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Incredibly upset by this article

Z

zaphod

Member
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/ma...autism-why-women-who-leave-lose-twice-0420164

I am really upset by this article on so many levels. I don't get upset easily but I'm shaking and feel like throwing up. As upsetting as the article itself is, the comments that come after are even more upsetting. I can't believe this was written by a counselor, and that the counselor specializes in NT-ASD relationship counseling.

I'm very lonely and want a relationship, but if this is even half true everyone is just better off if I'm alone.

The thing that bothers me most is how the counselor apparently is diagnosing people with ASD without even meeting them, and doesn't appear to have the credentials to even diagnose someone in person.

Since getting divorced, I have gotten close to two other divorced women (it didn't work out with either of them) and both of them told me that their counselors had told them that their ex-husbands were narcissists.

Everyone that has a failed relationship and goes to counseling seems to come to the conclusion that their ex has some mental illness and that it's all their ex's fault. My hope here is that this is the case with the number of disgusting comments on that article - people that have been hurt in a relationship, feel the need to blame everything on their ex and have used asd as the scapegoat.
 
Yikes! I couldn't get through all of the article despite trying hard, but it seems extremely one sided and seems to be interpreting Autism as a basically a character flaw.
 
Yes, I think some counselers in a sense take the easy way out, avoiding confrontation and telling the paying client things they want to hear. A version of 'The customer's always right'. It may be a way to increase sales so-to-speak.
 
Therapists help the person that's paying them.

And very few understand ASD's, so a second-hand diagnosis of our nature will start at "selfish" and quickly get to the weaponized version of that: "narcissistic traits".

Personally I don't have a lot pf sympathy with someone who lives with an Aspie for decades and doesn't understand their nature well enough to communicate clearly with them.
 
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My own counselor while my marriage was falling apart had absolutely scathing remarks about my now ex wife. She had her own counselor who I'm sure was saying the same about me. I ended my individual counseling during this period after I realized it was escalating everything.

The article as well as the comments in it seem to be conflating narcissistic behavior with autism, which is why this is so triggering for me. I have been questioning if my social inadequacies and the impact it has on others makes me no better than a narc, regardless of effort or intent.
 
Hypnalis said:
Personally I don't have a lot pf sympathy with someone who lives with an Aspie for decades and doesn't understand their nature well enough to communicate clearly with them.
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I've got to hand it to my late wife. She's the one who recognized I was on the spectrum, and while I discounted her "opinion" about that, she did start being clearer with her communications, advising me ahead of time about plans, etc. She was the reason I finally decided to get "checked out".
 
Why get upset about an article? Opinion is the lowest form of evidence, so consider the source.

The vast majority of people, including some autistics, don't know how the autistic brain works and how we navigate our world. "Narcissism-like, selfish-like" behaviors in autism are clearly differentiated from true narcissism and selfish behaviors by their underlying motivational factors, but the vast majority of people will use their cognitive biases to falsely accuse us of these personality traits without ever making an effort to understand.

On the forums, we've spoken about communication styles, asking clarifying questions, doing things out of responsibility and accountability, minimizing emotional discussions, so on and so forth within the context of meaningful relationships. If you're not a mind reader, ask and discuss. Autistic or not, many people struggle with this because they simply are unaware of what it takes to maintain a relationship. The other part is that most people are not happy with themselves, and if you're not happy with yourself, it's difficult to be happy with anyone else. Other people rarely make you happy, you have to make yourself happy. It's sort of a prerequisite for any meaningful relationship.
 
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Wow. They really embraced every harmful stereotype of autistic people. The comments go on at incredible length as well. It feels pretty bad to see what people really think.

In my family, we celebrate my wife's birthday much more than mine because, believe it or not, we talked about it and I know she likes to have a day where she is celebrated while I do not want that.
 
Thank you for the feedback. As for why this bothers me so much...

I am only in the initial stages of getting diagnosed. I had my first session with a psychologist trained in asd assessments a couple weeks ago to decide if an assessment is right for me. I came prepared with the reasons why I thought I was and why I thought I wasn't on the spectrum... she basically blew the reasons why I thought I wasn't out of the water and the last thing she said was that I have significant markers for ASD.

I was okay with that. I had long ago come to the conclusion that the problem couldn't be with everyone else... the problem had to be with me - I was the common denominator, not everyone else. A diagnosis could change my mindset so that I stop believing everything is my fault.

Then I read something like this, clearly written from a NT perspective and the absolute avalanche of hatred towards ASD men makes me feel like an absolutely horrible human. I kept reading through those comments, trying to find any women saying something positive about their NT-ASD relationship and found nothing. It puts me back in the everything is my fault mindset. I don't want to be a self hating Aspie (if that is in fact my diagnosis), but it's hard not to be reading stuff like this.
 
I think the fact that you are a person that is worried about this and wants to avoid being a bad partner means that you are not the imaginary person everyone there is hating.
 
zaphod said:
My own counselor while my marriage was falling apart had absolutely scathing remarks about my now ex wife. She had her own counselor who I'm sure was saying the same about me. I ended my individual counseling during this period after I realized it was escalating everything.

The article as well as the comments in it seem to be conflating narcissistic behavior with autism, which is why this is so triggering for me. I have been questioning if my social inadequacies and the impact it has on others makes me no better than a narc, regardless of effort or intent.
Click to expand...
Narcissistic people tend not to care about their actions and their intentions are usually to cause other people distress. Everything they do is calculated to manipulate and extract from their targets. They like to feel power over others and they can't deal with not having things exactly as they want.

Missing social cues or little hints does not equate to Narcissistic behaviour. I don't think I've encountered a single person on this forum that enjoys seeing people hurt by their actions. Quite often people will become quite distressed if it seems their actions have caused someone distress and they often want to learn how to avoid doing it again.

Narcissists not only don't care, but they also generally see no benefit to themselves when it comes to changing their habits.

It definitely seems that the author of the article doesn't understand this and that certainly leads me to question their credentials!
 
saturnv said:
I think the fact that you are a person that is worried about this and wants to avoid being a bad partner means that you are not the imaginary person everyone there is hating.
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Thank you. I think I need to hear some positive relationship stories.

I also made a big deal out of my ex-wife's birthday and wanted minimal celebration of my own... although I'll admit I should have made a bigger deal over anniversaries.
 
zaphod said:
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/ma...autism-why-women-who-leave-lose-twice-0420164

I am really upset by this article on so many levels. I don't get upset easily but I'm shaking and feel like throwing up. As upsetting as the article itself is, the comments that come after are even more upsetting. I can't believe this was written by a counselor, and that the counselor specializes in NT-ASD relationship counseling.

I'm very lonely and want a relationship, but if this is even half true everyone is just better off if I'm alone.

The thing that bothers me most is how the counselor apparently is diagnosing people with ASD without even meeting them, and doesn't appear to have the credentials to even diagnose someone in person.

Since getting divorced, I have gotten close to two other divorced women (it didn't work out with either of them) and both of them told me that their counselors had told them that their ex-husbands were narcissists.

Everyone that has a failed relationship and goes to counseling seems to come to the conclusion that their ex has some mental illness and that it's all their ex's fault. My hope here is that this is the case with the number of disgusting comments on that article - people that have been hurt in a relationship, feel the need to blame everything on their ex and have used asd as the scapegoat.
Click to expand...

I won’t even read this article

it’s alright
 
These kinds of people outing themselves as folks that I want nothing to do with...is the silver lining.

I'll add more: In therapy, I was adamant to figure out what I was entirely responsible for, per my marriage not working out. Even outside of therapy and just everyday life, I was making lists of things that I wasn't sure of anymore, if they were my fault or not. I never wanted or would have accepted anyone telling me that nothing was my fault. I needed to know all faults and why. Turns out that some major unhappiness with her was more of the driving factor, but I failed at recognizing ways that I maybe could have helped. She chose some pretty bad, wrong other things, as well, though, and she's continued to deal with said consequences. I'm the same person mostly, but wiser and I certainly have none of her personality issues with others - and I mean people that she had turned against me, all helping her greatly, suddenly then figured out her real character...and they have all shunned her and then some. Still, I have never felt without fault or without shame. I don't have unwavering confidence in many areas, either. Overall, it has been my experience that people who are the quickest to blame others and publicly write such things...they are the ones truly with the deeper issues that need to be figured out. These are the kinds of people who may even seek sympathy and tell you that they have been doing much self-reflecting and then want to suggest that you do everything they are doing and become a better person, etc. etc. Nah, those folks are messed up, and you need to get away from them and go heal. If they really did any kind of self-reflecting, it must have been in a funhouse mirror, all warped and wonky and nonsense, haha.
 
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Yeah, when I see where an article like that is going, I move on. No need to "borrow" anger and frustration that does not otherwise intrude into my cubbyhole of the world.
 
No, that's not it. For some reason the link takes forever to load but I waited and it eventually came up.

Or you can google:

why-women-who-leave-lose-twice

and it's the first hit.
Judge said:
Trying to access that precise URL isn't working. Yet I got this one.

Is this a completely different or altered article? Just wondering.

www.goodtherapy.org

Before You Blow Up Your ASD/Neurotypical Marriage, Read This - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog

When one partner is on the autism spectrum and the other neurotypical, both can feel alone—even in marriage. Before anyone bails, consider these three things.
www.goodtherapy.org www.goodtherapy.org
Click to expand...
 
Can't stop thinking about this today.

One of the themes of both the article and the comments is parental alienation of the neurotypical parent, with the finger pointing directly at the way the ASD man treats the NT parent.

I had never heard this, and it didn't make much sense at all to me.

But after thinking about it, here's what does make sense. I have a daughter who I believe may be on the spectrum. We are super tight. I love all my kids, but she has always been very clingy with me and we spend lots of time together.

Now, as she enters into adolescence, she is having more conflicts with her mom... and even before reading this article, I had wondered if/when she might ask to live with me full time rather than shared parenting with her mom... and even though I never speak ill of her mom, I'm sure I will be blamed somehow if that happens.

The article is missing the obvious and I probably don't need to spell it out here. The NT wife wasn't able to make the connection she wanted with the ASD husband that she always dreamed of... now she has ASD kid(s). Guess what's going to happen?
 
I actually started laughing a few paragraphs in and then stopped reading. I bet the author wished she could have inserted some heartbreaking violin music to be played while we read. Does she end the article by concluding that ASD men should all be sent to Auschwitz?
 
Ah, I think who wrote this is the same person who wrote the heartlessaspergers website that got taken down. She's really trying to tell the world how awful autistic people are. We shouldn't let things like this be out there on the internet, especially in this day and age where most minority groups are protected and anything biased against them is only found on the dark web. Why aren't autistic people a protected group yet??
 
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