Rejection after an interview despite looking good on paper

[DuckRabbit]

Many threads here on employment are about how much to disclose to employers, but I'm intrigued by experiences of rejection after an interview, after reading how religious writer Karen Armstrong and poet Sylvia Plath both experienced 'professional' rejection and were baffled as to the reason why, especially since both were 'model' candidates on paper - presumably the reason that got them the interview in the first place. Not knowing the reason seemed to add to the trauma of the rejection. Having read both their biographies it does sound like they're both on the autistic spectrum.

If anyone here has experienced rejection after an interview, did you know the reason? Were you told the reason or did you intuit what it might be? Was there a particular point when you felt the interview souring or going wrong?

 

[Moonhart44]

I can tell most of the time if i made the interview. I have a real hard time emoting happiness or showing people im happy, so when i try to do that for interviews, they are ruined, or people look at me weird. i even could tell before the even shook my had once and i expressed my disppointment briefly unforuntately. i have been even hired by people because they think ill look one way and then they see me and i dont ( in terms of ethnicity). i know this because they ask about why my last name is the way it is.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I can tell most of the time if i made the interview. I have a real hard time emoting happiness or showing people im happy, so when i try to do that for interviews, they are ruined, or people look at me weird. i even could tell before the even shook my had once and i expressed my disppointment briefly unforuntately. i have been even hired by people because they think ill look one way and then they see me and i dont ( in terms of ethnicity). i know this because they ask about why my last name is the way it is.

Interesting that if you try to show pleasantness you feel it comes across as forced and people sense it's an effort. That's why I feel well-meaning tips for ASC individuals on how to 'pass for normal' can actually make things worse, because they don't flow organically. What works for NTs cannot always be extrapolated to ASC individuals!

 

[Moonhart44]

Interesting that if you try to show pleasantness you feel it comes across as forced and people sense it's an effort. That's why I feel well-meaning tips for ASC individuals on how to 'pass for normal' can actually make things worse, because they don't flow organically. What works for NTs cannot always be extrapolated to ASC individuals!

yeh its very frustrating trying to explain to people why you cant just "fake it" because they take it as you being stubborn. everytime i try to deliberately be externally nice to a client it alwys back fires. i have even had some coworkers catch me in the act and remark on how fake i seem, when in reality i look up videos on how to pass as human at work haha

 

[SDRSpark]

People interpret my normal stimmy behavior and odd mannerisms as severe anxiety lol. (It's probably a normal level of anxiety when faced with an interview, but I'm not nearly as nervous as I appear to most people, I think.) Basically, body language.

 

[DuckRabbit]

People interpret my normal stimmy behavior and odd mannerisms as severe anxiety lol. (It's probably a normal level of anxiety when faced with an interview, but I'm not nearly as nervous as I appear to most people, I think.) Basically, body language.

Interesting that normal ASC mannerisms exaggerate your perceived level of anxiety to others. IMO body language is a relatively benign way for anxiety to manifest. A worse way could be blundering with one's words or asking un-thought-through questions!

 

[SDRSpark]

Interesting that normal ASC mannerisms exaggerate your perceived level of anxiety to others. IMO body language is a relatively benign way for anxiety to manifest. A worse way could be blundering with one's words or asking un-thought-through questions!

I do that too...though it's not necessarily anxiety or stress related (although anxiety and stress definitely make it worse!!! Being tired also makes it worse, or overwhelmed/overstimulated...there are a whole lot of factors there.)

 

[Tom]

I got a lot of feedback from watching their expressions and body language during the interview. It pretty much always lined up. When the unspoken reactions went well, so did the results and vice versa. When I saw things going badly from the reactions I would relax and not try so hard anymore, basically just go thru the motions to complete the interview.

I know many on the spectrum have expressed difficulty reading expressions and body language. If I pay attention to it I do ok. I think perhaps it was because I grew up in dangerous places, and learning to read such things was good for your health. So I applied my focus on it out of necessity. I do still have problems with many nuiances and detecting deception, but basics like happy, sad, threat, etc I can normally read.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I got a lot of feedback from watching their expressions and body language during the interview. It pretty much always lined up. When the unspoken reactions went well, so did the results and vice versa. When I saw things going badly from the reactions I would relax and not try so hard anymore, basically just go thru the motions to complete the interview.

I know many on the spectrum have expressed difficulty reading expressions and body language. If I pay attention to it I do ok. I think perhaps it was because I grew up in dangerous places, and learning to read such things was good for your health. So I applied my focus on it out of necessity. I do still have problems with many nuiances and detecting deception, but basics like happy, sad, threat, etc I can normally read.

Sounds like you have a good strategy and philosophy. I know some people can read expressions and body language OK but they have difficulty incorporating it or acting on it in the social pressure of the interview situation - like the proverbial 'rabbit frozen in the headlights': one can see the headlights alright but one is paralysed against modifying one's behaviour accordingly. One realises only afterwards what one should have done!

 

[Giraffes]

Yes i relate, often i totally 'over research'....... the company, policies, interview tips and 'great answers to questions', so may come across intimidating and robotic in my responses, i also can focus on one element of a question only and as canditates are 'scored' have often lost out on jobs where i'd be underemployed, i now inform those interviewing that i will write the question down as a point of reference to 'keep me on track', and if a loud ticking clock is in the room forget it i've lost that job before i start,for the job i've just got i declared my Autism asked for a overview of the topics that would form the interview, a picture of the room and those interviewing myself to increase preditabiliy and lower anxiety and mentioned the clock thing, all these requests were accommodated and i have hope that this company will making reasonable adjustments for 'my way of being'

 

[DuckRabbit]

Yes i relate, often i totally 'over research'....... the company, policies, interview tips and 'great answers to questions', so may come across intimidating and robotic in my responses, i also can focus on one element of a question only and as canditates are 'scored' have often lost out on jobs where i'd be underemployed, i now inform those interviewing that i will write the question down as a point of reference to 'keep me on track', and if a loud ticking clock is in the room forget it i've lost that job before i start,for the job i've just got i declared my Autism asked for a overview of the topics that would form the interview, a picture of the room and those interviewing myself to increase preditabiliy and lower anxiety and mentioned the clock thing, all these requests were accommodated and i have hope that this company will making reasonable adjustments for 'my way of being'

Those sounds like great tips and I admire your constructive pro-activeness. It's good how organisations are so much more willing these days to accommodate individual differences. Hopefully that translates into society also being more tolerant of differentness than in the past. The saying "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" can be extended to: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by its treatment of divergence from the norm and how much importance it places on conformity"!

 

[onlything]

I didn't and despite asking for feedback if they were so inclined, I rarely received one. As such, I have only speculations towards the reasons.

1. There were interviews where I simply didn't prepare enough. I didn't do enough researchon the company and couldn't answer specific questions well. I don't do this mistake anymore.

2. For one interview, I didn't think to prepare many questions - and from my understanding it's one of the worst things you can do, not asking questions that is.

3. For another I asked too many - one of the tip that told me that was when I realised how often the interviewer looked at their clock (which means they're bored or in a hurry). It also happened when my answers were too long.

4. Some interviews I spoke too much about myself and not enough about them and how they can benefit by hiring me. Interviews aren't about you - they are about letting interviewers know that you'll fit into the company, with personality, traits and skills to match the description.

5. One interview I know for sure that I read the atmosphere wrong and presented my answer even worse - I started by talking about their team and the innovations they introduced that I was inspired by, ending with their recent successes. Theoretically sounds good... However, their disappearing smiles told me that the way I presented the knowledge sounded either wrong or too rehearsed/insincere.

6. For one I simply didn't have the specific skills they needed. They chose me due to my application since they could read that I have great enthusiasm about the role. However, in the end I simply weren't a good fit.

7. For some interviews I was too bubbly. I can be too forceful/aggressive in the expression of my enthusiasm at times and this is what happened. Enthusiastic and positive is good but bubbly may be seen as childish. They look for focused and dedicated people with a can-do attitude, not maybe nice, bubbly people. As one interviewer said to me 'No one cares if you're nice'. You've got to be polite, yes, but above all show your professionalism and that you will do the job well. Just don't be too arrogant.

This is what I can think of from the top of my head at least.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I didn't and despite asking for feedback if they were so inclined, I rarely received one. As such, I have only speculations towards the reasons.

1. There were interviews where I simply didn't prepare enough. I didn't do enough researchon the company and couldn't answer specific questions well. I don't do this mistake anymore.

2. For one interview, I didn't think to prepare many questions - and from my understanding it's one of the worst things you can do, not asking questions that is.

3. For another I asked too many - one of the tip that told me that was when I realised how often the interviewer looked at their clock (which means they're bored or in a hurry). It also happened when my answers were too long.

4. Some interviews I spoke too much about myself and not enough about them and how they can benefit by hiring me. Interviews aren't about you - they are about letting interviewers know that you'll fit into the company, with personality, traits and skills to match the description.

5. One interview I know for sure that I read the atmosphere wrong and presented my answer even worse - I started by talking about their team and the innovations they introduced that I was inspired by, ending with their recent successes. Theoretically sounds good... However, their disappearing smiles told me that the way I presented the knowledge sounded either wrong or too rehearsed/insincere.

6. For one I simply didn't have the specific skills they needed. They chose me due to my application since they could read that I have great enthusiasm about the role. However, in the end I simply weren't a good fit.

7. For some interviews I was too bubbly. I can be too forceful/aggressive in the expression of my enthusiasm at times and this is what happened. Enthusiastic and positive is good but bubbly may be seen as childish. They look for focused and dedicated people with a can-do attitude, not maybe nice, bubbly people. As one interviewer said to me 'No one cares if you're nice'. You've got to be polite, yes, but above all show your professionalism and that you will do the job well. Just don't be too arrogant.

This is what I can think of from the top of my head at least.

That's a helpful range of reasons/ pitfalls to watch out for. I agree they're not looking for kind, friendly, authentic so much as professionalism - someone who can do the job and stay on target, with minimal supervision but at the same time a 'team-player'. It's a tough balancing act, fulfilling the exhortation to 'show enthusiasm' while not over-egging it and coming across as false.

Often NTs in organisations don't need to be nice because they have social skills to oil things along for them (influence others, get responses to their emails, ward off bullying etc). In contrast, ASC individuals may fall back on niceness (kind, agreeable, genuine, effusively praising everyone) as a form of social influence, because they lack the social skills required to influence others. But such niceness may not be compatible with running a tight-ship, making hard-nose business decisions, pursuing profits, evaluating and firing - leading to those high rates of underemployment reported in ASC populations relative to NT populations.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I can put all my interview rejections into 2 categories. One being that I simply didn't have as much experience as other candidates (I've had a few interviews where my feedback was along the lines of "a great candidate but didn't have enough experience in -") the other being that I really struggle to express myself verbally, especially when stressed. I've come out of interviews having managed to give the impression that I don't know anything about my expert subject just because I couldn't get the ideas into words despite knowing them backwards and forwards.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I can put all my interview rejections into 2 categories. One being that I simply didn't have as much experience as other candidates (I've had a few interviews where my feedback was along the lines of "a great candidate but didn't have enough experience in -") the other being that I really struggle to express myself verbally, especially when stressed. I've come out of interviews having managed to give the impression that I don't know anything about my expert subject just because I couldn't get the ideas into words despite knowing them backwards and forwards.

Yes, there can be a cognitive-physical disconnect in social situations, articulated well by the 13-year old ASC author of 'The Reason I Jump':

"...the words we want to say and the words we can say don’t always match that well. Which is why our speech can sound a bit odd, I guess. When there’s a gap between what I’m thinking and what I’m saying, it’s because the words coming out of my mouth are the only ones I can access at that time."

Very easy for people to under-estimate ASC individuals' knowledge and intelligence, due to verbal output in social situations.

 

[Kalinychta]

I think there’s probably just so much competition out there that no matter how good you look on paper, there are quite simply just many, many people who look equally as good, or better. What it really comes down to is how charming and well-spoken you are in interviews and how many of the “right things” you say. And of course this is the reason that autistic people have such tremendous trouble advancing in our careers or even getting hired in the first place. Most of us are not charming or well-spoken, and we don’t say the right things.

I am curious, though, to hear why you think Sylvia Plath was autistic? I’ve read that she may have had manic-depressive disorder, but I personally feel that she was just a very sensitive, very human human being. As much as I’d love to claim her for our “tribe,” she most probably wasn’t autistic, but as I said, I’d like to hear what you have to say about it. And I’m so glad you read her biography (was it Rough Magic that you read?). I have a few biographies of her on my shelf. She is so fascinating, such an incredible writer and poet. I think it was A. Alvarez who said that Ariel deserved a Pulitzer. He was right. But sadly she didn’t win one until 1982 when Ted Hughes published her Collected Poems. I wish she had lived to receive it herself. Truly one of the greatest poets in history.

 

[Aspychata]

I think there’s probably just so much competition out there that no matter how good you look on paper, there are quite simply just many, many people who look equally as good, or better. What it really comes down to is how charming and well-spoken you are in interviews and how many of the “right things” you say. And of course this is the reason that autistic people have such tremendous trouble advancing in our careers or even getting hired in the first place. Most of us are not charming or well-spoken, and we don’t say the right things.

I am curious, though, to hear why you think Sylvia Plath was autistic? I’ve read that she may have had manic-depressive disorder, but I personally feel that she was just a very sensitive, very human human being. As much as I’d love to claim her for our “tribe,” she most probably wasn’t autistic, but as I said, I’d like to hear what you have to say about it. And I’m so glad you read her biography (was it Rough Magic that you read?). I have a few biographies of her on my shelf. She is so fascinating, such an incredible writer and poet. I think it was A. Alvarez who said that Ariel deserved a Pulitzer. He was right. But sadly she didn’t win one until 1982 when Ted Hughes published her Collected Poems. I wish she had lived to receive it herself. Truly one of the greatest poets in history.

There are so many factors that you can be rejected for anything. Plus the sheer number of people applying for jobs these days increase your odds of not getting a job.

Sometimes l just try to read quickly what they are looking for. How much technical,how much people awareness, is the person hiring a idiot or intelligent? Do l like the environment? Because if l dislike the setting, the commute, or the incredibly low pay - l am not trying that hard, period. So to me - we are evaluating each other to some extent.

But autistic people like me☺

 

[DuckRabbit]

I think there’s probably just so much competition out there that no matter how good you look on paper, there are quite simply just many, many people who look equally as good, or better. What it really comes down to is how charming and well-spoken you are in interviews and how many of the “right things” you say. And of course this is the reason that autistic people have such tremendous trouble advancing in our careers or even getting hired in the first place. Most of us are not charming or well-spoken, and we don’t say the right things.

I am curious, though, to hear why you think Sylvia Plath was autistic? I’ve read that she may have had manic-depressive disorder, but I personally feel that she was just a very sensitive, very human human being. As much as I’d love to claim her for our “tribe,” she most probably wasn’t autistic, but as I said, I’d like to hear what you have to say about it. And I’m so glad you read her biography (was it Rough Magic that you read?). I have a few biographies of her on my shelf. She is so fascinating, such an incredible writer and poet. I think it was A. Alvarez who said that Ariel deserved a Pulitzer. He was right. But sadly she didn’t win one until 1982 when Ted Hughes published her Collected Poems. I wish she had lived to receive it herself. Truly one of the greatest poets in history.

Agree about Plath. I have indeed read 'Rough Magic' and a few others. Janet Malcolm's 'The Silent Woman' is excellent. I believe Plath was on the spectrum because she felt so much like an outsider and was often mocked and bullied. In defence, she'd put on different personas (masks) which made her come across as false, odd or risible, which compounded the bullying. If you read her autobiographical novel 'The Bell Jar' through the lens that she's Asperger, many AS traits jump out and the whole pattern comes together.

Coincidentally, I have Alvarez's autobiography lined up on my desk to read! He brought her to the public's attention. I think one of Ted Hughes's poems has the spine-tingling line about an oracle telling her: "Yes, you'll be famous, but you'll have to pay for it with your happiness, your husband and your life." That was the price. Do you think her poetry and writing would be read with half the fascination it is if she hadn't committed suicide?

 

[SDRSpark]

Yes, there can be a cognitive-physical disconnect in social situations, articulated well by the 13-year old ASC author of 'The Reason I Jump':

"...the words we want to say and the words we can say don’t always match that well. Which is why our speech can sound a bit odd, I guess. When there’s a gap between what I’m thinking and what I’m saying, it’s because the words coming out of my mouth are the only ones I can access at that time."

Very easy for people to under-estimate ASC individuals' knowledge and intelligence, due to verbal output in social situations.

Nailed it. That happens to me. I know exactly what I'm trying to say, I can picture it perfectly in my head, in three dimensions even, I understand the concept completely...and completely forget the words that I need to actually describe it. I attempt to explain it and...derp.

 

[DuckRabbit]

There are so many factors that you can be rejected for anything. Plus the sheer number of people applying for jobs these days increase your odds of not getting a job.

Sometimes l just try to read quickly what they are looking for. How much technical,how much people awareness, is the person hiring a idiot or intelligent? Do l like the environment? Because if l dislike the setting, the commute, or the incredibly low pay - l am not trying that hard, period. So to me - we are evaluating each other to some extent.

But autistic people like me☺

> There are so many factors that you can be rejected for anything.
Yes, and employers have an arsenal of criteria to protect themselves legally when they reject someone, designed to make it sounds reasonable and justified, even if the real reason was that they just took a dislike to the candidate's face!

> Plus the sheer number of people applying for jobs these days increase your odds of not getting a job.
With the global economy falling apart due to the pandemic, this is probably going to get worse - the media is reporting astronomical numbers of applicants for a single job opening. Hopefully our forms of work will change in response to the pandemic and climate change, and new roles will open up. I like to think that the pandemic is ultimately going to make the world more hospitable to Aspergers

> Sometimes l just try to read quickly what they are looking for. How much technical,how much people awareness, is the person hiring a idiot or intelligent? Do l like the environment? Because if l dislike the setting, the commute, or the incredibly low pay - l am not trying that hard, period. So to me - we are evaluating each other to some extent.
A pragmatic and healthy approach! Do you find that not trying so hard paradoxically gets you offers? - following Murphy's law that if it's something we really, really want, we often manage to chase it away