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Featured Let's create our own dream school for autistic people and not only..

Discussion in 'Education and Employment' started by SageRose, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Starfire

    Starfire Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It’s certainly normal these days for schools to have such policies in place. It’s not perfect but it’s positive and it’s moving in the right direction. I must admit when I read your earlier posts what you wrote bore absolutely no resemblance to how things are here or my child’s experience of school, it sounded more like a prison facility than a children’s school!

    I had the misfortune to attend an all boys Catholic school from the mid 1970s and onwards. It was an absolutely horrendous experience I had to endure, words couldn’t describe my experience of school. That’s also a school I occasionally dream about but they are nightmares, I’ve done my best to extricate that place and the devils that ran it from my mind.
     
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  2. SageRose

    SageRose Well-Known Member

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    All of our points are obviously based on our opinions and personal experiences. I myself work at the field of special ed and have prior experience of accompanying a child with quite severe autism in her general ed school, as a special ed support 'teacher/assistant'. I've seen for myself, what many others say for kids who have to go through life at general ed schools. I've seen how hard it was for her to blend in, be accepted for who she is or be even a bit taken in by other classmates and be considered an equal. It was me who actually prevented a lot of bad situations from happening to her, which wouldn't have to happen if that child could go to a school that was designed for kids like her.

    I often found myself feeling very sad both for kids like her and even for many high functioning kids who had to go through amazing emotional pain, stress and agony while being in general ed schools and having to CONSTANTLY compare themselves to the other kids or be compared to, unavoidably, by others, not to mention other worse situations and cases.

    My point about the irony of your child going to general ed school and having special treatment, is that if special ed was more extensive to what I suggest, kids like yours and many others, would not need a general ed school to make specific arrangements for them and have to feel 'singled out' due to those arrangements and let's face it, in most general ed schools, kids who enjoy special treatment are going to be looked down to anyway.

    Special ed school for kids on the spectrum might be a luxury for now, but that is also why we can stick to ideas at the moment. We can't make actual plans so our ideas is all we have right now.
     
  3. SageRose

    SageRose Well-Known Member

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    @Starfire
    ''I’ll let you all dream away. Unfortunately for me I’m a very ‘nuts and bolts’ person and very logical and down to earth, I don’t imagine, dream or invent like that without considering practical issues or problems likely to crop up.''

    It's an online thread, as I said, it's not an actual plan that will be taken to any government. However, what makes you think it has no logic? I think we have all made some very fair and logical points equally and besides the examples you've given for your child and the school she attends, you haven't disproved the benefits of a special ed school for spectrum kids. In fact...no one has so far. People have just pointed out flaws but none of those flaws have been enough to make the idea of an ideal spectrum school, look even remotely 'irrational' or 100% unrealistic. This is an idea that could very easily be adopted by anyone in the future who would bother to ponder on it practically just like people had done so when they came up with the idea to start special ed schools in general. So we should not assume who is logical here or not, or make comparisons. This is a thread about ideas and ideas are always useful, especially if they have the prospect of being developed in practical solutions in the future. Having said that, I definitely respect your views and I understand why you feel the way you do, all views on this matter are right in their own way.
     
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  4. Rexi

    Rexi owo uwu owo ProbablyAspie Atheist Science=<3

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    Religious schools should not exist. Theyre usually not even as well conducted as normal schools from experience, and they teach stuff children aren't ready for.

    On another subject, I think I would like to go back in time and find a different school for myself, I wasn't able to fit in or communicate, but I wonder if I would have among autists or special needs people and how the title would affect me but as compared to the dmg done to my self esteem I think it would have been a better experience. Thinking of my main bully if shed be in special ed with me though since she had worse grades than me but fit in, then I don't know how different it would be. I guess in special ed teachers pay more attention to the students which might have helped by a lot, not sure since I usually kept to myself and didn't talk for grades even if I knew the answer but it depended how judgemental they were and if they jumped to the worst conclusion then i was never able to communicate again with them.
    I never learned how to learn, so I struggled retaining info. At around 19 i learned how on my own.
     
  5. Rexi

    Rexi owo uwu owo ProbablyAspie Atheist Science=<3

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    Took this from another thread.

    Based on this, I think there needs to be more than a room, and deff not locked, but would teachers know if one has a tantrum or a meltdown? Everyone best get the right diagnosis
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  6. Starfire

    Starfire Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    That is the whole point of special ed schools, to provide education to children such as the one you described with severe or low functioning autism who are unable to cope or thrive in gen ed! Many children who are high functioning are perfectly capable of doing well in general ed schools with the help of accommodations. I don’t know why you think so many kids are experiencing “amazing emotional pain” or “agony” or constantly compare themselves, that was not my experience I didn’t give a damn about comparing myself and my daughter doesn’t experience that either.

    You have to realise in the U.K. at least, being HFA in a gen ed school is no big deal these days! Kids are so absorbed in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat etc etc they couldn’t care less about awkward, geeky socially inept kids they are so absorbed in themselves. Also with TV programs like Big Bang Theory, The A Word, Atypical, there is a lot of exposure to autism although it’s fiction. Honestly, kids are far more accepting of differences these days.

    You seem to have very strange ideas about the reality of many kids with HFA in state schools. I can only presume you don’t live in the UK because your opinions bear little relation to the reality of life for many children here. Also bear in mind with all the LGB, trans, pansexual, non binary and all the rest of the categories that are springing up almost daily, lots of kids have issues and difficulties of their own, autism isn’t even top of the agenda of differences or difficulties anymore, it’s nothing special.
     
  7. Starfire

    Starfire Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    You have completely misunderstood what I said! What I wrote was “I’m a very ‘nuts and bolts’ person and very logical and down to earth” I did not say your idea or any of the contributors were without logic!
     
  8. inkfingers

    inkfingers 19 year old Aspie artist and Jesus follower

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    Hmmm. As other folks have commented, keeping kids in a little sheltered bubble is not conducive for their education. They need to learn what the real world is like. Then again, I was lucky to be homeschooled, and I think that if I went to public high school, I probably would have committed suicide. I'm not kidding. Anyway, I think that an ideal school would have a playground with swings, even at the high school level. And not so many students. Less noise. Less busyness. I tried elementary school a few times, and every afternoon I would come home and have a meltdown. It was way too stressful for my brain to handle.
     
  9. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    Yes! I've been comparing schools to prisons for most of my life! I say it's like prison without the security. :)
     
  10. SageRose

    SageRose Well-Known Member

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    My ideas are not strange Starfire, they are just different to yours. I am not refering to one country, one child or one case of a certain school. My ideas stem not only from personal experiences but from countless discussions I've had with people of the spectrum including high functioning ones. So I'd hardly call my ideas ''strange'' if they are shared by more than a few people around the globe. Like I've said from the beginning, I do not limit my references to specific cases, I refer to the general population of kids in the spectrum and as I've writen, HFAs can indeed (in many cases and not ALL), blend in quite easily with the general ed school which is why as you also said, special ed schools are not really so much for HFAs but for the rest of the spectrum cases, but that sadly doesn't apply even to all HFAs. As another HF guy here pointed out, being HF doesn't necessarily mean that you can actually 'blend in'.

    So I get it that YOU and YOUR child might not be facing any issues but please don't assume that this is true for the majority of HFAs. And even if it were, my argument is about the spectrum in general, not just HFAs. And please don't assume that just because you haven't experienced some things, many other people don't or that my ideas are 'strange'. Also I'm pretty sure that even for the 'reality' of the UK as you mentioned, you wouldn't be able to represent it as a whole. You live in ONE place in the UK, how do you know what goes on in other places of the country, in other schools and with all the other autistic students there?

    Anyway this isn't going anywhere. We have different views. Neither yours are 'strange', nor mine. You're not the only one with experience in this matter, as I mentioned, I have a fairly good experience of both special and general ed school education as well as real life examples of kids who faced problems. This has been a pretty productive argument nontheless.

    So let's end this and agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  11. Starfire

    Starfire Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Agreed.
     
  12. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    I want to move to the UK! It sounds like a utopia, and I suddenly imagined it being made out of candy! :D
     
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  13. techteach

    techteach Captain Oblivious

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    This is true. This can not be ignored.

    This is true. This can not be ignored. I imagine many of us could tell horror stories about our time in public schools, for me it was hell. I was tormented and tortured for a dozen years, emotionally scarred for life.
    That is why we home schooled our children. (By the way, despite being told how we were emotionally and socially crippling them they are doing great. They are so much stronger than I am in so many ways and I am proud of them.):)
    We sacrificed to make this happen. I know many places where this is not allowed, we moved to an area where it is.
    I am not advocating home schooling (there are lots of home-schooling groups that can help if you are interested) just saying.
    I personally don't think the public school system is good for NT young people. I work with them everyday. Some of them have extremely low self esteem, others (the bullies) are damaged because the bullying behavior that was fine in high school is not acceptable at a college level. There are laws, and I do my part to enforce them. Sounds harsh but in my laboratory it does not happen. At all. Sorry for the rant.
    I care a lot for everyone of my students, we get very close. And then they graduate:(.

    I like the idea @SageRose :)
     
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  14. Loren

    Loren Well-Known Member

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    I have (hypothetically) designed schools/classrooms, homes, urban areas, etcetra, which correlate with common, co-occurring needs of autistic people, particularly, in the areas of sensory processing, ease of access, and others. I wouldn't know where or who to begin to introduce my ideas to, but, if given the opportunity, would like to see them (and/or other's) come to fruition. Some of my more problematic experiences in school, and, in various, other environments, have manifested from negative, sensory stimuli.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  15. SageRose

    SageRose Well-Known Member

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    Thats the pathetic propaganda against home schooling. ''Don't homeschool your kids because they will not be able to function, they have to receive proper 'education', blah blah blah''. [email protected] There is no such thing as 'proper' education in public schools anymore. Even NT kids can't get proper education there. The educational system has been deteriorated to a robotic 'learn everything as fast as you can and be done with it', method that causes learning difficulties even on kids that never had any problems. In fact, working in special ed, I have been taught by numerous professors, scientists and even watched several videos of professionals in linguistics, education and children psychology, openly revealing that most 'learning difficulties', have absolutely nothing to do with one's family history, or health issues but are rather difficulties that naturally arise due to the inexcusable low quality modern 'education' system.

    Brb, having a 6 year old child read sentences that include phonemes the child has BARELY used in its life until then, brb demanding from a child to perform mathematic tasks at its 7 years that would usually be taught in older ages and mixing them all up just to learn at a younger age and 'be done with it'. I can go on and on about this but professionals generally agree that most cases of learning difficulties are the result of what schools today call 'education plan', and ofc since the governments wouldn;'t recognise the fault of their system, naturally they accuse such cases as them being a child's ''problem''. Not to mention the INSANE amount of political propaganda happening in schools today. A young child going to elementary school nowadays has to be bombarded with a bunch of politically colored teachings, completely inappropriate for their age or thinking capability. If I had a child and I had the option, I WOULD homeschool it for sure. Parents are the ones who must decide the principles and values they want to teach their kids, not random strangers at schools. I'd like my child to receive MY values, not some political fairy tale taught in schools to favor politicians or the governments or whatever else. But I would also homeschool it because I'd want to make sure about the quality of its education and of course...its safety. I certainly wouldn't accept to have my child going to school only to come back bullied just because teachers in school are either indifferent or their hands are 'tied' and can't react properly.

    Leave the fools propagate against home schooling as much as they wish. It is them who get to see the results of public education today and it is them who will soon regret their choices. You've done a great job by homeschooling your kids.
     
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  16. china autie

    china autie friend to dogs and frogs and cats

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    No restraints. No seclusion rooms. No sticking kids in gym mats and sitting on them. No electric shocks. No forced eye contact. No table ready or quiet hands or ABA.

    Maybe let some other kids in, a few NTs who are hip to Autistic Culture.
     
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  17. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    I would also home-school my kids!
     
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  18. techteach

    techteach Captain Oblivious

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    Just reading this made me angry. What a crock! o_O

    What is being discussed here is very do-able and would actually be cheaper for governments in the long run. If vocational training was included and businesses were made a part of an advisory group that would agree to hire the graduates it would turn possible liabilities into taxpayers. We have such an arrangement with local businesses and we can't keep them supplied with enough employees. Of course we are working with mostly NTs, but ASD students have been through the program before, and there are two that I know of right now in the lab.
    I have a feeling that some of our best grads have been on the spectrum. One of them (who is just brilliant) is doing engineer level work at a local business. Very much a loner, very quiet and awkward, but an awesome student who got a great job.
    More importantly, nothing boosts self-esteem like being able to work a job and bring home a paycheck! Some students are so nervous when they graduate and have to go into the working world, they come back to visit so confident! The head of my department calls it the "technicians strut.":)

    Reading this back to myself I am not sure of how well I communicated what I was trying to get across.:confused:
     
  19. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    Are you saying a school for Autistic children would be cheaper in the long run, and you think the program you describe should be a part of it, and you currently work the program you describe but with mostly NTs?

    If I got it right, then you did great!

    Not that you didn't do great if I didn't get it right. It could be me!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  20. techteach

    techteach Captain Oblivious

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    Yes, exactly, thank you @Fino.
     
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