Minor Moral Connundrum

[foliodoe]

If everyone started stealing, our society would collapse. No one can run a grocery store if they have constant thefts and loss of revenue. Loss prevention and security costs the stores a lot of money, money they have to make up for by raising the prices.

But since theft still occurs, does that mean the people who are paid to prevent theft are stealing from the company too? Aren't they the ones morally responsible for the thefts that occur under their watch? More so than the thief, who has no moral obligation to the company. Whereas the loss prevention employee takes money from a company under the pretense that they're going to prevent theft.

 

[Forest Cat]

But since theft still occurs, does that mean the people who are paid to prevent theft are stealing from the company too? Aren't they the ones morally responsible for the thefts that occur under their watch? More so than the thief, who has no moral obligation to the company. Whereas the loss prevention employee takes money from a company under the pretense that they're going to prevent theft.

We don't live in a perfect world, people do their best. Hiring security doesn't mean they will prevent all theft because we live on earth and it's messy here. You're not responsible for theft just because you are not able to stop 100% of all thieves, you just do your best. Can't do more than that. But if no one stole, there would be no need for security. Thieves force businesses to spend money on security.

 

[Thinx]

Would it not be better to just share everything out equally?

 

[foliodoe]

Would it not be better to just share everything out equally?

This is the way. There's no need for theft if everything belongs to everyone. So any system that allows for the possibility of theft is already immoral and there's no moral way to participate in that system. Therefore, it's not immoral to steal chocolate bars from a store.

 

[Magna]

I don't understand what the cost of nursing homes has to do with the price of hypothetical bread or how either of those things relate to the real-world scenario being discussed in this post.

You're implying there's some arbiter or you're the arbiter of what the cost a business should or shouldn't charge for their goods and services. A business owner like other people has a whole host of reasons and obligations both present and future that they need to save money (profit).

Wait, I don't remember, are you a self-professed anarchist or am I thinking of someone else?

I've sufficiently made my point that a statement that all profit is theft is a false statement. Thank you @Rodafina for allowing me to disagree with the statement within your overall thread.

 

[Judge]

No one can run a grocery store if they have constant thefts and loss of revenue.

Walmart does every day. But then their loss of revenue (approx. 3 billion per year) to theft amounts to only one percent of their annual revenue. The world's biggest retailer.

Walmart CEO warns company will close stores if theft doesn't slow down

The world's largest retailer likely loses about 1% of its US revenue — or roughly $3 billion every year — to stealing by customers and employees.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Metalhead]

 

[GypsyMoth]

What do you think?

What would you have done?

Probably nothing would have happened had you told someone. There's really nothing that can be done. At one store I know of, employees can only "pursue" at a walk to the threshold of the door, although they'll often stand there and wait to take down a license plate. The objective is to de-escalate a situation and not provoke, as there are other customers and staff to think about. What little information is collected will be turned over to loss prevention, and this supports the company's shrinkage reports when they file their taxes--or can be provided to the police if the dollar value or harm justifies involving them.

A lot of it depends on what's stolen. My husband's store--who at the time was a retail manager--was robbed several times, including once to the tune of over $100,000 in less than 7 seconds. (His type of store was frequently scoped out by a more professional grade of thief.)

It might have been helpful to find the store manager and quietly report what you saw. The man is probably in there frequently and management is probably already aware of what he takes. I wouldn't think of it so much as snitching but a report made out of courteous concern. Some state laws allow for (what seems to me to be) a significant dollar amount on shrinkage, which probably allows companies to weather petty theft a bit better when they report their earnings to the IRS. The ability to write-off shrinkage helps in the long run and addresses how to handle the victimized entity, but no, it does not at all justify the man's actions. Rather, the manager can then go review the tapes and alert staff to keep an eye on the thief, and if his actions are deemed habitual or harmful enough, to have security escort him from the premises in the future.

If it were me, I probably would have leaned forward and quietly asked the cashier, "did he also give you those chocolate bars under his coat to ring up ?" But that's just because I often speak first without considering tact or some of the many variables that management has to contend with when considering whether or not to confront theft. Which may not be all that bad a thing. Had you done so, there is some possibility they would have wanted a statement from you--or maybe not. The marvelous thing about technology today is that it's all on video. But notifying management would have allowed their loss prevention team to secure the time marker and recording of the theft, so that it could be logged--if that is what their practice is, at least.

You know, I really didn't think I had anything to say about the matter & that this would be short. There goes short!

 

[foliodoe]

You're implying there's some arbiter or you're the arbiter of what the cost a business should or shouldn't charge for their goods and services. A business owner like other people has a whole host of reasons and obligations both present and future that they need to save money (profit).

Wait, I don't remember, are you a self-professed anarchist or am I thinking of someone else?

I've sufficiently made my point that a statement that all profit is theft is a false statement. Thank you @Rodafina for allowing me to disagree with the statement within your overall thread.

all profit is theft. it's exploitation. it has nothing to do with being an anarchist.

 

[330]

Walmart does every day. But then their loss of revenue (approx. 3 billion per year) to theft amounts to only one percent of their annual revenue. The world's biggest retailer.

Walmart CEO warns company will close stores if theft doesn't slow down

The world's largest retailer likely loses about 1% of its US revenue — or roughly $3 billion every year — to stealing by customers and employees.

www.businessinsider.com

They were the most horrible to vendors .

Some vendors would have to sell to Walmart at a loss just to be sold@ the stores . As previously been a small business owner . The system and policy In America is designed for Corporate expansion to smash all small business and take their profit at all costs . At least today it is .

 

[Judge]

They were the most horrible to vendors .

Some vendors would have to sell to Walmart at a loss just to be sold@ the stores . As previously been a small business owner . The system and policy In America is designed for Corporate expansion to smash small business and take their profit at all costs . At least today it is .

Yep, they are notorious for "playing hardball" with pretty much ANYONE who deals with them directly or otherwise.

 

[Nitro]

all profit is theft. it's exploitation. it has nothing to do with being an anarchist.

Ok, since I can't turn a profit on something I sell you, would you be willing to pay my bills to even out my losses?

 

[foliodoe]

Ok, since I can't turn a profit on something I sell you, would you be willing to pay my bills to even out my losses?

it's not my fault you're being exploited by someone else who's trying to make a profit off of your labor

 

[Nitro]

it's not my fault you're being exploited by someone else who's trying to make a profit off of your labor

You did not answer my question.
Yes or no?

 

[Thinx]

I think the sharing had happened to a degree by the time depicted in Star Trek. Let's do that.

 

[foliodoe]

You did not answer my question.
Yes or no?

your question is asinine and based on a hypothetical that has no basis in reality. you can turn a profit on whatever you sell, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Rodafina]

your question is asinine and based on a hypothetical that has no basis in reality. you can turn a profit on whatever you sell, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I think you're in over your head

I will feed badly if this thread devolves into fighting. Let’s discuss respectfully. It’s more interesting that way.

 

[Outdated]

it's not my fault you're being exploited by someone else who's trying to make a profit off of your labor

I give you a quote from the best boss I ever had, when talking to one of our clients - "If I'm not going to be making any profit then I'll do it while sitting on the beach with my kids instead of busting my gut working for you.".

Your brand of chardonay socialism doesn't work, all it does is enslave people and cripple their ability to excel in any field.

 

[foliodoe]

I give you a quote from the best boss I ever had, when talking to one of our clients - "If I'm not going to be making any profit then I'll do it while sitting on the beach with my kids instead of busting my gut working for you.".

Your brand of chardonay socialism doesn't work, all it does is enslave people and cripple their ability to excel in any field.

why does anyone need to excel in any field? maybe that's important to you, but it's not important to me or to a lot of other people trapped inside a system that does absolutely nothing for them

 

[Metalhead]

your question is asinine and based on a hypothetical that has no basis in reality. you can turn a profit on whatever you sell, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

I never thought I would actually say this, but on this topic, Nitro is correct.