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I need some advice...

foliodoe

I'm living my whole life at once.
I've been posting here about a person that I've been talking to for about a month, maybe a little more. She's the same age as me (34) and we get along well. I really like this person. I feel like this is someone I could fall in love with. Honestly, it feels like time is being wasted right now. Why is courtship such a long and arduous process? Why can't I just say, "Let's be in love starting now and see what happens," but instead I have to pretend to be cooler and more calm about the whole thing than I really am. Am I immature? Am I crazy?

Anyway, at the beginning of the week we shared videos of each other singing. It was a lot of fun! Talking about them together was a lot of fun too. But that was a few days ago. Since then, things have kind of cooled off and it's making me really sad, really insecure too. It makes me feel like I did something wrong or like she's not as interested as she was. But I can't say that. If I say that, I know it will put her off for good and make her uncomfortable.

If I don't initiate a conversation with her, we probably won't have a conversation that day. I'm trying to brainstorm a new creative project we could do, so we have more to talk about. But it's so much work! And it feels like I'm putting in all this effort just to get someone to notice me or like me back. It ALWAYS feels this way. Unless I'm being pursued by someone I have absolutely no interest in.

I'm at a loss. I was feeling so optimistic, so happy and excited at the start of the week. Now I feel worthless, foolish, and lonely. I just want to love and be loved. I want intimacy, trust, loyalty, affection, etc. I want someone to make an investment in me. It feels like I can't get anyone I like to care about me the way I want them to, the way I care about them. I don't know how to make people excited about me. I'm not giving up, but it's difficult finding the energy every day to keep pushing forward. I'm starting to feel like I'm resenting this person for making things so difficult. But that's putting me in an awful mood and making me avoidant. I don't know what to do.

Any insight? Thanks for reading.
 
Is she also autistic? It could just be needing some quiet time after an exciting event.
 
Is she also autistic? It could just be needing some quiet time after an exciting event.
She has ADHD, but I suspect she may be on the spectrum too. There are some days when she's in a "mood," and just doesn't want to talk. I'm the same way sometimes, so I understand. I like her so much, though! So I want to talk to her all the time.

She's told me explicitly that she doesn't need to talk to someone every single day to keep them in mind, so I'm making an effort to be more mature and patient in this growing relationship. All we've talked about is being friends, but we met on a dating forum, so it would stand to reason that she's open to a more significant relationship at some point. I just hate that it wouldn't be appropriate to talk to her directly about these things. I don't understand why courtship has to be so hard. I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone, sexless, misunderstood, regretful, etc.
 
Have you talked simply a n d clearly about your feelings towards her. Sometimes you have to take that leap. People who have read my posts about my initial interactions with my future spouse have gotten an earfull. Suffice it to say that because of a constrained yet intense time together and my recognizing that she was the one for me, I went out of my comfort zone and professed my love for her. My mind panicked, but acting kindly and patiently she assented and let me know that we will be more than mere friends. @foliodoe , you will not know until you ask. You do not need that to be an arduous process, especially when she behaves in a manner that indicates she enjoys things with you. There is only one way you will know about mutual feelings so you need to stop doubting and overthinking and just ask her, or better yet, clearly state your feelings towards her. Honestly, it is better for you to know now and have things settled. I hope her answer is affirmative and you will be writing to us from cloud 9.
 
It's been a while for me in terms of "courtship" and what that means now-a-days. I am not sure if ALL relationships start out all "hot and heavy", full of excitement, etc. It sure is exciting if it happens, and while it lasts, but I am thinking you want something more "mature" and "long lasting" if you catch my meaning. One or both you might be seeking a "life partnership", where it is about "us" meeting life head on. You've got her back, she's got yours. You support each other, complement each other, 1 + 1 = 3, and so on.

Obviously, there needs to be some discussion about HOW to communicate with each other. The other part is that, perhaps, neither one of you are comfortable talking about feelings. My wife and I are not that's for sure, but we do know how to communicate. There is often this weird double standard with men and women when it comes to sharing our feelings, as women tend to be more open with sharing them, and as men, we find ourselves giving hugs, kisses, and emotional support. Whereas, if a man shares his feelings, the woman has a tendency to get upset, and then we have to console her, and we are not given any support in return. So, it's a really weird dynamic that often leaves men NOT wanting to share their feelings.

I know how difficult it is to articulate difficult topics, especially if the other person interprets it wrong and goes into defense mode, there's interruptions, there's emotions, etc. At that point, you're done. I've written my wife many letters over the years, because it's the only way I can articulate my thoughts in any sort of meaningful way, and NOT get interrupted or distracted with emotions.

Something to think about.
 
Hello, I wonder if you both would consider another creative way to get to know each other more besides just singing and more typical back and forth replies to each other. I mean, since she has ADHD she likely has a creative side so perhaps she may like writing her thoughts and feelings too about interesting topics, not only to learn more about herself but you.

Below are two !inks where you can get to know each other more by answering various interesting prompt questions, without feeling too much pressure to be perfect there as there are so many questions where you will get to know the other and to have chances to reveal each of your strengths and thoughts and feelings about so many issues.

I mean for things you differ on, for many of those questions that could be seen as complementary traits, for a friend or potential relationship partner, as not always do we want someone the same as us but often much different, to cause more interest or to fulfill our other needs. And for some of those questions you agree on or have similarities, of course that can create more of a connection this way as well.

Such writing exercises may seem tedious for some, but you can learn about important or interesting things or details quicker if you do such exercises somewhat regularly, as opposed to talking regular chit chat stuff, repetitive stuff, general stuff or dragging things out too long, which can be boring or draining after time for many, especially if one side is doing most of the initiating and expressing

In this case, if both are receptive to such, by doing such below type of exercises to show the other you both are participating and wanting to do something creative with each other or to !earn more, you each can express your answers in your own ways and learn equally something about the other. You can choose to answer the same questions(s) at the same approximate time, or choose the questions you each like best to answer first. Or be random about picking the questions, or do things in some order,whatever you choose.

Then discussions can be based on some of your answers. Topics for conversations can seem endless then.

The below two links thus are just an idea for you to consider there.


650 Prompts for Narrative and Personal Writing

365 Days of Writing Prompts
 
Have you talked simply a n d clearly about your feelings towards her. Sometimes you have to take that leap. People who have read my posts about my initial interactions with my future spouse have gotten an earfull. Suffice it to say that because of a constrained yet intense time together and my recognizing that she was the one for me, I went out of my comfort zone and professed my love for her. My mind panicked, but acting kindly and patiently she assented and let me know that we will be more than mere friends. @foliodoe , you will not know until you ask. You do not need that to be an arduous process, especially when she behaves in a manner that indicates she enjoys things with you. There is only one way you will know about mutual feelings so you need to stop doubting and overthinking and just ask her, or better yet, clearly state your feelings towards her. Honestly, it is better for you to know now and have things settled. I hope her answer is affirmative and you will be writing to us from cloud 9.
I feel like it's too soon to have that kind of talk. It seems like it would be more appropriate to wait until we meet offline, right? We're planning to do that in a couple months after she moves. At which point I think we'll probably both be more open to having conversations about moving forward, having a future together, etc. Thanks for your feedback!
 
I've been posting here about a person that I've been talking to for about a month, maybe a little more. She's the same age as me (34) and we get along well. I really like this person. I feel like this is someone I could fall in love with. Honestly, it feels like time is being wasted right now. Why is courtship such a long and arduous process? Why can't I just say, "Let's be in love starting now and see what happens," but instead I have to pretend to be cooler and more calm about the whole thing than I really am. Am I immature? Am I crazy?

Man, your experience here (and below) matches mine so much. I've always felt this way, and it's just torture. Of course, most of my life I had know idea about ASD, or why I viewed love so differently. I wish I could give you good advice, but I wanted to say I totally relate.

Anyway, at the beginning of the week we shared videos of each other singing. It was a lot of fun! Talking about them together was a lot of fun too. But that was a few days ago. Since then, things have kind of cooled off and it's making me really sad, really insecure too. It makes me feel like I did something wrong or like she's not as interested as she was. But I can't say that. If I say that, I know it will put her off for good and make her uncomfortable.

After going through some really bad relationships, I think going slow can be good. Though it is tough. Does the slowness bother you, or is it more that you don't know where you stand with her? Gerald makes a good point about stating your feelings. You may have to gently let her know how you feel, and let her know you're not asking for anything but have difficulty not knowing how she feels. And that requires a risk of her running away, but if she does that then maybe he's not the best girlfriend. Because you want someone who can talk openly and deal with vulnerability. (I've found women can have a much harder time with this than society would like us to believe.)

Looking back, I'd say that I never needed to go fast into a relationship, but that the uncertainty is what bothered me.

If I don't initiate a conversation with her, we probably won't have a conversation that day. I'm trying to brainstorm a new creative project we could do, so we have more to talk about. But it's so much work! And it feels like I'm putting in all this effort just to get someone to notice me or like me back. It ALWAYS feels this way. Unless I'm being pursued by someone I have absolutely no interest in.

That's definitely my experience, too. In my case, maybe they were just mildly interested, but it's still frustrating. And not to get on a tangent, but it's really frustrating that as men we get no credit for this. You can talk, be open, plan, and be thoughtful--but, in the end, society says all you think about, and all you want, is sex. It makes dating a very empty experience, for me at least. I get tired of being treated like a robot, or sub-human.


I'm at a loss. I was feeling so optimistic, so happy and excited at the start of the week. Now I feel worthless, foolish, and lonely.

I know this experience so well. I'm sorry you find yourself in this state. It's horrible.

I want someone to make an investment in me. It feels like I can't get anyone I like to care about me the way I want them to, the way I care about them.

Totally. I've been told by so many women that I have no feelings because I'm a man. Or nothing bothers me. Yet, it's me who asks about them and listens to what they say. I try to avoid relationships now and remember all the bad things, but it's not easy. And connection is a natural want. So I know my way isn't a solution, but what can you do?

If you do open up to this woman, I hope it goes well. If it were me, that's what I would do. The confusion is frustrating and at my age, after years of that and childish girlfriends, I'd rather take a leap than torture myself. I may be very disappointed with the results, but I'll be happy I spoke up. If I realize this person isn't into me or is less mature than I thought, it can be easier to detach. Otherwise, I might keep pining for an idealized version of them, filling in the gaps of their silence.

Good luck with whatever you do, foliodoe :)
 
Does the slowness bother you, or is it more that you don't know where you stand with her?
The pace wouldn't bother me at all, if I knew where it was going. If I knew where she wanted it to go. I'd be happy to remain friends. I enjoy my friendships a great deal and take them very seriously. But if that's the case, I want to start making romantic investments in other people sooner than later. Life is short and there are only so many opportunities to connect with people. But she's said explicitly that she wants to be friends with a person before anything else. So I'm going at her pace out of respect and understanding. I'm not in a rush, I just want to know where we're going.

Otherwise, I might keep pining for an idealized version of them, filling in the gaps of their silence.
This one is difficult for me. She'll tell me I'm cool or she's excited to hang out with me, and I'll interpret that in the most optimistic way possible. And the same goes for negative things. She'll say she's an independent person or that she's stressed out and assume that means there's no chance for romance to blossom between us. I know this is an all-or-nothing view of things, but the middle-ground feels more like stagnation to me!

A lot of what you wrote resonated with me, so at least I know I'm not alone here. I hate that I might get lumped in with "incels" just because I struggle with courtship so much. I was in multiple long-term relationships for over a decade in total, so it's not like I'm clueless in love. It's just never been right for me, never quite been what I was looking for. It feels like things only get more difficult once I start to more actively seek what I want from another person.

But, on the other hand, in the last year there have been a few people courting me and I rebuffed their advances. That's just how life goes. The magic happens one one's interest is matched by another. I'm just impatient, maybe. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
I feel like it's too soon to have that kind of talk. It seems like it would be more appropriate to wait until we meet offline, right? We're planning to do that in a couple months after she moves. At which point I think we'll probably both be more open to having conversations about moving forward, having a future together, etc. Thanks for your feedback!
Nothing you can do about the pace really except if it's been "too long", then you can escalate things. With guy-guy, things can go quicker and guys like to "get to the point" more than females generally speaking.

I think one month is long enough to try to meet in-person if you two are local. Choose a public place. If you guys are distant, then I suggest keeping your options open. It ain't anything beyond an online connection if you and her can't meet. Keep that in mind too.
 
but, in the end, society says all you think about, and all you want, is sex. It makes dating a very empty experience, for me at least. I get tired of being treated like a robot, or sub-human.
As you probably know, even as I moved into dating, I did not know I was on the spectrum. I was never very good about societal messages, rejecting the fierce brainwashing about gender roles so prevalent in the 1950s. Consequently and because of isolation I was absolutely inexperienced with girls/women. I thought of dating as a tryout for an enduring friendship. That had its problems and rewards. Of course as I progressed in my first relationship, I enjoyed our PG exploration of sexuality, but remained quite naive. With my future spouse, being friends first allowed me to be vulnerable to her well beyond my comfort zone so that when we finally had sex it was delightful and very impactful for me. Desiring a connection first, according to you, is counter to society's messaging and I am happy that I went my own way.
 
Nothing you can do about the pace really except if it's been "too long", then you can escalate things. With guy-guy, things can go quicker and guys like to "get to the point" more than females generally speaking.

I think one month is long enough to try to meet in-person if you two are local. Choose a public place. If you guys are distant, then I suggest keeping your options open. It ain't anything beyond an online connection if you and her can't meet. Keep that in mind too.
She's moving in the next month, so she's said she won't be ready to meet in person until around May. I'm cool with that, but she also doesn't like small talk. And she's also too busy to do any of the ideas I've suggested for creative, collaborative projects we can do to get to know each other better. Honestly I'm starting to get bored as the magic fades. The momentum we were building just isn't going anywhere and I'm not sure why. Every time I try to move things forward, she pulls back. That's life, I guess. I still don't know what it all means or what's going to happen, but I'm beginning to cool off on the whole thing.
 
It sounds like the planned move is a higher priority for her right now - which is not at all uncommon since moving is one of life's major stressful events, and as it approaches it could be overloading.

You might ask if you can help her with any of the things she's busy with in the meantime, but otherwise it's far better to cool off on a relationship before it happens rather than after.

Friendships however, don't have a particular time frame, and this makes it seem like you've been rather more interested in it than she has been. Don't trust the sense of momentum though, because these things are rather more like tides that can ebb and flow a lot.
 
It sounds like the planned move is a higher priority for her right now - which is not at all uncommon since moving is one of life's major stressful events, and as it approaches it could be overloading.

You might ask if you can help her with any of the things she's busy with in the meantime, but otherwise it's far better to cool off on a relationship before it happens rather than after.

Friendships however, don't have a particular time frame, and this makes it seem like you've been rather more interested in it than she has been. Don't trust the sense of momentum though, because these things are rather more like tides that can ebb and flow a lot.
I've offered her help repeatedly, told her I'd even drive out to her to help her move and she's been firm on not doing anything like that with me. I'm not going to tell her off or do anything dramatic, but I'm going to trust my instincts and just take a step back before I get myself hurt.

Thanks to everyone for all the support!
 
I've offered her help repeatedly, told her I'd even drive out to her to help her move and she's been firm on not doing anything like that with me. I'm not going to tell her off or do anything dramatic, but I'm going to trust my instincts and just take a step back before I get myself hurt.

Thanks to everyone for all the support!
Sounds like a good call under the circumstances.
 
I would agree with @Judge in that case - it isn't that this couldn't work out, but sounds increasingly unlikely. I know that if I was offered help moving, I'd take it because a helping hand is hard to find. As @Outdated said rather eloquently, her loss!
 
She's moving in the next month, so she's said she won't be ready to meet in person until around May. I'm cool with that, but she also doesn't like small talk. And she's also too busy to do any of the ideas I've suggested for creative, collaborative projects we can do to get to know each other better. Honestly I'm starting to get bored as the magic fades. The momentum we were building just isn't going anywhere and I'm not sure why. Every time I try to move things forward, she pulls back. That's life, I guess. I still don't know what it all means or what's going to happen, but I'm beginning to cool off on the whole thing.
She might be too socially anxious. Moving is an excuse, especially since you offered. Sure, she can make time to meet for coffee first and see how it goes. You can still keep in contact with her, but as they say, don't keep all your eggs in one basket. It means nothing more than an online connection until you meet in-person. It's better to meet in a public place first. So that may've frightened her for you to ask her to move which means you, a "stranger", going to her place the first time around. It sounds like this has dragged on awhile. Maybe if there's a game you like that could use other players, you could ask her to play it with you.
I think in May, if you haven't found someone else, maybe ask her to come to you to meet in-person since you've already made so much effort. Also, keep it at a public place. Don't mention personal places anymore unless you're actually meeting in-person at the moment now- in the flesh- or unless she brings it up at this point.
 

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