Please explain a few things about free will and God (Christianity).

[jogupo]

Anthropomorphizing God (ie describing God and God's actions, inactions, etc in terms of human behaviors, actions, etc) is a perfectly useful tool for us as humans. God is anthropomorphized in the Bible countless times and Jesus himself did so when he called God our "Father".

As such another idea along this same topic that I've been thinking about recently is the idea of eternal punishment and suffering with absolutely no recourse of any kind. No human parent (save for those that may in fact by psychopaths, sociopaths, sadists, mentally deranged, etc) would punish their child for breaking the parent's rules with eternal suffering and no recourse. The imbalance in that would be blatant. When children are punished, they often regret their actions and are often remorseful...only after the punishment is given. I'm guessing one would be hard pressed to find anyone in hell who likes it there and wants to stay (ie they're all likely regretful and even remorseful).

It's incomprehensible to me that a "loving God" would literally banish most people to hell where they would suffer continually for eternity, eternity and never give them a chance for rehabilitation, etc. I can't believe that. I can't believe that those who make it to Heaven (this topic is under the presumption that one exists, of course) wouldn't at some point in eternity say: "Lord, haven't they suffered enough?"

The idea of what hell is purported to be is disturbing of course; however, I find it more disturbing actually that "God" as is commonly described (loving, caring, kind, forgiving, Father, Shepherd who tirelessly seeks and rejoices at finding the one lost lamb, etc) relegates most people to constant pain, suffering and torture forever and without end with no recourse and no alternative. On a base level it seems sick.

I can't show someone this in my Bible but I have always suspected based on their being two different words for hell in the Hebrew that while both are places where we would be separated from God for eternity only one is meant to be a place of punishment i.e. the lake of fire. The other is simply a place God must send people who reject the gospel because he is Holy and cannot be in the presence of sin. Dante had a similar view in the Divine Comedy.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

We're not puppets of some cold distant titan.

God created us to be in relationship with Him. The Bible says "Your Maker is your husband." And part of a healthy relationship is giving the other person complete free will, and trusting them.

God wants us to live in accordance to His Law, but we have complete free will to live our lives as we wish. He protects, loves, and guides us along the way, regardless of what we do. But He wants us to cleave to Him, and allow Him to lead our lives.

Anything you do in this life, God will forgive you. Repentance is so hard for me. In many instances, I will repent, and then go right back to doing what I was doing. Repentance turns into a series of apologies for me, sometimes.

I don't know really very much about theology. But I do know that Jesus is God. And that God is loves us so much, and He wants us to be with Him forever. In fact the definition of God is Love. But, as in any healthy relationship, we have the complete free will to accept or refuse Him.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Firstly: My intention in this thread is in no way to put down religion, belief in God, religious people, etc. I ask that anyone who responds does so with respect to the belief systems of others, whatever they may be.

Being human, the only perspective I have is mine (as a human). I know that "our ways are not God's ways" or vice versa, which means humans often don't understand why certain things happen when they seem to be bad, hurtful, damaging, etc. Christianity teaches that things that happen to us that seem wrong, bad, unjust, hurtful, heinous, etc happen because there's a bigger picture and only God can see it.

Thinking in human terms from a human perspective and more specifically as a parent, I think of the following scenario:

Assume a parent loves their child dearly. That parent has a goal of raising a child who is autonomous (ie free will) and that parent knows that the child will learn from their mistakes. That parent shouldn't shield the child from every possible misstep and instead needs to allow the child to fail.

However...would a loving human parent sit by as they watch their child make a choice, go in a certain direction in life, etc that would be so dangerous that the choice would be lethal for example? That would never happen. A parent would never watch their child walk towards and step off a cliff for example, knowing full well the child will die and not say anything and watch it happen in order to preserve the child's autonomy, free will, etc. Also, if a child was persistent in wanting to walk toward the cliff, every parent would physically stop the child and literally prevent them from falling to their death.

Eternal hell is certainly the quintessential example of all examples of a fate worse than death, worse that stepping off a cliff, etc. God allows, preserves, protects our autonomy, our free will to the point of watching people step off the cliff to eternal damnation should they choose rather than stopping them. God knows what eternal life is really like. God knows what eternal damnation is really like for people; God knows the severity of it (a severity like nothing else).

If God's inaction was compared to the analogy of a human parent and child, God's inaction would be considered unconscionable. Why doesn't God step in in such instances?

Sometimes God has to teach us something or a lesson. If God stepped in each time, would we not take Him for granted. Believing is not seeing.
Sometimes God let's us fall off the cliff and splatter on the ground, sometimes He catches us, sometimes He catches us midway and allows us to fly if we allow Him too
The fact is God does make the choices but He knows we are human and it is natural to want choices and free will at times, I mean is there anyone out there who let's God make every single choice and never wants one of their own
Also autistics will struggle without choice and often be stubborn and insolent without meaning too and God loves them as well

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I don't believe God 'lets' children die. Children die because of accidents, other horrible people or situations etc. I already explained why I believe God doesn't intervene. I also don't want to be a person that thinks it'll never happen to my children (just because I'm a Christian). I've thought about all this & there's no way I could ever be prepared fully because I'm human. If one of my children does die, however, I'd like to believe that I won't be blaming God, but rather, be grateful that He's there to scoop my child up in His arms & be grateful that He is always with me to comfort & help me through the crisis.

I can't guarantee that would be the case, of course, but I'd like to believe it'd be the case.

God hasn't created anything vile or evil, in my opinion. Man has done that.

It is alright if people blame God when their child dies, it is human
I mean it is a harsh world out there, can anyone understand what it all means and the signs of the times.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Well written, I'm not religious, but agnostic.in the strictest way questions everything, the stroke changed things for me out of body experience answers to a few questions. Strange dream where I Was told I'm some sort of messenger used my newfound knowledge. to determine how free will could exist and determinism could coexist. Either way still do not know what message I'm meant to transmit.