our thoughts, our beliefs, our conclusions, everything.

I used to entertain myself by observing my thoughts when sober compared to when high.

When sober, I logically constructed sets of nihilistic beliefs that led to self-harm and suicide as the inevitable conclusion.

Then I'd take a drug and logically construct sets of positive beliefs that led to loving all and loving myself as the inevitable conclusion.

And each set of conclusions was equally real, equally valid, and equally consuming, as far as I could tell.

I think that's all I have to say, or maybe I just got tired.

I hope you feel something better soon, if you haven't already!

Bye!

 

[Fino]

Here's the short version.

Reason for living: Insufficient data.

 

[Fino]

I enjoyed this video and I feel like it expresses some of what I'm trying to express, but I'm not sure how. Obviously it's not proof of God, so don't worry about that part. It's just really cool!

 

[SusanLR]

Here's the short version.

Reason for living: Insufficient data.

Agree.
Holding and contemplating the way I had chosen,
I found I was too much of a coward to do it due to this insufficient data.
I chose the known (life) over what I don't know (death)
although I cannot escape death. No one can.
Will all the things we learn, experience, love, really matter when and however death comes?
I don't know either.
If you have no family or friends, you will be nothing more than a paragraph in the Obits.
Unless you are some celebrity. That means nothing to me for myself.
If you do have family or friends, how much does it matter then?

I think that whether or not we have people who care about us isn't relevant to whether or not we should commit suicide. It could certainly be a contributing factor to the feeling, but as a philosophical point, I'd argue that they're unrelated.

As to whether or not you specifically should commit suicide, I don't know. I don't believe anyone should tell people what they should or should not do, no matter the subject.

But when it came right down to the moment, I found myself afraid, a coward.
Selfish? Isn't everyone to a certain degree?
That's why love is not unconditional. We all want something back from from our actions.
Even if it's to make ourselves feel good about what we did for someone.
There are always reasons for our actions.

 

[Dias]

This topic for me is very personal, everyone has different opinions and even our personal opinion about it changes as we grow older, learn and experience different things.
We can only give personal opinions, none of us know anything with 100% certainty.
My personal experience is that I thought about it many times and I am glad I didn't do it. Everyday I can find something positive if I open my eyes to see it.
I never had friends and my family and I just don't connect...but I am learning not to put my happiness in other people's hands and I just try to find motivation to keep on going because I believe that in the end it will still be worth it. Life is not a bed of roses for anyone why should it be for me?
For me it works thinking like this:
I believe in karma and reincarnation, that means that if I terminate this life now I am just waisting 42 years of suffering and learning just to come back again and go through all this again...It does not look like a good deal to me...
But as I said, it works for me now, but it was not always like this.
Taking anti depressives also helps me...

 

[Nauti]

You have so much to learn! I think you would be ripping yourself off by opting out. It's not loving at all, it's violence to yourself, it's not a "moral" thing to do, except in exceptional circumstances. But you don't want judgement, I know that, you want compassion, understanding and comfort.

I didn't find someone to care about me until I was 37. You are only 25, you are so young. If you were in unbareable physical pain, sure quality of life is a right and if quality of life drops too far, it's mercy killing, but emotional pain? Can be worked through.

You want the pain to end don't you? Well focus on addressing the pain and you will make inroads into alleviating it. It takes work, focus, commitment, endurance, trying new things, getting curious about what can be done and trying all sorts of things, facing discomfort, even if it's excruciating.

It doesn't sound like you do love yourself, to be honest, if you are thinking of violence to yourself.
I agree that suicide is complex, it takes courage but it's generally misguided. I don't believe we escape the pain, I think we take it with us. DMT taught me that. We release DMT when.we die, from our pineal gland. It's an out of body experience and a kind of mini death. It showed me that I am not my body, that I am consciousness and that feelings are more intense when the consciousness is not focused from within the physical realm and connected to body awareness.

What if the existance pain is worse if you destroy the body?-.Maybe that is what "hell" is? Or what if you end up a quadriplegic by trying? It's very risky and might just make your pain a whole lot worse, trying.

I have lost a few friends to suicide and it's a terrrible, terrible thing for the community you leave behind. My friends all left children behind. I could never do that.

I get treatment for my problems. There are kind people out there. If you keep looking, you will surely find them. It's a matter of not giving in to hopelessness and despair. They are viceful emotional states and thinking patterns.
There are always options. If you think you have no choices, you are limiting yourself and it's just not true.

I had to get services to help me and sure, they are not ideal, but if you have no friends and family, then professionals are worth a try. If they are no good, try other's, and if that doesn't work out, peers on the internet could make all the difference. Even homeless people can be good to talk to, sometimes.

I used to self harm, starved myself for years, battled extreme alcohol abuse as a teen, was homeless, have been.abused A LOT, hideously, it nearly killed me. And when you are on the brink of death, it can make you aware of how precious life is and that it IS worth fighting for and trying EVERYTHING brings results!

The way out of depression is ACTION. Make plans, make lists and act on them. Try different supplements. SAMe can help with depression. I would never take pharmy drugs other than a bit of pain relief sometimes and valium sometimes as I have PTSD. The other drugs seem to have a lot of long term health effects that aren't good.

Herbs can work too. They are lots of things out there that can slowly but surely, make life more bearable.

But I get the sadness and grief of loneliness, I really do. It's very, very painful, especially when you have SO MUCH love to give (and I can.tell you do).

I find art forms help a lot. I write poetry, songs, sing (I've done a lot of singing) paint, write daily, draw, that sort of thing. It helps me a lot. Helps me feel a sense of self, of positive identity. We need that, to go out and feel confident enough to put ourselves out there, socially.

I am in a psych hospital at the moment. It's not so bad, there are beautiful people in here. Connecting with other's who are struggling helps. They get it. And some of the staff are caring and gentle and kind souls and that is precious.

To meet kind people? It's a miracle to me, because I've received a lot of unkindness and lack of care in my life.

I know loneliness and it's pretty unbearable in the long term, that's for sure, so I made the commitment that I would get out there. Go learn new skills, go to the gym, do classes, do therapy, I will never go back to wallowing in loneliness and unbearable emotional pain again. I love myself too much now. I've worked SO HARD and for SO LONG to find some happiness, self acceptance, appreciate beauty and goodness in myself and others and nature and life. It's just too diverse and there is SO MUCH I don't know yet. No I could not choose to force death, it will come soon enough, just naturally.

Loneliness is hard, but reaching out takes courage, more courage than trying to kill the pain and it's the answer, because you just don't know what's out there until you get out there and make those changes, yourself.

End the pain, don't end yourself. Its doable, at least ease the pain, so it's bearable. Then you will bring more courage, knowledge and resiliance into the world and share your beautiful soul with a world in desparate need of all the beautiful souls it can get. Don't take that away, we need you here, with us, stick it out, with us other struggling, muddling, autisticy, oddball misfits!

If I am rambling, well I had 20 ml of valium so I can hack one more night in.this psych hospital, it's tough going right now, so I hope you forgive my drugged out rambling. I mean well. Take care and lots of love @guitarandtattoos, I mean it. Love is definitely the way forward and it pays off in the end, just BE PATIENT AND PERSISTENT, you'll get what you want and need in the long run.

 

[Streetwise]

if !you do it !and you've been taking prescription medication !your life will be very hard afterwards !as your GP may make the connection that the prescription medication caused you're suicide! I did it and survived and now I have no control over the amount of medicine I am given, you are viewed as almost a criminal that is how I feel .
someone else I know has to visit her GP every single day ,to be prescribed one tablet ,imagine having to visit your GP every single day .I now only receive 14 tablets per prescription ,I am shattered,three years on and I feel worse for it .I don't think my liver appreciated an overdose,a common side-effect is brain-damage from overdosing.

 

[Autistamatic]

I'll keep this short (for me). I have experienced some terrible lows in my life. I have been abused, betrayed, stolen from and bullied. I've battled with depression most of my life. I have never once contemplated suicide. It has never even fleetingly crossed my mind.
In my endless introspective reveries, examining my life from start to finish, I know that all the low points in my life, all the failures were in some fashion, partially of my own making. I don't think I deserved to be treated the way I was, but I always know that there are things that I could have done differently.
So I learn from those mistakes, large and small, and resolve not to repeat them. If I am to find my answers, if I am to get things right, I can't do that from beyond the grave, so it's not an option.
However low I have been I have always remembered that parts of my life have been happy. In small doses I had felt secure and wanted. I had enjoyed successes as well as failures. Learning from both would eventually lead to the successes outnumbering the failures.
I was 35 when I met my wife and she is my reward for keeping on learning and staying in this world, even in my most desperate hours of unhappiness.
You see when we think nobody would miss us we are usually wrong, but even if we are right, that only applies to the here and now. If I had opted out back when I was 25 I would never have met her when I was 35. If I had opted out she wouldn't feel as loved and cherished as she does now. She would have no-one to care for her when she is unwell, would have had no-one to help her make meringue kisses this morning.
No-one might miss you now, but there may be someone who will not be loved because the someone who could have been there for them didn't wait around to meet them. Children may not be born because their father stopped existing before siring them. Music may not be written, friends will not be made and lives will not be enriched by the man full of unconditional love who took that love away too soon.

 

[Misery]

I'll keep this short (for me). I have experienced some terrible lows in my life. I have been abused, betrayed, stolen from and bullied. I've battled with depression most of my life. I have never once contemplated suicide. It has never even fleetingly crossed my mind.
In my endless introspective reveries, examining my life from start to finish, I know that all the low points in my life, all the failures were in some fashion, partially of my own making. I don't think I deserved to be treated the way I was, but I always know that there are things that I could have done differently.
So I learn from those mistakes, large and small, and resolve not to repeat them. If I am to find my answers, if I am to get things right, I can't do that from beyond the grave, so it's not an option.
However low I have been I have always remembered that parts of my life have been happy. In small doses I had felt secure and wanted. I had enjoyed successes as well as failures. Learning from both would eventually lead to the successes outnumbering the failures.
I was 35 when I met my wife and she is my reward for keeping on learning and staying in this world, even in my most desperate hours of unhappiness.
You see when we think nobody would miss us we are usually wrong, but even if we are right, that only applies to the here and now. If I had opted out back when I was 25 I would never have met her when I was 35. If I had opted out she wouldn't feel as loved and cherished as she does now. She would have no-one to care for her when she is unwell, would have had no-one to help her make meringue kisses this morning.
No-one might miss you now, but there may be someone who will not be loved because the someone who could have been there for them didn't wait around to meet them. Children may not be born because their father stopped existing before siring them. Music may not be written, friends will not be made and lives will not be enriched by the man full of unconditional love who took that love away too soon.

I'm going to second this. Particularly the bit about having some fault in many things. It's too easy for people to look back on something bad that happened, and blame literally everything that ISNT themselves. In by far the vast majority of cases, SOME fault is with the individual. Not always, of course. Things like disease or, I dunno, a tornado or something, obviously don't fit into that category. But a great many things do.

Like you, I look back on many problems I've had, and for most of them, at least part of each could be traced back to either something I did, or something I could have done but didn't. Of course the problem is actually spotting any of that. Often it takes a long time before the realization will randomly hit me.

It all just shows though that no situation is ever as simple as it seems. There's always more to it whether you spot that or not.

 

[Fino]

I'll keep this short (for me). I have experienced some terrible lows in my life. I have been abused, betrayed, stolen from and bullied. I've battled with depression most of my life. I have never once contemplated suicide. It has never even fleetingly crossed my mind.
In my endless introspective reveries, examining my life from start to finish, I know that all the low points in my life, all the failures were in some fashion, partially of my own making. I don't think I deserved to be treated the way I was, but I always know that there are things that I could have done differently.
So I learn from those mistakes, large and small, and resolve not to repeat them. If I am to find my answers, if I am to get things right, I can't do that from beyond the grave, so it's not an option.
However low I have been I have always remembered that parts of my life have been happy. In small doses I had felt secure and wanted. I had enjoyed successes as well as failures. Learning from both would eventually lead to the successes outnumbering the failures.
I was 35 when I met my wife and she is my reward for keeping on learning and staying in this world, even in my most desperate hours of unhappiness.
You see when we think nobody would miss us we are usually wrong, but even if we are right, that only applies to the here and now. If I had opted out back when I was 25 I would never have met her when I was 35. If I had opted out she wouldn't feel as loved and cherished as she does now. She would have no-one to care for her when she is unwell, would have had no-one to help her make meringue kisses this morning.
No-one might miss you now, but there may be someone who will not be loved because the someone who could have been there for them didn't wait around to meet them. Children may not be born because their father stopped existing before siring them. Music may not be written, friends will not be made and lives will not be enriched by the man full of unconditional love who took that love away too soon.

Hey, you just proved me wrong, with no apparent intention to do so!

1. You never once contemplated suicide.
2. Helpful words followed.

I love being wrong! It's like aggressive learning.

 

[Breezy19]

Hey buddy . Look I been in a similar situation it ain't worth it . You give up now you can't get those things you lack and as you have no family who do you expect to take care of your funeral services that's a burden you're passing on . Not to mention you'll be facing probably the same struggles I am if you fail to kill yourself . It's not easy to put your life back together and earn back everyone's trust or even get yourself back into the routine of actually living life hell I still haven't fixed my broken friendships . It's not something to be taken lightly and I hope that even if you don't have anyone to miss you offline you realize you would be missed here.

 

[Bronzelincolns]

I find it hard to believe that someone who says they love themselves would contemplate taking their own life.

How does that work?

 

[guitarandtattoos]

I find it hard to believe that someone who says they love themselves would contemplate taking their own life.

How does that work?

@Bronzelincolns Haven't really been on this thread anymore because I refuse to come here and argue with anyone about anything and I don't have anything to prove to anyone.

But, I would like to say you can love yourself and not love a situation, There are things that are out of our control sometimes and we can never change. They're not always good or the right situations.

In my opinion loving yourself mean accepting your flaws and embracing who you are. treating yourself well, not being so hard on your self. Being aware of any insecurities and being there for yourself and positively try to change them. Taking care of yourself and your body whether it's eating good or exercising.

These are all things that I put continuous effort in and I am rather well at despite circumstances.

 

[Judge]

But, I would like to say you can love yourself and not love a situation, There are things that are out of our control sometimes and we can never change. They're not always good or the right situations.

I would tend to agree with that. Your self-image isn't necessarily exclusive to how the outside world may be treating you. Though in spite of such things, I like to think that life remains incredibly dynamic.

Where one's fortunes can suddenly (even for no reason) change "on a dime". Enough so that it's worth simply gambling on the possibility of things changing for the better for you at some point. Not that it will happen, but that it could happen yet with no unrealistic guarantees. And likely when you aren't expecting it. So, yeah, stick around. You never know what better fortune you may encounter.

Maybe it's what Billy Joel was singing about. "Don't forget your second wind". As silly as the video may appear, the song is actually about his own bout with suicide. A time when he despaired about making himself a success in the brutal world of entertainment:

You're having a hard time and lately you don't feel so good
You're getting a bad reputation in your neighborhood
It's alright
It's alright
Sometimes that's what it takes
You're only human
You're allowed to make your share of mistakes
You better believe there will be times in your life
When you'll be feeling like a stumbling fool
So take it from me you'll learn more from your accidents
Than anything that you could ever learn at school
Don't forget your second wind
Sooner or' later you'll get your second wind

 

[Fino]

@Bronzelincolns Haven't really been on this thread anymore because I refuse to come here and argue with anyone about anything and I don't have anything to prove to anyone.

But, I would like to say you can love yourself and not love a situation, There are things that are out of our control sometimes and we can never change. They're not always good or the right situations.

In my opinion loving yourself mean accepting your flaws and embracing who you are. treating yourself well, not being so hard on your self. Being aware of any insecurities and being there for yourself and positively try to change them. Taking care of yourself and your body whether it's eating good or exercising.

These are all things that I put continuous effort in and I am rather well at despite circumstances.

Just don't bother responding to the silly comments, you have no obligation to acknowledge every word. I just chuckle and move on!

 

[Bronzelincolns]

But, I would like to say you can love yourself and not love a situation, There are things that are out of our control sometimes and we can never change. They're not always good or the right situations.

you're letting these outside influences that you have no control over put you in a place where you devalue yourself enough to want to cease your own existence. you're correct, there are certain things that are outside of your control, but you do have control over yourself and how you react to and deal with these situations.

In my opinion loving yourself mean accepting your flaws and embracing who you are. treating yourself well, not being so hard on your self. Being aware of any insecurities and being there for yourself and positively try to change them. Taking care of yourself and your body whether it's eating good or exercising.

now how can one truly do these things by killing themselves? you think "accepting your flaws", "embracing who you are", "treating yourself well", "not being hard on yourself", "taking care of yourself", is accomplished by suicide?

Just don't bother responding to the silly comments,

there's nothing silly about pointing out obvious logical inconsistencies, especially when one is attempting to reason themselves into taking their own life.

 

[Misery]

@Bronzelincolns Haven't really been on this thread anymore because I refuse to come here and argue with anyone about anything and I don't have anything to prove to anyone

Take some time and actually READ some of the posts. For the most part we're not here to argue (and if someone is just here to be annoying or contradictory, literally ignore them. Even on the best forum, "annoyances" will present themselves at times). There's alot of good advice and general thoughts here, in regards to the sort of situation you describe.

As I said in my post though: what you do with any of it is up to you. Only YOU can actually make things change, and chances are, you have more control than you realize (which I think was another topic touched upon in this thread). We're all trying to help (well, most of us anyway...), and nobody's asking you to "prove" anything (I'll never understand why that term comes up in conversations like this), but... asking for help accomplishes literally nothing if the attempts at helping are ignored. We cannot make the changes for you, nor can anyone else. But we can offer assistance in various ways.

As I also said though: You're in the right place to find friends and people who will actually care. Again though... up to you to make that connection. Plenty of us (such as myself) will make the offer, but we cant do anything if it's not accepted.

It's all up to you, and we're rooting for you.