Minor Moral Connundrum

[Rodafina]

I had an interesting minor moral conundrum at the grocery store today. I definitely watched a man steal a few chocolate bars. I was going to the chocolate section myself and I saw a man acting curiously, eating some watermelon from a container from the store. He took a couple of chocolate bars after carefully considering them and stuck them under his jacket. I was waiting for my turn of the chocolate, as I usually do, not wanting to get too close to anyone. I was standing a bit back and just waiting for him to be done kind of awkwardly looking at the ceiling.

We happen to both go to the same register and I was right behind him and I watched him only pay for the watermelon. I noticed his jacket was even bulkier than just a few chocolate bars would cause and it made me wonder what else he had under his coat.

So here is the conundrum. I kind of wanted to say something either to him or to the cashier. She seemed very kind and invited us over to her line because we both only had one item… In his case the watermelon and in my case one chocolate bar.

I didn’t say anything and I did not tell on the man.

Judgment aside, I noticed that he was dressed in clothing that was dirty and torn, and there was an unpleasant odor coming off of him. Another observation that was running through my head is that we were at a rather expensive and fancy grocery store. It’s called Whole Foods in the States and I can’t afford to shop there for food, but I do like their fancy chocolate once in a while.

So I felt conflicted. In one way, it is wrong to steal no matter what. But at the same time, this is a upscale grocery store, a major corporation, and they certainly wouldn’t notice a few things missing from their inventory. In my assessment, none of the employees around me would be disadvantaged by this man stealing… It’s not like he was stealing from them. And if I were to judge, it seemed like this man possibly had a rough life and I wonder if a little bit of chocolate was an okay thing for him to take. I really don’t know.

What do you think?

What would you have done?

 

[Slime_Punk]

Definitely wouldn't have said anything. I don't want to get shanked, either

 

[Metalhead]

Well, I assume tackling him and bashing him over the head with a giant turkey leg is out of the question.

 

[Forest Cat]

The smart thing might be to leave it to store security. Getting involved in those sort of things could get ugly. And it's not your job. It might be the right thing to do. But what kind of risks are we willing to take to protect something we don't own or even work at. Who wants to get shanked by a meth head. You never know who you are dealing with or what they will do.

 

[foliodoe]

it is wrong to steal no matter what.

This is actually not the correct moral position to take. Who's being harmed by someone stealing a few chocolate bars from a store? Most grocery stores do not provide food for people, they're actually making it harder to get food. There is no ethical way to engage in capitalism or consumerism. Stealing in these situations sits outside of that moral paradigm. It's the classic example of a victimless crime.

 

[Forest Cat]

Who's being harmed by someone stealing a few chocolate bars from a store?

Everyone who buys things there and pay for it. You and I and everyone else has to pay for it. Stores don't just take the loss and forget about it, they raise the prices if they lose a lot of money to theft. They have to, nothing is free in this world. Someone must always pay.

And sometimes stores have to close. I saw one last week, a store in Sweden is closing because it's in a bad neigborhood and they have had too much theft. They're getting out of the area, they can't lose more money. So now that neigborhood is losing a store and it gets even worse there.

 

[foliodoe]

Everyone who buys things there and pay for it. You and I and everyone else has to pay for it. Stores don't just take the loss, they raise the prices if they lose a lot of money to theft.

When incidence rates of theft go down, the prices don't go down at the same time. They're motivated by profit. Profit is theft. Every time you buy something above its actual cost, you're the victim of theft.

 

[YabbaDabba]

I don’t think you should beat yourself up over this. The moral brave thing to do would be confront the man while he was hiding the chocolate bars. Something simple like “hey, are you stealing?” He would have likely put them back and moved on.

But he would just probably come back in half an hour and steal them.

There is also your personal safety to be concerned about. I think its best you kept your head down and moved on. You did the right thing.

 

[Forest Cat]

When incidence rates of theft go down, the prices don't go down at the same time. They're motivated by profit. Profit is theft. Every time you buy something above its actual cost, you're the victim of theft.

That's one way to look at it. But that's the society we live in, people provide services and goods for money and they have to make a profit to make a living. They can't do it for free.

 

[Gerontius]

If you need something to survive, and you can't get it anywhere else--it's less evil to take from a grocery than it is to starve yourself to death.
They say "if you saw a beggar steal food; no you didn't."

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I'd like to think I would tell customer service, or the cashier after the guy left. But it can be hard to know what to do in the moment.

 

[foliodoe]

If you need something to survive, and you can't get it anywhere else--it's less evil to take from a grocery than it is to starve yourself to death.
They say "if you saw a beggar steal food; no you didn't."

Even if you want something, that's a good enough reason to steal in situations like these. If it's a moral question, the impact on the store is financial at worst, not moral. A few numbers being lower on their balance sheets has no moral impact on anyone.

 

[Gerontius]

Even if you want something, that's a good enough reason to steal in situations like these. If it's a moral question, the impact on the store is financial at worst, not moral. A few numbers being lower on their balance sheets has no moral impact on anyone.

I'd disagree with you there. It has an impact on yourself if you steal needlessly. I still believe theft is wrong.
Necessity makes things somewhat dicier, though; it's the sort of situation where someone who is destitute & steals to survive is just doing what they have to do. The greater injustice is that they can't get food.

That's where I'm at with it.

 

[foliodoe]

I'd disagree with you there. It has an impact on yourself if you steal needlessly. I still believe theft is wrong.
Necessity makes things somewhat dicier, though; it's the sort of situation where someone who is destitute & steals to survive is just doing what they have to do. The greater injustice is that they can't get food.

That's where I'm at with it.

Who does that chocolate bar belong to when it's sitting on the shelf at a store?

 

[Forest Cat]

Even if you want something, that's a good enough reason to steal in situations like these. If it's a moral question, the impact on the store is financial at worst, not moral. A few numbers being lower on their balance sheets has no moral impact on anyone.

We can also look at it like this; let's say I steal a lot in the stores you usually shop at. The stores raise the prices because of the loss I cause them. You then have to pay more for the goods you buy. That means I'm basically sticking my hand into your pocket and stealing your money.

 

[Metalhead]

I have a friend who used to work in a grocery store, he was told that under no circumstances was he to stop anybody from stealing liquor from that grocery store. I guess not causing a scene and a panic is more important to them than stopping outright shoplifting. Who knows? I did once see a cop do a foot chase of a guy through a grocery store, that was kinda freaky to witness and I guess I was not the only person there who felt that way. It was like I was in the middle of a '80s action movie scene.

 

[YabbaDabba]

Growing up I had two friends who had jobs as “secret shoppers”. One place was highly coordinated. There were several people watching the cameras. My friend wore headphones and pretended to be rocking out. But really the headphones was how the people watching the cameras communicated with him. Everyday all day long he caught people stealing.

The laws where I live are specific about stealing. You must watch the person conceal the product and keep eyes on them until they leave the property. Only them can you confront them.

 

[Metalhead]

Growing up I had two friends who had jobs as “secret shoppers”. One place was highly coordinated. There were several people watching the cameras. My friend wore headphones and pretended to be rocking out. But really the headphones was how the people watching the cameras communicated with him. Everyday all day long he caught people stealing.

The laws where I live are specific about stealing. You must watch the person conceal the product and keep eyes on them until they leave the property. Only them can you confront them.

Where is RoboCop when we need him?

 

[YabbaDabba]

Dead or alive you are coming with me.

 

[Magna]

Every time you buy something above its actual cost, you're the victim of theft.

Not correct.

If a baker sells the bread they bake for exactly the same price that's required to bake the bread which would include:

>Ingredients
>Equipment
>Utilities
>Taxes
>Insurance
>Packaging
>Advertising
>Payroll (ie employee pay)
>Rent or Mortgage
>Losses (botched batches, etc)
>Vendors
>Suppliers
>Repairs
>Maintenance and upkeep
>Licensing
>Accounting
>Consumables (e.g. office supplies, bags, etc)
>Uniforms

If the baker sells the bread for EXACTLY the cost of the above...how does the baker get paid themselves? How do they pay their own personal bills? How do they buy their own food? How do they save for their own retirement? How to support their own family? How do they expand their business? How do they afford new and better equipment when the equipment they use breaks and can no longer be repaired?