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Featured rote learning and autism?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by harrietjansson, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    I have heard that aspies are good at rote learning.
    Wiki says "Rote learning is a memorization technique based on repetition. The idea is that one will be able to quickly recall the meaning of the material the more one repeats it.".

    What is problematic here is that I suck at rote learning and disslike repetition for the sake of repetition. Repetition seems more like a thing for "normal" people.
    I took piano lessons and sucked at it because it was based on rote learning rather than about understanding the music. And I suck at remebering dates eg the Battle of Lützen. Asperger's does not help me with rote learning. It just makes me disslike it!
    Another thing e are supposed to be good at it is: visual thinking. Also a stereotype I think. I suck at it!

    My questions: Is this just one of the stereotypes? Do you also want to understand rather than just be forced to learn without understanding? Isn't the stereotypes actually that aspies want to understand and ask too many questions?

    "Rote memory skills and autism spectrum disorder
    Children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) are often good at learning by heart (rote memory). Many children with ASD can remember large chunks of information, like conversations from movies, words to a song, number plates and so on.
    You can encourage your child to use rote memory for learning useful information, like your phone number and address, the alphabet and times tables."
    https://raisingchildren.net.au/auti...skills-and-autism-spectrum-disorder-nav-title

    Question: does this website encourage stereotypes?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  2. unperson

    unperson Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Hated repetition and rote learning like times tables etc. Usually only needed to read something once to remember it, well with spelling anyway, and phone numbers. Maths tables, and formulae, I think you might have to do the repetition.
     
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  3. paloftoon

    paloftoon Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Every autistic individual is different. Most of us in general don't want to learn by rote learning only. There's a time and place for everything, and it needs to be well balanced.
     
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  4. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    so you live up to the stereotype ie aspies have very good memory?
    math tables are based on rules.
     
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  5. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    I actually thought that aspies wanted to seek and find the patterns. Rote memory is about not caring about seeking the patterns. This goes against what I was thinking. Only some of us need to seek and find the patterns. Many aspies love traditional piano lessons but I hate it as I need to find the patterns in music.
    So many aspies don't need to see the patterns? They can play music or memorize thing without seeing the patterns involved?
     
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  6. The Pandector

    The Pandector Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I can't learn well in any formal setting so have always been self-taught. I retired from charge over a fairly massive one-of-a-kind computer complex, which--literally--only two other people understood. I came to that understanding by relentless pursuit of detail, with each detail considered from the perspective of what I knew of the whole. A few years later, voila! If someone had tried to teach that stuff to me, I would have crashed and burned.

    I have a hard time with my own phone number.

    No. However, there is a tendency to examine the validity of generalizations whether or not they are misused somewhere in a stereotype.
     
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  7. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    how will this effective when meeting people who are bad at rote learning?
     
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  8. The Pandector

    The Pandector Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    If I understand your question...
    Not at all, I would hope.

    A valid stereotype is a statistical generalization about a group, not about individuals. When you meet someone, they become an individual to you... regardless of how fully they meet your generalization.

    Therefore, new data for your set might modify your generalizations about that set. Never, ever, should we consciously allow our view of an individual to be predetermined by our understanding of their cohort. I would hope.

    If you're personally dealing with people who expect you to excel at rote learning based on your autistic nature, then they know that you are autistic and you can easily set them straight. However, if you are confronted with this because you are inserting yourself into a situation where rote memory is important, you may want to reconsider that direction.
     
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  9. Aspychata

    Aspychata Serenity waves, beachy vibes

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    I too sucked at times tables. l think it depends on the subject matter. I loved piano because it turned into ear and note recognition. So history l loved, didn't mind rote dates. I love Geography. But other things l am not interested and rote doesn't help either.
     
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  10. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    so you loved just looking at some sheet music and then being told to repeat it on the piano?
    Is that what you're talking about? That is how traditional piano lesson can look like.
    I find that I need to see the patterns in music rather than just take a small part of the music and play it without caring anything about the patterns involved. I just tried to learn the Good morning from Singing in the rain. I couldn't just look at the sheet music and repeat the notes. I had to see the patterns. I used my ears for this.
    How did you cope with traditional piano lessons? I failed.
     
  11. Neonatal RRT

    Neonatal RRT Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if this is an ASD stereotype or not. I will tell you that the primary way I learned factual information (name 4 types of ..., dates, formulas, multiplication tables, etc.) was by making my own flash cards and going through them every day. The primary way of me learning any type of physical process (learning how to operate a new computer software, a physical skill, etc.) is by actually doing it,...and doing it again. When I was a child and learning how to play the clarinet,...it meant a lot of repetition to the point of memorization of the musical piece,...as I was not all that great at reading sheet music.

    I was, and still am, a fact junkie. In my 50+ years, I have had a lot of "special interests",...and with that,...a bunch of facts stuck in my head.
     
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  12. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    repetiton for the sake of repetition?
     
  13. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a stereotypical notion at best. Another case of likening us to "Pavlov's dog". Nope-nope-nope.

    Learning is not generic. It not only depends on the person trying to learn, but what they are trying to learn. Simple concepts can likely be learned through repetition. But more sophisticated things, probably not.

    If one cannot conceptualize something complex to begin with, all the repetition in the world may not help. Particularly non-linear or abstract concepts IMO.

    Reminds me of how frustrating it was to understand that the use of keyframes in Macromedia Flash did not necessarily follow a consistent timeline. Once I understood this through learning from a third party, the who process of understanding Flash became more apparent to me. But it was an example of how repetition wasn't helping. As if I was trying to open a locked door over and over again. :oops:
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  14. Neonatal RRT

    Neonatal RRT Well-Known Member

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    No,...when it comes to this sort of thing, it is more "muscle memory". As I often teach my students,..."Learn how to do things correctly,...then work on speed." Whether you are a surgeon, a machine operator, or an athlete,...repetition will often lead to expertise.
     
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  15. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson Well-Known Member

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    I think people often miss something fundamental here, ie technique is much more than muscle memory. Sometimes people use too much or too little force when playing. Repetition in itself won't solve this issue.
    I was told by a singing teacher that my humming was too forced. Repetition in itself did not help me.
    Many people really do think repetition will help you and I dissagree.
     
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  16. OkRad

    OkRad μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος οὐλομένην V.I.P Member

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    I am very good at it but only if I am motivated.
     
  17. Neonatal RRT

    Neonatal RRT Well-Known Member

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    Correct. As I said above,..."Learn how to do things correctly,..." Without the technique first,...all you end up doing is potentially learning how to repeatedly do things wrong.

    When I was a powerlifter, a sport that is very technique-dependent, this was/is one of the first principles. Plenty of strong people out there in gyms,...that don't know how to make their body an efficient lever to lift really big weights. Something like a 0.5cm out of line of center of gravity makes a difference between failure and success. With repetition, and neuro-motor training,...the so-called "muscle memory" takes place. "Muscle memory" is actually "neuro-motor memory".

    When you are training to do anything,...technique, physical dexterity, fine motor skills,...all of that is about going through the process of doing things correctly. With repetition, those neuro-motor pathways are reinforced.
     
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  18. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

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    I learn by seeing things done (once or twice if it's something I'm interested in/need to learn). I suck at rote learning. It absolutely does not work for me.
     
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  19. unperson

    unperson Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Had above average text memory when young, I'm old now so, it's all pretty bad.
     
  20. Gracey

    Gracey Well-Known Member

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    I remember rote learning times tables at five years old, to a tune in a classroom full of others.

    At the time I didn't need to understand what it all meant. I just enjoyed the tune. Repetition was comforting.

    Quite often I think visually.
    Being able to 'see' larger numbers broken down into smaller sets wouldn't have been possible without the foundational chanting of times tables at
    the age of five, upon which I built further.
    (Now I just see the answer rather than fourteen, twenty five, or a hundred thousand groups of nine items in picture form)

    There are many things I've forgotten from my first ever year at school.
    Times tables ISN'T one of them...
    ... some fifty-odd years later :)

    My grandson is only 18 months old, he can reliably count to twelve.
    He doesn't know what each separate number represents but through repetition (rote?) he can repeat the sequence irrespective of where we begin.

    If we begin with the number ten, he'll say "eleven, twelve"
    If we begin counting from the number four he'll say "five, six, seven, eight..." and so on.

    He hasn't got a clue what it all means, he only remembers the sequence through repetition :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021