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If aspies don't need reassurance...

NiceCupOfTea

Active Member
...unlike those insufferably clingy and neurotic NTs (Note: I'm being ironic), then why are aspie forums so focused around reassuring other aspies?

I hate the implicit superior tone on forums like these. For all the cuddliness, there is a them-and-us
mentality which doesn't sit well with me. You can't have one rule for NTs and another rule for yourselves. If you can be coldly critical of NTs, then learn to accept cold criticism of yourself.
 
You can't have one rule for NTs and another rule for yourselves. If you can be coldly critical of NTs, then learn to accept cold criticism of yourself.
True, true, true.

I hate the implicit superior tone on forums like these. For all the cuddliness, there is a them-and-us
mentality which doesn't sit well with me.
There is less of this on Aspies Central than on other forums I have been to in the past. Yes, elements of this can spring up from time to time-after all, it's a recurring thing with human beings in general to have a coldly superior separation of "them" and "us"-but examples of this mindset are not too common on this forum, all things considered.
I've seen less Aspie-supremacism here than in some other Aspie groups among which I have mingled.

What I see more of, is Aspies asking "Is such-and-such a typical NT behavior?" But this question is usually asked in a tone of puzzlement and curiosity, not of superiority. I also find member expressing their dislike at participating in certain NT methods of socializing. But that isn't necessarily NT bashing either-it's stating a personal preference, a personality difference (although one does have to be careful when writing on such subjects).
 
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Thanks, Ste11aeres, for at least considering what I said and not insta-deleting it. That was got me wound up in the first place: a (what I considered to be) mild post of mine being deleted. Felt like I was being punished for not being reassuring! For a start, I only reassure people if I really do feel for them. And even then, I'll express it awkwardly and stiltedly (but sincerely). I'm not here to provide reassurance just because you are an aspie or whatever. I'm here to talk about my experiences, proffer my opinions, and hopefully learn some new stuff.

The funny thing is I do have some stuff I'd like to get off my chest, but am reluctant to do so, because I'm not convinced anybody could really help or even understand me. I don't know if I'd be seeking reassurance or not - more likely I just want a magical solution to insoluble problems.
 
If aspies forums don't reassure other aspies (or the users on this forum, towards other users), then what exactly is this forum for?

I can relate to your observation in a way, but it seems like a fairly logical result that if you clump a certain group together, they try to stick together one way or another; which also means it's this tight knit, cuddly, us-vs-them atmosphere, this, and other aspie forums bring. And judging from some other aspie forums, this might be a bit more friendly as plenty offer harsh criticism towards non-autistic people up to where I've read claims about extreme aspie supremacy. I guess it's a bit of a better of two evils deal here.

In fact, reassuring someone on the spectrum is one of the few things I've experienced, even outsid of forums. Even therapists do this, and so this notion of reassurement might be an inherent part of what I like to call "autism-culture".

What's perhaps important to note, is that a lot of the topics that ask for reassurance are often started by new people, rarely by seasoned "veterans" of this board. It seems to be one of the things people want to know and want to understand their place in the world and society as soon as they reach out. It would also explain why you see this kind of behaviour, not just on this forum, but on many other autism forums.

I can see your reasoning where you say that If you can be coldly critical of NTs, then learn to accept cold criticism of yourself. It's something I can agree with, but holding yourself in a critical light is something a lot of people learn over time. And looking at a demographic which often is being considered self-centered, you're expecting something that's just not part of the perspective of some. Can it change? Yeah... over time.

Perhaps you're treating posts on this forum a bit biased? With the assumption that everyone has a somewhat similar background? The motivations for people to be here, and to ask what they do, to share experience like they do, are no different than, presumably, the motivation that brings you here. To understand oneself and each other, with our without the inclusion of non-autistic folks as they go along.

I'll leave it at this and hope it offers a bit of insight, rather than being considered an attack of sorts.
 
I think there's a significant distinction between "reassurance" (e.g., "You're awesome, no matter what, and everything will be fine.") and "validation" (e.g., "Your perspective on this matters. It makes sense, considering the circumstances you're working with. Now maybe consider this other perspective as well?").

For me personally...and trying to avoid reading into anyone else's views on this...I personally prefer validation paired with additional insight, rather than empty consolations and affirmations that are designed simply to try and "make" me feel better.

Constructive criticism is a necessary part of that. Condemnation, however, is different than constructive criticism. Condemnation is coated with the message, "You're stupid" or "You're crazy" or "Your perspective doesn't matter." But constructive criticism is steeped in mutual respect: "Here's something you might not have considered yet" or "Here's an area that needs improvement."
 
Nobody has really answered my question. I'm not against aspies seeking reassurance. I am against aspies making snide comments about "clingy" or "emotional" NTs as they do so.

Edit: I dunno. I really really really really don't understand the online aspie community at all. You folks baffle me as much as NTs do. I'm not only from the 'wrong planet', I actually have a planet all to myself. Either I'm incredibly unique or incredibly solipsistic.
 
Nobody has really answered my question. I'm not against aspies seeking reassurance. I am against aspies making snide comments about "clingy" or "emotional" NTs as they do so.
If you are upset about specific members doing that, why don't you private message them about it?
We are against NT bashing here, and the Forum rules explicitly forbid NT bashing. I'm not sure what kind of replies your hoping for in this thread, or what exactly it is you are trying to accomplish.
 
If you are upset about specific members doing that, why don't you private message them about it?
We are against NT bashing here, and the Forum rules explicitly forbid NT bashing. I'm not sure what kind of replies your hoping for in this thread, or what exactly it is you are trying to accomplish.

Dunno. I'm not much of one for PMing people and never have been.

And I only made this thread 'cos my post was deleted and I was banned from posting in said thread.
 
Nobody has really answered my question. I'm not against aspies seeking reassurance. I am against aspies making snide comments about "clingy" or "emotional" NTs as they do so.

Edit: I dunno. I really really really really don't understand the online aspie community at all. You folks baffle me as much as NTs do. I'm not only from the 'wrong planet', I actually have a planet all to myself. Either I'm incredibly unique or incredibly solipsistic.

Regarding the snide comments: I interpret those as an expression of frustration of living in an NT world. Given that plenty of organizations aimed at helping people with autism are still mainly involved in helping people surrounding those with autism, I understand that frustration. People need to vent somehow, even if it isn't always 'just' or if they do it themselves afterwards. I definitely was a bit more like that at the start of my own journey in this whole thing, but I can see your point. I suppose it's just a human thing to easily find fault within the others, and stay blind towards the faults within our own groups or communities. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the critique I've thrown at people during my life can very easily be thrown right back at me. It always reminds me of that 'Those people are so negative; I hate them' -line. I don't say that myself (usually it's said about me), but it has an inherent irony that may serve as an illustration here. Anyway, people will always complain about other people, aspie or not. Some of it will be justified, some of it won't. Better to just accept it in a way, or learn to look past.

When it comes to the 'planet of your own', I think I can relate to that. The notion has been floating around my mind a lot lately. Back in NT society I'd always be the odd one out, being on my own, mostly because I just wouldn't be able to find a connection, to find a notion of familiarity. When it comes to those, I do a lot better in the aspie community; at least I can understand stuff, I CAN relate to things. I don't have to feel all alone with my experiences. But still, it's not like because of that making friends or communication becomes an easy thing to do, even if I would like to. And at the same time, there's this thing I do where, as soon as groups are formed and pack mentality comes to the surface, I distance myself and go and sit in my own little corner and just watch it all, for whatever reason. It's a major fault in ways (it doesn't help me), but it is what it is. Yeah, dunno too...
 
In which threads have people been saying that aspies don't need reassurance, or being coldly critical of NTs? In the threads I have seen regarding NTs need for reassurance it has been more like "I don't understand this, I don't see how empty reassurance would help" and "I would not want empty reassurance in this situation". It's generally about not understanding and expressing personal preferences, not about aspie vs NT in a superior or insulting way. I would like to try to answer the original question but I would like to read some of the threads you are talking about first for context.
 
Okay. Not everyone who has been responding to this thread knows what is going on.
This was sparked when I deleted a post by NiceCupOfTea and banned her from the thread in which it was posted. Since non-staff members can't read deleted posts, this leaves many people in the dark about what has happened.

NiceCupOfTea , if you have an issue with my actions, please message me privately and we can discuss things rationally. No more of this "I'm not much of one for PM-ing people and never have been" nonsense. PM-ing people or not PM-ing people isn't a question of personal self-identity.

The reason I deleted your post was that you were making nasty remarks about another member. You didn't even give an explanation of what specifically the problem was (you could have done so), you didn't actually argue about what that member said (you could have done so), you were actually really really vague on what exactly you were trying to imply (were you implying that they were making up fictional stories/lying? I don't know what you were saying. How about less vagueness next time?)

It was one single post deleted. It didn't have to be a big deal. You could have private messaged me to discuss it.

I'm sorry everyone has to be subjected to this kind of drama.
 
Nobody has really answered my question.

I tried to address your original question, which was:

why are aspie forums so focused around reassuring other aspies?

And my response was that there's a difference between blind reassurance (which I don't think we do here so much) and validation (which I think is much more helpful and is a big part of AC).

In my personal experience, this aspie forum (the only one I currently participate in) focuses more on validation in general, although there are some posters who throw out the blind reassurances without really knowing the person they're talking about. I think those comments are kind of useless, but so long as it's not harmful, seems like it's better just to let it be and not make a fuss over it. Those things certainly aren't against any rules, and are meant to be helpful, not hurtful.

I am against aspies making snide comments about "clingy" or "emotional" NTs as they do so.

However, this was one of your comments, not a question, and so I didn't respond to it. Although I do think other posters responded to it pretty well (like King_Oni).

So, may I make a comment about your posts in general? What I hear from you, over the past few weeks of your posting here, is someone who genuinely wants to connect and is looking for similarly-minded people. And yet it sounds like you've been hurt and ostracized so many times in the past, that you tend to jump to the conclusion that you're being ignored, attacked, or deeply misinterpreted on a pretty regular basis.

To offer a little validation ( :) )...it makes sense to me that you would interpret people's posts that way when that's the bulk of your past experience. However, other than an occasional exception from a volatile member or two (most of these types don't stick around long anyway), I haven't noticed any of the regular members here truly attacking you at all. Honestly, I've been a little baffled at some of the things you said were hurtful/confusing/offensive to you. I understand how it's easy to be hurt again when you haven't yet healed from previous experiences. But I'd like to suggest that perhaps you'll experience this board and the regular members here much differently if you can try to interpret things that are said in the best possible light rather than the worst.

This isn't to say that your perceptions don't matter, because they do. The way you react to people says a lot about what's going on with you and the ways in which you're struggling and hurting. But especially in online forums, where you can't see body language or facial expressions or hear tones of voices (which I realize is difficult for most of us anyway, but even more so when we get none of that information to work with), most of the time our interpretations of people's posts say a lot more about us than they do about the people writing the posts. It's very, very easy to project our own issues onto others in these situations (and that is true about all of us here, not just you).

This board has been a sanctuary for many aspies, and I've seen many NTs welcomed into discussions here as well, over the past year+ that I've been here. That doesn't mean I haven't gotten my feelings hurt a few times--I have. But that's the nature of relationships. We're real people, with real flaws, and real needs that very often aren't getting met in our real lives. Nearly everyone here comes to the board with deep wounds, longing to find others who "get" what life is like for us. That doesn't mean NTs don't also have problems and needs and wounds--they most certainly do. But their experience of life tends to be very different than ours, and it's a breath of fresh air to have found a group of people where I can say, "Loneliness sucks...big time," and they immediately get what I'm talking about on a very familiar level in a way that non-aspies just can't understand.

At the same time, NTs struggling with cancer, for example, have very real needs that I don't get at all. NTs struggling as single parents, NTs living in deep poverty, NTs recovering from strokes, NTs trying to quit smoking...I don't belong to any of those groups so I don't "get" their struggles, but those problems are very real, and the people facing them are worthy of my respect and compassion. I hope they each have boards similar to this one where they can go and make a simple comment, and be surrounded by others who immediately understand their experiences.

This board happens to be focused on aspie issues. I'm a member of another board that is focused on PTSD-related issues, and there are many of those issues that most of you here wouldn't have a clue what I'm talking about (although, sadly, I realize there are many here who would). I spent several years on a pregnancy/parenting board for parents of young kids. Members there had a lot of the same issues as I did at that time (like how to get enough sleep at night), but I've since left the board because I just don't need that kind of support right now. That doesn't make me "less-than" because I'm no longer a member of the board. Although...there are posters on nearly every group-support type of board that have an "us vs. them" mentality. I just choose to ignore those types of people. It's a problem with them, not with the people they're reacting to.

So anyway, all of that to say, I hope you can find your niche here. I understand what you're saying about wanting to get stuff off your chest. And some of that process means finding a way to express those thoughts that aren't easily interpretable as being divisive. I get that dilemma, really, I do. I hope this post doesn't come across in a way that is hurtful to you at all. I greatly respect the fact that, as you've said, reassurance and constant over-comforting is not particularly helpful. So I hope you can hear my heart in this...that I'm trying to reach out to you in a way that perhaps can be helpful to you, not to put you down, but to encourage you to maybe try and see this from a different perspective. I think you bring a lot of great insights. But those insights might be more helpful if you can find ways to manage your own reactivity a bit more.

I really hope this comes across in the way I mean for it to...in a friendly, supportive way. You seem like an intelligent, insightful person, and I truly hope you stick around. :)
 
Thanks, Ste11aeres, for at least considering what I said and not insta-deleting it. That was got me wound up in the first place: a (what I considered to be) mild post of mine being deleted. Felt like I was being punished for not being reassuring! For a start, I only reassure people if I really do feel for them. And even then, I'll express it awkwardly and stiltedly (but sincerely). I'm not here to provide reassurance just because you are an aspie or whatever. I'm here to talk about my experiences, proffer my opinions, and hopefully learn some new stuff.

The funny thing is I do have some stuff I'd like to get off my chest, but am reluctant to do so, because I'm not convinced anybody could really help or even understand me. I don't know if I'd be seeking reassurance or not - more likely I just want a magical solution to insoluble problems.
I just randomly read through this thread and I'd like to point out that this last paragraph kind of comes of as... Superior. Maybe it's just me but you talked about aspie superiority, I wondered if you were aware of how what you wrote could come across as? Most people on this site have asperges, so it's reasonable to assume they might be able to offer you solutions. Just saying.
 
My opinion on what you said is that I understand everybody needs reassurance in their way. Maybe you hug someone who hasn't been hugged in 20 years or more, and it feels like the happiest thing in the world for him. On the other hand, hugging someone in other situations may produce different outputs / results.

Personally, I do not need reassurance, what I need is people who have the same thought process as me, it soothes me to know that you guys are here, and it's interesting to hear more people's opinions about anything, that's why the forums are a great idea
 

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